I have a McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe that I've been very happy with for the past two years, but I'd like to see if I can do better within a limited budget. Steve McCormack's folks at SMC will upgrade it for ~$1850 (Gold upgrade), but is there a better amp I can find for less than $3000 used (the approximate value of my amp plus upgrade cost), that might make more sense; any suggestions?
No doubt the Gold upgrade will be worth doing if you keep it but agree you’ll be doing good to get what the upgrade will cost if you ever go to sale your amp. Definitely a following for your amp with the upgrade though.
Don’t see them used much lately and maybe still a tad more than what you mentioned, but a Pass X250.5 would be a great choice if you need the extra power.
Agree if you really really love your DNA-1 but just want more, the upgrade makes sense if you're planning to keep it for the long run. As an owner of an old DNA-0.5 Rev A I'm kinda facing the same decision. But if you're open to exploring new pastures, there's a pair of Clayton Audio M70 monos that bring you into pure Class-A operation that would sorely tempt me -- especially at the $2100 asking price. Just another potential option FWIW, and best of luck.
Steve and Patrick are currently upgrading a pair of DNA-1s for me. I trust them enough to spend my money on the upgrades based on previous work they have done for me, including an outstanding TLC-1 linestage (the black one pictured on the SMc Audio website) that (after upgrades) beat out about 20 preamps I previously owned, most in the $5-$10K retail price range. One thing about their current amplifier upgrades is that depending on how far you go, the upgrades represent almost an entirely new amplifier. They use new/different circuit boards, larger Plitron low noise toroidal transformers, high-end Lundahl transformers on the inputs (to create balanced inputs while blocking DC and noise), new and better capacitors, and a host of strategic part and circuit upgrades taking advantage of both newer/better parts (such as Jupiter copper foil capacitors), and circuit enhancements they have found to make the amps sound better based on their 20+ years of improving those very amps.
BTW, my other current amps include Clayton M300 monos and a pair of Cary CAD 500MBs. I chose the Claytons over Lamm M1.2 Reference amps and Acoustic Imagery Atsah (Ncore NC1200) monos, based on owning them at the same time and directly comparing them head-to-head.
Agree it's worth the $$ but only if you plan on keeping the modded amp for a long time. There's no question SMc does great work and the modded amp will sound better just ask yourself if you really are in love with it's current signature sound. IMHO it will become cleaner and more extended at both frequencies but the sonic signature should stay the same.
Good point and true. I would add that in addition to extension and clarity, expect lower noise and (in the case of amplifiers) more drive due to the larger transformer. Steve's upgraded amplifiers also tend to have good spatial qualities and he can do certain things to make the sound trend in one direction or another (i.e., warmer/fatter or more detailed....based on parts choices and bias) but, in general, the sonic signature of the upgraded amplifier will be in same family as the original amplifier. IME, McCormack amplifiers are tonally musical with clarity, coherence, drive, and good
spatial qualities, but are not particularly warm sounding. To me, there is a difference between a dense tonality and warmth, with the first adding to musicality and the second taking away from clarity. I need my gear to have dense, colorful, tonal qualities but I generally tire of overtly warm-sounding gear over the long haul.
Good advice here from those who cautioned about resale value but on the flip side of that you may have a hard time finding something that sounds as good for anywhere near the price. I know my Claytons sound very good so I will be comparing them directly with the upgraded DNA-1 monos. The result will be more about sonic differences and my preferences than about one amp being objectively better than the other.
I could build you a nice stereo amplifier 6SN7 tube hybrid design with point to point wiring so no circuit boards and ship it to you for a trial period. Plitron transformer and choke would increase the cost though. See my stuff here on Agon.
