Want to get into Analog

@mrpostfire-  If you live anywhere around Indiana, use this site's Member Contact, and message me.

Thanks to everyone for the comments. Lots of differing opinions here. I’m leaning towards second hand because I wanted a DD (I want a simple button to change speeds) and the Pioneer PLX 1000 seems to be the only decent new one that would fit within my budget.  

In on the other hand, there are an assortment of Luxmans, Pioneers, Yamahas, Kenwoods, listed in CL at the moment. Most are under $750. I’ve used CL with success before and was able to audition before purchasing.  I also see that there are eBay sellers who specialize in restoring vintage TTs.  I am willing to expand my budget but I prefer to purchase something that is ready to use out of the box.

I have heard TTs at local dealers but most new units are way beyond $1000 or even $3000.  

If you are thinking of taking a plunge into analog, I would recommend going to your local audio store and buying something new.

Find something within your budget to get started . You will have everything new, under warranty , they can set your turntable up with a new cartridge  and you will have their support and guidance for any issues , or questions afterwards.

You will get far better results with a Debut Carbon Esprit, for $600, than with any vintage turntable in you range.

@orpheus10 Following the masses from records to CD implies nothing more than the same low-fi crowd bought the latest and newer medium. The interesting turnabout where many regret selling their records is worth noting.

This one could be a great option for you: Luxman PD-441
My reference DD is Luxman PD-444, but it's much more expensive than 441, you can find all info here.  

@mrpostfire,

If you're really serious, you'd not rely on others and go for what you feel.

The Technics SL-1200mk2 is a risky proposition. Most of them have been thrashed by rap-“DJ”s and will need all moving parts replaced.

Some "Rap-DJ" ruined @sleepwalker65 life?

Why so much hate for them in every post about 1200mk2 ?

Moving record back and forth does not destroy a turntable, tonearm or motor, they can only destroy a record and needle, but SHURE M44-7 needles designed for them, special slipmats designed for them (for your favorite "rap-djs", they are actually a hip-hop scratch or battle djs, because rap is rhyme, not a music).

And how a certain genre of music can "thrash" a turntable?

What he’s destroying in this video by spinning two identical James Brown records ? He’s manipulating records doing tricks (cutting samples right from the record in real time using cross fader on technics mixer), but turntable platter is always spinning forward, tonearm does not move, record needle does not skip. It doesn’t matter do you like his choice of music or performance - this is the best example how good and stable this tuirntable is !

Until someone physically destroy a tonearm (by dropping a brick on it) this turntable is bulletproof and this is the reason why SL1210mkII has been choosen for clubs, bars, radiostations for all kind of DJs.

And in 2019 Technics made improved SL1200 mk7 (retail is $1200)

Why does it have to be vintage? For your first TT and for simplicity, you can get a new Rega P3 with an Elys cartridge within your budget. For a little more you can upgrade the cartridge to an Exact 2. It’s a great starter table.
Also, I would be very reluctant to buy a "vintage" turntable on Ebay.
Audiogon or US Audio Mart, probably yes.
 

The Technics SL-1200mk2 is a risky proposition. Most of them have been thrashed by rap-“DJ”s and will need all moving parts replaced. As OldSchool said, a fully automatic SL-1600mk2 is an vastly superior turntable, but very rare as are its SL-1700mk2 semi-automatic and SL-1800mk2 brothers. You could start off with an inexpensive AT95E to stay within your budget, and over time upgrade to an AT VM540ML, better tonearm wiring, interconnects, phono stage and KAB fluid damper. 

Technics SL-1600MK2 if you can find one.  It is fully automatic, and unlike the vintage SL-1200, it was not designed to be a DJ turntable.  I’ve had one for over 30 years and its still going strong in my secondary system.

I’m thinking of taking a plunge into analog sources by picking up a vintage DD turntable.

You must be an experienced user to understand what you’re buying when it comes to vintage DD. Or you need someone you can assist you.

There seems to be an endless supply of vintage tables available on eBay and CL.

Post the links, what do you like ?

Which models would be good values for under $1000 (total budget for turntable, arm, cartridge.

Your total budget is too low, but if you can exclude a cartridge from this budget i think you can buy some nice vintage DD turntables like Denon DP-80, you will have to make your own plinth for it if you can’t find this drive in original plinth, then you can add Denon DA-401 tonearm. This combination could be under $1k, but then you need a high compliance cartridge, i think for $300-400 you can find a good one (i could help, got some nice spares).

You can use the same scenario with Victor DD turntables, find a TT-81 drive, make custom plinth, add Victor UA-7045 tonearm. And fidn yourself a mid compliance cartridge like Victor X-1IIe for $300-400

Anyway you need at least $1200-1500 for everything.

