I can tell you from painful expereience that the HiFi Supreme fuses will blow if you place a .5 amp fuse in a 5 amp slot.
No fireworks, and no ill affects to the gear it was protecting.
Words to the wise,never do a fuse swap in less than adequate lighting late at nite and without checking the tiny print on the end caps. |
Lacee,
Good decisions *do* tend to have a cummulative effect. Like you, I tend to stick with what works and repeat it...until something better comes along. The nano fuses scare me a bit, what with the liquid and all....but I'm eager to hear from someone who's taken the time to compare them to the Supremes....that and a little time to find out what happens if they ever blow. ;-) |
How would that power cord sound now that you've got the fuse?
This is the point that a lot of folks miss, and some of my friends fall into the category of folks who expect one upgrade to transform the entire system.
Nite and day transformations seldom occur as you move up the food chain in this hobby.
Things get to a certain level and the differences a single tweek like one power cord can make are not always game changing, so folks give up and cry snake oil.
I've found that you have to treat every component as eligeable for tweaking.
That means do all the fuses, do all the same upgraded power cords, IC, etc., and if you can run dedicated lines and use upscale power conditioning go for it.
I am especially pleased with the results when you isolate the cd player on it's own line.
There is less one dimensional, flat sound,you start to notice more distinctions around the instruments, more space if you will.
Tweaking the power cords and fuses then makes these upgrades more noticeable.
You get out of this hobby what you put into it.
If you really want to hear the music,all of the music, you need to make your components work the way they were designed to,at their optimum capacity.
You can't be complacent or lazy,just spinning some discs is fine,if all you want is a few minutes of musical entertainment.
When you sweat the details you reap the benefits and a few minutes turns into hours of musical bliss.
The better the system ,the less you feel like finding something to do as you listen.
The music takes over and demands your full attention, and that's not a hard thing for it to do when it's tweeked.
That's when the system as a whole sounds like you just replaced all the electronics with more expensive ones, when in fact all you've changed are some power products. |
Lacee,
I know what you mean about more expensive upgrades not equaling the Supreme fuses....bought a $500 power cord once that didn't come close. |
I just popped in two 5A slo blo HiFi Supremes in my old Acoustat tube servo amps.
The two 1/2 amp fast blos are on back order,but even with the job half done,the sound has improved.
Hard to describe to those who haven't experienced it,and when you try the best you can say is that things just improve in all areas.
Next up is my cd player,but it is costly,Nano fuse is tempting, but I've had such good sound with the Supremes I hate to use anything but them,if only for consistency.
When done that's 9 new fuses so that's about a $1000.00 investment in fuses.
I can hear the riddicule,but it doesn't faze me.
I've experience with other tweeks costing as much or more that haven't been as positive as the fuse upgrades.
And when it comes to swapping tubes or interconnects looking for the big improvement, most times they fail to live up to expectations,so you keep investing in those same tweeks, over and over.
To me a one time investment of $90.00 on a fuse doesn't seem foolish.
But for it not to appear foolish, you have to try it for yourself. |
I've tried it and it made a difference. It made my system more open, faster, articulate, tighter bass and more fluid treble. Listening to familiar music netted new details unheard before. I've tried it first on preamp and heard the change immediately. After that I changed the ones in the amplifiers. The difference became more obvious. Same presentation but more obvious to hear. I don't have golden ears but in my opinion a revealing system.
Changing fuse direction also changed the sound. This time it lost the openness and became darker. Bass became rounder, less detail overall but still better than stock (Bussman ceramic). I guess it depends on what the listener likes. |
Noticed I used 'voltages' flagrantly. Although this is AC, the load, or draw, is presumably directional - So I should have said load. |
I have a theory on fuse directionality...I installed the HiFi Supreme fuses in my pre and then source. Because of all the direction controversy I was compelled to test this myself on the pre(CJ CT-5) where its installation made a pronounced difference. Upon switching directions shortly after initial install (A>B>A), I wasn't convinced of a difference - but after about a week I noticed a slight edginess in the treble - and recalled that others have noted this with 'wrong' direction installs. Reversing the direction this time did make the difference.
So my opinion is that the fuse has no intrinsic preferred direction, but that the high voltage 'tunneling' effect is what causes the difference in sound. Tunneling effect is reasonably well accepted for interconnects/speaker cables, and the voltages here are certainly higher so effects may be even more pronounced? If others have noted audible differences, or determined they were installed in the wrong direction, only after some hours of initial use - this would support the tunneling theory. Any better ideas?
