I'll take a look at what Marantz offers Jafant. Thank you for the suggestion. I've not listened to other brands to appreciate the differences. If I remember I originally got the Marantz SA 8005 because it was recieving good reviews and Saul Marantz was one of the designers of my previous Dahlquist ?DQ-10 speakers, which provided decades of good service.
Are there any others you like or would recommend. I really am unsure how much more I should be investing in a better quality CD player too, so as to not be short-changing the rest of my system. Not that the current CD player doesn't sound good, but maybe a different one could sound a lot better and be more equitably paired with the rest of the components. More than one person here has pointed out it's the weak link in my system. It is a holdover from my last system, so they're probably right.
Mike |
Yes, it is. And I’d prefer whatever I upgrade to to have that capability also, even though I have no SACD’s to play. The Hegel Mohican I read only plays Redbooks CD’s for example, so that might, but not necessarily, rule that model out.
Mike |
Mahler, as I stated above "I purposely did not mention price point as I don’t know what price point would put the CD player into the performance range of the rest of my system components." I am hoping some of you could recommend models that would fit in better with the above listed components, so I wouldn't have a "weak link" in the system, as someone described my Marantz SA 8005 in another thread. I'll figure out what I want to spend out of the list of possibilities you all recommend along the way. I'm not a millionaire, but do want a CD/SACD player that would fit in the "neighborhood" of the components I do have.
Stereo5, thank you for your recommendations. I am going to buy new, but will read up on the Esoteric models you mentioned. I did read a couple of reviews on the Ruby K1 SACD player mentioned by Jafant last night and have made that the first entry on the list of possibilities.
I'd appreciate any more recommendations anyone else may have and will add your suggestions to my list of possible choices to research. Thanks.
Mike |
Thanks for the recommends on the Luxmans, twoleftears. I'll look up the three you mentioned. I imagine they would synchronize well with my Luxman amp.
Some side by side comparisons would be helpful. Maybe I can find some reviews that do that.
Mike |
Sebrof, how do you like your Marantz Ruby KI? What player were you using previously, and what differences did you notice once you upgraded.
The price difference between the SA-Ki Ruby and the SA-10 is pretty significant at about $3000, so it would be interesting to know how closely the Ruby approaches the performance and sound of the SA-10. I’d really like to know how it would compare in performance to my current Marantz SA 8005. You would hope it would be a marked improvement, but you never know. Maybe someone here has compared both of them as well and could say. Thanks for your response.
Any other suggestions out there folks. Any and all would be welcome as I begin this research.
Mike |
That's a good price you paid for your Ruby. I purchased some speaker cables the same way about a year ago, which was real risky and probably kind of foolish with the cable market being what it is. But luckily it worked out too. I don't know if I'd have the nerve to do it again with a CD/SACD player.
Thanks for describing the difference in performance between your Rega Apollo and your Ruby KI. My Marantz SA 8005 ran about what you you paid your Rega Apollo so maybe I'd see similar improvements.
MIke |
Thanks you for recommending the Esoteric unit stereo5. I've added it to my list and have already read one positive review of it this morning.
Soix, appreciate your thoughts on a separate DAC. I'm datng myself, but I know little about them, so will track down some reviews about the RCR NOS and start to remedy that situation. Thank you. I'd like to find a good integrated solution if possible, as I'm trying to move away from separates due to the aforementioned ludicrous cost for decent cabling, but maybe the quality DAC you're talking about isn't available otherwise. I've definitely more research to do on this score. Thanks
Sebrof, I love collecting records and discs so much I don't think i'll ever get to streaming. I haunt the Amazon CD and Vinyl site, although it's not quite the same experience going to a record store was.
Sounds like your Ruby's DAC is much to your liking. I was reading up on the Ruby, including it's DAC component last night, among other models, with nothing but good reports on both the player and it's DAC. If I recall correctly the Ruby avoids using the ESS chip soix mentioned too. I've really got to learn more about DAC's.
Mike |
Dave, thanks for sharing your experience. Sorry you had difficulties getting your Arcam repaired. I’ve had difficulty getting repairs done correctly on more than one occasion, which leads me to not want to take a chance on used equipment, or anything that can’t be returned under warranty. I’ll look into the Schitt and Yamaha lines you mention. Since that was a deciding factior for you what advantage do you find using balanced outputs? That’s something else I need to look into. Thanks for your recommendations.
Gimmeroc, apprecate the good word on the Luxmans. I have been satisfied with their 507 uX Mk2 integrated amp and imagine their CD players have the same build quality. I’m not concerned about MQA since I’m not planning on doing any streaming, only putting a CD in the tray and pressing the play button.
