What isolation feet under your amp with great result?
For fun, I just ordered some springs yesterday. I tried to go with something shallow enough so my amps wouldn't look weird and something wide enough for stability. Regarding the spring constant, I ordered springs where the total weight per spring would be just a touch over one-half the spring's maximum capacity. |
three easy payments, I believe that ebm is describing to use the Critical Mass Center Stage as footers under the amp and, thus, between the amp and the Ultra Stealth platform. That is the same method that I had described in the page 1 of this thread except I use the same brand (Symposium Acoustics) Rollerblock Jr + footers. They are less expensive than the Center Stage footers and, IMO, provide excellent vibration drainage from the amp and directly into the Ultra platform. You can contact Symposium Acoustics directly, speak with Peter (the owner) and he will provide excellent information and help to you. Good luck. Be safe and be healthy. |
I have tried hockey pucks before, and the footers I recommended ( also from Amazon ) are, imo, superior......in place of the feet that come with the amplifiers, not in conjunction with them. BTW, for naysayers of isolation feet, isolation can happen inside the amplifier as well. If possible, isolate the power transformer, whether it be an IEC type or Toroid, from the chassis, using a product such as cork, a layer or two of Dynamat, rubber grommets, whatever, and it changes the sound, again, imo, for the better. The HK Citation 12, 16 and 19 power amplifiers all had rubber grommets of sorts, isolating the transformers from the chassis. So many other designs did not. Tube amp designers do not do this ( power and output transformers ), as it is beneficial, with sq, ime. Doing this, cleans things up a bit, an improvement, greater than a fuse change, imo ( and I believe in fuses ). Just saying. Be well, all. |
The vulcanized rubber hockey pucks are way harder than typical rubber footers. Anyone else have a clue as to their damping abilities vs. other typical options discussed here? I would be interested in trying them under my 70-pound amplifiers, which sit on SRA platforms. The SRA guys said it doesn't matter which footers I use when using their platforms while the amp designer strongly suggested Stillpoints so the amps are currently on Stillpoint footers over SRA platforms. I have no sonic issues but it seems I could use the Stillpoints under some of my more sensitive front-end gear if their use under the amplifiers is redundent. The Machina Dynamica springs mentioned above are also interesting to me and while elegant from an engineering perspective, not so much visually. I believe these are valve springs for small engines. The trick is finding the right spring for the weight being supported. |
OP, suggest you research the following: Barry Diament Ingress Engineering Townshend Symposium Stacore Taiko Machina Dynamica For a diy solution read Barry Diament, buy Ingress cup/rollers combine with a slate or granite platform and a spring like Machina Dynamica or inner tube. Other makes are ready made solutions that work. Avoid rubber. |
Hockey pucks consist of vulcanized rubber. In the audiophile world, rubber is not generally known for being a desirable footer material. The vulcanizing process results in a rubber material with increased rigidity and durability, as well as other changes in the mechanical and electrical properties. Many here report using hockey puck footers under their gear and speakers. Therefore, does the vulcanizing process result in a rubber material that has damping and support properties which are better than those of unvulcanized rubber footers? |
@ebm SYMPOSIUM ULTRA STEALTH with copper spikes(amp stand) with CRITICAL MASS CENTER STAGE 2 1 1/2 inch feet for best sound.Get them together ASAP Nasaman!!HELLO!! I have something similar that works well - my amp sits on a Symposium Ultra platform which is supported by a Solidsteel amp stand (with spiked feet). I’d be curious of the incremental gain to be had with the Critical Mass Center Stage footers. Although for $1,000 I will likely never try it, especially as I’m pretty happy with my amp setup. But good food for thought! Honestly, people should give more thought to using platforms (including simple wooden ones) under their amps. Much better sonics to my ears than feet. |
Your sarcasm is yours not mine.... I dont pretend to any new science at all... I only sugeest and have made it myself that any creative person can, with homemade only and low cost only materials, transform his system, embedding it rightly...We dont make it with "dogmas", but with experiments and listenings experience that ANYBODY can try if he is not discouraged by some self appointed "scientist" or self appointed "debunkers" to do so... Your accusation against all attempt to increase the S. Q. except by costly upgrading electronic parts, is a lie or ignorance; i put it on the same desk than scammers... Because you teach newcomers the wrong gospel....You push them to throw their money in upgrade, negating all simple and non orthodox solutions and called that stupid " tweaks" or scams without knowing what you speak about... But a method is NOT a bunch of tweaks.... I have invented nothing at all, it is very simple to understand that any electronic component to work at his best MUST be mechanically, electrically, and acoustically embed...My only merit is i put it in words more clearer than most.... Thats all....If i was able to say it clearly it is also because i create it for myself..... You are like the scammers you hate so much who ask big money for ready made solutions (but the majority of audio business is not scam even if sometimes price is too high ) you propose to all no solutions, except changing their electronic parts to better one at great expanse... Myself i only want to explain what is clear: dont upgrade anything before embedding it rightfully... Being an audiophile is not only buying tweaks or upgrading, it is mostly creative listening.... |
