Weakest Link? Your honest opinions.

I have not liked monster cables in years. I feel they are too polite especially on the upper midrange and high frequency ranges. Source equipment and cabling is very important to me and is where I would make changes first.

I was in a similar situation a while back, wondering what was the `weak` link in my system as it turned out it was the speaker cables for me, do what I did with the cables, go to a local audio shop and inquire about in home trials worked for me. Bottom line is what you perceive as ideal sound is only for you to decide, don`t go throwing $$$ at your system when could be as easy as a cable swap.

first time poster:)

Good luck!

Dear Narticus,
You really asked an impossible question, because none of us has heard your system and none of us knows what you are after, what it is that you find unsatisfying. My first thought is that you might benefit from eliciting the opinion of a local audiophile friend, preferably someone more advanced than you. Ask him or her to come over for several hours of listening, preferably spread out over several different sessions using a variety of sources and musical genres. Then you and that person can have an intelligent discussion of the most cost-effective ways to improve your sound.

"Anti-cables" were mentioned. Paul Speltz makes them. He is one of the smartest most thoughtful guys in audio. I knew him for years before he got into the business. IMO, his products are very very good for the money and maybe even disregarding cost as a factor. When I don't make my own ICs and speaker cables, I use the ones made by Anti-cable. Far far more neutral than anything ever made by Cardas, for one example, and IMO of course.

Power line conditioners are a pit of snakes. As someone else mentioned you can easily harm the performance of your integrated amp by plugging it in to a PLC that limits current in any way. I would NOT start there.

Slikrik obviously wants attention, and I cannot believe that so many of the responses rewarded him with what he wants. His post should have been deleted on day one.

It's been quite a few years since I posted a comment on A-gon, so hello again. To get immediately to my point, I think Elizabeth's comments have much merit, but I'm going to be even more fundamental. When starting to improve a fairly basic audio system, start by looking at the components that are transducers: phono cartridges and speakers. Converting mechanical energy to electric energy, and vice versa, requires a well designed, linear transducer. If the signal isn't
accurately converted, then even the best amplification chain won't really help. Hence, I think I'd start with upgrades to your cartridge and speakers. Just my opinion, FWIW, after 45 years as a middle income audiophile...

Amp & speakers.

If you are going to fiddle with cables, use the LC-1 from the phono stage to the amp and get a nice phono cable like the VPI one for the tonearm to phono stage. That's how I have my Scout>Trigon VanguardII/VolcanoII>MD-209 set up.

"Get a better job and buy some real Audio".
What other response to expect from the snobby audiophile.
Actually 20% of so call audiophiles are pure snobs.
The Cables thick like a pregnant Anaconda and Amplifiers
with the at least 500 Tubes. Less is no good.

Good to hear you enjoyed the Kefs.

Not sure what tubes are in the Jolida now, but they're definitely stock. I'm going to look into replacement tubes and opamps for it.

On the integrated end, I've been eyeing tube amps primarily. Icon Audios seem nice.

Hmm you know....I have heard those Kefs and for the price I quite liked them. I heard them being driven with a Rotel integrated amp. So I don't think the speakers are the weakest link at all in your system to be honest. I would say change out the integrated and i am not saying the Marantz is a bad unit either but having heard your speakers with the Rotel I was quite impressed with the KEFS. Have you changed out the stock tubes out of the Jolida? What come with the unit? Probably stock Chinese or Russian 12AX7's. Lots of audio enthusiasts like the Mullards and of course the Telefunkens. These 2 for sure will give you great improvement in overall sonics.

Haven't upgraded my outlet yet, but I did purchase the following:

Pangea AC14SE - for my turntable
Pangea AC14 - for my preamp
Audioquest Black Mamba II - used between turntable and preamp
Audioquest Sidewinder - between preamp and integrated amp.
VPI/Soundsmith Zephyr Cartridge

The Zephyr, of course, made the most noticeable change. The old Nagaoka was a great sounding cartridge for the price, and on my P1, but this is clearly a huge step up. I find it hard to stop listening to records now.

