Upgrading Fuses

When you upgrade fuses on an amplifier in addition to changing the fuses on each channel is the fuse next to the power cord changed as well? The reason I ask is I'm potentially looking at $200 to $275 expenditure depending on the fuses I choose on an amp I paid a total of $800 for. I still keep wondering if diminishing returns will be kicking in. Thanks

Jedinite24,
I have been advised that the fuse next to the power cord is the only one you should change at first. If you hear improvements, only then you should proceed with changing the other fuses. I will do this sometimes in Jan, since I have much more higher priorities now.

I am lucky, I only had single fuse per component to change, but I would tend to agree that the fuse nearest the power cord would be the place to start, and perhaps that's as far as you need to go if you are pleased with the results.

Personally spending 200 dollars on gear worth 800 doesn't seem right to me,but if you feel the need then why should my opinions matter?

You see it doesn't bother me one way or the other how you spend your money.

No one has the right to say you shouldn't or that it is foolish.

But, spending money on things you have never heard is something that I think needs some thought.

Buying anything unheard has a 50/50 chance of you liking it or not.
That's why there's stuff on Gon.

So, unless you have some experience about what certain things like fuses or power cords or conditioners or dedicted lines can do to the sound of the music you listen to, then you are buying on faith, and relying on all of "us" and the advertising industry and are easy prey to the snake oil salesman.

I really can't say when the last time I was bitten by a snake oil salesman.

I usually do my homework and "listen with MY ears" before I decide to break out the wallet.

I would think this is the norm with most normal people ,hence no need for the evangelists to save our souls.

And yes to be able to discerne differences, good and bad or indifferent, is something that has to be learned.
Some have learned how and others have not, and so the need for measurements to soothe their insecurities in whatever white paper mumbo jumbo floats your boat.

It always helps if there is a fellow in a white lab coat or EEG attached somewhere.

I also feel that the specs of most gear made today(not vintage-sorry to say)are quite good and you might not see very much measured differences from one amp to the next for example.

And yet, people can and do buy one amp over the other and continue to do so, over and over.Look at the amp ads on Gon.
Now tell me, that all those amps for sale are bought and sold because of how they measure on paper or because of how they "sound"?

To belittle anyone's hearing ability is as bad as saying you must have golden ears.
Yet I know of many normal people not in this hobby, who can tell the differences between a tube amp and a solid state amp.

And despite what someone has said about musicians, the real one's are not tone deaf.

They futz about with transfomers, different raw speaker drivers and tubes, all in search of the "sound" that they want to get.
Why are modelling amps(they sample the tones of several makes and types of amps) so popular if musicians are unable to differentiate tonal differences?
It's the very essence of a modelling amp.
Sorry,that's one for the musicians, and a strike against the ears not being significant to a musician.
A musician's stuggle to find the right sound be it a violinist or a rocker is pretty much out there for all to read about,most guitarists have several amps and guitars and prize each one for it's own unique sound.
Are his ears being fooled?
He would laugh at that.

The only fellow who would settle for a cheap solid state guitar amp over a vintage tubed Fender reverb is the guy without the cash to buy the Fender amp.

And so to for the audiophiles who turn down their noses to the folks who can afford the stuff they can't,if they could they would.

Jedinite,

If you haven't experimented with a good power conditioner or after market power cords, you might consider that before fuse upgrades. The advantage of power conditioners is that they can improve every component plugged into them. They also lower the noise floor to such an extent that you'll hear tweaks and adjustments to your system more readily. Shunyata and PS Audio gear can be found for reasonable prices on a'gon. Not that it proves anything, but my father was thrilled with the improvements he heard recently after we applied power conditioning to his midfi system. He has the NAD 326BEE and Meadowlark speakers, which are hardly pricey. Good luck on your journey.

Sebrof - "To me, this is the crux of the debate. When someone's limit is above or below their own some people simply cannot deal with that."

Good point.

I am firmly in the camp that upgraded power cords, whether DIY or store bought name brand and upgrades to the power delivery are crucial if not mandatory today.

Wallplugging your gear , or going straight into the wall which was the norm back when I started in the 1970's,for me, isn't the way to get the most bang for your audio buck.

And neither is a stock fuse.

So, if you are in the camp that can hear the differences that power cords and power line upgrades can do for your system then you owe it to yourself to go the next step and purge your gear from one of the last bottlenecks to good sound.

