The Altec 4722 based MC step ups run particularly well with the Denon 103, better than the A23 in my view. Haven’t compared to the Homage though. Also don’t underestimate the classic Denon S1 step up. Although I haven’t heard it, a super high end cartridge manufacturer recommended it for my cartridge in preference to their own. You should also factor in interconnects between SUT and phono - they alter the sound hugely and experimentation is required to get the best results. |
The 103 cartridge, unless modified, has a finite limit (like all cartridges) to it’s capacity for expressing nuance. the denon 103 is known for it’s self noise which blurs and covers up detail. That is why so many modified versions based on the 103 exist out there in the wild. therefore, look to a new expression of a 103, a modified 103, an altered ’lower self noise’ version of a 103, and then you will get more from the Auditorium 23 SUT that you already have. The OP might be using a modified 103 or a cart based upon a 103, already, but that is not clear from the OP itself. |
Dear @dhcod : My way of thinking is to put money where it really counts and you have 2.5K ready to invest in something that permits enjoy MUSIC at way better quality performance levels. So, change your cartridge. Here some excellent alternatives and you can’t go wrong with either ( streching a little your budget if need it because always you can negociate with the sellers. ):
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
I have a Homage T2 for my Charisma Denon 103 and EMT tsd carts. I also have a copper version of the Emia Slagle step up for my low impedance My Sonic lab cartridge. Dave is excellent to work with, and offered me top notch service. Performance wise, it's a sleeper, and well worth seeking out. I can't recall the review, but it was a recent Herb Reichert one. He said his copper wound Slagle was better than the Bob's Sky, which many feel is an excellent value. The Slagle is around $2700, so closer in price to your standard A23 than the Homage. Needless to say, just a satisfied customer. No kickbacks (-: |
Dear @dhcod : " Pretty much the same as the A23. I've yet to hear much of a difference... that's why I'm looking to go a step higher. "
Well, I think that could be useless to look for any other SUT because we have to remember that the SUT is connected to a phono stage and IC cables and receives the recording signal after that signal pass through other stages ( in the phono preamp ) where the more critical is the RIAA eq. stage and where the Leben is a true " disaster ". So if you really want to go " a step higher " then you need a better phono stage along the SUT you already own or chage the phono stage unit for one phono stage with active high gain and no SUT. Take a look how the Leben performs in the RIAA eq and the other issue is its high output impedance: https://www.stereophile.com/content/leben-rs-30eq-phono-preamplifier-measurements You can't ask for oranges to that banana tree. No way ! ! Lamm does not helps to much. You need a more solid phono alternative.
R.
|
I have looked at your system - and here's my thoughts - Firstly a friend of mine owned the Leben & Lamm at the same time and I have listened to them extensively. The Lamm, despite being not the greatest in resolution is still better than the Leben - so I can't explain your findings. The Leben misses a lot of detail and he got rid of it. Now when it comes to MC transformers I have had Garrott modified 103's and still have a 103D long with a slew of other cartridges. I have a draw full off SUT's - I would not spend $2500 on a SUT because they are a crapshoot - what works for one cartridge can be a disaster on another, even if they have identical internal impedances/specs. Another example is I have some Altec 4722's and Altec 4629's. The 4629's are as good as any others I have tried including Tim Deparavacini's head and some other super expensive trannies. Now despite the superiority of the 4629 the 4722's which are much cheaper, and less well specced actually sound better with the Denon 103. All my other cartridges the 4629's are clearly better. The Jensens in the Lamm are mid priced, sound wise they are very neutral - more accurate than most vintage trannies. One option for you is to either upgrade the Lamm trannies to the top the line Jensen 347 AX series which are much better - you can select the gain that is appropriate for your system and cartridge. Alternatively you could purchase the top of the line Jensens and get them installed in a separate box, which means you could use them with any phono. The Jensen option would cost you significantly less than $2500k and probably be less of a crapshoot. By the way if you went the Jensen way, the zoebel network can be dialled in precisely to your cartridge by putting it on a scope, with a signal mirroring the internal impedance of your cartridge and adjusting the zoebel network c to create an accurate square wave. This should be able to be done by a competent tech. Finally if you really want to taste the French Cabernet or Italian Barolo why not try either some vintage Tango or vintage Denon AU1000. At least if it doesn't suit you have a collectors item for resale. Personally I have ended up with a current based mc phono stage - far superior to any of the trannies and tube head amps I have sitting in the cupboard. Also I've had the famous Cotters., Quicksilver and they are bleh, as are the Hashimotos, Bob's Devices mentioned above.
|
I'm pretty happy with my Denon AU-340 SUT, that uses some very nice Tamuri transformers and it doesn't break the bank. Check out the bandwidth of the older higher end Denon products. Tells you a lot about the quality of the transformers. These Tamuri have very nice specs and sound spectacular. Older legendary transformers sometimes have very limited bandwidth that roll off sharply near the audible limits, this could have the effect's of tone controls, while you might find the sound "pleasing", it really isn't transparent to the music signal.
BillWojo |
Dear @dhcod : " we all hear differently and have different tastes in reproduction. "
I agree with your statement but that's not the main issue because it does not matters what we ike that Lebel is a " disaster " for say the least and no matters with which SUT you paired: still a disaster and that's . Problem is not the SUT and you want ( that's what you posted ) " to go step higher ". Really I don't care what you can do what I'm doing is only to give you an advise. At the end is your money not mine.
R. |
Greetings You should maybe consider the Denon AU-S1 SUT. It was designed to be used with the Denon LOMC cartridges. I have been using the AU-S1 for years with my Denon DL-S1 cartridges. Very well built. Lots of info on the internet about this unit. I have seen a few used ones for sale and new ones also. New ones go for about $3000 and used for around $1000 plus. Joe |
@dhcod : I really sorry for you after read your post but such is life and to each his own.
Go a head in your SUT hunting.
R. |
dhcod, Can you say what it is that must have you at least vaguely dissatisfied with what you have got and why you think a "better" SUT is the solution to that problem? Why, for example, do you rule out the cartridge or your phono stage, or even your present ICs, as a cause of whatever it is that makes you want better. Apart from that, you got some good SUT suggestions from Dover and others who are experienced. |