I still need to A/B the cable upgrades. An improvement wasn't immediately noticeable, but if I changed back to my monster or bjc, it would probably be very apparent. I'll give it a shot tonight and report back.

Check the fuse box and see which breaker turns off your stereo. Recommend the dedicated line for cleaner power since there would be only stereo components on it plus you could then ditch the extension cord.

Before you buy tubes, especially in the preamp / amp stage, make sure you listen to them carefully. They can be noisy (I tried a Rogue Cronus Magnum and I had a Pro-ject phono tube box II). My Audio Refinement and Jasmine beat the tubes hands down.

Here's some Kef Q55 specs from Audioreview: 2&1/2 way design, 150W, 6ohm, 91dB/W/m, floorstanding

Single Ended Triode....you're going to get some tech info about this before the sunrise. This is a VERY signifcant change to your rig. Very. Forget about all the other stuff for now, if you're $ ready. Nothing in your rig will make a dent compared to this. What is the sensitivity of your KEFS? 20amp line? 20 amps? Not a problem.

Also, what's with these Anti-cables on Audiogon, does anyone have experience with them?

Warrenh- What is SET?
Looking at the Focal Electra's right now. Musicdirect has them 40% off. I'm not going to be able to afford them for a few months, by then the sale will probably be over.

Sbrownnw- Is it easy enough to test to see if I have a 20amp line right now? I'd like to do that first before asking my landlord.

I'd ask your landlord to get permission to put a dedicated 20amp line in if it is minimal work for an electrician. I know older places can be tricky, especially with grounds. Hopefully you can get one in without major work. The Porter Ports are good for an outlet and the Furnan I mentioned above makes a good basic line conditioner.

Rethinking my power conditioner remark, I haven't listened to KEFs in ages, but if they are tube friendly it would be, given your love of vinyl, a wonderful way to go; particulary SET if they are sensitive enough. If I were a vinyl guy, I would be looking SET and speakers in the upper 90dbs. There is not a cartridge out there that will culitvate your love life with vinyl better than some tubes.

Rlwainwright - I believe the weakest links are the Kefs and the Marantz. But I started the thread to see what other people thought.

Sbrown - I listen primarily to rock, metal, country, bluegrass, and jazz. I love acoustic music, but I also get off to loud distorted guitars. But I'd say 9 times out of 10, I'm listening to something guitar driven.

Tbromgard - I plan on upgrading the JD9 soon. Any tubes you can recommend?

Sbrownnw - I will be looking into these Mogami cables for sure. Cables of all kinds are something I haven't put much thought into.

Elizabeth - I'll look into the Pangea cords, AudioAdvisor does seem to have a sale on them.

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions, and for keeping the bully at bay. It's funny Sliktinydic3000 talks about getting a better job, since that's what I just did.

Fresh out of college, I purchased my first rig (the Marantz, Kefs, and a Marantz CD player)through craigslist for 300 bucks.

Now that I have a better job, I'm making upgrades, hence the purchase of the Classic 1 and soon enough, the Zephyr. I bought the Jolida for $350 through Craigslist about 3 months ago.

As for speaker placement and cartridge set up, I feel I have researched both very thoroughly and have them close to as good as they're going to sound in the room. I've bought DVDs, watched youtube videos, read countless articles, and experimented a bunch on both procedures. I'm sure a professional could make it sound better, but I feel like I've done a pretty good job.

So the next step for me is to upgrade.

After reading through your suggestions, I have a few questions:

Re: the Hubbell HI8300 outlet -- How hard is it to replace an outlet? Also, because I live in an old apartment, I need to wire my rig through an extension cord. I realize this isn't ideal, but I really have no choice in the matter. This is the only possible way to set up the living room. Do you guys think this degrades the sound? Are there any audiophile extension chords you'd recommend?

Re: Power conditioner. Any of those you can recommend?

Sbrownnw,

I agree the Mogami is good for cheap, I use the 2536 with Neutrik Pro Fi ends as well for about $58 from Pro Audio LA

Try the Mogami cable i mentioned above with the neutrk golds for $25 a pair. U will like them and it is what the music studios use.

we got your back Narticus!

fwiw I have a Monster IC (M850I) and it has terrible bass and the mids are 'splashy' - decent tone but terrible imaging and washed out.