I would definitely go with SMcAudio's upgrades. Pat and Steve provide excellent service, and you can spend whatever you are comfortable spending- though their standard upgrades are probably the way to go. The nice thing is that they will tailor the upgrade with the equipment you are using. Though I would ask them for a time frame, if you need the amps upgraded quickly. Sometimes they get a backlog that can keep things from getting upgraded quickly. BTW, they upgraded my DNA-1's to monoblocks as well as upgrading my Micro Power amps to monoblocks and Micro Line Drive. All of which perform way beyond their original configuration.
@cheeg I've had my DNA-1 Deluxe for 22 years. I had it upgraded by SMc Audio 20 years ago and after realizing it had been that long, I contacted Steve to see what he might do to upgrade and update it. As it turns out, he explained that over the last few years he has had some well-healed clients ask him to build them ne plus ultra amps. In the process of meeting their desires he discovered new ways to improve the DNA line. Suffice it to say that I sent my amp. to him and just about every component of the amp save the transformer and Nichicon Goldtune output capacitors was upgraded. The amp I received back was entitled, "Gold Special". The McCormack name badge was replaced with an SMc badge.
If the originally modded amp was a diamond, the Gold Special is a finely polished diamond of nearly perfect color and no occlusions. It passes every bit of the musical source with no added distortion. The openness and clarity, the bass attack and woody resonance of a string bass are all there. I will never part with this amplifier! Steve, Patrick and the rest of the SMc crew execute their work with care and precision. If you allow them the opportunity to work on your's you will not be disappointed.
I've owned about a dozen McCormack products over the last 25 years, both stock and modded. In agreeance with rsf507 you do want to keep them to get your money's worth, but high end audio is not an investment, you almost always lose $ down the road. Selling the DNA-1 and buying another amp may or not reach your "audio nirvana" then you'll probably lose twice. I can say with proven experience, having owned a stock DNA-1 and a gold upgrade at the same time, there was a huge difference in sound quality, clarity, soundstage, etc. SMc upgraded equipment does resell quite well as I have experience on multiple occasions.
A couple years ago I sent my pair of DNA-225 amps to SMc to have converted to mono amps and have them upgraded along with my LD-2 preamp to silver status. It was during the holidays so it did take a few weeks longer but Patrick will call and/or email you as much as you like to give you play by play updates and recommendations. When completed, Steve with audition them for his final approval and he may call you himself or he may answer the phone when you call. Upon receiving the equipment back I can testify that both the $ and effort were well spent. Without even burn in time, these amps could hold their own against Pass, Rowland or Levinson, all whom I've had experience with.
One more note, in my last conversation with Patrick I believe he told me that they now had the ability to upgrade and work on their faceplates, either etching or laser to redo the often problematic silk screen lettering on some of their older products, or maybe to just fancy them up a little. We all know that the DNA's never won any beauty pageants, but then neither did Mike Tyson.
over the last few years he has had some well-healed clients ask him to build them ne plus ultra amps. In the process of meeting their desires he discovered new ways to improve the DNA line.
@hifiman5 and @joecollege are correct, the SMc upgrades have significantly improved over the years due to Steve's work for clients seeking the best possible amplifier he can build. I wouldn't be surprised to see him develop and bring to market a new amplifier independent of the McCormack upgrades, as with his VRE-1C preamplifier.
Currently, about the only things they reuse from the DNA amplifiers when performing upgrades (assuming the client chooses the higher/highest level of upgrades) are the chassis, heat sinks, and transistors. They can reuse the transformers but prefer to replace them with Plitron low-noise transformers. They actually don't care whether you send them non-working DNA amplifiers since they can replace everything except the heat sinks and chassis.
The project they are currently working on for me will indeed include new custom engraved faceplates that will match the faceplate on my SMc preamp. They offer a variety of colors and engraving options, to meet the desires of their clients.
Great responses -- I had no idea there were so many McCormack fans on Agon!
@soix Thanks for your suggestion to check out the Clayton Audio M70 monos -- they do look like an interesting replacement, although I have to wonder why the owner is selling them so soon. If you or anyone else on this thread has heard that amp and can offer a comparison with the DNA-1 Deluxe (either original or upgraded), I'd really appreciate it!
