Interesting one JP.
Yet another nod in favour of Mk3 :-)
Yet another nod in favour of Mk3 :-)
Upcoming Technics SP-10R (100th Anniversary Model)
Ok GAE owners, now you can sell your turntables, because upcoming Technics 100th Anniversary model will be a new version of the reference SP-10mk3 and they call it SP-10R. Finally!
http://www.technics.com/uk/about/press/releases/20170830-sp-10r/
"Berlin, Germany (30 August 2017) – Technics has today announced the launch of the Reference Class SP-10R, its most premium analogue, direct drive turntable to date, which is anticipated to hit the market in early summer 2018. The news comes as Technics unveils a prototype of the new, cutting-edge turntable with the world’s top-level* S/N (signal-to-noise) ratio and rotational stability for the first time at this year’s IFA."
"Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results
http://www.technics.com/uk/about/press/releases/20170830-sp-10r/
"Berlin, Germany (30 August 2017) – Technics has today announced the launch of the Reference Class SP-10R, its most premium analogue, direct drive turntable to date, which is anticipated to hit the market in early summer 2018. The news comes as Technics unveils a prototype of the new, cutting-edge turntable with the world’s top-level* S/N (signal-to-noise) ratio and rotational stability for the first time at this year’s IFA."
"Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results
The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound."
"The heavy platter features a three-layer structure consisting of brass, aluminum die-cast and deadening rubber, just like the platter of the SL-1200G. By optimising the natural frequency of each layer, external vibrations are thoroughly suppressed resulting in a beautifully clear and crisp audio experience."
"The SP-10R also features a new ultra-low-noise switching power supply, which, compared to a power supply unit using a transformer, is better at suppressing unwanted humming sounds and vibrations. The power supply unit is separate from the main turntable, preventing unwelcome noise from being transmitted to the turntable unit, for a sharper and clearer sound."
FIRST VIDEO with SP-10R:
P.S. Should we expect $15 000 or more ? And the new plinth comin soon?
Power supply looks funny, but the design of the drive is great, i think we should wait for the new version of the EPA-100 soon. Good news the GAE was not the last turntable !!!
293 responses Add your response
Yet nother plinth you may like for $8k made of Cast Iron by OMA If Cast Iron is good material for the plinth then i can make as many as i like with my local guys, but my own design. In the summer a good friend of mine made a replical of mid 50’s decor element for my balcony. It was made of Cast Iron too. This is one of the cheapest material locally. I’ve been using my iron pot for years to cook indian food, we all cook better if we cooking with gas :) |
And last year, Pani thought that the Audio Teknika ART9 was the greatest cartridge ever. (My deliberate exaggeration of his opinion.) This year he is on to something else and has sold the ART9 He is only human like you and I. Why hinge your thinking on his opinion? I don’t care how tweaked would be an SL 1210, the SL1200 G and the other new versions of the SL 1200 really have almost nothing in common structurally with the old line. Everything about the new series of SL 1200s is superior to the old. The only thing similar is the physical appearance from external view. From the get-go the SL 1210 motor, platter, and bearing just cannot compete with the motor, platter, and bearing of the new series.I agree on the human part. I did hear some better carts and hence moved on from ART9. Between the 1200G and Sp10 Mk2, I have again "heard" them performing in my room for weeks before I said one was better than the other. In fact the Sp10 Mk2 sounded better quite instantly but I took some time to really solidify my observation and write it down here. Theoretically one can say 1200G is superior but in practice I did not find it better. It sounded smaller more compressed and less fluid overall compared to a Sp10 Mk2. BTW, this is not just my observation. I know few other analog enthusiasts and also some Technics dealers who have reported the same after comparing the Mk2 and 1200G. The main point in favour of Sp10 mk2 is a higher drive and momentum in music. But then 1200G is a complete TT whereas Mk2 needs to be put together with a good plinth, isolation and all which goes in favour of 1200G. But not sonically. Let me go one step further and say this. Some of these guys have compared the Sp10 Mk3 and Sp10-R. Every one of them preferred the Sp10 Mk3. Again same observation, Mk3 has much more drive and pace while 10-R is more audiophile kinds, sophisticated and nice types. I wont mention the sources or names but I can tell you that those guys who have reported these comparisons are also on this forum and possibly reading these posts too. But they do not want to be named for obvious reasons. BTW, modded 1200 and 1200G should be a no brainer, 1200G any day. |
I haven’t seen that many members have heard the SP-10R or have purchased one yet? @tzh21y was able to hear one and loved it. Haven’t seen an update yet from JP. Checked his website and no update on blog. Very curious how the 10R compares to the mkIII. IMO, if it’s as good as the mkIII it’s a bargain at $10,000. I adore my vintage Luxman PD-444. I’d love to sit the 100th anniversary DD turntable that started it all next to it. As Dwight said in "The Office" whats the skinny? |