Sebrof, you should know what too much computer usage leads to. Haven’t you seen any of the Terminator movies? CD’s are about as futuristic as I’d like to get.
Mike (living happily in the past without a cell phone even)
|
Thanks for the heads up on the Audio Exchange having both the Luxman D-05u and Ruby. Maybe I'll take a drive up there to give them both a listen if they still do. It's a good three hour haul to get there but worth the effort. Did you happen to do a comparative listen when you got your Luxman? And how do you like your D-o5u?
Mike |
I’ll definitely give them a ring first. I’ve made that trip enough times to do it again just for practice.. Come to think of it I’ve not been to Richmond since buying my Luxman 507 uX amp at Audio Exchange a year or so ago. I almost purchased a Marantz Ruby this morning from Music Direc,t as they had an open box (demo) unit for sale at $800 off. As it turned out they didn’t have one, but hadn’t removed the listing. Oh well, I know better than to be impulse buying anyway.
I’d like to hear them side by side, or an equivalent new Luxman model substituted for the D-o5u, so I’ll need to call around and see if anyone has both if Audio Exchange doesn’t. Maybe some place in DC would.
Mike |
Same to you Jafant, and many more.
Michael |
You’re no doubt right soix2. I did purchase the Marantz SA8005 for my old system. It’s the last holdover.
I have read some good things about the R2R DACs, but am really hesitant to buy a DAC as a separate. The extra cables to connect it in would have to be expensive and a complete waste of money when you don’t need them with an integrated CD player/DAC. That being said I would like to hear what that Metro Onyx R2R sounds like.
I’ll check if the local dealers in town have anything decent DACsI could demo. Unfortunately locally there isn’t much in the way of high end equipment. One dealer does have some used equipment, so there is at least a possibilty of him having a decent used DAC.
Dave, thanks for getting back to me on the balanced output connections. I’ve been meaning to learn about them.
Mike |
Thanks for your recommendation of the Marantz SA-11S3, stjm. I looked it up and read an Absolute Sound review of this player. The reviewer seemed to like it as much as you. I'd be interested in what differentiated the different Marantz CD players sound for you as you upgraded.
Mike |
Thanks for the advice soix. I’ve not been convinced of the efficacy of pricey cables, yet was afraid to go with inexpensive ones for for fear of denigrating the rest of my system, which I did pay dearly for. If I was independently wealthy I wouldn’t care. I’ll look up who carries the Metrum Onyx R2R NOS DAC and try to get a demo next time I’m in the big city. I appreciate your thoughts on this and input.
Mike |
Thank you very much, pettyofficer, for your detailed description on how your Marantz Ruby performs. That's just the kind of information that I'm looking for.. You got a good price on your's too. I will definitely audition one of the Ruby's when it's time to make a purchase. It's definitely on my short list to audition on my next trip to the big city. I'll try and audition both an SACD and Redbook versions of the same content to get a better idea of the differences you are hearing with SACD playback. Not owning a single SACD disc, I'm genuinely clueless on how they sound. Thanks again,
Mike |
Pettyofficer, I’m only going to purchase new equipment for the reasons you stated. I’ll see about tracking down the Diane Krall releases you mentioned and play them at home in either format, and take to them to any stores I go to to similarly demo the CD/SACD players on my short list. Thanks for the suggestion.
Mike |
meschi, several of you have mentioned the R2R DAC so far, so it is definitely on my radar. Thanks for your suggestion. Maybe I should think more about separates, although I have been trying to get away from them, evidenced by my using an integrated amp. But if the R2R DACs are so much better than the alternatives, I'll need to reconsider. To be sure I need to to hear one demoed.
Mahler, thanks for the mention of the Marantz 8005 rolling off the highs. I've been wondering what it's shortcomings are and have had no real basis for comparison. I am trying to keep things simple and would honestly be checking out the Hegel redbook only CD player if it wasn't made in China. I can see the advantages of having more capabilities, but honestly don't want to be investing in capabilities I probably won't ever use. Even a player having SACD capability is a stretch for me.
Mike |
Twoleftears, I’ve been coming to the same conclusion after re-reading everyone’s input. I still have to research the Bryston units, and got the impression from pettyofficers post the part situation for the Esoteric units, good as they might be, may be iffy.