I am not so sure about the Blue Jean cable but I recently tried some Signal Cable (which often is recommended as well as Blue Jean) and it was better than the Monster for dirt cheap but still not very detailed (even their silver Res).

I would try new cables first.

and good luck with lurking idiots....

;^)

Ok 3000 you asked for it.

Member of the 'Gon. I have been here for some 10+ years and I say maybe we can help 3000 out. Let's do it. Click on his system and his threads started and see this

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Slikric3000 (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)

03-04-12

I suggest we ignore ric, as you would a child misbehaving for attention.

3000,

Your system needs a few!! Have you upgraded you Monster yet LOL?

Cheese Wizzz dude.

Have you filled out any applications yet ??

I am with Elizabeth all the way about this. I bought the power cord for my amp at full price, and loved it right away. (SE model) I later bought 2 component cords (SE model) at 75% off. Scary 1 week break-in period, but after that, excellent. They are well made, and a no-brainer at the price. So if Liz is a shill, so am I. The Audio Advisor sale may still be going on.

Snow,

They are letting us ,the members here , have at 3000 for being a DH. I kind of like that. I am sure 3000 will not be heard of again on this thread. Well done members LOL.

the best thing to do is borrow (get a loaner) pair of "better" speakers from an audio shop or friend and live with them for a few days and see if the speaker swap takes you where you want to go. AND borrow a better integrated... and again live with it a few days (utilizing your old speakers). In isolating and then testing one variable at a time, you can get to this quickly. FWIW... your cables and turntable are very unlikely to be the weakest link. Though the cartridge upgrade and perhaps the phono stage are two other variables to isolate and check.

And one more note about power conditioners. I've tried a PS Audio UPC-200 and currently have a basic Furman M-8x2 Merit X series. Both are good, but both reduced the fidelity of my power amp (especially the highs) when I had that component plugged into the conditioner. I wish I tried the PS Audio without my amp going through it before I sold it. I have my amp plugged directly into a Porter Port along with the Furman plugged into the same plug.

The reason why I mention is, that you currently have an integrated and if you stay with that config you might run into the same problem of reducing your fidelity. Maybe try the same Furman I got ($50 on ebay) and plug everything into besides the integrated?

Hit post a little too soon. The reason why I mention going solid state in the phono stage is that I had tubes also for that component and while the Pro-ject phono tube box II was good, the Jasmine was better, warmer (dare I say more tube like), really tightened up the bass and quieter. I posted a review comparing the Jasmine, the Pro-ject and the Vincent Pho-8.

Speaking of tubes, I also tried a Rogue Cronus Magnum in place of my Audio Refinement preamp and amp. Again, the solid state beat out the tubes with the same winning characteristics. The Audio Refinement gear was better, warmer (dare I say more tube like), really tightened up the bass and quieter.

I've jumped off the cable dance train by going to Mogami RCA (2549) and speaker wire (2921). I use the Neutrik Pro-Fi RCA connectors and Audioquest BFAs to terminate the speaker wire in a biwire config. I really like the transparent sound of these and the price. Various pro shops sell this cable and I got my RCA's made up by Pro Audio LA (not affiliated).

I also really like my Tekton 6.5t monitors and have read many great reviews of Eric's larger / full range speakers (Lore?).

After that, maybe an Exposure or Audio Refinement integrated?

The Jasmine LP2 mkII is a very nice phono stage if you want to go all solid state...

Narticus - In a similar vein to Elizabeth's post, you might also try to identify what you dislike about your system as a whole first, then methodically determine which component (or maybe the room) is causing it, or at least emphasizing it.

For example, years ago, I used a mid-fi AVR for both HT and 2-channel audio. Based on how little real power many mid-fi AVRs put out, I bought a power amp to connect to the AVR, bypassing the internal amp of the AVR for the front three channels. The improvement was barely noticeable. I learned the hard way that the lackluster sonics I was hearing was from the preamp section of the AVR. Once I upgraded to a better pre-pro, the difference was huge. I have come to believe that the preamp in a system is a very critical link that can make or break the whole system, but YMMV.