I have a DNA-1 Platinum Ultra upgrade or something like this. Its an end game amp for the series. One thing that really is required with his gear is careful component matching, I've had a lot of trouble pairing up these amps with my preamp due to the very high input gain.
To update my post from August, I recently received my new SMc Audio DNA-1 Ultra G monoblock amplifiers and they have been warming up over a week now. To get the ball rolling on the project, I simply sent SMc two used DNA-1 amplifiers I purchased on-line. The upgrades included a new main board designed by SMc Audio and specifically manufactured for them, a large Plitron Low Noise power transformer, new capacitors, many other new parts and connectors, and special wiring. As indicated in my August post, very little remains from the original amplifiers except for the chassis and heat sinks. Steve and
Patrick told me these represent their best work and they sure sound great. I just received the recommended Stillpoint Ultra Minis from Steve yesterday that will replace the original ModSquad Sorbothane footers.
The amps are positioned on SRA platforms that were recalibrated specifically for the weight and footprint of these SMc amplifiers.
This weekend will be my first chance to give the amps a serious listen so I am looking forward to that.
@mitch2 — I’d be very interested in what you find in terms of improvements as I’m considering sending my DNA 0.5 RevA in for upgrade, and I also believe my input board may have finally crapped the bed so I need to do something anyway.
I never had the stock DNA-1s in my system so I will not be able to compare before and after the upgrade. I have owned a stock DNA-2 and, many years later, a Platinum DNA-2. I also owned the DNA-500 that Peter Moncrieff called "the best solid state amp on the planet." What I can tell you is that these DNA-1 Ultra G monos definitely better the DNA-500 in every respect and particularly with respect to midrange texture and body and in the high frequencies where the DNA-500 could exhibit a touch of whispiness. The
DNA-1 Ultra Gs have (at least) the same iron-fisted control of the DNA-500 but within the envelope of a more even-handed, tactile, overall presentation. I have owned several really good amps (Class A, AB, and D) and my first impressions are that these SMc monos are right there with the best, plus they have the massive amount of power that my Aerials work best with (something like 600/1200/2000 into 8/4/2 ohms)!
So far, my experience with amplifiers is that the good ones do a couple of things really well. The trick is finding an amp who's strengths best match up with your primary needs based on your system, music, and listening preferences while still playing at a relatively high level in every other respect.
I concur with Mitch2, SMcAudio converted my DNA-1's to monoblocks and also converted a pair of Micro power amps to monoblocks, and upgraded a Micro preamp. Their work is 1st class. @soix , I would call SMc and provide them with your related equipment. I know it helps if they know what they are dealing with. In every case, Pat has helped direct me during the upgrade path. Bob
You can spend a lot more money, or talk to Patrick, and tell him the sound you want, they will pretty much voice, and give you the sound your looking for, unlike mnay others who either are voiced to their house sound or a straight wire amp, which don’t sound like you want.
as,mentioned here, when Steve and Pat upgrade, the amp is %80-90 gutted and all new high quality stuff is used!
tough call, if me, I would call and talk to Pat or Steve himself, and really listen to what they will do for you!
my ONLY issue w McCormack is I would drive to commiefornia, or Seattle, or where ever their located at, as I will never ship another amp again.
just my .002
i will be driving to Indianapolis soon, to pick up my other mono blocks.
Thanks to all for the recent responses to my August post. Following up, I decided to bite the bullet in October, and sent my amp in for an upgrade. Patrick was extremely sensitive to my cost issues, and only recommended special additions when he was certain they would help my present setup and future expectations. I drove away last week with a Gold Plus upgrade, including Steve's new Gravity Base Junior; it sounds amazing -- now I just need to think about what goes next (and when I can afford it)!