Do you have any knowledge of how good the R2R multibit DAC may be? If it is greatly superior to what you can find in a CD/DAC combination unit, maybe I should consider going with separates even though I’d much prefer not to. Soix and others seem pretty impressed with them. They make a convincing case for at least checking them in spite of how much it would really annoy me to be spending more money on cables. More research in this regard is called for prior to auditioning units.
Thanks for the link too. I just now finished reading through that entire thread. A lot of interesting information there, not to mention interesting exposures of some pretty shifty manufacturing and product labeling practices.
Mike
|
Thank you again twoleftears. You’ve provided a wealth if information. I’ll look up the Simaudio and Bryston BCD offerings you mentioned too while further researching this topic.
Mike |
Well, they listed another open box Marantz Ruby KI CD player at Music Direct for $800 off list, so I took the plunge. Hopefully it will sound significantly better than my Marantz SA-8005. I was checking on the price of the Luxman D-05u, but Music Direct had it listed as no longer available, so I took another look at the Ruby KI on their site.. The 20% off on the Ruby’s list price was simply too hard to pass by. Now I’ve got to figure out how to sell the SA-8005. Thanks for all your help and sharing a lot of good ideas, And so abruptly ends another hi-fi shopping adventure, hopefully my last for a while. I wonder how long it will take for the Ruby to burn in and show it’s true colors. Any guesses? Pettyofficer said it took quite a while. My Magico A3's are only now starting to reveal their true identity and I've had them since this past Spring. Take care all and again thanks so much. I'm still going to to find one of those R2R DACS to listen to as they piqued my interest too.
Mike |
Thank you sebrof and jafant. Once the new Ruby CD/SACD gets burnt in a bit I'll let you all know how it's doing in contrast with the 8005. I sure hope it sounds better.
Mike |
Nice to hear from you again pettyofficer. Funny you mentioned those blue lights. Is there a switch to turn them off? There's a small blue LED light on my Shunyata Hydra Denali Power Conditioner that's like an eye piercing strobe light. God knows what they were thinking. When I saw the Ruby had more blue lights, first thought was here we go again. There's no way to turn the Hydra Denali's off, but you implied in your post you could turn the Ruby's off, so you've got my hopes up. If there is a switch those blue lights will never see the light of day.
Thanks for providing a guideline on the amount of to to burn the CD player in. That's way less than my Magico A3 speakers which take 400 hours, if I'm remembering correctly. This will hopefully be the last component to purchase so collecting CD's should be all that's left to do, which seems to be your preference as well. I'll have to get a few SACDs to try out to see what difference they make.Can any of those be had at less than an arm and a leg? There are a lot of high quality fifties jazz reissues now were you can get up to eight good quality Redbook discs at a shot for ten to twenty dollars. You can't beat bargains like that. You just have to avoid sets that are MP3 based rehashes.
I agree with you that the simplicity of the Ruby helps it to avoid the issues that multiple source players might have. It's almost always better to keep things simple with electronics if you can.Can't wait for the Ruby to arrive tomorrow.
Mike
|
Thanks sebrof. I'll take a look at the manual right now and turn off anything not going to be used when setting the Ruby up after it arrives tomorrow. I didn't know the Ruby had a headphone amp. I should try plugging in my old Pioneer headphones (vintage 1970s') and see if they still work before turning that off.
Mike |
It’s been almost two days having the Marantz Ruby CD/SACD player installed in the system. Even right out of the box the player has been impressive, and performing exactly as described by those of you who have one indicated it would.
It has particularly shined when playing well recorded CD’s. On the John McLaughlin/Shakti Natural Elements CD I discovered the high frequency content that my old Marantz 8005 had been rolling off as Mahler aptly indicated it did. L. Shankar’s violin playing in the highest frequencies was exquisitely rendered on that recording.
On good recordings each instrument had a sense of detail, fullness, and space about it that was clearly an improvement as pettyofficer described, including more "air and harmonic content". The clarity sebrof described is certainly there.too
As far as vocals were concerned I almost fell over listening to Emmylou Harris’ Wrecking Ball album. Her voice was so fully realized and beautifully rendered it could hardly be believed. On instrumental jazz, Miles Davis never sounded better on the Seven Steps to Heaven CD, again a fully realized performance that demonstrated nuance without any upper register harshness.
Bass performance has been deep and tight so far on a number of recordings, including Jaco Pastorius’ on Weather Report’s Birdland cut on their Heavy Weather recording, and the baritone sax on Los Lobos’ Kiko album, not to mention White Stripes bass heavy Seven Nation Army cut on their Elephant CD. Scott LeFaro’s bass on Bill Evans excellent in every respect Waltz for Debby live recording, was particularly well realized and taut.