Sorry if someone else posed a similar thought - there are too many 'fuse' posts to read thru.
AJ |
Has anyone else tried the new Audio Magic Nano Fuses?
I have the classic Hifi Tuning fuses in my Magnepan 1.7's. These make a huge difference vs. stock. Much better details, more attack, tames top end harshness and opens up the soundstange. I would say this is a must for the 1.7's! I have recently put in a new Supreme fuse into my NAD M3's pre-amp section. Wow, huge difference. The soundstage extends much deeper in the room and instruments are now seperated and easy to listen to. The effect was mostly on the top end and overall the amp simply sounds much more powerful. I tried putting silverstars in the amp section of the NAD, but the top-end overwhelmed the mid-range. I would like to attempt to replace the classic fuses I have in the Magnepan's with the new audio magic fuses or furutech. Does anyone know which fuse has the smoothest top end, with a balanced mid-range? |
I went ahead and purchased the Supreme fuse for my CDP. I had a gold HiFi fuse in it and the new fuse was much better.
More open and airy in the soundstage. The highs are more extended and very smooth. The speed and attack increased also. The bass has a slight bit more energy but not as much bloat as before.
All in all I'm very pleased. |
And....hereeeee's ...Glennie!
Wow, I'm really becoming addicted to the HiFi fuses.
Just for the fun of it (and because I KNOW what the do to the sound), I changed the fuse in the PS Audio Power Plant 300 about 10 minutes ago. I shall attempt to remain sanguine about the improvement.
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! ...well, I sure failed that!!
Really, guys and ladies (and others, as Anna Russell would say): you really have to buck up here and change yer damn fuses and quit griping that "a fuse can't POSSIBLY make a difference. It does.
What surprised me is what DID change and what DIDN'T change.
The "air" in the rear layers of the orchestra -- or maybe I should just say the "ambience" in the rear layers became significantly more noticeable. Perhaps the better fuse is allowing the Power Plant to be even clearer than it was (I'll leave it to the technical-minded to explain that). And the brass are surging forth both more powerfully, and more distinctly separated from each other (whereas before, they were a bit congealed). What did NOT improve is the string section, which actually is making me check my tubes in the First Sound preamp. Fortunately, I have spare Amperex 6922s, so I can tell tomorrow morning. I'm leaving the Power Plant running all night to break in. (I think it took around 5 hours for the fuses to really cook in "well," whatever that means. To me, it means the difference between the moment I turned the amps on (the first place I put them and listened) and the identifiable changes 8 hours later (which means when I arise tomorrow, er...today, at 8 a.m., I should hear a difference.
Back to the strings: this is a Deutsche Grammophon issue of Jean Sibelius' Finlandia [413 755-2]. I thought the strings were nice, but with the new fuses, it's clear they're not the best rendering of strings I've heard. They're not bad, just...edge in spots. Fascinatingly enough, the brass improved quite a bit, which usually means better mid bass renderings (and the brass do sound more golden-ish and simultaneously less "biting" (read: harsh) in their upper midrange frequencies). And the oboe now has more body to it, and I didn't even give the 'Canes time to warm up, because it was so late when I began listening, almost midnight.
Nonetheless, the fuses are now in the Power Plant and the Hurricanes and there's no disputing the quality of the improvement in sound. I can understand some folks saying $37 for fuses is absurd, but it makes a greater improvement than a high-quality outlet, or cleaning the CD.
Hey, it's on you if you'd rather gripe than check it out. But MAN, does it ever sound better. And I would imagine those of you with very high-quality systems (such as the guy who changed the fuse in high Magnepan 1.7s on another thread and went apes***) will hear it instantly. You'll be lucky, if you hit "play" on your cd player while walking to the listening chair, to actually REACH the listening chair without turning around slowly in disbelief. |
I recently tried an Acme fuse in my Pass Labs XA30.5 amp and heard in immediate improvement. I wouldn't say it was a significant improvement, but not a subtle one either. At first I heard more high end extension. The next day I heard an extension in the bass and on the third day the fuse settled in. Now I hear more clarity over the whole sound spectrum.