Congrats @cheeg! Could you share what upgrades were done (or if they’re listed somewhere already), the cost, and what improvements you experienced? I’m leaning heavily toward doing the upgrades myself and would be very interested in your thoughts. Thanks!
Thanks @soix! Patrick and I eventuality decided that the best package for my system and budget was: Gold Special upgrade, IXYS bridge rectifiers, Jupiter bypass complement (capacitors), Gravity Base Junior upgrade and Furutech Orange input fuse. I don’t want to get into the cost, but suffice to say I thought it was very fair considering how much work went into it. The most obvious improvements are noise and clarity — the phrase you often hear about a”veil being lifted” describes it well. When I’m listening to a well recorded guitar or piano piece, it’s as though the instrument is in the room with me. Soundstage is excellent too, although it was excellent before. Hope that helps — good luck with your upgrade!
When I’m listening to a well recorded guitar or piano piece, it’s as though the instrument is in the room with me. Soundstage is excellent too, although it was excellent before.
I am glad you are so happy with your new/upgraded amplifier. I hear the same things with my new SMc monoblocks. I had a chance to run them a little harder for the first time this past weekend and they are even better than what I heard in my initial impressions. They are tonally neutral, neither thin nor thick, yet have outstanding body and tonal saturation. They do dynamics similar to what was said about the DNA-500 - an iron fist in a velvet glove. If it is on the recording, it is just there in my room, no matter how loud or soft, fast or slow, and displaying the proper attack and decay. They do this in an almost understated way because the sound is so natural. The amps seem to be a perfect match for my somewhat inefficient speakers.
@mitch2 Glad you're enjoying your upgraded Ultra-G DNA-1 monoblocks -- at one point in this thread, you said you'd get back when you had a chance to compare them with your Clayton M300 monos; how did that turn out?
Since you asked, I will be glad to share my thoughts on how the SMc monos
compare with the Class A Clayton M300 monos
but I first want to spend some more time with the SMc monos before posting. In advance of my more specific impressions, I can share that both sets of amps sound excellent in their own way, but they do sound somewhat different from each other and they do
each have their own unique strengths. Below are a few links to reviews of the M300s for those of you who want to know more about the Clayton amps. The Clayton S2000 stereo amp discussed in the IAR review is actually two M300s in one chassis.
There is another glowing M300 review out there that was written by Martin DeWulf at Bound for Sound Report, a former Hi Fi Newsletter (that is no longer published) that covered reviews of equipment without taking any advertising money. I don't think you could find the review on-line but the author thought it was one of the best amps he had heard.
I am really enjoying this thread and wanted to get some opinions from you all. I have owned my DNA 1 for 18 years and had it upgraded to gold in 2008. It currently has an intermittent power switch issue that is getting worse, so i figured if i send it for repair, I would also send it in for a gravity junior upgrade. But then a friend emailed me today and is selling his McIntosh MC152 amp, which is less than a year old for a very fair price. So i was wondering if anyone has compared their McCormack amp with a a McIntosh or more specifically a MC 152 ? I love my DNA1 and never considered a different amp, but this has me curious. BTW, I have a McIntosh C49 preamp and Kef 104/2 speakers. Thank you for any input/opinions/advice!
McCormack and McIntosh typically have a very different presentations. McCormack's tend to be somewhat forward, McIntosh's tend to be laid back. Either might be better suited to different speakers. The Kef 104/2's are somewhat reticent;. I think the McCormack would be a better match for them.
I see it has almost been two years since my post four down. I am still enjoying the SMc/McCormack Ultra-G DNA-1 monoblocks. They are the closest I have come to amps that display an adequate combination of tone, dynamics, detail, staging and power, without noticable faults. They do a great job of driving my speakers and sound very good with whatever music I play though them.
To the question asked back then by @cheeg, the Clayton M300 monos were outstanding at portraying a realistic tone and dimensionality that was reminiscent of live music, and while I enjoyed them for years their Achilles heel IMO was that they seemed to fall just short of providing adequate dynamics for rock music, at least with my speakers. They were certainly powerful enough but just missed having that speed or urgency that rock music needs to come alive.