That they cost so little, is a novelty in this day, when you hear what they can do.

Those upgraded power cords are still at the mercy of the stock fuse.

Replace the fuse and finally hear all the improvements that the power cords and conditioners can deliver.

It's really that simple and cheaper than the countless amp,speaker trials and errors audiophiles submit themselves to.

It's all in the little details, add them up and you start to see the big picture.

Lacee - I'm in the camp that gives up after 3 pages of the same arguments.
Happy listening!

Happy listening is indeed the end result ,and the intended one at that.
Why else bother with the expense of upgrades?

Did someone blow a fuse?

Happy listening, indeed, to everyone.

Jeff,
You did not comment on my Nordost VS Signal Cable point. The price point of the lower end Nordost was about $200 compared to the $350 Signals. The higher end Nordost were north of $800 and I did not prefer them.
BTW, I am eager to know your components. You do not list them, so I would not know what your preference is.

Hi you guys

In my systems I do have aftermarket power cords and power conditioning on my system but they are all very modest. My power cords are 14AWG Hospital Power cords that are purple and gray. I swear they look a lot like the Iron Lung Jellyfish power cords but for much less. My front end has power conditioning via a Topaz 1.8KVa Isolation Transformer and a Belkin PureAV surge protector power strip. Not the most expensive gear but I have heard a reduction in noise floor. My amp is plugged directly into the wall socket.

Before I get to the fuses I'm going to try some DIY power cords using Belden 83803 wire with Sonar plugs followed by a change to Hubbell 8300 Hospital Outlets. I'm trying to not overspend on tweaks or upgrades like I have in the past.
If I get noticeable improvements out of these tweaks I'll make the jump to fuses if I can find them at a price I find reasonable.

Jedinite,

I like my Hubbels...it'll be interesting to hear whether they work for you.

Carol 10/3 cables work quite well as power cord wire, but it's bulky.

I've used FIM, Shunyata, and many Hubbel receptacles, anything is better than what comes with the house, but some are better than others,if your pocket book rules the day, then look for some cheaper used plugs.

As far as IEC and male plug ends, I've found that the cheaper Furutech copper plugs do a good job for reasonable money.

I have also noticed a big step up when I made a new 20 amp power cord using the Rhodium 20 amp plugs from Furutech and their top line power cord wire.

It was costly, but still cheaper than a 20 amp Annaconda CX.

I have 4 Annaconda Helix power cords,the Hydra 8 and Hydra 2 power conditioners and two dedicated lines going into 30 amp breakers and using 10 guage solid core Romex.

My breaker is only a few feet away from my gear in my listening room, so perhaps the increase in sound quality by using upgraded cords and fuses could be more pronounced in such a situation.

But, I have been fooling around with DIY power cords and fuses since the 1980's and in a few different situations.I always noticed a level of improvement by using upgraded cords and fuses, even if they were cheap and DIY.

There are audible differences, and those differences are for the better .Once you hear them you won't settle for stock again, no matter how expensive the system is.

Look at your power needs from the panel to where your gear accepts it, and everyting in between.

It's a complete system, and like you've read millions of times'all systems can be compromised with weak links.

It's also cumulative.

If you can't do it all at once,try one component at a time.

Upgrade the power cord and fuse and receptacles and if you like the improvement, move on to the rest of your gear.

If you can swing dedicated lines, all the better.

I've found that one reason some tweaks get a bad rap is because they are expected to work miracles and transform a mediocre system into a high end one.

That's not going to happen.

But if a few tweaks used in the right places are combined with dedicated lines and the power is addressed, you can make a mediocre system sound better than it did.

Adding one HiFi Supreme fuse to an otherwise stock system, may or may not make an audible improvemnt if all the other essentials(for me) aren't addressed.

But leaving it out of the mix of a finely tweaked system which does have all the goodies, doesn't make sense to me either.

And in this case you should be able to easily hear what it can do to improve an already good system.

In all my years at this hobby, it amazes me why such a simple little investment(in an upgraded fuse)can create such controvery.

Fuses degrade the sound, you can try DIY replacemnents and discover this yourself as Peter Aczel discussed back in the late 70's early 80s, or you can just spend the money and buy the IsoCleans or HiFi Supremes, and know that your gear is protected and sounds better.

So why don't high end manufacturers add them to their products?
Some do.But most also only supply the most modest types of power cords.