For $17.50 shipped, it is a no brainer. I ordered another Acme fuse for my Placette active preamp. Should arrive soon. |
The "Stock Fuse" is the.. Weakest Link |
In spite of the four pages of controversy, a consensus does emerge over time. Because of posts from folks like Glenn and Lacee, people are having more fun and enjoying more music. Pretty cool when a measly $50 fuse can make so many people happy. |
Gbmcleod -
I somehow just happened upon your post of 12-30-11. Your experience is almost word for word what mine has been going from the stock fuse to a HiFi Tuning Supreme fuse with my Simaudio 600i amp., solid state no less. The change was immediately noted for the better. After the first few hours or so it was obvious that the UF had expanded, and with more detail. Overall, there was a greater sense of ease to the music. It was smoother (less grain), yet more detailed.
I have used Furutech fuses in the past. With the digital players (some midfi, some pretty resolving) I have had, I found them to always improve the UF, provide better detail and smooth the music out. I just replaced the 2 fuses in the Sony 5400es I have with 2 Furutechs and the changes were as mentioned above. I have not tried other brands. |
Wow, after 4 pages of all this about fuses, I am really beginning to wonder...it is so simple guys. If it makes a difference, then it does, if it doesn't or you don't care to investigate, then leave it alone. Why all the fuss and bother?
The reason that we will never be 100% accurate with weather prediction is that we can never measure all the variables that make it up, ahead of the event. Even if we have a 10 mile on a side cube, with sensors at 1 ft intervals, we would still not have enough data to be able to predict what will happen becasue all the points in between the 1 ft interces would not be measured.
Music is an art form in the ear of the beholder. Even if at worst there is a placebo effect, it can still be worth the trouble to use high end fuses so as to achieve a positive result.
Time we get off our high horses and start enjoying this hobby, aoh yeah, and the music (remember that word?) again eh? |
Nobody sways or converts?
That's not correct.
Anyone who switched out a cheap stock fuse for an upgraded one will never switch back to the way it was.So they've been converted.
There's no going back for us,whereas some folks aren't wiling to go forward.
No matter if the upgraded fuse was only ten cents, I am certain the naysayers wouldn't buy one.
Simple things like replacing a fuse,don't require that you need and electrical engineering degree.
Perhaps that's part of it.
It's too simple! |
Zman:
We all love music, and sometimes, it takes someone holding out their hand and saying, take my hand, I won't let you down.
I believed in the HiFi fuses enough that I wanted someone else to experience them without having to lose something.
Conversely, I should point out what you told me when you wrote me, because it turned out you were correct in your statement:
the fuses' arrow doesn't necessarily mean the direction to turn it. I pointed it backwards (as in, it would shoot OUT of the back of amp and into the wall BEHIND the speakers, instead of the way I orignally had it pointed, which was, towards the listening chair) and MAN, did the sound change.
I had written Ken at HiFi Tuning, and he said, nope, don't worry about which way it goes: you'll hear the difference immediately - and I DID. But you got me started. So, to anyone buying it: try the fuse with the arrow pointed towards in both directions and you'll hear which way is best. And you'll hear it so immediately, you'll think you've taken peyote (mushrooms) or some other psychedelic. I was surprised I heard it (and I was skeptical I WOULD hear it, as Ken said I would, but heck, I'm a mad scientist: I try EVERYTHING!). And I heard it. I kept looking around the room, saying, "Okay, who's the wise guy that changed the sound like that? Is there an invisible witch in the room?!?"
Geez.
I'm glad for the corroboration. Who'd have thunk it?!?!? First it was line conditioners (the Tice started the revolution), then power cords, then...fuses??????? What's the world coming to???
