I would really like to get my streaming sq up to my analog sq. My equipment is a McIntosh MC 452, C47, TD 124 with an AT 150 SA on a SME M2-9 tone arm, a Rega P8 with an Alpheta 3, a restored MR 74 tuner, driving Aerial 7t speakers. My streaming now is an iPad with a usb cable into my preamp with Tidal. I would be willing to spend around $2500 . A one box solution would be preferable for a steamer/dac combo although two boxes could also work. I’m not interested in multiple clocks and separate power supplies etc. Also I don’t use CD’s for a source. I do have AT&T fiber internet with up to 1000 mb speed and my modem is only around 5 feet from my audio rack. Balanced inputs is preferable but not a deal breaker. I’ve looked at the HiFi Rose 250 and the 150 although the latter is more money than I want to spend. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I’m an Analog guy in a digital world.
This is pretty standard for all high end streamers.
”One of the things that pushes me toward the HiFi Rose is the ease of use along with the support of the company as far as frequent automatic updates.in addition to the touch screen It has a physical remote or can be controlled from my iPad.”
How robust and user friendly the interface (Aurender and Aurlic are pretty universally considered exceptional) varies highly from streamer to streamer. Aurender supports iPhone and iPad and you can make requests in the app from the streamer so they can support and download a new version automatically. Questions answered within the app within a day or so. To use a new one, just plug in turn on, download app… put code from streamer into iPad… and you are done.
A key to the app is integrating your streaming service library and local files, And Network files if you have any. Keeping track of music you find in your streaming service and creating your personal library is really important. Qobuz, Tidal, and one or two others are integrated on all high end streamers. Just sign on in the app once and you are done.
Hopefully your HiFi Rose will be similarly well designed.
FWIW been down a similar road on streamers. I have a PS DSJ > Rogers Integrated > Wilson Sabrinas
Used to used Bluesound Node as streamer. Sound quality good not great. Constant software headaches.
Tried a pie mini computer. Sound quality was a bit better but the software needed to run it is not the best.
Recently purchased a Roon nucleus (the standard not the plus) for ~1600. I find the sound quality to be superior to the Node and the pie and at or above my CD player (Rega apollo)
@wc1, I really love the user interface of Roon. So going from a MacBook Pro to a Nucleus to run Tidal and Qobuz was a no brainer. I feel that I’ve really helped the sound quality by adding a 19v Sbooster linear power supply to the Nucleus, and using a Network Acoustics ENO Streaming System Ag between my network switch and the Nucleus.
What I always find interesting is people who spend a lot of money on their analog system; turntable, arm, cartridge and phono stage and then spend a bare minimum on setting up a digital system and talk about how analogue sounds so much better than digital. I am not saying you will fall into this trap just that if your analogue system is a lot better than your digital system this is how you will feel.
If you want digital to sound as good as your analogue set up then spend close to that amount and don't limit it to a third of your analogue's cost. Go for the Rose 150 or something in the $5k area. Just your turntable and cartridge falls into this range. Once you begin to enjoy the convenience of digital you will stream equally to playing vinyl and maybe more I am guessing. This is not because you will like the sound better but the convenience is there in terms of ease and access to so much music. Why end up feeling like you want to upgrade so soon from starting your streaming adventure. If you have the money available buy something in the $5k area. You might just want to go to some highend audio stores where you can audition and compare a $5k system to one half the price. If you don't hear a difference then you saved a bunch. Also compare the two price points not just to themselves but to an analogue system equal to yours at home.
If you do own CDs then I would suggest ripping them to FLAC format and stream your digital files and explore ROON which will manage your digital files and integrate with some of the audiophile level streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal. One of the nicest things about ROON is their ROON Radio that will integrate with one of the streaming services you subscribe to. This way you will explore a lot of new music that falls into the type of musical areas you enjoy.
Your iPad will be your control center, nothing I have found is easier but I do have a very large digital library.
I think the OP made a good choice in a one box solution. His original dilemma was, not being a digital guy, he needed something simple, but to match the rest of the gear that either meant higher than $2500 budget or going up the learning curve of the less expensive but sonically equivalent way of doing things.
