However, given the lack of willingness pursuit for quality products exhibited by today's younger generation, I fear less and less recording studio will be willing to spend time and effort to create a pure analog master tape. If you tell my sister, who's 23, about Vinyl, she will give you a quizzical look and just ignores you completely.Actually its kids that are driving vinyl sales these days- not older audiophiles. And vinyl has been doing quite well in the last few years. The years of least production of vinyl was actually 1992-1993. Its been on the rise ever since!
Vinyl vs high def audio i.e. 24bit / 96 or 192khz
I was born to the world of cassette tapes and soon digital music. My only experience with Vinyl was the one rather audition I had recently. It wasn't feasible at the time for us to try a blind fold A/B test. So my question for anyone has experienced both, is that is it worth it to buy a turntable?
The entry level ones are not really expensive compared to the gears I currently have. However, it's my habit to not keep things that I would not use. That includes thing that is a hassle to use or requires a lot of maintenance. The shop owner where I auditioned a Rega turntable kind of insinuated it falls into both of the aforementioned categories. For instance, the Vinyl doesn't hold many songs so swapping is pretty much a necessity. Upon some research, I also found that vinyl albums recently issued are likely produced from a digital master anyway, some are even just slightly above CD Quality. I have a large library of songs from HDTracks that are at least 24bit / 48khz and honestly I cannot tell a difference once they hit 24 bit / 96khz.
With the above said, what's so great about Vinyl in your view? Thanks for the feedback.
The entry level ones are not really expensive compared to the gears I currently have. However, it's my habit to not keep things that I would not use. That includes thing that is a hassle to use or requires a lot of maintenance. The shop owner where I auditioned a Rega turntable kind of insinuated it falls into both of the aforementioned categories. For instance, the Vinyl doesn't hold many songs so swapping is pretty much a necessity. Upon some research, I also found that vinyl albums recently issued are likely produced from a digital master anyway, some are even just slightly above CD Quality. I have a large library of songs from HDTracks that are at least 24bit / 48khz and honestly I cannot tell a difference once they hit 24 bit / 96khz.
With the above said, what's so great about Vinyl in your view? Thanks for the feedback.
77 responses Add your response
“Actually its kids that are driving vinyl sales these days- not older audiophiles.” I respectfully disagree, I have yet to witness ‘kids’ buying the vinyl. My local vinyl stores (the two I frequently visit) , the typical crowd is 55-60plus. I was at AXPONA this weekend and witnessed the same trend. Unless you call 50plus crowds ‘kids’ then I concur with you wholeheartedly 😊 |
In line waiting to get into Music Millennium on Record Store Day, I saw all age groups represented, from the man-bun (what a hideous "look" ;-) and bearded 20-something year old dudes (they’re everywhere in Portland), lots of girls and women, middle-aged men (some with their kids), and old hippies (they too are everywhere up here in the Northwest. In L.A., they are extinct). When I frequented Music Millennium back in 2010, the LP bins were up on the mezzanine, the four rooms on the street-level floor devoted to CD. Now, two-thirds of the street-level floor space is devoted to LP’s (there are thousands and thousands and thousands of them, all genre except Classical---they are all CD), and half of the mezzanine. Somebody is buying LP’s! |
Dear @bdp24 : So what?, that's no fact that the LP is superior to the digital alternative. Only histories/tales that means nothing on that specific regards and that proves nothing. Please don't make the same mistake that millercarbon and thousands of LP lovers. This is not about what you or me like it more but facts that can tell us which is superior and till today no one of you posted any single true fact that proves the LP superiority and you know what: no one can prove it because that technology is really limited against the all days growing up digital technology/alternative. Have you common sense or not even know what means common sense? A market " trend " can't shows that LP superiority to you or any one: are only sales. Come on I know you are not stupid to follow supporting " histories ", you are much better than that: or not?. Let the other people whom posting about are only showing its very low knowledge levels. Not because some one thosands of times repeat to him self : I'm living in Venus planet he is really in true living in Venus. No, he lives in the Earth planet ! ! ! ? ? R. |
@folkfreak Thanks for the suggestion! I'll definitely check those out. I think I got some pretty helpful suggestions here so thanks all for that! I want to point out two things though: One, I am not a fan of specification based decision making. My ears are the only judge. This is mainly because everyone has some level of preference or let's say a certain "characteristic" that his brain accepts as "great sounding music". For instance, I've had several co-workers and friends came listening to the same track repeatedly on my Parasound Halo A51 and McIntosh MC275 (tube). The amps are closed in a cabinet and are not disclosed to the listener. I found that except 1 of them who says he couldn't hear any difference, the other 4 individuals all said that the MC275 sounded better to their ears and they were able to pick up some subtle instruments in the background. Yet, many science articles seem to suggest tubes carries more distortion. Secondly, similar to #1, I think most of you who prefer LP had some experience with LP, perhaps before digital ever came to existence. I think our brains perhaps are conditioned to accept the norm as "the best". An analogy can be made for the choice of food. What taste good for one culture may be "inedible" for another or vice versa. As mentioned above, one may prefer a single characteristic in music and as soon as that characteristic is missing, your brains notices immediately and thinks "WTF this isn't music". However, that characteristic or set of characteristics may only be appealing to the one specific listener and is not universal. So in the end, there's no double blind test that could resolve this because individual preference will still exist regardless whether the person knows what gears are playing. I think the best is for me to visit local boutiques and actually listen and find what my ears like. |