HiFi is all about enjoying the music and making it sound the most acceptable it can to YOUR ears.

That's why they leave the aftermarket stuff to the purchaser to decide if one brand of power cord for example is better than the other.

In all fairness this isn't a cop out.
How are they to know what your room sounds like, what other components you have and how you've addressed the power?

They don't, because they are not big brother forcing you to bend to their wishes, although a few have tried this type of approach.Most have failed,and have become more conventional.

No, it's up to us to assemble audio systems that meet the demands of our listening environments and our ears.

Sorry if that sounds a bit out of tune with the way the newer thinking is concerning our hobby,but it's the way I've always approached it, and my experiences have been more positive than not.

All gear can be improved, or at least made to sound the way that it was designed to sound, or perhaps even exceed the expectations of the designer.

Sometimes all you need to do is replace the stock fuse.

Well, how conveniently do the non-believers ignore genuine requests. Jeff (or any non-believers), you do not mention your system nor attempt to reply why I chose my existing cable over some expensive cables.

10-19-11: Milpai
Well, how conveniently do the non-believers ignore genuine requests.

If Jeff has yet to answer your particular question, maybe you could send him a PM instead of attempting to incite others, because the exact same question has and will be posed to the “believers”.

Good day.

Oh well.

Milpai - What exactly is your point, how does it relate to fuses or to anything I've written and no I'm not inclined to write about my system (but you can probably figure most of it out from other threads if it is important to you).

Metro04/Jeff,

My point was related to "generalization" that you make regarding the fuses or other upgrades. You guys make a point that all fuses are same and there is no point in upgrading them. A $0.25 fuse is same as $45 fuse.

On the same lines, I had a particular speak wire that I replaced with a slightly more expensive speaker wire and I could easily make out the difference. But when I tried an expensive speaker wire than the one I currently have, I did not like what I heard. Mind you, I could easily afford the expensive cables, but I did not, since they were not to my taste.

But per you guys, audiophiles spend like crazy and go for expensive stuff. Does this at least make any sense to you that not all audiophiles have that mentality? On the same lines we DO hear the differences - which you claim do not exist. At least I tried a cable, which I did not like and simply returned. I would never make a statement about anything that I have not tried myself. That would be prejudice -isn't it?

I hope you get my point.

I just came upon this thread and offer the following story.

I own a pre-amplifier made by a well known and well regarded U.S. company that has been around, in one form or another, for over two decades. It designs and sells its own stock electronic equipment and also sells upgrades to that stock equipment. My pre-amplifier, which I bought on Audiogon, was an early prototype of its highest level upgrade.

About 10 months ago, I was talking to someone at the company about whether my pre-amplifier lacked any of the current upgrades available. He suggested I take a picture of the insides and send it to him by e-mail. Then, as an after-thought, he asked if I had considered upgrading the fuse. I hadn’t. He said that the people at the company had recently experimented with upgraded fuses and found they improved the sound. He said I could do it myself and suggested that I give it a try. I replied that my knowledge about the inside of electronic equipment was practically zero. No problem, he replied - the fuse was tucked in a little drawer under the IEC power cord receptacle and accessible from the outside. He would provide me with the fuse specification and the names of some supply houses.

The person who spoke to me had no reason to hype the improvement made by the upgraded fuse. He was not trying to sell me the fuse, and he was not trying to sell me his services to replace my fuse. Furthermore, unlike the posters to this thread, to a certain degree he was putting his company’s commercial reputation on the line, because handing out bogus advice could damage its reputation. Finally, who is in a better position to judge whether a fuse makes a particular device sound better than the people who designed, make and service that device on an ongoing basis?

Dougmc - What you say does make sense, however there is always another point of view.
One way for this company to make it's upgrades seem more valuable would be to make other somewhat similar upgrades seem more valuable. IOW - They sell better resistors and capacitors, connectors, whatever. "Do they really make a difference?" the potential customer might ask himself. Well heck, even the fuse makes a difference, so the upgrades must make a difference also. "I'm gettin' them upgrades, Level 3 for me."
I don't know the company of course, so it's purely hypothetical. But I believe it's a valid point.

Milpai - "My point was related to "generalization" that you make regarding the fuses or other upgrades. "

In my opinion, you can't generalize fuses with ic' or power cables or tubes or room acoustics upgrades or magic rocks or etc.. I think you have to look at each on it's own merit. If you feel I've lumped these things together then that is likely the result of poor writing on my end and is not the result of intent.

