Upgrading a CD/SACD player with integral DAC

Thanks for the heads up on the Audio Exchange having both the Luxman D-05u and Ruby. Maybe I'll take a drive up there to give them both a listen if they still do. It's a good three hour haul to get there but worth the effort.  Did you happen to do a comparative listen when you got your Luxman? And how do you like your D-o5u? 

Mike

Dave, thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry you had difficulties getting your Arcam repaired. I’ve had difficulty getting repairs done correctly on more than one occasion, which leads me to not want to take a chance on used equipment, or anything that can’t be returned under warranty. I’ll look into the Schitt and Yamaha lines you mention. Since that was a deciding factior for you what advantage do you find using balanced outputs? That’s something else I need to look into. Thanks for your recommendations.

Gimmeroc, apprecate the good word on the Luxmans. I have been satisfied with their 507 uX Mk2 integrated amp and imagine their CD players have the same build quality. I’m not concerned about MQA since I’m not planning on doing any streaming, only putting a CD in the tray and pressing the play button.

Sebrof, you should know what too much computer usage leads to. Haven’t you seen any of the Terminator movies? CD’s are about as futuristic as I’d like to get.

Mike (living happily in the past without a cell phone even)

The Luxman SACD players are all pretty good.  I have the D-08u in one system and the drive is really well made.  It does not do MQA if that is is important to you.  I am hearing that they will be making a change in the near future.  Maybe the DAC but also the drive since they are getting very expensive.
In a smaller system (more tube based) I have the Ayon CD35S which is still breaking in.  I like it as well.  At some point I will switch the two players to see how they handle different amps.

Good morning Skyscraper, not long ago I was in a similar situation, I had (still have, as a matter of fact) an Arcam UDP411 which I purchased used on the recommendation of a review and because I was looking for one machine to cover a lot of bases, Blu-ray video, and SACD along with red book.  I liked the sound a lot, a little toward the analog side for a CD player, whatever that worth as a description, but it had such technical problems.  Such as only playing discs when it felt like it. I had work done on it, but still the same issues for the most part. So I went looking and found a Yamaha Cd-s2100 for a very good price new. It does have an ESS dac in it, and it does have a slightly less analog sound than the Arcam. However, I find it to be a very good sounding unit. Mechanically I have no issues with it, but it does take it’s time loading discs after the tray is closed. It is SACD capable. Recently a friend lent me his Schitt Modi multibit, and I have to say I preferred the sound of the multibit dac ever so slightly over the ESS, but I can easily say it was preference, not a leap in quality overall. If I never get a separate dac, I could easily see myself happy with the dac in the Yamaha. I looked into, but never got the chance to audition the Marantz units mentioned in other posts, and the Ruby was a strong contender. But the Yamaha won out because of price and balanced outputs. I may look into a separate dac in the future, but for right now I’m digging the Yamaha for price/performance ratio. It is definitely the best player I’ve owned. It may be a discontinued model, which may be why I got the nice price, but I think Yamaha has replaced it with model which may be even better, but I’m sure, at a higher price point. I was also considering one of the used Esoteric models, but given my experience with the Arcam, I wanted to buy a new unit. 
Best wishes in the search, and a happy new year to all, 

Dave

Sebrof, I love collecting records and discs so much I don't think i'll ever get to streaming. I haunt the Amazon CD and Vinyl site, although it's not quite the same experience going to a record store was.

I don't steam at least by my definition which is using a site like Spotify, Qobuz, Amazon Music...
I play my CDs from a laptop. It's like having a 1,000 CD Carousel CD Player with all my CDs loaded. And I have bought more music (CDs and downloads) in the 3 months since I went digital than I have in the past 5 years (mostly vinyl).

I used DB Poweramp (~$30) to rip all my CDs FLAC to an external hard drive (2TB @ $90), USB connected to an old laptop running Windows 10.

I use JRiver Media Center (~$60) to play the files from the laptop via USB to the Marantz Ruby DAC. 

I use JRemote (~$10) on an old iPad to control playback on the laptop.