Back to the DNA-1s and the question by @djsrubin - I am not sure what would cause an "intermittent power switch issue" but if you have done any DIY at all, you should be able to work with Steve and rewire a new switch on your amp yourself, assuming that is in fact the problem. If you send the amp to Steve, the sweet spot would be to have him perform a full upgrade using the new boards. I believe the whole thing has to come apart to install the gravity base so a full upgrade would seem practical if you can afford it. If you don't have the Plitron transformer, that would also be a worthwhile upgrade IMO, although I heard he may be sourcing his low-noise toroidal transformers from another manufacturer now because of a Plitron availability issue. I suggest talking to Steve about options and costs because the end result would be well worth it IMO.
I had my DNA-1 upgraded two years ago, and wouldn't trade it for anything. Mitch2, thanks for your response on the Clayton monos (better late than never) -- as you can see, I stuck with McCormack and have been very glad I did. Also, I agree with your advice to djsrubin re working with Steve. He is a rare find, and gives wonderful customer support.
Very interesting tread. Thank to all of you for the input. I have a stock McCormack DNA-1. Need to call SMc Audio. Just scared of shipping the amp from the East Coast to the West Coast.
The new posts on this thread couldn’t have come at a better time. I currently have my DNA-1 amp at SMC getting a complete upgrade of the interior. Bought this amp in 1999 and had Steve upgrade it a couple years later. Talked to Patrick a few months ago about a complete upgrade. To be honest, I was ready to pull the trigger on a new amp I had been eyeing. After multiple conversations he convinced me that Steve was absolutely sure the new DNA-1 would match perfectly with my new speakers I am expecting in February (Salk Audio Song3 Encore). I am now about 30 days from getting my amp back along with the Salks. Patrick has been outstanding relaying advice on power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables. I can’t say enough good things about the information and advice he and Steve have given me. I am not a technical savvy audiophile, so Patrick and Steve’s input has been extremely helpful and reassuring throughout this process. I now nervously await for February to arrive.
@muskyman1Congratulations on your choice -- I'm sure you won't be disappointed! Please let us know how it sounds with your Salks -- what are you using for a pre, and do you use a DAC? Happy New Year, Casey
@unsoundI know how you feel, unsound, it looks like he wrote that without reading your post. Apparently, his sh*t seems to have written itself! All I can say is let it go, and have a Happy New Year.
@patrico200I understand your fear of shipping the rebuilt amp cross-country. All I can say is call Steve and Patrick -- they have a lot of experience with such things, and if they think they can ship it to you safely, I wouldn't doubt it. Good luck, and have a Happy New Year.
It hardly matters what happens on the way from your place to SMc Audio, especially if you are getting the works, since they don't use much more than the case, the heatsinks, and maybe the transistors. After the upgrades, Steve and Patrick will pack the amp(s) well for the return trip. The DNA-1 is heavy, especially with the gravity base, but still under 100 pounds and should be safely handled by competent UPS or FedEx drivers. My pair made it back from SoCal to Michigan with no issues and are the black ones pictured on the website. Here is Part 1 of a four part interview that may get you excited about the possibilities. Make sure the boxes are solid and have "Fragile" labels on them. The improvement in sound will be well worth the trip.
@patrico200- the process of shipping heavy/expensive audio equipment is not without risk, but there are things that can be done with packaging/shipping to mitigate the risk as discussed by me and others in another thread yesterday. If you are sending Steve amplifier(s) to upgrade, utilize the best packaging you can find for the trip over so he can use the same packaging to send them back to you. See my comments in the other thread about closed cell foam and spacing the equipment away from double wall cardboard boxes, as well as double boxing. You can also discuss your concerns directly with Steve when you schedule the upgrade because he has shipped many of his amplifiers to customers. Good luck.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