"But per you guys, audiophiles spend like crazy and go for expensive stuff. Does this at least make any sense to you that not all audiophiles have that mentality? "

Yes.

"On the same lines we DO hear the differences - which you claim do not exist. At least I tried a cable, which I did not like and simply returned. I would never make a statement about anything that I have not tried myself. That would be prejudice -isn't it?"

This concept was discussed on the first page of this thread and on this page as well, I don't have anything new to add.

Once more I would prefer to 'conveniently ' be done with this particular thread.

Happy listening.

Very interesting different takes on the fuse uograde advice given by a real manufacturer.

That it has been regarded as a ploy to yet again rob the poor unsuspecting audiophile of his money is a sad statement about how so many folks who claim to be active in this hobby seem to percieve it.

You know the types, the ones who claim everything is suspect and snake oil.

But why do they care how or on what I and others spend our money?
I spend on things that make me enjoy the music more.

I wish I had more money to spend,I'd buy better amps and speakers and wires, more room tuning and power conditioners.
But I don't, and a lot of folks don't.

But the cost of an upgraded fuse isn't going to mean your kid can't get a college education or you have to take out a second mortgage.
It's something most folks can afford,and they work in my system, and for me that's just as well as getting a new amp etc.

I've been on the buy and sell merry go round for years.
It's been fun.
I learned a lot, assembled some real class A systems and now in my twilight years,I am enjoyng my latest system more than any of my previous ones, and my present system isn't anywhere near as exotic or expensive or as high end as the old ones were.

So what's the secret?

Doing things to upgrade the gear that I have, and that has mostly been investing in power products not new amps and speakers as I used to.

When you start on this road, which many are recluctant to do because of all the fear involved(danger Will Robinson,that looks like snake oil!)you realize how much we compromise the quality of our gear and never really hear how good it is.So we tire of the sound and move on to the next promise of a better tomorrow.

I wish I had some of the stuff i've sold over the years that I never really heard,because I never did anything about the power going to it.

So who cares if the fellow who invests in the new fuse takes that learning experience and applies it to other upgrades that will improve his enjoyment of his system and the music it serves?

Isn't that what this hobby is all about?

At least it was when I started out on this journey.

Lacee,

Your experience mirrors mine exactly. This hobby has never been more fun and these fuses are a welcome, budget-priced upgrade that helps me get the most music out of what I already own. The key word for me here is Music. I favor anything that helps me appreciate more of what I already enjoy. A friend of mine just put new fuse in his VTL 2.5 preamp and he's over the moon. More fun. What can be wrong with that?

Just to add another bit of info.

I was glancing at the manual for the Vandersteen 3A speakers on another site, and low and behold Mr.V. says that fuses degrade the sound, avoid speakers that have them and amps that have speaker protection fuses.

He's speaking speaker fuses, but the key thing to remember is that "fuses degrade the sound" and I would add that wherever they are used, they will degrade the sound.Peter Aczel found that out 3 decades ago.

I remember when spiking speakers or components placed on tip toes for example was deemed voodoo and snake oil, also about 3 decades ago.

Perhaps in a few more years, upgraded fuses will join the other "snake oil" tweaks that have now become the norm.

Well....ps audio is shipping their PWD mk2 upgrade board with an "upgraded fuse". I believe it'll be a Critical Link.

I've spent too much time thinking about this whole fuse thing. Not even worth "wondering about" IMHO. Should have spent the $100 many thoughts ago and found out for myself. Just ordered a pair so the truth *in my mind* will soon be answered. Not sure why was so hesitant. Tried new/different IC's and PC's without a lot of prodding and research. Neither made any sense at the time but I approached them with an open mind......and learned something. We'll see what happens. The price of admission is small enough to make the risk/reward ratio look pretty darn good.

Plan on installing the fuses in my pwd before the upgrade kit arrives. Since the bridge firmware seems to effect SQ, I'll use my PWT as the source. Also plan on comparing PSA's Critical Link vs the Hi-Fi Supreme after the mk2 arrives and breaks in. Will try to report back with some thoughts.

It's great to see that you are going to take the plunge and try one of the fuses.

Although I am not familiar with any of the gear you will be using the fuse in,like all things in this hobby, YMMV.