| Post removed |
Please don’t make the same mistake that millercarbon and thousands of LP lovers. This is not about what you or me like it more but facts that can tell us which is superior Question: Why do you play music? Do you play music to look at the patterns on the oscilloscope? I don’t think so. Do you play music to print out a nice flat frequency response? I don’t think so. On your all time favorite music list, are the songs rated by signal to noise ratio? I don’t think so. Have you ever thought to yourself, "That Jimi Hendrix (Carlos Santana, Jimmy Page, fill in the blank) solo would be so awesome, if only it had the low distortion of a pure sine wave"? I don’t think so. Instead, I think people listen to music because they like it. They play their favorite songs because they like them. Really, really like them. Like them a lot. Some people even play the music they like more than the music they don’t like. Sounds crazy, I know. Hard to believe. But true. Question: Do you in general like things difficult, or easy? Pretty sure we all know where this is going. If its making some people uneasy, well maybe a little less sticking to preconceived notions, and a little more acceptance of the facts? Because playing a record sure ain’t easy. So if despite all the trouble a whole lot of people are playing more records, just maybe its because they like em a whole lot more. Which, given we’ve already established that we by definition like what is better, means records are better. And them’s the facts. |
millercarbon, Could it be that whole lot of people are ‘stuck’ playing records cause it’s the only way they know how to enjoy their favorite tunes? Could it be that whole lot of people invested so much money in buying vinyl, setting up their TT rig and they are just too stubborn to admit that their could be another format that’s equally good or better? Could it be that most Vinyl lovers aren’t adventurous enough to explore other options to enjoy their favorite tunes? I mean why bother after painstakingly collecting thousands of records, most of them are probably out of print and holds sentimental and monetary value. And if they did, they weren’t patient enough to setup their digital rig properly and gave up quickly. One vinyl lovers openly admitted to compare his $$$$ vinyl setup with a $100 CD player. Most people can’t get their heads to think beyond ‘digital bits are just 1’s and 0’s’ I am sure you or anyone else just didn’t start enjoying vinyl and TT out of the box. It took countless hours of fine tuning and gear swapping. Same rules applies to CD playback and digital streaming. Those taken the time to fine tune their digital setups are enjoying their favorite artists and music just as much as the next door Vinyl lover. As I said before, listening music through Vinyl is a different experience not necessarily better. |
And to answer your question “Why do you play music?” Music entertain us by reiterating certain aspect of our lives. It makes us feel or connect to our emotions. And your enjoyment of music or favorite artist should not be contingent upon the format, shape or form; you enjoy them regardless. Let’s not get caught up in the debate as to which format is better, just enjoy the music. |
“Actually its kids that are driving vinyl sales these days- not older audiophiles.”Just go through the record bins of new LPs and look at the titles. The store is buying titles that keep them in business. Who listens to all that stuff? I have pretty eclectic tastes and love to buy current titles, but there is way more stuff out there than I have any idea about. I have a preset on the FM radio in my truck, set to the UofM radio station (KUOM), which is run by and for college kids. I have to assume they are playing things that people of their ilk listen to, so when I see those LP titles in record stores its a pretty good indication that kids are driving LP sales. Of course, anecdotal evidence on my part is nothing so go look at Billboard or the like. LP sales have been driven by kids for a very long time, even if you aren't there at the time to see them doing it :) |
Hi Fi and I mean all of it is just a tool, a tool to play music. Most of the music I listen to from a time perspective is on Sonus remote speakers in my office, garage and workshop as back ground music. I am always humming and tapping along even though I am not listening seriously. It could be a transistor radio for all I care. I play records because I have thousands of them, it is tradition and it is much more of a challenge to set up and make really sing than digital. It is more rewarding. I had thousands of CDs. Now they are all happily living on a hard drive. Records make much better collectibles. Now I get Hi Def files online. I got into computer music at the onset and I really like it. It is relatively easy and trouble free. But it is all just tools, tools to keep the music going one way or another. Arguing that one method is better than the other misses the point. You can argue that when cost is an issue it is cheaper to set up a good digital rig than it is to set up a good Vinyl one but that would depend on your definition of what good is. Good is any way to keep the music going when it comes down to brass tacks. Yes, the audiophile in me wants to recreate the live experience particularly the visceral sensation you get from live music, even an acoustic guitar (Richard Thompson). Nothing beats that bass drum in Stravinski's Firebird or Dave Weckl beating the crap out of his kit. I want to be 20 feet away from that drum kit just as I was at Boston's Reggata Bar. That is the real challenge, making music sound live. I don't care what cables you use or equipment you have if you can close your eyes, see and feel the band in front of you, you are in business. |
