What is an electron?
Please define.
Good luck....
Please define.
Good luck....
What is wrong with audiophiles?
Something that has happened countless times happened again last night. Ordinary people over for a party listening to some music easily hear things audiophiles argue endlessly don't even exist. Oh, its worse even than that- they not only easily hear but are stunned and amazed at what they hear. Its absolutely clearly obvious this is not anything they ever were expecting, not anything they can explain- and also is not anything they can deny. Because its so freaking obvious! Happens every time. Then I come on here and read one after another not only saying its impossible, but actually ridiculing people for the audacity of reporting on the existence of reality.
What is wrong with audiophiles?
Okay, concrete examples. Easy demos done last night. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There's four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. Removed them one by one while playing music. Then replaced them. Music playing the whole time. First one came out, instant the cable goes on the floor the guy in the sweet spot says, "OH! WTF!?!?!"
Yeah. Just one. One by one, sound stage just collapses. Put em back, image depth returns.
Another one? Okay.
Element CTS cables have Active Shielding, another easy demo. Unplug, plug back in. Only takes a few seconds. Tuning bullets. Same thing. These are all very easy to demo while the music is playing without interruption. This kills like I don' know how many birds with one stone. Auditory memory? Zero. Change happens real time. Double blind? What could be more double blind than you don't know? Because nobody, not me, not the listener, not one single person in the room, knows exactly when to expect to hear a change- or what change to expect, or even if there would be any change to hear at all. Heck, even I have never sat there while someone did this so even I did not know it was possible to hear just one, or that the change would happen not when the Cable Elevator was removed but when the cable went down on the floor.
We're talking real experience here people. No armchair theorizing. What real people really hear in real time playing real music in a real room.
I could go on. People who get the point will get the point. People who ridicule- ALWAYS without ever bothering to try and hear for themselves!- will continue to hate and argue.
What is wrong with audiophiles?
Something almost all audiophiles insist on, its like Dogma 101, you absolutely always must play the same "revealing" track over and over again. Well, I never do this. Used to. Realized pretty quickly though just how boring it is. Ask yourself, which is easier to concentrate on- something new and interesting? Or something repetitive and boring? You know the answer. Its silly even to argue. Every single person in my experience hears just fine without boring them to tears playing the same thing over and over again. Only audiophiles subject themselves to such counterproductive tedium.
What is wrong with audiophiles????
What is wrong with audiophiles?
Okay, concrete examples. Easy demos done last night. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There's four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. Removed them one by one while playing music. Then replaced them. Music playing the whole time. First one came out, instant the cable goes on the floor the guy in the sweet spot says, "OH! WTF!?!?!"
Yeah. Just one. One by one, sound stage just collapses. Put em back, image depth returns.
Another one? Okay.
Element CTS cables have Active Shielding, another easy demo. Unplug, plug back in. Only takes a few seconds. Tuning bullets. Same thing. These are all very easy to demo while the music is playing without interruption. This kills like I don' know how many birds with one stone. Auditory memory? Zero. Change happens real time. Double blind? What could be more double blind than you don't know? Because nobody, not me, not the listener, not one single person in the room, knows exactly when to expect to hear a change- or what change to expect, or even if there would be any change to hear at all. Heck, even I have never sat there while someone did this so even I did not know it was possible to hear just one, or that the change would happen not when the Cable Elevator was removed but when the cable went down on the floor.
We're talking real experience here people. No armchair theorizing. What real people really hear in real time playing real music in a real room.
I could go on. People who get the point will get the point. People who ridicule- ALWAYS without ever bothering to try and hear for themselves!- will continue to hate and argue.
What is wrong with audiophiles?
Something almost all audiophiles insist on, its like Dogma 101, you absolutely always must play the same "revealing" track over and over again. Well, I never do this. Used to. Realized pretty quickly though just how boring it is. Ask yourself, which is easier to concentrate on- something new and interesting? Or something repetitive and boring? You know the answer. Its silly even to argue. Every single person in my experience hears just fine without boring them to tears playing the same thing over and over again. Only audiophiles subject themselves to such counterproductive tedium.