With that in mind,the supreme fuses when used in amplifiers,are usually not hard to evaluate.

Audio Magic just came out with their all new Nano-Liquid Premium Fuses for $60 each

The Flat Earth Society newsletter ( yup, they still print paper) just came out...the latest article is about how nano particles cannot exceed the speed of light. Apparently this violates what the Society calls Einstein's Law. (which he called a theory, btw). Swiss researchers are undaunted. They just caused a nano particle to appear in two jars at the same time. No word from the Flat Earther's...they still can't believe there's land beyond the horizon.

I think it's audio magic that a company can sell fuses for $60 each.

Here's $60.

Now you see it, now you don't.

I put off fuse exotica for as long as possible, but recently anted up $12 for an Acme cyro-treated silver ceramic fuse. This was very much worthwhile in a BAT tube amp and a "bargain" relative to $60.

Has anyone actually tried the $60 Audio magic fuses? That is a lot of money for a fuse, but I've learned by experience to not dismiss a priori the AM stuff. I have purchased a number of items from AM over the years, from power conditioners, to interconnects, to cryo'ed duplexes, an found it all to be an exceptional value. I've gotten more than my moneys worth out of the investment, So now, do i spring $500 to refuse my system? I'd like to try fuses for my maggies first, since the audio signal actually passes through those fuses. Sooner or later I'd like to give this a try, but it would be nice to hear from someone who has actually tried these fuses.

Way back when, Peter Aczel had a magazine called the Audio Critic.
I subscribed to it, as I did to Stereophile and TAS.

Back in the mid 1980's I think, he ran an article about how damaging speaker protection fuses were to the sound of whatever they were used with.

He suggested bypassing them altogether , using speakewire or partialally clad solid copper wire.

Magnepan owners were the first to reap the benefits.

I am not surprised that younger Maggie owners haven't caught wind of this, because over the years Peter Aczel has become the poster boy against things that are purported to make an improvement.He is the great Myth buster to a lot of folks.

But have no doubt,back in the old days when he was young enough to hear differences, he was spot on about speaker fuses.
I took him up on his stand and until the onset of better made although prohibitively expensive for some($60. to $85.00)I used different chunks of solid copper and threw the cheap $1.00 fuses into the garbage where they belong.

Yes a fuse is just a fuse and it's only purpose in life is to blow if there is a fault somewhere in the system.
Except of course it's not that simple.

It's a sonic bottleneck that even old Pete heard back in the day.

So,is it that great a stretch to reason that if a speaker fuse degrades the sound that fuses in general degrade the sound wherever they are used?
Afterall until the high priced ones came around, most were the garden variety that the manufacturer had to throw into the amp so it would pass code.So most everyone had the same fuse, albeit in a few different configurations based on the cicuit.

Then after 30 years someone got wise and decided to market a better made fuse, unfortunately it costs more than the $1.75 some folks feel it should cost.

I am not saying that the price is a steal or a ripp off.
But someone is making money off the $1.00 fuse aren't they?

To me the deal was done years ago, fuses degrade the sound.
No fuse or a DIY bypass(try one in the Maggies)is better than the cheap ones that come with most gear.

I used to use solid copper and threw out the old stock fuse in all my gear, amps included.
I was lucky and never had a failure, fire or malfunction.

When the designer fuses came out I bought the Iso Cleans and after hearing what they did on my power amps I upgraded all my gear to them.

Now I use the HIFI Supremes,a bit more expensive, but I can afford to enjoy the improvement they make.

When you think about how much money is wasted on swapping out amps, speakers, interconnects, speaker wires, etc,the cost of a fuse that can improve your sound really isn't that much as things go in this hobby.

Some people have no qualms about spending big bucks on NOS tubes that may or may not improve your system and they may be of questionable vintage and quality.And those folks buy them on faith or word of mouth.

And yet the poor little upscale fuse continues to take a backseat.

I know I will never convince the folks who know the fuse can't make a difference, or convince those who think that $60.00 is akin to shutting the door on their kids education.
All I can say is that what Peter Aczel said back in the 80's still applies today, fuses degrade the sound.It's not fiction to me, it's been a fact.

The great thing is that now I get the added protection of a fuse without the degraded sound.

Replaced all the fuses in my system sometime back with neodymium magnets..No fires..only thing that glows is much more music. Tom

Magnets!
Now that's interesting.