| Post removed |
There is no mountainous economic barrier to entry to the vinyl world if one is patient. Just today in a high end audio equipment store I saw a perfectly functioning used 35 or so year old then TOTL turntable with a very fine vintage cartridge for $100 (reduced twice from a starting price twice that). This store offers 30 day audition to boot. With patience one can find 30, 40, 50 and even 60 year old vinyl that is in NM- condition for $1-$2 in thrift shops. Jazz, rock, classical, you name it. Turn hunting for these gems into a part of your hobby. I can't imagine not listening to vinyl which is always my preferred medium. Tape (again a vote for analog) would be next followed by streaming Tidal and cds. |
I can offer another reason why people may be attracted to vinyl: its user-friendliness, i.e. it's fussy but I understand it. I have a high-performance digital front-end (pc-based music server-reclocker-dac, etc) and two TTs. When the server is down, I have *no* idea what’s going on and why. It can happen at, seemingly, random. The TT s/ware never crashes... |
This has been a topic forever and I think it all gets down to what you enjoy and what ones lifestyles dictate. This is really not only about this topic but audio in general. Both mediums can be very fun if you want to "devote" the time to it. For me I have a dedicated listening room and DO NOT want to always be pinned down to the chair since it is in my basement location. For me I only had about a 350 count record collection and only about 1/2 of those were of VG sound quality. Now with other interests and retired vinyl became too much work and tweaking to get it right. I owned a Linn LP12 and later a Clearaudio with VG arms and cartridges but the expense vs. the difference in sound was simply not enough for me to continue. I also hated the fact that every time I played a record the stylus on my cartridge or wear on the record became a mind game. Vinyl became like driving a stick shift/clutch car. In addition, since cash flow became more prevalent I bought two 180G records at last years RMAF and one was noisy as ever and at $30 bucks a pop it kind of gave me a push. Used vinyl in my area is a crapshoot. I have since moved on to a really good streaming device with SACD/CD player housing both a PCM and DSD dacs separately and lastly internet radio with over 7000 channels all in one unit. It also has a remote I can play and stream from my upstairs as it works via antenna. Now streaming Qobuz Hires, listening to Internet radio which can be fascinating, playing one of my many Cd’s/SACD’s has been game over for me. For me discovery of new music takes precedence over what that differences in sound quality really mattered with this device. I am now down to only about 100 records left for sale and could not be happier since my vinyl rig was not being used much I moved on. Now I am down to this source, preamp, monoblocks, and speakers...... for me simpler was certainly better. This is not to knock one medium over the other as they both can be VG but my point is to make it enjoyable depends on one’s interests and lifestyles. Life is too short not to pay attention to what moves you. That really is audio in general. |
me: Hi Alexa.....please play Vivaldi - Four Seasons for me on vinyl ...... ..............................(silence) me: Alexa are you there ? Alexa ? please play Vivaldi - Four Seasons for me on vinyl ...... Alexa - Sorry I am having trouble understanding you right now. Please try a little later. ***********************************
really ? https://photos.app.goo.gl/zKgwta9xvWG2HvhL7 |
^^Why would you or anyone even bother to compare the two...one is Analog and the other one is Digital. They ought to sound different, hello? You say, you don’t or won’t own a TT, even though you know it’s something special....what does that mean? Is it a matter of preference / convenience or you’re perfectly happy to settle with a inferior format 😉 |
bigkidz Once you get to hear the reference quality CD set-up and a reference quality TT set-up IMO there is no comparison. TT just does something special that CD playback cannot reproduce. I do not own a TT and probably won’t but hearing is believing. >>>>>Oh, I don’t know, I think it all depends. I dislike generalizations because there are so many variables involved. The debate has been raging for almost 40 years with no end in sight. But, if you could hear what I’ve heard with my ears..... |
If I had 20K to put in a digital playback system I would probably like digital as much as my vinyl setup. Right now though, I hear considerably more variation and realism in the vinyl domain,. Hey, I wish I had a digital setup that sounded as good and convincing as vinyl but I will not chase it because what I have is really outstanding. Not spending that kind of coin chasing what I already have. Could be the other way around for some. If so, you as well as I are blessed to have awesome music to listen to. So no debate from me. Frankly surprised it's such a bone of contention. |
| Post removed |