Try whatever you can: If you can borrow different cables, an amplifer, a preamp, speakers, etc. Swap only one item at a time, of course. Does the swapped item make a positive difference? Negative? None? If you have a good local dealer, discuss this with him and see if he will let you borrow display models over night for this purpose.

The sad truth is that, in most cases, there will always be some weak link in an audio system. Fix one, and another becomes apparent. That's what drives many audiophiles to upgrade. I am currently taking a break (forced on me by economics), but thankfully, I am doing so with a system that I really enjoy listening to. Could it be better? Is there a weak link? Yes and yes, but after years of upgrades, I can enjoy my system as is for while.

Get the book or DVD " Get Better Sound" by Jim Smith. Read/listen the whole book/DVD.

You can be surprise by the result if you follows the tips that Jim Smith provide.

The base is always the room and you go from there.

First, the typically hyper-reactive moderators didn't scrub dickrick's remark. Stunning. A completely needless and tasteless remark.

Second, Elizibeth didn't use this to (as always) shill for Pangea powercords? What's this world coming to?

Anyway, to the OP - sorry for the rick-dick remark, and probably the most early cost effective change is to ensure you maximize your room's potential.

As sbrown says, look at accessories first. Maximise what you have got, before a big outlay on new kit. The turntable in particular, needs good isolation. A wall shelf on a solid, not partition wall, perhaps with some borrowed stillpoints. Is the rest of the kit on a good solid rack, perhaps with some more basic footers, such as the excellent range from Herbies lab.

You mention cables, not power cables. I was dubious, but they really have an effect, even on turntable power supplies. You can get loaners from your local dealer or the Cable Company.

When you've done all you can with accessories and room treatment, then I would loike at the amp or speakers, good though both are.

3000,

Get a real job and buy some real IC's!

Review: Cardas Reference Series Golden & Neutral Ref, Golden Pres. Interconnect
I use the NR all the way around. Some day I may upgrade to the GR.
Slikric3000 01-05-09

You owe the OP an I am sorry for being a DH!

Hey 3000 get a better job and buy a real power supply.

Monster Cable HTS 5000 ($699)
Hmmmm.

DH!

I'd second the speaker upgrade. Those were never a favorite of mine. I think you can see a big improvement for a modest investment. And speakers will be by far the most noticable change you can make.

I’m not familiar with any of your equipment or know your tastes to make any specific recommendations. I will say that component “upgrades” are not always the road to better sound. It’s my personal belief that the foundation of a high performing system (notice I didn’t say expensive) is careful attention to room acoustics and speaker placement, vibration control, clean power and for systems with an analogue front end, cartridge alignment/ table setup. Most of these can be improved upon fairly cheaply with a bit of patience. Learning how to ring all the performance your equipment is capable of is a skill that will serve you well going forward.

ric, wake up on the wrong side of the bed? That was a mean spirited remark.

Have you upgraded the tubes in your JD9, it makes a big difference.

So hard to give any advice without hearing a system. switching out certain pieces one at a time from friends or dealers may help. I don't think anyone can answer this question.
As far as you go Slikric3000, it is never good to put down the system of another, no matter what you own, but you are certainly in no position to do so.

I would replace the speakers. Surely you will hear the difference.

And better speakers will help you appreciate the difference when you upgrade the amp later. (Versus -- you might not hear a real difference replacing the amp first.)

Brauser,
Really? Who is he to tell someone to get a better job.Smug,rude and unnecessary.

There may be an ounce of truth to Ric's comment. Never satisfied, how many of us have made purchases that we later could only attribute to an impulsive listening session, hearsay, vanity or whatever? Yes, we all may be the weakest link in our systems!

Why the crass comment Ric?

Hey ric doesn't look like you're setting the world on fire

Hey slikric keep your stupid comments to your ignorant self. A member asked a reasonable question. If you can't help then do us a favor please don't respond.

I'm with Elizabeth, especially with her recommendation for a power conditioner as a starter.