And Vhiner, you're probably right, buy one thing about the Hurricanes: if you make a change in your system, they'll let you know about it. I know some people want uber-resolution above all, but I want musical resolution: more microdynamics, more musical resolution, more MUSIC(!) he said, as he swooned away into Dance Macabre... |
I've had the Audio Magic fuses in my Magnepan 3.7's for about a week now. They gave me an immediate and obvious reduction in grain. Very nice! Next up, fuses for my Cary amps and ModWright Sony. |
The least expensive fuse upgrade is flipping all existing fuses in the system around - one fuse at a time - and listening to how the direction of each fuse affects the sound. Even for fuses that have been in the system a very long time. There's a 50 percent chance that a given fuse was originally inserted in the "right" direction. |
I've dad very positive results replacing the stock fuses in my ARC D-300 amp and Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 pre-amp with the ceramic body, gold-plated capped versions from HiFi Tuning--a German manufacturer. I can't explain the science, but since the fuse is the first thing your current passes through as it enters your equipment, upgrading does seem to improve the sound. It's not a revolutionary, knock-your-ears off improvement, obviously, but well worth the $30 or so each fuse costs--or so it seems to my ears. Call me nuts, but I even think the sound improves with time... Maybe fuses need to burn in just as cables do. One word of caution, however: Some manufacturers (ARC being one of them) advise against it because of questions about whether these imported fuses are up to UL-approved specs. When I queried an engineer at ARC about it, he conceded that they probably would improve the sound of my amp, but said the warranty would be voided if the fuse failed to protect the equipment. I know of no one who has had that problem and all the dealers I've dealt with highly recommend them. Still, it's use at your own risk (at least with ARC). Hope this helps. |
First I want to thank Glenn for his generous offer on giving away a free HiFi Tuning fuse that I decided to grab for a couple of reasons.
I posted a few pages back that I had bought these fuses and almost heard a difference. Well, I realized that my system now is much more resolving than it was when I first bought the fuse a few years ago. That being said, I wanted to see if my newest system would show the HiFi fuses off.
I can safely say that there was quite a bit more clarity and lively-ness with the new fuse.
More energy throughout the band width. I was quite surprised at the results.
I wasn't expecting to here any improvement.
It wasn't as large as a power cord swap, but it was audible to myself and a close friend whom is also an audiophile.
I guess my system wasn't a resolving enough system at the time to hear a change.
But now? I'll be buying a new fuse for all of my components.
Again.... Thank you Glenn for extending a generous gift to a nay sayer and with an open mind, I have gotten a step forward in my system. |
I only wished they had these Nano-Liquid fuses many years ago when I first got in this hobby !! These fuses are the REAL DEAL !... |
|
Sure, Vhiner.
My intent was to allow someone with no money spent the opportunity to post his own impressions, free of the need to prove he spent his money "wisely." This way, the other poster can say it sounded like crap if he likes. It wouldn't deter me one iota, now that I've, as Lacee stated, done the experiment. It's not as though I have stock in the HiFi fuses or anything.
We all benefit if we use wisdom as our guide. To quote Einstein: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." |
Gbmcleod,
I *love * a guy who puts his money where his mouth is! Plus it's fun to see what happens. Thanks for doing this. |
There is a difference between the two camps.
One side, called the "believers" have actually used the "product" that is being discussed in his system and has drawn his conclusions.
The other side has not.
This side, the measurements types,who put their trust in the scientific method, don't even adhere to their own priciples.
They don't experiment and try the gear in question.
They refuse to do so.
Which I think makes them more of a "believer" than the ones who have actually expeience with the product.
Their beliefs are not based on the most fundamental tenant of scientific theory, and that is the experiment.
Where would we be today if everyone with a scientific leaning never bothered to try anything new.Refused to experiment.
No new scientific breakthroughs, no furthering of knowledge if one limits themselves to just living their lives based on what's already been done and blanket acceptance that there's nothing new under the sun, that we've been there done that.
This is what sets the two camps apart and it's ironic that the "believers" seem to be more scientific than the non believers.
They do the experiemnt and reach a conclusion.
Years ago I could have scoffed at what Aczel said.
But I didn't, I was curious, I made DIY fuses or bypassed the fuse.
I enjoyed better sound and never had any mishaps with gear.
Then when the upgraded fuses came out 20 or more years later I tried them.
It wasn't a belief or faith system that led me to them it was experience and that came from experience with what fuses do to the sound.Experience of twenty years of running without fuses.
I should add that I never left any gear on during my fuseless years 24/7.
Were the new boutique fuses better than bypassing or diy?
Perhaps not, but I sleep better at nite and my sound is not degraded by a cheap stock one buck fuse.
No the two sides have nothing in common least of all science.
|
No more calls! We have a WINNER!!!!
And I'll just ask the guy who I sent them to to post on this thread after he's had the fuse in about 24 hours. It should show some significant improvements by then unless the fuse (HiFi Tuning is the manufacturer, and it cost around $37.95) is oriented wrong. I'm not sure if only the top level (the "Supreme" model, which is built like the Mundorf, is directional, but I advised him that, if it didn't sound right to his ears, to turn the fuse (it has an arrow on the body) in the other direction and see if it makes a difference.