What is wrong with audiophiles????
355 responses Add your response
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You might be right. All the electrons would stick to the magnets 🧲 OMG! 😬 On the other hand would opposing magnets 🧲 🧲 cancel each other out? Not to mention, electrons aren’t really the signal. I know, it’s very confusing? 😛 Furthermore, electrons have an electric charge NOT a magnetic charge. So, no, they are not affected by stationary magnets. Whew! That was a close one! 🥵 |
This forum has become tiring (ok, when was it not tiring....). I'm having considerably more fun over here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=48895.640 |
You can try to twist the words anyway you like, but it does not change the words you wrote. One time you said 4 "Cable Elevators" per side, which in your parlance is branded Cable Elevators. The other time you said, "cable elevators", "One, On one side. Out of 6", which to well, near everyone, means 6 cable elevators (generic or branded) per side, or if you want to go with 6 generic cable elevators total, go for it. Then you make up a convenient story about 6 branded Cable Elevators total, and two generic per side, even though your use of generic and branded above is well, rather clear. (p.s. Cable Elevators are sold in sets of 4 & 8 and yes I know they come in singles, but you said you bought a set). Now I could be mistaken, but I thought the ACE Cable Lifters were not released to what about 2003 maybe 2004? ... Cool, you had them in the late 90’s. Again, I will add in the convenient "engineer", and the red-wine test, that again, pretty much no wine drinker would ever think was needed ... at a white wine drinking event where people are bringing Dom Perignon. Just who are you trolling? Yourself? No worries if you do not read my posts, other people still will. Cable Elevators, little ceramic insulators, raise cables off the floor. There’s four holding each speaker cable up off the floor. The improvement from a set of cable elevators is flat-out obvious. Okay so what’s the big deal? Well being a logical kinda guy I decided to test it out. Which you can do too. Tried wood, cups, carbon fiber, anything handy to support the cables up off the floor. Every single thing worked- more air, better image, more palpable presence. Finally after a while a dealer friend got Cable Elevators in said they were the best he’d heard so I bought a set. Easily the best thing yet. |
Wow. On the scale of obtuseness you set a high bar. If you were any more dense stars would be careening down into the singularity between your ears. Okay. Last chance then afraid I'm gonna have to ban you. You can post. Just won't be read. Not enough hours in the day to teach kindergarten math to anyone this slow. You will have to just get used to standing in the hall. So like I said 6 were removed. One at a time. So, first one. On one side. Out of 6. Or one out of six if the periods are throwing you off. Which come to think of it.... are you having your period? (Now watch him reply- not comprehending I really am no longer reading him. Well of course not. Told him flat out I was trolling, missed that one too. OTR. Fo sho.) |
Okay Pinocchio, And for the slower ones in the back, you will notice in the second quote, the use of "Cable Elevators", i.e. name branded as per the ops last post, and the distinct 4 per speaker cable. Like I said the first time, one friend noticed he could hear the difference removing just one. One. On one side. Out of 6. |
Based on the op's own words: In my best Walter White: "You got me!" Or maybe if you would try half as hard to see the big picture as you do trying to find the slightest niche to argue you would understand. Read it again. There's Cable Elevators the trademarked product and there's cable elevators the generic ceramic insulators. So under my speaker cables on each side are three Cable Elevators and one generic cable elevator. So there's your four, and there's your six. The cable elevators sit real close to the amp and were left in place. Only the three Cable Elevators on each side were removed. Rather baffling how this is the one tiny detail out of everything that tipped you off to this all being one big fiction. Meanwhile the reality of being trolled on a Trumpian scale eludes you. Why, its almost enough to make me wonder if you might be related to a man named Clouseau? Oh well. Either way, still Exhibit A in the museum of What is wrong with audiophiles? |
This all started back in the 80s when Enid Lumley wrote an article in The Absolute Sound describing her Cable Tunnels which, if you can believe it I build some. Three sections of pine 2x4s, made into a tunnel, wiped down with vegetable oil with small eye 👁 hooks on the inside top 2x4 every foot or so. Then string is used to suspend the cables Inside the tunnel from the 👁 hooks. Voila’! 🤗 And yet, this sort of thing hasn’t caught on among the general public. 🤡 |
