Karl, After many comparisons here, is an experience thread on audiogon of a fellow that had owned the Pass XA 60 Monos and Vandersteen M5 HPA this is a typical outcome when our customers do that comparison.
((((. I was pretty happy with XA60.8s when I had my Quatro CTs, but the more open midrange on the 5ACs made me feel something was amiss that no room treatment, positioning, or Roon DSP tweaking could ameliorate. Essentially, there was a glare in the upper midrange - at times. On good days, when I wasn’t too fatigued from other things and perhaps the AC quality was good, (P20 is only on upstream components), I could be floored with my setup. At other times, trying to get through an extremely difficult piece to do well on a system - for example, Brahms 3rd symphony, especially the opening, was a bit fatiguing. RV himself chalks this up to the XA60.8s having global negative feedback, which causes time smear and is especially evident with his time and phase correct speakers. Also, I’m sure something could be said for the simpler circuit path in his M5-HPAs. All I can say is that once I heard the M5-HPA’s, there was no going back. )))JohnnyR
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I have heard great things from both John R and Jon S about the William Tell and Robin Hood speaker cables. Seems like a big leap forward for Audioquest. I currently use Kimber 12TC shotgun Biwire which neither of the Jons likes! Something about a midrange suckout... I am happy to try a nice short run of these AQ speaker cables when I convert to monoblocks. I’ll also be auditioning some AQ Water XLR for my 30ft run between preamp and amp. See if I can hear the diff between that and the Mogami XLR currently in place.
I am interested in your experience too @gdnrbob! I’ll read about the William Tell and Thunder power cables too. Oh and the Niagara 3000/5000....those were also involved in my Ultra Fidelis auditions. |
@karl,
Yes, feedback seems to affect the performance of Vandy speakers.
It seems all the companies that use zero feedback seem to work with Vandersteen- Ayre, Atmasphere, Aesthetix.
And, Vandersteen.
Belles is also a good fit, but I don't know if it has zero feedback.
I do know that the little Belles Aria Integrated paired with the VLR's is a superb match.
Bob |
I have complete trust in Jon at Ultra Fi. I have been building and upgrading my system for 15 years and Jon has always helped me through education and support, not just trying to sell me stuff.
My system now consists of Vandy Quatro CT powered by a ARC REF75SE amp. To me, this is a great match and I am holding onto this for as long as I can. Sources are a VPI Aries 3 with Lyra Delos... and an Aurender A10.
...it’s calling me now!
One of the most important things I did to ensure the best sound is have Jon personally set up my speakers with his Masters Setup. I did the math and set up the speakers according to the Vandy manual and I really took my time. Sounded great. Then I decided to have Jon do a Masters Setup and... Amazing to me the difference. |
I’m sure it makes a difference. Right now I’m at “sounds great” but want to get to “sounds amazing” like I heard at Ultra Fidelis with both the Quatro and the Kënto. |
@pilrem. Thanks for the endorsement of Jon too!
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Just an update. I decided I liked best what I heard at Ultra Fidelis. I ordered the Vandersteen M5-HPA and William Tell Zero/Bass cables. Very excited to see what the change does for my system. Thanks to both Jon Spelt, @audioconnection and all of you for your advice. |
I have had the pleasure of having the M5-HPA and the new AQ cabling in my system at home for a couple weeks now. I am really enjoying the new presentation which has improved imaging, soundstage depth, micro detail and a sense of space in the recordings. The sound is more musical, colorful and communicative. I can't recommend more for Vandy owners with powered subs to: Get your speakers setup in your room optimally, think about your current cabling and consider the M5-HPAs for amplification. |
Richard calls it an unfair advantage when the speaker designer makes the perfect amp for that speaker :-) enjoy !!!!! |
They really do seem made for each other. To be more specific, I have noticed in the past that it would take higher listening levels to get the speakers to sound balanced across frequencies. Like the speakers were a bit "closed in" sounding with former amplifiers. The M5-HPA make the speakers sound correct at lower and higher volumes. |
At some of the Shows Vandersteen was using Brinkmann gear with their speakers. |
I’m not at all surprised that they would work well. I am surprised that one of the masters of value, amplifiers are so expensive. |
@unsound. I do understand that sentiment. Having owned Vandersteen 1c, 2ci and other value leaders in the Vandersteen line, and can say that while the prices have grown in the higher end line, the sound quality does seem to keep pace with the price increases. This makes the Treo/Quatro/Kënto competitive with even higher priced speakers.