And last year, Pani thought that the Audio Teknika ART9 was the greatest cartridge ever. (My deliberate exaggeration of his opinion.) This year he is on to something else and has sold the ART9 He is only human like you and I. Why hinge your thinking on his opinion? I don’t care how tweaked would be an SL 1210, the SL1200 G and the other new versions of the SL 1200 really have almost nothing in common structurally with the old line. Everything about the new series of SL 1200s is superior to the old. The only thing similar is the physical appearance from external view. From the get-go the SL 1210 motor, platter, and bearing just cannot compete with the motor, platter, and bearing of the new series. |
@lewm I hope so, but i’m talking about upgraded / tweaked SL1210 mkII which is much better than the original. While the SL1200GR is not as good as the more expensive G model. I am awaiting for the review from people who can compare them side by side. The fact that Pani prefer SP-10mkII over his brand new SL1200G makes me even less optimistic about GR models. I was thinking to replace my 22 years old (pair) of upgraded SL1210 mkII with SL1200GR, but i doubt that GR can compete with my reference turntables. Maybe it's a bad idea. I prefer my Luxman PD-444 over the SP-10mkII https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37422426_2339189316099222_7361459351321575424_n.jpg?_n... |
Chakster, why are you waiting for a “proper“ review of the SL 1210 versus the SL 1200 G? in my view there is absolutely no way that the SL 1210 could possibly outperform the SL 1200 G. This is based just on knowing how the two turntables were built, what kind of motor each uses, and a general Gestalt of each product. If a reviewer were to claim that the SL 1210 outperformed the SL 1200 G, then I would question the reviewers capabilities, his ears, his system. It would not change my mind. The comparison between the SL 1200 G and the SP 10 mark2– is a closer thing, but there too I would expect the high-end model of the SL 1200 G to outperform the mark2 by at least a little bit. The Mark III is in a different world entirely. The best comparison to that would be the SP 10R. My impression is that the two turntables would be very very close in terms of any audible differences. This is why I did not buy a 10R when I was in Tokyo. I am very happy with my Mark III, and I am through chasing rainbows. Of course, my Mark III is in a 90 pound slate and Wood plinth that I designed for myself and built with professional input, and it has been subjected to the Krebs modification. |
I have heard a technics 1200, the 1200g is definitely better the 1200gr is very good and is better to these ears. I have not heard an older sp-10 but know people who have and they did say they were absolutely amazing tables so you could be right about the older reference technics. I had a technics 1200 and gave it to a friend. it was good, it did not perform like the 1200G. I would say the biggest thing that is coming into play here is run in time. There is something about some of the newer products coming out these days that seem to take forever to run in. My sacd player took almost a year before it started to sound right. the 1200G was similar as it took a very long time to run in and I am fairly certain its not done yet. the older sp-10s have been spinning for years and have an edge in that department. I still would believe that there is something to be said for them. i am sure they are amazing. |
@totem395 why not share the link so we could read about it ? Our man Pani prefered SP-10mkII over the SL1200G (upgraded). Now you said JP prefered old Technics over the SP10R ? I’d like to read his comment about Victor TT-101 versus SP10R People are raving about SL1200G and even about GR, because most of them never tried/used Technics turntables before. Each day we can read post how good is the SL1200G, but i start thinking that people never experienced the oustanding build quality of Technics (made in japan) and the power of Direct Drive. I am a bit sceptical as i’ve been using Technics tunrtables for 22 years and got bored of the signature design of all SL models (old and new). As far as i know it’s still impossible to find a proper review of the fully upgraded/tweaked old SL1210mkII and SL1200G or GR. |
@totem395 not on his blog yet, we're waiting for the review if he did such comparison |
They might sound better but I have not heard an older version. If they do.. I want one. Its possible. The tonearm is great. I want one of these tables but I can’t have one.... I am not hearing the power supply shortcomings as many have spoke of. These tables need run in time and a better power cord. as well as the mat. The headshell Technics supplies is not bad, it has to be with the right cartridge. It is also the quietest table I have ever heard. |
@tzh21y Much appreciate your report, thank you. I can’t wait to check out this Technics product, which promises to shake things up considerably in the analog world. Especially am curious about the stock plinth, since it appears that the aftermarket is already planning custom plinths to use with the plinthless SP-10R. Aftermarket plinthing could bring the price down a bit . . . Your thoughts on the tonearm? From your comments, I am hearing that the musical presentation as set up was on the analytical side (but also superb)? |