Would one of you care to stretch one out by explaining just how isolation feet in a solid state amp does anything but part you from your money?Another assumption that has nothing to do with the vibrations/resonance problem which is a purely mechanical question... Which parting of money? Is someone who understand this problem, and want to solve it, must do it by paying necessarily an unwanted sum of money? I have did it myself for peanuts, not perfectly, but relatively very well, if i judge by listening audible results... If someone has money he can try to solve it at a more perfect level paying the price for sure he can or estimated necessary... Then mixing mechanical problem, with possible scamming, with righteous business, stirring this pot, and provocatively accusing all people of being "victims " and being then stupid, or even worst "audiophiles", and honest designers to be possibly scammers, is more than any customer of this thread can ask for... It is a bit too much to chew for one mouth sorry....Sometimes we must stop spitting.... |
@mahlman Right now both of my legs are the same length.As a suspected "naysayer" I am compelled to challenge your assertion and ask whether you have measurements to substantiate your claim? Have you opened this belief up to study and confirmation by independent observers? Did you pay a significant upcharge for a pair of perfectly matched legs and would it really affect performance if one leg was say, 1/8th inch shorter or longer? I owe it to this forum to protect unsuspecting readers from being deceived by those making unsubstantiated claims of perfectly matched legs. |
Right now both of my legs are the same length. Would one of you care to stretch one out by explaining just how isolation feet in a solid state amp does anything but part you from your money? The number of products seeking to answer problems that are not there and those willing to buy are a source of never ending amazement to me. |
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Before isolating the amplifier from the vibrations coming off the speakers... isolate the speakers vibrating, your source, your floor, your walls, your rack/stand holding all of your equipment. Saying that, getting the energy into (springs for example) will require some planning, especially if your system is sitting on a substrate, being the materials under your floor, which may be somewhat absorbent already. Concrete is ideal as its rather unyielding compared to peer an beam, wooden floors. However mass loading under wood can drive a higher percentage of energy into an isolation system. Townshend of UK and Solid Tech of Sweden are two good sources for products and information as to why I am suggesting the speaker isolation before electronics for return on investment. |
@t_ramey EL84's...Nice amp. I am looking for more detail and realism from my preamp. It's a choke point in my system, all other components have been successfully treated with footers and platforms. The limiting factor with the pre is I only have room for 1" footers due to shelf space, so I'm going to give the EVP's a try. Many thanks. |
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All footers have a sound, and different, dependent on under chassis placement. ***********Google = DRBMP-BLK-01 .......on Amazon....self adhesive rubber door stopper bumpers, 4 pack, designed to stop door knob, from damaging wall. I have used these for years, on all of my electronics. I find them to be Neutral, in SQ......Can use 3 or more under the gear, depending on weight of actual piece of gear ( in place of what feet comes with the equipment ). I have tried expensive footers, including sorbothane, metal, brass, wood, etc. and these, again, have less of their "own sound ". 3 packs will get you 12 footers, and free shipping, through Amazon, and as you might know, Amazon accepts returns with money back guarantee.....my prediction is, you will not return them. Under $10...for a pack of 4. |
Just stick with the Sobothane discs and save your money, $$$ on voodoo feet. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1312.R1.TR10.TRC2.A0.H1.XSorbothane+.TRS2&_nkw=Sorbothane+disc&_sacat=0 Sorbothane sounds like most very soft things....very soft sounding.Oh dear! if you think that, then there are a number of different densities 4 of the 70 durometer density discs will support a 250lb speaker Sorbothane sucks the life out of the musicI've heard everything now! Also can leave a residue under a hot component.Wrap them in glad-wrap, no more than blu-tak does. |
@lowrider57 I have an AudioNote el84 integrated and have tried the cheap isopucks, Daedalus DiD's, and the EVP's and so far I like the EVP's the best. They seem to bring out more detail and realism than the others. I also got the cable lifters from AV Roomservice and for the first time think that lifting cables off the floor are beneficial. Always had negative effects when I tried other methods before. I haven't given the DiD's much time so I may try them again under the AN to see if things change. The EVP's I got were the 2" HD. |