The amps are pricey at ~16,000 a pair. I was comparing them to Ayre monoblocks and Pass Labs monos that were around the same price. The dealer I bought them from also sells Audio Research as well and might tell you that the M5’s outperform the Ref 160 monos when paired with Quatro or Kënto speakers.
Jeez! I sound like a Vandersteen dealer! It would be amazing if Vandersteen could sell something like the M5-HPAs for around 3 or 4K which would make them more competitive with lots of amplifiers and more of a value proposition. But the M5 has relative value given their sound quality and absolutely overengineered design. That ultimately made the M5s the right choice for me compared to other upgrades from my Pass XA30.5. |
the KX-R was on my shortlist....Richard is working ( slowly ) on a killer preamp, with functionality nobody else will have...
I have been listening to my Reference system today after a 3 month hiatus ( covid forced ) and good as the TREo CT / RM-9 combo is the 7 and 7 w ARc front end is jaw dropping..
fun
hopefully everyone is well |
The value in Vandersteen products has always been a performance/cost
ratio and the M5-HPA compared to any amplifier at or above its price
point is as great as it has ever been in my experience.
JohnnyR
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@tomic601 ,
I use the KX-R (non Twenty), and find it to be a fine preamp. It even bests my Atma MP-1, which is no slouch either, though if I played around with tubes and made some additional upgrades, I bet it would get even closer to the Ayre.
Funny, I asked Mr. V. about a preamp at the Kento demo at Audioconnection, but he was very cagey.
I think I will proceed with the KX-R upgrade when finances allow, or they have an upgrade special.
B |
There are plenty of very fine affordable tube and SS amplifiers to pair with Vandy speakers. Peek under the hood of the model 7 amplifier ( you can see a rare internal photo on my Poverty Bay Sound system page ) and imagine trying to trickle that $50 k plus down into a $15k price... not easy when you start out listening to the M7.
Value isn’t being the cheapest- look at the model 2 - still beating inflation:-)
On Brinkmann- typically paired w Vandersteen 7’s at the Munich show - I appreciate the genius of Helmet - I use gis Bardo direct drive table and have his DAC on my short list.
on the long rumored preamp - ? Who knows when - just keep playing music !!!
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Hey Karl,
just checking in to see how the new Vandersteen amps are running in?
Best JohnnyR |
buddy here in Seattle just ordered Quattro with M5, driven by Aesthetix signature preamp and PS Audio DAC.....going to be fun :-) |
@audioconnection The amps are a pleasure to use. They continue to surprise me with their natural presentation and increased resolution compared to my previous amp (XA30.5). Over the weeks they are becoming slightly more extended in the high frequencies but never harsh or analytical. All this is also in context of new speaker cables (AQ William Tell Zero and Bass biwire) new power cables (AQ Hurricane and Thunder) and a new 10M interconnect (AQ Earth XLR). Very impressed with how the old Quatro Woods are delivering it all in their new positions in the room. |
@karl_desch , I got to meet Jon at Ultra this week. What a great great guy. I agree on his set ups. That was sick how the walls disappeared in that room. It's a real world room with no acoustic play toys. The system was cold, but you could tell that it was opening up etc after about 20 min. Even with that, it still sounded 'right'.
I look forward to visiting with him again. |
@ctsooner Nice! Did you listen to the Kento or the Quatro? |
Kento's. I sure wish I could afford those, lol. WOW> |