Could you add some more info?

When I was into the DIY replacement fuses I could hear the difference in sound between solid core copper and stranded copper wire.

Please elaborate on what the magnets bring to the party, and where you sourced them.

Lacee

I have been using magnets instead of fuses as suggested by Rick Schultz for the last 5 years. Rick and I shared some common experience in amp layout, speaker design, resonance control and core ideas for cables. Rick's turn on of magnets were his totally.

The playback with the magnets installed was so bombastic and dramatic over the standard fuses treated with AVM...I never ventured out to find anything better. Granted that last statement doesn't normally describe my adventures in audio but the magnet addition was like I added a sub or two as the noise floor dropped and the resolution went thru my basement ceiling.

Tom

Mr L- re: Maggies and fuses. It's not difficult(in the least), to remove the x-over of a Maggie and bypass the fuse holder completely, eliminating the extraneous connections. Simple as removing a wire from one side of the holder and soldering it to the other.

Rodman,yes it is very easy to do,and when done, it's also easy to hear the improvement with the fuse out of the link.

Sounds like I was preaching to the choir. Happy listening!

Brownsfan, I just try out one of these Audio Magic Nano-Liquid fuses for my Yamaha a-s2000 solid-state integrated amp and this fuse made my amp sound very..very tube-like !!.. These fuses are AMAZING !!

THESE ARE A MUST TRY FUSE FOR ALL SOLID-STATE OWNERS !!...

Hifisoundguy,

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with the nano-liquids. I've pretty much decided to pull the trigger on some for my Maggies. As I said earlier, I've learned from experience not to blow off the stuff from Audio Magic.

I bought the HiFi Tuning Fuse - the $37.95 ones (basic ones, I assume). I just got them two days ago.
After only 30 hours, I am quite astounded at the improvements they afford my ASL Hurricanes and hence, the entire system.. I'd spoken to Tosh Goka, who said he didn't hear much difference. But having been a detective, I like to try things for myself.
Welll....they DO have to break in - at least a few hours. At first (meaning as soon as I turned the amps on) the changes I thought I could detect were very subtle, such as a cleaner, less glaring sound. That was clear but subtle and this was with almost no break in. Today a "Supreme" fuse arrived from Music Direct. Apparently, the Supreme version is similar in its construction to the Mundorf Silver/Gold capacitors. I wouldn't know.
I had the less expensive ones on both amps yesterday and, as I said, I DID hear a difference, but had to strain a little. After 24 hours, no strain is needed. The changes are obvious: transients have more leading edge, which enhances the sense of separation of individual instruments, and even the imaging improved (and Hurricanes do NOT need assistance in that category).

When I put in the Supreme on one amp I held my breath: I mean, who wants to experience disapointment. I wouldn't let myself expect much, but, by golly, they're changing by the hour. I would assume the first fuse, which had been going straight for 30 hours (left the amps on playing music) is ahead of its "Supreme" brother (or sister, if you will) in making the music sound like...music.
It also seems -- and I say seems -- to have increased the upper frequencies on the Hurricanes a bit, so that, instead of feeling like you're in a room with only 75 watt bulbs, it's now a room with 85 watt bulbs (which one could do with a rheostat in degrees).
I'm surprised you guys spend so much time doubting instead of doing the empirical thing, like getting one and putting it in your equipment and then playing the equipment for 48 hours straight. You'll hear it. I'll have to write Tosh and suggest he try it again.
The easiest thing to hear is the lessening of grain. And transients have less of a "burr" on them (e.g. violins drawn against the bows sound cleaner and sweeter than before the fuse change).
I put on the Leonard Bernstein recording of The Rites of Spring, an absolutely HORRIBLE recording - which is why I used it: anything that could make it sound better was either euphonic or just plain good - but either way, it would be an improvement, sonically speaking. Pre-fuses: Just a mishmash of instruments jammed together. Only the loudest instruments or the ones in front of the stage could be distinguished (on my system). But today, even though I had the "basic gold" ones on both amps, when I got up and well into the music room, I could tell the difference in the recording. It was starting to make sense, instead of the wall-of-sound it threw up prior to the fuse change. When I put the Supreme in, and played it again, it sounded...musical (well, as musical as the Rites of Spring can sound. Which isn't very, but it became entirely more listenable, meaning I was pulled into listening to the first 10 cuts before I stopped the CD.