Digital is a different skill set. Kudos to the OP for recognizing that. So many of the "digital is crap" crowd simply don’t know what they don’t know. I love the analog feel too, but sometimes I want iced coffee, sometimes I want hot coffee. Is either really wrong?
I'll also throw in that the Mytek line of products probably would have been a good choice for the OP. The Brooklyn Bridge II has the same DACs as my Liberty II and sounds beautiful, plus that version streams.
Over the years I've gone back and forth with upgrades to analog and digital in my system. For me planned upgrades to either side need to outperform the present superior side. I'm presently at point where it will take $10-20K to bring analog up to or surpass digital.
I've always found analog needs to outperform digital side in order to motivate me to use. My digital side has been at least satisfying for years, and the convenience trumps analog. Digital has gotten all the attention in recent years, reason analog needs major expenditure to catch up.
For vinyl only guys just getting into streaming expenditure will depend on how ambitious analog system is. Reaching too low on digital side will result in disappointment, it really takes quite a large expenditure and paying much attention to every single little detail to reach upper echelon of streaming. Streaming at highest level is complex and so many choices!
If you want digital to sound as good as your analogue set up then spend close to that amount and don’t limit it to a third of your analogue’s cost.If you want digital to sound as good as your analogue set up then spend close to that amount and don’t limit it to a third of your analogue’s cost.
This is where I am, got nearly same invest in both. Couple things its made me realize. 1)Not sure I want to keep buying vinyl given where retail pricing has gone and storing the media. 2) How crappy many vinyl recordings actually are.
I got 2 issues of the American pressings of the Beatles white album. They both have inferior SQ. Hop over the Qobuz and fire up the 2018 remaster and it sound much better. I searched around for the UK pressing which is supposed to be good. Found one in Canada for $100+ and no telling what its gonna look like when you get it. Or fork the big $ for the remaster LP. :/ I am thinking of saving my $ and continuing to tweak the streamer config.
Jj thanks for the affirmation. I sure hope you’re right. I bought the last one Crutchfield had in stock, so I can send it back within 60 days if I want. Last night I was listening to Tidal masters through my iPad and dac in my preamp, it was very enjoyable. Im hoping the Rose is going to be a big step up.
My vinyl collection is at least 90% pre 1990's purchases or gifted. While some of the newer vinyl has great sound, some is digital original mastering or remastering, pure analog masters, no digital ever sounds best to me. Vinyl prices would certainly be an obstacle for those just starting a vinyl collection.
There have been times when I've thought about liquidating my vinyl, tempted when I see prices of used vinyl. Since I purchased cheap back in the day, this has turned out to be good investment. The question is does the benefit of playing vinyl outweigh the financial gain of liquidating? Financial gain of liquidating entire vinyl setup also part of equation. I either need to upgrade vinyl setup big time or walk away. I bet any number of audiophiles have come to this place and decided to sell off vinyl. The better digital gets the more will come to this realization.
Another one box solution that has some enthusiastic fans:
For under $3000, a Cambridge CXN V2 with an upgrade by Modwright
What is included in the tube modified upgraded?
1. Replacement of stock DAC power supply with our own design.
2. Replacement of the entire stock SS analog stage with our own all-tube based analog stage and its own power supply.
3. Fully balanced in to out, with both RCA and XLR outs.
4. The entire mod is enclosed in one box, no outboard supply or umbilical.
It looks to have all the features the OP wants with an upgraded power supply. Equally someone like Dan to stand behind the product.
I have a cxn v1 and even thought of sending to Dan to upgrade except its 5 years old now. I also have a PSaudio PWD and a ROMA69DC . I love the tubes in the ROMA for a little more life. The CXN is the most user friendly and everyone who connects can play though it easily.
…as am I waiting to hear your impressions. Have the very same dilemma. Read countless reviews, as well as TAS’s recommendation just need to hear real world feedback to make the jump up to the HIfi Rose 150.
I moved my Comcast gateway closer to my listening areas and finally ran direct ethernet to my 150. Was always connected using wifi.