atdavid, I have no idea what is wrong with audiophiles, but if you look close enough, you may find clues. Yeah, this is one of the more ironically named threads isn't it? ;-) My cabling would give the OP nightmares. Regular old Belden speaker cable, 45 feet long, run from one room to another down floors, along ceilings, back up in to another room where it comes out and runs along a shag rug to the speakers. I actually bury the cable in the shag rug which makes for a very neat "no cables" look. Gawd knows the monsters that are traversing along my cables. And yet.... Doesn't seem to damage the sound at all. The speakers I just bought sound better in my home than in the store when they were hooked up to Nordost cables, power conditioners etc. My system sounds at least as good (better IMO) than some friend's systems who have tens of thousands of dollars worth of audiophile cables, conditioners etc. Poor me. I'm really missing out on these audiophile tweaks. |
Based on the op's own words:
When I look at those things, to me, this story just appears made up. millercarbon OP1,934 posts11-13-2019 1:24am
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thyname422 posts11-13-2019 8:19am If you subscribe to the idea that getting cables off the floor reduces BOTH static electric charge AND floor-borne vibration then wouldn’t suspending the cables and power cords from the ceiling be better than ANY cable elevator? That would be a terribly ugly looking room >>>Do you think it would look like Plan 9 from Outer Space? 🤖 You realize you can use color coordinated string, right? Do you think it would be uglier than big honking speakers taking up half the living room? Would it be uglier than your in-laws sitting there taking up half the living room? |
I have no idea what is wrong with audiophiles, but if you look close enough, you may find clues. millercarbon OP1,934 posts11-13-2019 1:24am
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Hello boxer12, I like your user name. I don't recall you ever judging me but it's really no big deal, people have been judging me my whole life and I'm usually convicted of something. Now that we're opening up and civilly communicating with each other, I'm starting to feel closer to you, too. How about meeting for a couple drinks and then see if you measure up to your user name? Let me know, Tim |
dent dog has a request: Could we go back to cable elevators for a minute. Never tried any but with my relatively recent experience with power cords and interconnects being positive I might be interested. Especially if it expands my sound stage. Right. There's the brand name Cable Elevators sold in sets like this https://www.musicdirect.com/best-budget-tweaks-under-99/cable-elevators-cable-supports and there's also cable elevators sold on eBay as ceramic insulators which as you can see are the exact same thing for a lot less https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-Ceramic-Porcelain-Insulators-Brown-White/183480810613?_trkparms=a... Yeah turns out people collect the darn things as bric a brac, pieces of interest, decorations, etc. Because of this prices are all over the map. But also because of this you can find them in all kinds of shapes and sizes. They are also in electrical supply catalogs. Okay so what's the big deal? Well being a logical kinda guy I decided to test it out. Which you can do too. Tried wood, cups, carbon fiber, anything handy to support the cables up off the floor. Every single thing worked- more air, better image, more palpable presence. Finally after a while a dealer friend got Cable Elevators in said they were the best he'd heard so I bought a set. Easily the best thing yet. This was many years ago, late 1990's. More recently, moved some stuff around, got some much more expensive interconnects, bought some more of the generic sort off eBay. Made some little wood stands to hold the cables up and away from each other. As far as I can tell they are all very close in performance. If you go eBay look for the ones with the appearance you want and then look for electrical resistance. The resistance comes from forcing charges to travel the greatest distance over the most curves. They are all curved on the outside. The best ones will have extra curves on the inside so when you look underneath the bottom is curved back over on itself. Cable Elevators don't do this, the ones that do usually are more expensive. If you find them in a parts catalog with specs they will have the highest resistance, 40 to 80 to even 140kV. They seem to work by reducing static charges. Static charges definitely degrade sound, something you can test as easily as wafting some Static-Guard laundry spray over your cables. Another flat-out cool tweak to have on hand for those special late-night sessions. The improvement from a set of cable elevators is flat-out obvious. The