Frankly, I'd NEVER go back to the fuse supplied with my equipment. This fuse has made it so easy to differentiate between "fuzziness" that's on a recording and what may be the equipment ahead of it (I have it in the Hurricane amps, remember). Of course, my First Sound doesn't have a fuse in it: I called the designer, Emannuel Go, to ask if there was a fuse in the power supply and he replied there wasn't. (I was disappointed: these days, I want to put fuses in EVERYthing!). So, that eliminates having to open the power supply.
You really ought to try SOMEbody's fuse, guys. Even if it's a $10 model (I don't know who makes those, but that's not the point: the fuse DOES make a difference in the purity of the sound), you should hear SOME improvement over the .50 fuse that comes with the model. |
Goodness Gracious, I done got me a case of the Vapors!!
It's only about 20 minutes since my last post, but I had to come out of the room, 'cuz those Hurricanes done heated it up something fierce and I just cain't turn 'em off. It done sounded too good! (And before anyone complains I'm un-pc, I'm a 62 year-old Black man and the way I'm feelin' right now, I couldn't care less that I'm coming across as giddy as Butterly McQueen!). G**damn!
So, lets make this easy. I have two fuses left, and I doubt I'll need 'em. Anyone who needs a 10 amp fuse (A Hurricane owner, maybe) can email me : mcbrion@aol.com. I'll GIVE you the fuse for free. That way, you can hear what I (and Lacee) can hear. I'll even pay the postage.
Just as a furthur note: between the time I left the room, an hour ago, and now, the separation of instruments has improved and I noticed, in particular, when the piccolo blows in Cut 2, 2:13 into the cut (the Mercury Living Presence CD of the Rites of Spring (Mercury 434 331-2), the metallic bite is there, but there's no ringing riding the harmonics: it's just a clean, clear take-your-head-off piping hot note! Usually, when I've heard it, there's an extra "zing" to it, but not this time.
So, even though it's only 1 fuse, if you use a 10 AMP fuse, post here or email me. First one wins.
I'm really thrilled that such a stupid little change could effect such a significant improvement in sound. It's not like I was looking for it. I just happened to be perusing Stereophile's articles and went thru the Powerline Accessories section and saw Fremer commenting on them. So I read it. It piqued my interest and I read it and ordered two fuses immediately. (it was only $75.00 for both plus shipping). Here's the link: read it for yourself. And I think we can assume Fremer, big mouth that he is (I'm one, too) is not shilling for ANYone.
Here's the link:
http://www.stereophile.com/category/powerline-accessory-reviews/
So, just email me or post here. Whichever I see first, that's who I'm sending it to. This is just too good to keep it to myself. I'll check the threads and my mail for the next few days (today's December 31st at 12:20 a.m.)
May the fastest typist win! |
I bought the HiFi Tuning Fuse - the $37.95 ones (basic ones, I assume). I just got them two days ago.
After only 30 hours, I am quite astounded at the improvements they afford my ASL Hurricanes and hence, the entire system.. I'd spoken to Tosh Goka, who said he didn't hear much difference. But having been a detective, I like to try things for myself.
Welll....they DO have to break in - at least a few hours. At first (meaning as soon as I turned the amps on) the changes I thought I could detect were very subtle, such as a cleaner, less glaring sound. That was clear but subtle and this was with almost no break in. Today a "Supreme" fuse arrived from Music Direct. Apparently, the Supreme version is similar in its construction to the Mundorf Silver/Gold capacitors. I wouldn't know.
I had the less expensive ones on both amps yesterday and, as I said, I DID hear a difference, but had to strain a little. After 24 hours, no strain is needed. The changes are obvious: transients have more leading edge, which enhances the sense of separation of individual instruments, and even the imaging improved (and Hurricanes do NOT need assistance in that category).
When I put in the Supreme on one amp I held my breath: I mean, who wants to experience disapointment. I wouldn't let myself expect much, but, by golly, they're changing by the hour. I would assume the first fuse, which had been going straight for 30 hours (left the amps on playing music) is ahead of its "Supreme" brother (or sister, if you will) in making the music sound like...music.
It also seems -- and I say seems -- to have increased the upper frequencies on the Hurricanes a bit, so that, instead of feeling like you're in a room with only 75 watt bulbs, it's now a room with 85 watt bulbs (which one could do with a rheostat in degrees).