Pre-fuse: I'd listen to one cut, and start jumping around to see if I wanted to listen to any other cuts. Just wasn't interested. Now, I find myself highly attentive.
Equipment:
First Sound Deluxe MK II, ASL Hurricanes, Hale Revelation 3s, Arcam FMJ23, Nordost Quattro Fil interconnects, Shunyata Andromeda speaker cable, Shunyata Python CX power cords, Quantum conditioner with QX4 units, Nordost Sort Kones (Brass under preamp, Ceramic under amps), Tube Traps Galore.
With the fuses in the system, it is very easy to hear when a change in the orientation of a tube trap is killing the sound. Of course, I could hear it before (my room has ASC's Wall Damp Treatment (resilient channel and squares of wall damps between two layers of drywall), but now it's so EASY to hear it.
I would rather someone contribute when they actually KNOW what they're talking about, then to simply post to prove Ivor Tiefenbrun's statement, "If you haven't hear it, you DON'T have an opinion."
You should just try it instead of making yourself feel superior for not falling for another "snake oil" get-his-money-before-he-knows-what-hit-him "scheme."
These actually work.
Sorry, I gotta go. I've been watching tv for an hour and I'm DYING to "hear" what else has improved!

Goodness Gracious, I done got me a case of the Vapors!!

It's only about 20 minutes since my last post, but I had to come out of the room, 'cuz those Hurricanes done heated it up something fierce and I just cain't turn 'em off. It done sounded too good! (And before anyone complains I'm un-pc, I'm a 62 year-old Black man and the way I'm feelin' right now, I couldn't care less that I'm coming across as giddy as Butterly McQueen!). G**damn!
So, lets make this easy. I have two fuses left, and I doubt I'll need 'em. Anyone who needs a 10 amp fuse (A Hurricane owner, maybe) can email me : mcbrion@aol.com. I'll GIVE you the fuse for free. That way, you can hear what I (and Lacee) can hear. I'll even pay the postage.
Just as a furthur note: between the time I left the room, an hour ago, and now, the separation of instruments has improved and I noticed, in particular, when the piccolo blows in Cut 2, 2:13 into the cut (the Mercury Living Presence CD of the Rites of Spring (Mercury 434 331-2), the metallic bite is there, but there's no ringing riding the harmonics: it's just a clean, clear take-your-head-off piping hot note! Usually, when I've heard it, there's an extra "zing" to it, but not this time.
So, even though it's only 1 fuse, if you use a 10 AMP fuse, post here or email me. First one wins.
I'm really thrilled that such a stupid little change could effect such a significant improvement in sound. It's not like I was looking for it. I just happened to be perusing Stereophile's articles and went thru the Powerline Accessories section and saw Fremer commenting on them. So I read it. It piqued my interest and I read it and ordered two fuses immediately. (it was only $75.00 for both plus shipping). Here's the link: read it for yourself. And I think we can assume Fremer, big mouth that he is (I'm one, too) is not shilling for ANYone.
Here's the link:
http://www.stereophile.com/category/powerline-accessory-reviews/

So, just email me or post here. Whichever I see first, that's who I'm sending it to. This is just too good to keep it to myself. I'll check the threads and my mail for the next few days (today's December 31st at 12:20 a.m.)
May the fastest typist win!

No more calls! We have a WINNER!!!!
And I'll just ask the guy who I sent them to to post on this thread after he's had the fuse in about 24 hours. It should show some significant improvements by then unless the fuse (HiFi Tuning is the manufacturer, and it cost around $37.95) is oriented wrong. I'm not sure if only the top level (the "Supreme" model, which is built like the Mundorf, is directional, but I advised him that, if it didn't sound right to his ears, to turn the fuse (it has an arrow on the body) in the other direction and see if it makes a difference.
Frankly, I'd NEVER go back to the fuse supplied with my equipment. This fuse has made it so easy to differentiate between "fuzziness" that's on a recording and what may be the equipment ahead of it (I have it in the Hurricane amps, remember). Of course, my First Sound doesn't have a fuse in it: I called the designer, Emannuel Go, to ask if there was a fuse in the power supply and he replied there wasn't. (I was disappointed: these days, I want to put fuses in EVERYthing!). So, that eliminates having to open the power supply.
You really ought to try SOMEbody's fuse, guys. Even if it's a $10 model (I don't know who makes those, but that's not the point: the fuse DOES make a difference in the purity of the sound), you should hear SOME improvement over the .50 fuse that comes with the model.