Just added the Onti CAT 8. Never would have thought that an ethernet cable could make any difference. Tweaking a lot of other stuff (new XLRs, power cord, speaker cables) with the addition of the new Rose, so can’t be entirely sure what has contributed to making it sound really good...
So I got the Rose yesterday and it is pretty impressive from a build quality and in general very solid. I got to play with it for a while yesterday and had some conversation with a tech guy at Crutchfield. Too busy today, but I have been watching some online videos on setup. For me this thing is not plug and play, but I’m 70 and not very computer knowledgeable. I’ve had a hard time getting the Rose to sync up with my iPad, so I’ve been using the touch screen, which in itself is pretty cool. Yesterday I listened to Tidal for a couple of songs but had very low volume and couldn’t figure out why. Looking around on line today I think I may of figured out how to raise the output to match my preamp better and have volume control from my pre.
im going to get this figured out if it kills me. The reviews on line are gushing so I think I will be pleased in the long run, it’s just going to take me a while. Maybe buying this from more knowledgeable people would of been a plus. The tech guy was watching a video and then trying to tell me what to do. Friday I should have some time to really get into it.
I’d consider a modern integrated streaming solution to start and go from there. Many vendors have good return policies so no harm in trying. Let the experts do the optimized integration for you if not up to have to dabble over time to find the right thing. It may be right out there just waiting for you to enjoy streaming right away and not have to figure it all out from scratch.
Step 0 only for RS150) Connect the bluetooth dongle to the ‘BT dongle’ port of RS150.
Step 1) Look at the screen. Touch shape at the top of the screen.
Step 2) Turn on Bluetooth.
Step 3) Press and hold HOME button and MENU button(the one with three lines) on your bluetooth remote control for a while, until the red light stops blinking.
Step 4) Touch ‘Device Search’ on top of the screen.
Step 5) You will see ‘ROSE RCU’ under ‘Scanned device’. Touch ‘ROSE RCU’.
Step 6) You will see ‘ROSE RCU’ under ‘Paired Devices’. Touch ‘ROSE RCU’.
@mapmanHad the Evo 150 for about a month. I was in the same boat trying to consolidate a bunch of gear. Tremendous amount of experience with Hypex, so know the nCore stuff really well. Probably would have kept it if it had the Purifi modules. Didn’t spend enough time to eval StreamMagic.
Can’t say that the M33 is 2K better, but it looks like one of the best stand alones to date (even with some of its bass management issues). I also had the M10, Lygndorf 3400.
I moved to Rose to enable some flexibility on amplification. Lots of movement with GaN based stuff.
Mbolek, OMG thank you so much. I have the remote and my iPad paired now. I have no idea what I was doing before. Going to try and play some music. Have to get the Rose volume or gain synced up to my preamp now.
So, the good news is that the sound is truly amazing. Big step up from my previous streaming from my iPad through the dac in my mc47 preamp. I listened to most of Kind of Blue and the sound is on par with the new Analog Production Album that cost me $125. Not exactly the same but really, really good.
The bad news is I can’t use my iPad to control things and Tidal on the Rose is very rudimentary, meaning I have to search for anything I want to listen to. My iPad is paired to the Rose according to the Rose screen but I don’t see any way to get it connected. I have the Rose app on my pad and when I try to link them it just doesn’t work. Any thoughts from anyone?
I am gobsmacked at how good this sounds. Everyone of the MQA or master songs I’ve listened to on Tidal is as good or better than my best albums. The imaging, soundstage and tonal quality is just amazing. I saw the reviews on line that praised this unit and its every bit as good as they say. I will say that I have gotten a bit of buffering over the course of 9 or 10 hours of playing. I hope this is fixable. I may email Rose and see if this is a problem.
Gobsmacked is good, especially if you can assess an in depth opinion while being so! Thanks for confirming sound stage, imaging, and playback of MQA on how playback compares to best vinyls. These among other features 150 has my sights on the 150 for sure. Maybe I missed it but are you using the XLR connections? Also curious if you’re using the wired Ethernet connection? May help with buffering as I was told by my ISP.