So now I fire up my laptop with the external HD, start JRiver MC, fire up JRemote on the iPad and viola, I pick and chose what I want to play.

I've also downloaded various levels of PCM HD and DSD files (My DAC can do DSD).

There are other programs and other ways to do this of course.

skyscraper

I am looking forward in reading about the players auditioned. Have fun!

Happy Listening!

Thanks you for recommending the Esoteric unit stereo5. I've added it to my list and have already read one positive review of it this morning.

Soix, appreciate your thoughts on a separate DAC. I'm datng myself, but I know little about them, so will track down some reviews about the RCR NOS and start to remedy that situation. Thank you. I'd like to find a good integrated solution if possible, as I'm trying to move away from separates due to the aforementioned ludicrous cost for decent cabling, but maybe the quality DAC you're talking about isn't available otherwise. I've definitely more research to do on this score. Thanks

Sebrof, I love collecting records and discs so much I don't think i'll ever get to streaming. I haunt the Amazon CD and Vinyl site, although it's not quite the same experience going to a record store was. 

Sounds like your Ruby's DAC is much to your liking. I was reading up on the Ruby, including it's DAC component  last night, among other models, with nothing but good reports on both the player and it's DAC. If I recall correctly the Ruby avoids using the ESS chip soix mentioned too. I've really got to learn more about DAC's. 

Mike

@soix ...................................My Esoteric UX-3 SACD Player has a BB PCM1704 R2R Ladder Dac and it also plays SACD. It is the best sounding player I have heard that I like. When I purchased it from Spearit Sound, Ralph (the owner) told me it was one of the top 3 sounding players. He was right. I much prefer the sound of my player than the others that use an ESS chip Or similar as it is more analog and fluid sounding.

When I started looking for a DAC I was looking for a CDP + DAC. Soon realized they were few and far between, so I looked at separate DACs. I was all set to buy a separate DAC when I stumbled upon the Ruby (SACD Player + DAC) I mentioned. I don’t regret the Ruby, but in hindsight the CDP part isn’t as important as I thought because I got up to speed with computer source within a week or two. I don’t play CDs, I use the Ruby as a DAC almost always. But it does make it easier when people come over with CDs, I can just pop them in vs. some friends with DACs that need to rip and transfer and what not.

Well, I’m in the separate DAC camp.  By requiring the DAC to be internal you’re limiting your choices significantly.  For example, as a vinyl guy you may like the sound of one of the growing number of R2R NOS DACs out there.  You won’t find those in a CD spinner, at least that I’m aware of.  I think Hifi Heaven offers a trial period where you could try something like the Metrum Onyx to see if this technology floats your boat.  People who love R2R NOS DACs LOVE them.  Add a reclocker like the Empirical Audio Syncro Mesh or Wyred4Sound Remedy and that’d still leave you with a nice chunk of change for a really nice digital cable (or two) before you reach the price of the Ruby KI.  R2R DACs don’t play SACDs, but after hearing the DAC you may not care anymore.  Just another thought.  Best of luck. 

That's a good price you paid for your Ruby. I purchased some speaker cables the same way about a year ago, which was real risky and probably kind of foolish with the cable market being what it is.  But luckily it worked out too. I don't know if I'd have the nerve to do it again with a CD/SACD player.

Thanks for describing the difference in performance between your Rega Apollo and your Ruby KI. My Marantz SA 8005 ran about what you you paid your Rega Apollo so maybe I'd see similar improvements. 

MIke

Sebrof, how do you like your Marantz Ruby KI? What player were you using previously, and what differences did you notice once you upgraded.

I love the Ruby.
Build quality is top notch, it's heavy and solid. The optical transport is quiet and seems to be solidly built as well. Aesthetically a nice looking unit for sure. 
Operationally I like it a lot, easy to use and pretty intuitive. The remote is nice and works well.
My only comparison is the Rega Apollo I was using before it (which is why I don't go on about how awesome it is, unlike so many folks on these forums...my pet peeve and I do feel better now). Compared to the ($1,000) Rega, the Ruby is better in pretty much every way: Clarity, bass, the soundstage is much wider and more open, etc. I don't regret buying it at all.
btw: I paid $2,800 for a new unit off eBay, not an authorized seller so I know I am taking a chance but hey, what the heck. I see he has another for $3,000 right now.