To be fair, on less well recorded albums there was less for the Ruby to pull out of the digital grooves. On Joni Mitchell’s For the Roses CD, which sounded great on the 8005, I really couldn’t recognize much difference in the playback on the Ruby. I’ll have to try some of her other albums. John Coltrane’s My Favorite Things at Newport was a similar experience. Now when the Ruby has a chance to break in in some, we’ll see what a difference that makes. I’m looking forward to hearing how much better an SACD recording might sound too.
Jafant, you wanted some feedback on the Ruby’s performance so there it is. Thanks for your initial recommendation on the Marantz Ruby CD/SACD. I’m quite pleased thus far.
Mike |
Pettyofficer. I listened to Joni Mitchell's Blue album last night and that sounded very good. The pressing of For the Roses was done in Germany by Record Service GMBH, Alsdorf. It did not list a pressing date, only mentioning it was a remaster of the 1972 recording in a digital format. It did state on the back cover, "The CD version can reveal limitations of the source tape". It is a Redbook CD, nothing special. I'm guessing by that quote they were confessing they weren't happy with the remastering they did, recognizing it's limitations.
I do have both a CD version and a vinyl record of Miles Davis' Saturday Night at the Blackhawk Volume1, which I played back to back last night on the Ruby and then the VPI Classic 2/ Ortofon 2M black cartridge turntable. It's not the world's greatest recording, but it was interesting to listen for differences. Both versions sounded fairly similar with the analog version sounding a bit more natural or "analog" so to speak, but you really had to be attentive to tell the difference. I could recognize a bit more on the CD version that the bass was poorly miked. Both were equally enjoyable though.
I'll try taking the Shuyata Denali out of the loop a component at a time as you suggest, but I'm not experiencing any detectable issues with it otherwise, and I do love the noise-free inky black backgrounds I attribute to its use. But it would be a worthwhile experiment as the absence of background noise might be attributed to the other components. This new system is a marvel though noise-wise, compared to my old Phase Linear, Dahlquist DQ 10 and Bang and Olufsen 4002 set up, that I had for forty years or so. No hiss or hum at all any more.
I actually like listening to CD's more than records now, not for the sound quality, but for the absence of pops and crackles of other vinyl surface noise you get no matter how well you take care of your records. I should dig out my old Burwen Transient Noise Eliminator and try that out again on some records for fun. It would probably be an audio disaster though.
By the way, where do you get your SACD's. I tried to find some on Amazon last night but they kept routing me back to their standard CD and Vinyl selections when I typed in SACD. That's a good point you make that newer recordings expressly made for SACD pressing would likely to yield better results than reissues of old material might. Some of those older jazz remasters are surprisingly good though. Take care,
Mike
|
Pettyofficer, you're lucky to have a good retail outlet for CD's in Seattle. I Iived nearby in Monroe and Bothell throughout the eighties. I used to love driving there to shop at Towers and Peaches and that place under the monorail that specialized in imports. There was a great used record store in Everett too at the time that had lots of rare material. Here in Roanoke the last place left selling CD's was the Barnes & Noble book store at the mall and they might have quit too for what I know. Thank goodness for online shopping and thanks for your suggestions on where to search.
Jafant thanks for the info on how to search for SACD's on Amazon. I'll do that today.
Sebrof, I'll check out Ebay too. I've had pretty good luck with used CD's so far, way better than second-hand records which so often are crackly sounding even if they look perfect. I did get one used CD online from our local Goodwill recently. I haven't yet figured out if there is a physical Goodwill store to go to to check out their stock, or if it was only an online venture.
Tweak, I'll look up the Machina Dynamica New Dark Matter today. Sounds like you've had some good luck with system improvements and modifications.
Mike
|
I'll check it out, Thanks. Are you meaning in the new issue or last years?
Mike |
Twoleftears, thanks,
Pettyofficer. I agree with you completely on how vulnerable a downloaded music collection might be, even if backed up. I had a computer crash on me once and lost tons of saved information. Never again. I'll take a look at the Acoustic Sounds website you suggest. Eventually we might have to depend on the used market to obtain the CD's and SACDs we want.
Mike
|
Thanks Anwar. I wasn't aware there were free DSD downloads anywhere. That's interesting. You're lucky to have the SA-10. I wonder how they compare to the Ruby's. Do you ever utilize the wide variety of filters the SA-10 has? I've yet to check out the Ruby's two filters. I do like Norah Jones music and just saw her on TV a couple of days ago. That would be a good SACD choice for me. Thanks.for the recommend,
Mike |