I'm surprised you guys spend so much time doubting instead of doing the empirical thing, like getting one and putting it in your equipment and then playing the equipment for 48 hours straight. You'll hear it. I'll have to write Tosh and suggest he try it again.
The easiest thing to hear is the lessening of grain. And transients have less of a "burr" on them (e.g. violins drawn against the bows sound cleaner and sweeter than before the fuse change).
I put on the Leonard Bernstein recording of The Rites of Spring, an absolutely HORRIBLE recording - which is why I used it: anything that could make it sound better was either euphonic or just plain good - but either way, it would be an improvement, sonically speaking. Pre-fuses: Just a mishmash of instruments jammed together. Only the loudest instruments or the ones in front of the stage could be distinguished (on my system). But today, even though I had the "basic gold" ones on both amps, when I got up and well into the music room, I could tell the difference in the recording. It was starting to make sense, instead of the wall-of-sound it threw up prior to the fuse change. When I put the Supreme in, and played it again, it sounded...musical (well, as musical as the Rites of Spring can sound. Which isn't very, but it became entirely more listenable, meaning I was pulled into listening to the first 10 cuts before I stopped the CD.
Pre-fuse: I'd listen to one cut, and start jumping around to see if I wanted to listen to any other cuts. Just wasn't interested. Now, I find myself highly attentive.
Equipment:
First Sound Deluxe MK II, ASL Hurricanes, Hale Revelation 3s, Arcam FMJ23, Nordost Quattro Fil interconnects, Shunyata Andromeda speaker cable, Shunyata Python CX power cords, Quantum conditioner with QX4 units, Nordost Sort Kones (Brass under preamp, Ceramic under amps), Tube Traps Galore.
With the fuses in the system, it is very easy to hear when a change in the orientation of a tube trap is killing the sound. Of course, I could hear it before (my room has ASC's Wall Damp Treatment (resilient channel and squares of wall damps between two layers of drywall), but now it's so EASY to hear it.
I would rather someone contribute when they actually KNOW what they're talking about, then to simply post to prove Ivor Tiefenbrun's statement, "If you haven't hear it, you DON'T have an opinion."
You should just try it instead of making yourself feel superior for not falling for another "snake oil" get-his-money-before-he-knows-what-hit-him "scheme."
These actually work.
Sorry, I gotta go. I've been watching tv for an hour and I'm DYING to "hear" what else has improved! |
Hifisoundguy,
Thanks so much for sharing your experience with the nano-liquids. I've pretty much decided to pull the trigger on some for my Maggies. As I said earlier, I've learned from experience not to blow off the stuff from Audio Magic. |
Brownsfan, I just try out one of these Audio Magic Nano-Liquid fuses for my Yamaha a-s2000 solid-state integrated amp and this fuse made my amp sound very..very tube-like !!.. These fuses are AMAZING !!
THESE ARE A MUST TRY FUSE FOR ALL SOLID-STATE OWNERS !!... |
Sounds like I was preaching to the choir. Happy listening! |
Rodman,yes it is very easy to do,and when done, it's also easy to hear the improvement with the fuse out of the link. |
Mr L- re: Maggies and fuses. It's not difficult(in the least), to remove the x-over of a Maggie and bypass the fuse holder completely, eliminating the extraneous connections. Simple as removing a wire from one side of the holder and soldering it to the other. |
Lacee
I have been using magnets instead of fuses as suggested by Rick Schultz for the last 5 years. Rick and I shared some common experience in amp layout, speaker design, resonance control and core ideas for cables. Rick's turn on of magnets were his totally.
The playback with the magnets installed was so bombastic and dramatic over the standard fuses treated with AVM...I never ventured out to find anything better. Granted that last statement doesn't normally describe my adventures in audio but the magnet addition was like I added a sub or two as the noise floor dropped and the resolution went thru my basement ceiling.
Tom |
Magnets!
Now that's interesting.
Could you add some more info?
When I was into the DIY replacement fuses I could hear the difference in sound between solid core copper and stranded copper wire.
Please elaborate on what the magnets bring to the party, and where you sourced them. |
Replaced all the fuses in my system sometime back with neodymium magnets..No fires..only thing that glows is much more music. Tom |
Way back when, Peter Aczel had a magazine called the Audio Critic.