It sounded like it is absolutely one of the top turntables in existence. Very solid lifelike presentation that has a much larger soundstage than the 1200G as it should. The cartridge was a Ortofon Winfield Ti. The sustain and decay on this table is as good as it gets anywhere. If you are a belt drive lover and someone who like to tinker, the table may not be for you. No tinkering needed. It could be fully operational in less than an hour with two people as it probably weighs around 100 pounds. Very much an engineering masterpiece. It sounds as truthful to the source as I have ever heard anywhere. The table does not sound bloated or flabby but very grounded and well.... real. Like real music sounds. Listened to Symphonie Fantastique Berlioz Living stereo reissue. This is one of those records that can tell a lot about your system. A table and system that is less up to the task will not do this record justice and this is a record where you really notice the difference a high end system can make. The best equipment will reveal subtleties that really make a you believe you are listening to a real orchestra and you are right there over fifty years ago. Everything sounded right where it would be if you were there, front to back, side to side. Bass is extremely tight, solid and very right. The best bass I have ever heard from a turntable. It never added its own flavor to the sound, just what is there, in the grooves. What can I say... it is fantastic but its almost 20K. So unfortunately I will keep my 1200G for a long time as it is still a very good turntable, but not this one by any stretch of the imagination. |
Chakster, What you say about tax is true in Tokyo. Only the big stores, however, want to be bothered with the paperwork needed in order not to charge the tax. And one would need to present a valid passport, of course. Of all the stores I have so far visited, only Yodibashi Camera, an enormous department store that sells everything from audio to cameras to kitchen and bath appliances to etc., are willing to sell tax-free. Someone told me it amounts to 8%, but I would want to verify that. So you could take the price in yen and divide by ~1.1 to account for the value of the dollar vs the yen. Then deduct 8% from that amount, I guess. I am not feeling the urge or the need to indulge myself with the SP10R. We are here to spend time with our son; that’s most important. No sooner did I buy the Oyaide HS-CF than I read that there is an even more expensive CF headshell made by Oyaide, called the HS-TF. It’s a silvery color, and I have seen it before for sale on line. Not much info is available on line to discuss the differences, except I think the one I bought is made of layers of plastic and CF, not 100% CF. |
@lewm Chakster, Is that Grace HS6 a current product or another piece of vintage art? It’s vintage, but very nice carbon fiber headshell In the stores that had salesmen who spoke any English (a rarity), I inquired about pricing on the SP10R. No one is willing to discount it at this point... I’m not sure about that stores in Japan, but in every big electronic stores worldwide a tourist/foreigner can buy gear without paying TAX (VAT) if the goods will be exported from the country, some special paper works required from that big stores, in Europe they call it Global Tax free. You pay tax, but showing the papers and goods at the airport at Global Tax Free points you get your tax back in cash. Pretty good system: http://www.globalblue.com/tax-free-shopping/japan/ BTW This is latest Reed 5T tonearm you’re talking about: https://www.reed.lt/product/reed-5t-tonearm/ |
As you know, I have a Reed 2A, 10.5-inch, on my Mk3. I lust a bit for the 3P. I think this new pivoting/SL tonearm is called the 5T. It seems to work like the Schroeder LT; the base moves as the tonearm traverses the LP, so as to maintain a straight path from the outermost groove to the spindle. Headshell offset is zero. I like that part. What makes the base or pivot point move in concert with the stylus is a big question; looks like there is some sort of servo motor. This would mean that some tracking angle error has to develop in order to activate a sensor and then a motor to move the pivot point in order to re-establish tangency to the groove. But I don’t really know for sure. |
Well Lew, I consider both Dertonarm and Vindmantas (owner/ designer by Reed) as genius. Those are so rare that i have no idea how to write the plural. We all (?) are familiar with Dertonarm but not with Vindmantas. Well he is/was a real rocket scientist and worked for the Russian military. When his country become independent he started to work for himself. I like both but not their ''new prices''. I owned all Reed's till 3P and give up thereafter. From ''the Bavarian'' I own the headshell and the cheapest MC and give up thereafter. In this sense I am like my Slavic brother chakster ; 5K is my limit, even for your Kenwood . |