@lowrider57 the EVP’s are interesting with a powerful change in sound. I tried them under everything but as mentioned only liked them under my power filter and under an AppleTV (for some certain casual listening). They seemed to show me that a lot of gear is designed/voiced with some vibrations happening. Because with them under most of my gear, the highs freqs, presence and energy to the sound went down. I have Harbeth 40.2’s so I can’t really have anything that deadens the sound and achieve the balance I’m after. Maybe if one has a bright or overly energetic sound they would work well. They really do completely eliminate something. But of course YMMV. |
@jriggy I'd like to remove the Herbies and try the EVP's under my preamp. Did you find they were more effective on heavy components? My Audio Note is only about 20 lbs. I tried Myrtle wood blocks and there was a major improvement over Herbies, faster attack, open soundstage, but the highs became harsh. Looking for an inexpensive tweak. |
And not only that, but using only sorbothane will give less interesting results than using it in a sandwiches with other kind of materials(bamboo, granite,cork, quartz) to couple/ decouple some frequencies...It is a partial solution not a perfect one but work for me with all my gear on the same desk....No sensible vibrations at all under my fingers at any volume or frequencies sound playing.... For sure my fingers can be very crude and is not a seismometer but that gives a gross estimate of at least a minimal efficiency.... I will improve all that with springs for a better external vibrations isolation and quartz sand bed for a better controls of resonance in the near future.... But i will stick to homemade solutions with low cost materials.... I refuse to pay thousand of bucks for some device.... It is always possible in my experience to retro engineered some basic idea....It is also more rewarding and more fun... Anyway i dont have this money, except by divorcing right now.... :) |
Hi nasaman I don’t know the budget you are comfortable with or the price of your amp so it’s hard to suggest anything. If it’s in the budget, the CMS Center Stage feet are truly amazing (as I previously stated). I also forgot to mention the new Wilson Pedestals. They retail for $2225.00 for a set of three but that’s only good for equipment up to 75lbs. Since your amp weighs 82 lbs you’ll need to buy another one (good up to 25 lbs) at a cost of around $795.00 each (I think). These are “supposed” to be even better than the CMS feet. Personally I find it hard to believe that they will outperform the CMS feet but I’m keeping an open mind. My local dealer sells both so I’m going to take home a set of the Wilson feet and decide for myself. In my opinion, the only way to properly evaluate anything is to put it in your system and listen for yourself and avoid quick a/b comparisons. Trust your own ears. Good luck. Scot |
Mechanical drainage of micro vibrations makes a tremendous difference, in a positive manner, on the total sound quality. It's really amazing how much improvement a quality footer can provide. Sorbothane was popular in the 1980s and is still being used today. However, it is now considered very entry level for footers and actually is not a good solution if your looking to improve on dynamics, clarity, and tight bass. Sorbothane detracts from all of those characteristics. I use Symposium Acoustics Rollerblock Jr + (the + means the upgraded balls to tungsten carbide). They work best when used in conjunction with the proper platform. I use the Symposium Acoustics Ultra platforms. Great product, not cheap but also not the most expensive on the market. Do your research and make the choice you are most comfortable with. As long as you land on a high grade product, with proven results, you will be well rewarded. |
Aftermarket footers are system, and even more so, component cassis specific. It depends on what you need or want sonically, as many of them will shift tonality slightly one way or the other. One I don’t see mentioned much are the Daedalus Isolation Devices (DiD’s). Steel bearings sandwiched between wood surfaces in an aluminum enclosure, as well as brass utilized. The dissimilar materials is the key and bearings in this way work way better than bearings between more metal from my experience... All ya gotta do is call Lou to purchase. Highly recommended. I use a mix of DiD’s, ISOacoustic IsoPucks, EVP’s and built-in still points on my preamp. The IsoPucks (no need to pay for the higher models from what I’ve heard. They’re just for looks) work best —and very well— directly under the stock feet of my Lampizator. On my ss amp, they work best under the heat sinks rather than under the chassis portion. EVP’s only worked for me under my power conditioner/filter And one under an AppleTV for SiriusXM streaming when needed, but it sure does wok here (with a weight too). Anything else with rubber or composite rubber I have never had good luck with. Did all the tenderfoot footers, Sorbothane and so forth and always found it to slow down the bass or mess with timing somehow. |
How about LessLoss.com the "Bindbreaker vibration control equipment feet". Sound great in all aspects. Read my review on their website. Unfortunately they need careful handling and the equipment slides around easily. But well worth it, even though they are not the cheapest and not the prettiest or most expressive looking ones :) |
I have to question micro-vibration and its effect on SQ. My active speakers , Elac Navis, have the amplifiers built in and they are subject to significant vibration, as a result of sharing the same cabinet as the drivers. The power and analogue cables feeding the speaker also vibrate considerably . But SQ is fine. |