And if you don’t know for $1400 you can buy brand new Technics SL1500c with build-in phono stage and pre-mounted cartridge as a package deal. This is a brand new turntable, released in 2019. Maybe it’s better ? Technics motor is superb, turntable made in Japan. All for $1400 including phono stage and cartridge. Think about it. 

Actually, the only reality that counts belongs to the OP ;)

Reality is whatever the majority on this forum say it is, unless you are a realist.

I am with frogman. You gotta start somewhere.

My first vinyl setup was somewhat humble: A Clearaudio Champion with a Benz Micro Ace cartridge and Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena phono stage. I bought them used for no more than $2.3k circa 2006.

I was immediately hooked after the first listening session. It was warm, full bodied and so organic that either my Sony SCD-1 or Shanling CD-3000 (highly modified) wasn’t no match.

I now spend most of my time spinning the black discs.

YMMV

@mrpostfire You won't know until you try it.  Then you can formulate your own opinion.  Buying used presents some risk but it's a great way to dip your toe in the water.   Whichever way you go, try to get some help with the initial set up as it *can* be tedious and tweaky.  Personally, I enjoy this type of detailed work; not everyone does!  The Thorens table link in frogman's post above does look really nice.  I have no affiliation with the seller.  Good luck to you and please post your impressions if you go down this road!

Find one locally at a tag sale for minimal expense and try it. I did just that after a divorce cost me my good TT set up which was a VPI Scout Dynevector 20X cart and Graham Slee phono stage.  Are they equivalent, no not even close but I still enjoy vinyl.  One day I will replace the better set up.

I "vociferously" reject Frogman's comments. Ask yourself; "Why did the millions of people who owned record players and records before CD go exclusively to CD?"

The answer is quite simple; CD's sound much better than records played on even good "mid-fi" rigs. There is no magic on a vinyl record without a "Hi-end" analog rig.

Why didn't the millions of people, including myself, hear this magic in the records as compared to CD when CD came out; after all, we had been listening to records for all of our lives; why didn't we hear the magic as compared to CD's? Let me give you the answer to that question.

It's because we we're not into "hi-end" analog. My cartridge, which is rated Class "B" by Stereophile; costs more than a Class "A" CD player, and you're good to go with the CD player, while you still have to purchase more good stuff to go with my Class "B" cartridge in order to hear music.

I had been listening to records for my entire life; why didn't I hear this magic of the vinyl LP before I got into the "Hi-end"?

"You have to run with the big dogs or stay at home"; anything short of that is a waste of time and money.

Hi-Fi reviewer John Darko has a Pioneer PLX1000 ($699 new) DD Turntable and is singing its praises.

A Mitsubishi DD linear track TT would be a good choice! I have one in my collection.

Freediver, I’m glad you posted on Mrpostfire’s thread as I was going to respond to yours, but by then you seemed to have made your decision to not try vinyl. I followed your thread and as I read Mrpostfire’s OP I searched for a way to describe what I feel was not conveyed nearly well enough in most of the responses to yours. Mrpostfire, I hope you don’t mind the “dual purpose” of my post on your thread.

Freediver stated that the comments to his thread were “eye opening”. I would say that the vinyl experience can also be eye opening and I would be the last to discourage anyone from trying it as many posters unfortunately did.

For me and many others, there is a fundamental difference in the way that vinyl presents recorded music in contrast to the way that digital does it. I know some will disagree with this premise as well as the idea that it is not necessary to invest in very expensive, or SOTA playback equipment to hear (and feel) this fundamental difference. Both can sound great while retaining their fundamentally different ways of sounding great. IMO, even at freediver’s $350 budget that fundamental difference will be there. That fundamental difference resonates with some listeners and not as much with others. A very personal matter; but, when that difference resonates it can trump other aspects of the listening experience that are mostly audiophillic in nature and, for some, not as important to the music. Unless one tries it there is no way of knowing.

There were and will be lots of different suggestions for tables. Looking through the listings here this caught my eye. As offered, this table is a good example of what is possible within Freediver’s general budget. IMO, it would give a good taste of what vinyl does well. With a well chosen cartridge upgrade and closer to Mrpostfire’s budget it would give a bigger taste; possibly much bigger taste. Yes, the fiddling that Freediver doesn’t want to do can make an important difference, but it is not necessary to find out if the difference resonates with you. (No affiliation to seller).

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9c4hd-thorens-td-166-mkii-turntables

Good luck to both of you and do try vinyl; it can be eye opening.

A Technics SL-1200 would be a good start. Plenty of them listed on Ebay!

^^^ You should read the thread I started called "Vinyl,What If"....Very eye opening...