Wow. Thanks for the recommendations. I too am interested in the Yamamoto CF headshell, but I did not see any Yamamoto products in any of the 3 high-end stores I have so far visited. Today I did buy an Oyaide HS-CF, perhaps close to the Yamamoto. I also bought an Ortofon LH8000, the wooden one. I’ve heretofore been a cheapskate when it comes to headshells, so it’s about time I owned some good ones. If I do see the Yammy CF, I’ll buy that too, providing it is not too expensive. This despite the fact that I have misgivings about CF used in audio products; I generally have not liked the sonic signature which is too obvious to my ears. This applies to one tonearm and a few speakers, so far. This afternoon, I did see but not hear an Acoustic Sounds Axiom tonearm. It seems to be beautifully engineered. Seems also that Dertonearm is behind a whole line of products under the business name Acoustic Audio, which sport an “aa” logo. They’re all gorgeous to look at and very expensive. I also saw but did not hear a Reed pivoted straight line tonearm that I did not know existed. It looks to be very complex but nicely made. Has anyone messed with it? NAndric? The Axiom was mounted on a Feickert Blackbird tt. Although I favor DD, the Blackbird looks to be very well designed to avoid or minimize belt creep. Chakster, Is that Grace HS6 a current product or another piece of vintage art? In the stores that had salesmen who spoke any English (a rarity), I inquired about pricing on the SP10R. No one is willing to discount it at this point, because it is so new to them that many stores don’t even have one to sell. The standard retail price in Japan must be the one I quoted in Yen, somewhere up this thread. |
Headshell recommendations, anyone? For both high and low compliance cartridges. The best headshell I have heard in my system (regardless of cartridge compliance) is the Yamamoto HS-4 Carbon Fiber. If you can find a few of them and chuck them in your carry-on.....I don't think you'll be disappointed.....👅 Enjoy the trip..... |
Even if a local (Japan) 10R is set up for 100V, that is no problem at all. Good robust step down transformers for AC are very easy to find and very cheap. I already have two turntables at home, my L07D and my DP80, running off 115V to 100V step down transformers. Interestingly, in this newly built apartment that we’ve rented for the duration, all the electrical outlets are 3-prong type, exactly the same as what we use in the US. No adapters needed. SMPS. I guess you are referring to the fact that the 10R PS is an SMPS type and you’re assuming that an SMPS is per se a detriment. I don’t necessarily agree that it is. Anyway a comparison between Mk3 and 10R would be to assess overall sonics; any negative effect of the SMPS is subsumed in such a comparison. A bigger concern would be the cost of shipping, unless I could carry it with me on board the plane. Judging from JP’s photos of his unit as packed, that might be awkward at best. I visited Disc Union yesterday, major purveyors of new and used LPs, CDs, and DVDs. They are now spread out into 5 stores in the area of the Ochanomizu rail station. 8 or so years ago, they were all in one building that was about the size of any one of their stores, now. The hobby, especially the vinyl hobby, is definitely alive and well in Tokyo. I think I’d rather go home with a bag full of LPs than with a 10R. And a few new headshells. Headshell recommendations, anyone? For both high and low compliance cartridges. Also, I note that mono cartridges are on prominent display in all stores. |
Doubtful. The version sold here is world voltage and comes with four different power cords. I think the one sold in Japan is at least with different accessories as mine didn’t come with the usuall two-prong with ground wire break out that my Japanese GAE did. Probably a regulation issue with including that cord with a unit sold in the states. |
Dear @nkonor i assume $2800 price difference between SP-10 MKIII and SP-10R is not the big deal for you, right ? Especially if the difference between old and new model is so little in terms of sound and not audible as suggested by Lew (who has not yet compared those models). May i ask you, do you have SP-10mk III or SP10R ? The nature of audiophilia is constant upgrade, i have never seen so many SP-10 mkIII for sale ever in my life. The reason is that people would love to upgrade to SP-10R. |
@lewm the price drop for SP-10MK3 makes this model a bit more affordable for us (normal people), you should not worry about it simply because you already have mk3 and i guess you are not gonna sell it. I already sold my SP-10mk2, so when it comes to Technics i can only think about mk3 or those new models, but SP-10R is not affordable for me. But as you know i have two Victor TT-101, maybe i don't need Technics at all. Maybe it's more reasonable to invest in Victor to service them. Still too many questions about this and that. You are the one who has Technics and Victor. Our JP is another person with both of them and also SP-10R. |
Chakster, Why are you so obsessed with market values? Who gives a hoot? (I use the word “hoot” in lieu of an obscenity.) My prediction is that there will be a difference between the two up or down, and that the difference is so small as to be negligible in practical terms, which is to say measurable but maybe not audible. If I had to worry about the value of my Mk3, I probably should not have bought one in the first place. I consider the comparison between the Mk3 and the 10R to be nothing but fun. By the way, I don’t happen to agree with you, long term, on the effect of the 10R with respect to market value of the Mk3. But as someone else famously said, in the long term we’re all dead. |