people who deride this are everything that is wrong with audiophiles- ignorant, deaf, opinionated, uninformed, pretentious, I'm running out of derogatory things to say of anyone so obtuse as to not get it. Pay attention, almost never will they say they tried them and they don't work. Yet they see no problem telling you what's what. So add arrogant to their list of faults. As if their uninformed opinion matters. When every single person hears it, not most, not a lot, every single one, you know its for real. Like I said the first time, one friend noticed he could hear the difference removing just one. One. On one side. Out of 6. Sound stage collapses, midrange and treble loses its detailed smoothness, grain and glare increases, depth flattens and the whole stage that was deep and wide becomes flat and almost in your face. Since you had the experience of noticing what a good power cord can do then you for sure will appreciate this. Highly encourage you to experiment with a few things first. Possibly you will find enough improvement to stop right there and enjoy better sound almost for free. Main thing is as long as you try something and go with whatever it is that you hear and like then at least you will be a shining example for all the world to see what is right with audiophiles. |
What is wrong with audiophiles???? If your talking about this audiophile, well, I don't even know where to begin. First, I don't even like being called an audiophile. I think it's too snobbish and pretentious. I prefer to refer to myself as a music/movie lover and audio/video equipment enthusiast. I actually have a lot of other interests and hobbies, such as archaeology, cosmetology, Nazi and meteorite hunting, reading, history, scuba diving, helicopter skiing, pina coladas, walking in the rain and knitting. But my favorite pursuits are whiskey and fist fights, in that order. First a couple belts of whiskey, then a bit of dancing for acclimation and strategery, I ask the young challenger if it's not a wee bit past his nap time, he gives me that typical stupid bewildered look which serves as a trigger for me to unleash about 8-10 seconds of lightening fast, well choreographed, endlessly practiced and ferocious bone crunching strikes that inevitably culminates in my challengers taking an extended blood soaked nap. I don't even know why I enjoy this ritual so much, how it all got started, who these endless succession of challengers are, why it relaxes me so much and whether it's even legal. Afterward, I usually say goodnight, go home and relax with my system for a couple hours, either watching a movie or listening to music, before going to bed. I always wake up the next day feeling great, just thoroughly awesome! So millercarbon, what is wrong with audiophiles? I wouldn't know since I'm just a music/movie lover and A/V equipment enthusiast but I sometimes get the feeling I might need some help. Sorry, I don't use cable lifters and, therefore, have no opinion on their efficacy. Later, Tim |
An audiophile , this is a large encompassing concept for sure! For me a self educating process of hearing in the context of a self experimenting creative process of implementing material conditions for a better hearing....Upgrading bias to achieve this goal is the caricaturing process.... A true audiophile is born only when the man stop to buy in a compulsive way, and begins to listen through the conditions of his homemade room and audio system trough an increasing investigative and creative process toward improve S.Q.... No placebo effect explain or can even explain years of constant improvement, because of the creative investigation of all means to gain high quality....I am only interested in this creative process and the step toward it...Money cannot buy that....Money only buy the illusion of perfection, not the self educating process and joys of hearing by our owns experiments...If not, gives me a million bucks I will bought the best system in the world and called myself the greatest audiophile...For sure the assh… always pointed to his ass... I apologize for my last sentence, I speak about nobody in particular and only want to describe a general human attitude that is in all and each one of us....My best to all.... |
millercarbon, Because, as I said, its pretty much all of them. Ok, so then you are just factually wrong.
So are many audiophiles. Myself, every audiophile I know, and most on these boards from what I've seen. Of course you can continue your cartoon-people strawmen, but that says more about you than your cartoons. Really, this thread is clearly just your excuse to be high and mighty and diss other audiophiles. So, yeah, beat that dead horse (of straw). BTW, even though I find this thread of yours to be full of fallacious ideas, it doesn't mean I dismiss all your other posts, and that you don't contribute good stuff to the forum as well. Cheers! |