Hopefully soon you will get all working seamlessly and it just becomes as reliable and predictable as a CD player or turntable. It should be. Also, operating from your iPad and creating a library of stuff you like is mandatory. If this is not true soon. Think of changing.
Living in the streaming world is much different than in the world of collecting vinyl or CDs. I seldom listen to stuff I listened to in my vinyl or CDs any more. You can get lost in nearly infinite music. You need to easily find the stuff you like… and writing it down would not be an acceptable solution. So, hopefully it sounds fantastic and you can comfortably move around.
Also, start up your free month with Qobuz. By the end or the month you will drop Tidal. I did… and all my audiophile friends.
I’m using the balanced outputs and an Ethernet cable direct into my router. I just downloaded the Qobuz app and will give that a try in the coming days. Streaming does lead to music you’ve never heard before. Just play one song and you get a bunch, that Tidal in my case, recommends for you.
I thought my streaming before was decent using my iPad through the dac in my preamp but this is a huge improvement. Over the years I’ve made upgrades and changes that helped or didn’t help the sound of my system but other than changing from my old ADS L810 speakers to my Aerial 7t’s, nothing has made this kind of difference. I’m not a very good writer or reviewer of audio gear but this change will have me playing a lot less records.
Just saw this thread and glad you are enjoying the rs150b. I borrowed one from my dealer for the week and think it's really, really good. My standard combo is an Innuos Zenith MkIII going into a Border Patrol DAC, which is a great match for my Volti speakers. The HiFi Rose is not as lush, has a bit more bass and a bit more detail. Most importantly, it's an engaging listen. Without getting into the R2R vs Chip wars, the implementation on the ESS chip here is obviously really good and so far I think it sounds as good as any of the other options that I've heard at this price point, and those don't come with all the extras (touch screen, Rose Video etc). I think you made an excellent choice!
BTW--some of the comments on DAC being 90% are just off. I have a Zen Stream (which is definitely better than the Bluesound Node 2) and when I compared that running into my Border Patrol DAC vs the Innuos Zenith MKIII into the Border Patrol it wasn't remotely close. I think buying one box at this price range makes a ton of sense.
Something to consider with an all in one streamer is Dirac Live.
Dirac Live resolves the soundstage with improved clarity and intelligibility with all instruments and vocals. With the room correction aspect you'll experience deeper and tighter bass free of resonances throughout the listening area, with greater transparency and the removal of distracting artifacts.
The miniDSP SHD is a good example of a streaming high definition digital audio processor with excellent DACs. Dirac Live uniquely combines frequency response correction as well as impulse response (time domain) correction in the digital domain. Fixing time domain anomalies is an impressive advancement for any audiophile system.
The only downside is the increased complexity and effort needed to fully integrate Dirac Live. So having excellent dealer support is important. Deer Creek Audio is an authorized miniDSP SHD dealer.
For others still on the fence about upgrading their digital, I just replaced a significantly more expensive Aurender server/streamer with a Roon Nucleus paired with an IFi Zen Stream (as the Roon endpoint) connected to my DAC via spdif. While this set up took me a while to figure out, the improvements in sound quality, system stability and the user friendliness of the Roon interface is proving to make this one of the best decisions I've made in my 25 years in this hobby. So for less than $2K, this change has transformed my sound quality and listening enjoyment. I wish I had made the change to Roon years ago... it's a revelation on many fronts.
I am looking for a DAC to replace my PS AUDIO direct stream jr which has irreparable damage.
Due to my geographical location I cannot listen to the equipment before buying it, I rely on the information I find on the internet, blogs, reviews and specialized magazines
My interest is a DAC that is of great quality, I cannot be changing equipment every two years, for me the life cycle of a product must be at least 10 years.
My maximum budget is around $4000-5000
I would like a newly designed DAC that can stay competitive for the next decade, obviously sound quality is paramount.
the DAC will be connected with a CD transport (coaxial), a mac mini (usb), and a roon nucleus server by ethernet (it is located in another room different from the place where the DAC will be.
I just read this blog and I would like to know the impression after 4 months using the rose. Likewise if the combination between the roon nucleus and the rose is synergistic. Thank you
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shape at the top of the screen.