I subscribed to it, as I did to Stereophile and TAS.
Back in the mid 1980's I think, he ran an article about how damaging speaker protection fuses were to the sound of whatever they were used with.
He suggested bypassing them altogether , using speakewire or partialally clad solid copper wire.
Magnepan owners were the first to reap the benefits.
I am not surprised that younger Maggie owners haven't caught wind of this, because over the years Peter Aczel has become the poster boy against things that are purported to make an improvement.He is the great Myth buster to a lot of folks.
But have no doubt,back in the old days when he was young enough to hear differences, he was spot on about speaker fuses.
I took him up on his stand and until the onset of better made although prohibitively expensive for some($60. to $85.00)I used different chunks of solid copper and threw the cheap $1.00 fuses into the garbage where they belong.
Yes a fuse is just a fuse and it's only purpose in life is to blow if there is a fault somewhere in the system.
Except of course it's not that simple.
It's a sonic bottleneck that even old Pete heard back in the day.
So,is it that great a stretch to reason that if a speaker fuse degrades the sound that fuses in general degrade the sound wherever they are used?
Afterall until the high priced ones came around, most were the garden variety that the manufacturer had to throw into the amp so it would pass code.So most everyone had the same fuse, albeit in a few different configurations based on the cicuit.
Then after 30 years someone got wise and decided to market a better made fuse, unfortunately it costs more than the $1.75 some folks feel it should cost.
I am not saying that the price is a steal or a ripp off.
But someone is making money off the $1.00 fuse aren't they?
To me the deal was done years ago, fuses degrade the sound.
No fuse or a DIY bypass(try one in the Maggies)is better than the cheap ones that come with most gear.
I used to use solid copper and threw out the old stock fuse in all my gear, amps included.
I was lucky and never had a failure, fire or malfunction.
When the designer fuses came out I bought the Iso Cleans and after hearing what they did on my power amps I upgraded all my gear to them.
Now I use the HIFI Supremes,a bit more expensive, but I can afford to enjoy the improvement they make.
When you think about how much money is wasted on swapping out amps, speakers, interconnects, speaker wires, etc,the cost of a fuse that can improve your sound really isn't that much as things go in this hobby.
Some people have no qualms about spending big bucks on NOS tubes that may or may not improve your system and they may be of questionable vintage and quality.And those folks buy them on faith or word of mouth.
And yet the poor little upscale fuse continues to take a backseat.
I know I will never convince the folks who know the fuse can't make a difference, or convince those who think that $60.00 is akin to shutting the door on their kids education.
All I can say is that what Peter Aczel said back in the 80's still applies today, fuses degrade the sound.It's not fiction to me, it's been a fact.
The great thing is that now I get the added protection of a fuse without the degraded sound. |
Has anyone actually tried the $60 Audio magic fuses? That is a lot of money for a fuse, but I've learned by experience to not dismiss a priori the AM stuff. I have purchased a number of items from AM over the years, from power conditioners, to interconnects, to cryo'ed duplexes, an found it all to be an exceptional value. I've gotten more than my moneys worth out of the investment, So now, do i spring $500 to refuse my system? I'd like to try fuses for my maggies first, since the audio signal actually passes through those fuses. Sooner or later I'd like to give this a try, but it would be nice to hear from someone who has actually tried these fuses. |
I put off fuse exotica for as long as possible, but recently anted up $12 for an Acme cyro-treated silver ceramic fuse. This was very much worthwhile in a BAT tube amp and a "bargain" relative to $60. |
I think it's audio magic that a company can sell fuses for $60 each.
Here's $60.
Now you see it, now you don't. |
The Flat Earth Society newsletter ( yup, they still print paper) just came out...the latest article is about how nano particles cannot exceed the speed of light. Apparently this violates what the Society calls Einstein's Law. (which he called a theory, btw). Swiss researchers are undaunted. They just caused a nano particle to appear in two jars at the same time. No word from the Flat Earther's...they still can't believe there's land beyond the horizon. |
Audio Magic just came out with their all new Nano-Liquid Premium Fuses for $60 each |
It's great to see that you are going to take the plunge and try one of the fuses.
Although I am not familiar with any of the gear you will be using the fuse in,like all things in this hobby, YMMV.
With that in mind,the supreme fuses when used in amplifiers,are usually not hard to evaluate. |
Well....ps audio is shipping their PWD mk2 upgrade board with an "upgraded fuse". I believe it'll be a Critical Link.