Sebrof, how do you like your Marantz Ruby KI? What player were you using previously, and what differences did you notice once you upgraded.

The price difference between the SA-Ki Ruby and the SA-10 is pretty significant at about $3000, so it would be interesting to know how closely the Ruby approaches the performance and sound of the SA-10. I’d really like to know how it would compare in performance to my current Marantz SA 8005. You would hope it would be a marked improvement, but you never know. Maybe someone here has compared both of them as well and could say. Thanks for your response.

Any other suggestions out there folks. Any and all would be welcome as I begin this research.

Mike

Marantz is an excellent recommendation. I'd love to hear from someone who's heard the Ruby K1 and SA-10 side by side; the Ruby may be the sweet spot.

I have the SA-KI Ruby. When I was researching I couldn't find any comparison to it vs. the SA-10. Even the specs of the two on the Marantz website are apples to oranges if you want to compare (IOW different specs are listed for each so hard to compare).

Physically they are almost identical except the 10 has balanced outs, the 10 has a copper shielding around the power transformer, the 10 has many filtering options where the Ruby has only 2. There may be others but I didn't uncover while researching.
 I can't imagine they sound very different but I dunno. Seems nobody else knows either.

Thanks for the recommends on the Luxmans, twoleftears. I'll look up the three you mentioned. I imagine they would synchronize well with my Luxman amp.

Some side by side comparisons would be helpful. Maybe I can find some reviews that do that.

Mike

Mahler, as I stated above "I purposely did not mention price point as I don’t know what price point would put the CD player into the performance range of the rest of my system components."   I am hoping some of you could recommend models that would fit in better with the above listed components, so I wouldn't have a "weak link" in the system, as someone described my Marantz SA 8005 in another thread. I'll figure out what I want to spend out of the list of possibilities you all recommend  along the way. I'm not a millionaire, but do want a CD/SACD player that would fit in the "neighborhood" of the components I do have. 

Stereo5, thank you for your recommendations. I am going to buy new, but will read up on the Esoteric models you mentioned. I did read a couple of reviews on the Ruby K1 SACD player mentioned by Jafant last night and have made that the first entry on the list of possibilities. 

I'd appreciate any more recommendations anyone else may have and will add your suggestions to my list of possible choices to research. Thanks.

Mike

If you are going to purchase new, the least expensive way would be to get the Marantz Ruby K1 SACD player.  If you want a better built and sounding player, one of the later models Esoteric SACD players purchased used would be the way to go.  I purchased a used Marantz SA8005 from The Music Room. It sounded ok but not in the same league as my Esoteric SACD player in my main system.  

I found the sound of the SA8005 to be uninvolving and felt the controls to feel cheap. I sold it here within a couple of months and purchased a McIntosh SACD player to match the rest of that system. I have had my Esoteric SACD player for 7 years and use it almost daily. The sound never ceases to amaze and delight me. 

What’s the budget?

Yes, it is. And I’d prefer whatever I upgrade to to have that capability also, even though I have no SACD’s to play. The Hegel Mohican I read only plays Redbooks CD’s for example, so that might, but not necessarily, rule that model out.

Mike

The Marantz SA 8005 is an SACD player.

I'll take a look at what Marantz offers Jafant. Thank you for the suggestion. I've not listened to other brands to appreciate the differences. If I remember I originally got the Marantz SA 8005 because it was recieving good reviews and Saul Marantz was one of the designers of my previous Dahlquist ?DQ-10 speakers, which provided decades of good service.

Are there any others you like or would recommend. I really am unsure how much more I should be investing in a better quality CD player too, so as to not be short-changing the rest of my system. Not that the current CD player doesn't sound good, but maybe a different one could sound a lot better and be more equitably paired with the rest of the components. More than one person here has pointed out it's the weak link in my system. It is a holdover from my last system, so they're probably right.

Mike