There is a difference between the two camps.

One side, called the "believers" have actually used the "product" that is being discussed in his system and has drawn his conclusions.

The other side has not.
This side, the measurements types,who put their trust in the scientific method, don't even adhere to their own priciples.
They don't experiment and try the gear in question.
They refuse to do so.

Which I think makes them more of a "believer" than the ones who have actually expeience with the product.
Their beliefs are not based on the most fundamental tenant of scientific theory, and that is the experiment.

Where would we be today if everyone with a scientific leaning never bothered to try anything new.Refused to experiment.
No new scientific breakthroughs, no furthering of knowledge if one limits themselves to just living their lives based on what's already been done and blanket acceptance that there's nothing new under the sun, that we've been there done that.

This is what sets the two camps apart and it's ironic that the "believers" seem to be more scientific than the non believers.
They do the experiemnt and reach a conclusion.

Years ago I could have scoffed at what Aczel said.
But I didn't, I was curious, I made DIY fuses or bypassed the fuse.

I enjoyed better sound and never had any mishaps with gear.

Then when the upgraded fuses came out 20 or more years later I tried them.
It wasn't a belief or faith system that led me to them it was experience and that came from experience with what fuses do to the sound.Experience of twenty years of running without fuses.
I should add that I never left any gear on during my fuseless years 24/7.

Were the new boutique fuses better than bypassing or diy?
Perhaps not, but I sleep better at nite and my sound is not degraded by a cheap stock one buck fuse.

No the two sides have nothing in common least of all science.

Gbmcleod,

I *love * a guy who puts his money where his mouth is! Plus it's fun to see what happens. Thanks for doing this.

Sure, Vhiner.
My intent was to allow someone with no money spent the opportunity to post his own impressions, free of the need to prove he spent his money "wisely." This way, the other poster can say it sounded like crap if he likes. It wouldn't deter me one iota, now that I've, as Lacee stated, done the experiment. It's not as though I have stock in the HiFi fuses or anything.

We all benefit if we use wisdom as our guide. To quote Einstein: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

Fantastic quote!

I only wished they had these Nano-Liquid fuses many years ago when I first got in this hobby !! These fuses are the REAL DEAL !...

First I want to thank Glenn for his generous offer on giving away a free HiFi Tuning fuse that I decided to grab for a couple of reasons.
I posted a few pages back that I had bought these fuses and almost heard a difference. Well, I realized that my system now is much more resolving than it was when I first bought the fuse a few years ago. That being said, I wanted to see if my newest system would show the HiFi fuses off.
I can safely say that there was quite a bit more clarity and lively-ness with the new fuse.
More energy throughout the band width. I was quite surprised at the results.
I wasn't expecting to here any improvement.
It wasn't as large as a power cord swap, but it was audible to myself and a close friend whom is also an audiophile.
I guess my system wasn't a resolving enough system at the time to hear a change.
But now? I'll be buying a new fuse for all of my components.
Again.... Thank you Glenn for extending a generous gift to a nay sayer and with an open mind, I have gotten a step forward in my system.

I've dad very positive results replacing the stock fuses in my ARC D-300 amp and Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 pre-amp with the ceramic body, gold-plated capped versions from HiFi Tuning--a German manufacturer. I can't explain the science, but since the fuse is the first thing your current passes through as it enters your equipment, upgrading does seem to improve the sound. It's not a revolutionary, knock-your-ears off improvement, obviously, but well worth the $30 or so each fuse costs--or so it seems to my ears. Call me nuts, but I even think the sound improves with time... Maybe fuses need to burn in just as cables do. One word of caution, however: Some manufacturers (ARC being one of them) advise against it because of questions about whether these imported fuses are up to UL-approved specs. When I queried an engineer at ARC about it, he conceded that they probably would improve the sound of my amp, but said the warranty would be voided if the fuse failed to protect the equipment. I know of no one who has had that problem and all the dealers I've dealt with highly recommend them. Still, it's use at your own risk (at least with ARC). Hope this helps.

The least expensive fuse upgrade is flipping all existing fuses in the system around - one fuse at a time - and listening to how the direction of each fuse affects the sound. Even for fuses that have been in the system a very long time. There's a 50 percent chance that a given fuse was originally inserted in the "right" direction.