I've spent too much time thinking about this whole fuse thing. Not even worth "wondering about" IMHO. Should have spent the $100 many thoughts ago and found out for myself. Just ordered a pair so the truth *in my mind* will soon be answered. Not sure why was so hesitant. Tried new/different IC's and PC's without a lot of prodding and research. Neither made any sense at the time but I approached them with an open mind......and learned something. We'll see what happens. The price of admission is small enough to make the risk/reward ratio look pretty darn good.
Plan on installing the fuses in my pwd before the upgrade kit arrives. Since the bridge firmware seems to effect SQ, I'll use my PWT as the source. Also plan on comparing PSA's Critical Link vs the Hi-Fi Supreme after the mk2 arrives and breaks in. Will try to report back with some thoughts. |
Just to add another bit of info.
I was glancing at the manual for the Vandersteen 3A speakers on another site, and low and behold Mr.V. says that fuses degrade the sound, avoid speakers that have them and amps that have speaker protection fuses.
He's speaking speaker fuses, but the key thing to remember is that "fuses degrade the sound" and I would add that wherever they are used, they will degrade the sound.Peter Aczel found that out 3 decades ago.
I remember when spiking speakers or components placed on tip toes for example was deemed voodoo and snake oil, also about 3 decades ago.
Perhaps in a few more years, upgraded fuses will join the other "snake oil" tweaks that have now become the norm. |
Lacee,
Your experience mirrors mine exactly. This hobby has never been more fun and these fuses are a welcome, budget-priced upgrade that helps me get the most music out of what I already own. The key word for me here is Music. I favor anything that helps me appreciate more of what I already enjoy. A friend of mine just put new fuse in his VTL 2.5 preamp and he's over the moon. More fun. What can be wrong with that? |
Very interesting different takes on the fuse uograde advice given by a real manufacturer.
That it has been regarded as a ploy to yet again rob the poor unsuspecting audiophile of his money is a sad statement about how so many folks who claim to be active in this hobby seem to percieve it.
You know the types, the ones who claim everything is suspect and snake oil.
But why do they care how or on what I and others spend our money?
I spend on things that make me enjoy the music more.
I wish I had more money to spend,I'd buy better amps and speakers and wires, more room tuning and power conditioners.
But I don't, and a lot of folks don't.
But the cost of an upgraded fuse isn't going to mean your kid can't get a college education or you have to take out a second mortgage.
It's something most folks can afford,and they work in my system, and for me that's just as well as getting a new amp etc.
I've been on the buy and sell merry go round for years.
It's been fun.
I learned a lot, assembled some real class A systems and now in my twilight years,I am enjoyng my latest system more than any of my previous ones, and my present system isn't anywhere near as exotic or expensive or as high end as the old ones were.
So what's the secret?
Doing things to upgrade the gear that I have, and that has mostly been investing in power products not new amps and speakers as I used to.
When you start on this road, which many are recluctant to do because of all the fear involved(danger Will Robinson,that looks like snake oil!)you realize how much we compromise the quality of our gear and never really hear how good it is.So we tire of the sound and move on to the next promise of a better tomorrow.
I wish I had some of the stuff i've sold over the years that I never really heard,because I never did anything about the power going to it.
So who cares if the fellow who invests in the new fuse takes that learning experience and applies it to other upgrades that will improve his enjoyment of his system and the music it serves?
Isn't that what this hobby is all about?
At least it was when I started out on this journey. |
Milpai - "My point was related to "generalization" that you make regarding the fuses or other upgrades. "
In my opinion, you can't generalize fuses with ic' or power cables or tubes or room acoustics upgrades or magic rocks or etc.. I think you have to look at each on it's own merit. If you feel I've lumped these things together then that is likely the result of poor writing on my end and is not the result of intent.
"But per you guys, audiophiles spend like crazy and go for expensive stuff. Does this at least make any sense to you that not all audiophiles have that mentality? "
Yes.
"On the same lines we DO hear the differences - which you claim do not exist. At least I tried a cable, which I did not like and simply returned. I would never make a statement about anything that I have not tried myself. That would be prejudice -isn't it?"
This concept was discussed on the first page of this thread and on this page as well, I don't have anything new to add.
Once more I would prefer to 'conveniently ' be done with this particular thread.
Happy listening. |
