Currently using an Auralic Mini to Mytek Liberty. Looking for a one box solution to save space/cables primarily, but if sound quality improvement is capable in the under $3K range as well, then WOOHOO!!!
Will be hooked up to a Yamaha A-S2100 integrated, Spendor A4 speakers.
I've previously used: Lumin D2, and PS Audio DSD Jr. - and both of those sounded the same as my current setup, and I'm not against going back to either of those since they fit the requirements.
Open to all/any other suggestions. I have my eye currently on: Mytek Brooklyn Bridge and the Teac NT-505. Would prefer a component that offers balanced & unbalanced outputs, and volume control isn't needed of course.
Thanks for providing the link. That makes much more sense now, as I was a little confused by your earlier posts.
Not a whole let of information on the specs, as of now, but it seems to do everything I want, with the only exception that there are no balanced outputs (not a deal breaker though).
It's on my list now, but I would like to know more about the DAC inside, and output specifications when available.
Hi there,New to this forum and at best a part-time audiophile.To share my experience: I use an OPPO 205 UDP in two systems - ROON is run on a MacBook pro (my 'dedicated music server'), conncetion w/ OPPO is seemless via Toslink, USB DAC or wireless input (Linksys mesh system as wireless router).Via USB DAC, the OPPO is a full MQA endpoint (decoding and rendering), via wireless, it is limited to the 'renderer' function (one step of unfolding if I understand right), so you leave the initial 'decoding' step with ROON. MQA files up to 24bit/192kHz play "losless" via the wifi connection. When you want to play the same program through both systems (e.g., when you have a house full of guests), time coherence between the two OPPOs via wifi input is perfect (thanks to Roon). I would argue that the wifi connection is at least as good as USB and Toslink 'wired' connections, may be better - although I cant tell. My dealer had dropped a Mytek Brooklyn in my system for comparison (only tried USB input, no wifi) - it sounded a little cooler, but to me there is no loss of detail, space, texture when comparing the OPPO to the Mytek and I actually preferred the 'sound' of the OPPO (apodizing filter setting), but all in all differences were very marginal. Now - I know the OPPO is no longer in production, yet the service is still very much alive, incl. firmware updates, etc. and you could still get a new one on Amazon or ebay within your budget. Superb SACD player comes on top. One more box saved.
What kind of Dac does the Bel-Canto have? It can’t be much if there’s no highlights of the dac on the product page. With no balanced outputs, I'm not certain if this would be any better than a Bluesound node at 1/3 the price
Hi all, This particular forum has been very interesting to me. There were very few responses (maybe 2) that recommended the Roon Nucleus or Nucleus+ as a good solution. I am wondering why that would be the case? I use the Nucleus+ to stream Roon, Tidal and Qubuz through a Chord Hugo tt2 via usb into a Krell Illusion preamp using the balanced analog outputs/inputs. I find the sound quality to be phenomenal. The Nucleus+ also has a 2 terabyte storage drive for my “streaming” content. What am I missing? Thank you. JW
Jworth, what you are missing is the title of this post which is for streaming dacs. The Roon Nucleus is not a streaming dac just a streamer.
The other thing you will find out in the forums is that the Nuclues including the plus are actually not that popular compared to the Aurender and Innous streamers which are both much more technologically advanced products with the exception being the Aurender is not a Roon compatible product.
In particular the Innous streamer offers far better performance than the Nucleus plus as the Nuculeus is based on a Nuc computer vs the Innous which is a completely custom device with a custom mother board which has been desinged to provide a low noise/low jitter digital output via both USB and Ethernet, a low noise processor, as well as an ethernet incomming noise filter, and a state of the art power supply design.
If you love your Nucleus we would recommend trying a demo of the Innous Zenith which is a bit more expensive, howerver, we feel you will really be blown away by the massive sonic difference between the two steamers.
Got it, feeling kind of stupid. I guess my view is I like the combination of DAC & Streamer I have now. Your suggestion is to replace the streamer (Nucleus +) with an Innous Zenith streamer. This change will create a substantial jump in sound quality. Worth a some thought. Thank you for the feedback.
I did some research on the chip technology on both the Roon Nucleus+ And the Innous Zenith products. What I found was interesting in terms of technology innovation and devastation. The NUC chip is far more advanced than the Innous chip in terms of computing power. The Intel NUC chip is close to technology advancement proof. The Innous chip is already devastated in terms of technology advancement. The software that both companies produce is proprietary. I think I will stick with the combination of Roon and Intel’s Technology v. Innous. Thanks again for the insight. My apologies for getting this discussion off track...
Jworthy, the reason that Innous uses the chip set they do has to do with noise. The more noise generated into the motherboard, the greater the likelyhood that the music data will be interefered with.
It is for this reason that Innous uses the parts they do, if you look at what they have accomplished in their designs you will realize the extent they have gone to make a completely quiet box, that does not mean mechanical noise it means radiated electrical noise, the motherboard’s design, the case shielding the power supply, the specific chip set the layout of the wiring and the type of wiring all are important factors in creating a noise free design.
In the case of the Mark Three units Innous’s design team went over every part on the MK II’s motherboard with a noise probe and then had each chip removed if it wasn’t essential, that along with the subsititution of parts and a custom noise filter are all factors.
The Nucleus is not a particularly well conceived product from a company that has previously never made made hardware but is a software company. We looked at the Nuclueus and passed on it based on the fact that the design didn't bring anything to the table other than a fast processor.
Innous is now on their third iteration of their designs. while the Nuclueus is a first generation product.
Innous started the same way that many companies did by assembling a server out of readily available parts and tweaking the bios that was 2009!
Fast forward ten years, custom motherboards, custom cases, tweeked up ssds, ethernet incomming and outgoing noise filters, custom software, reclocking boards with 1ppb jitter levels, custom reclocking on the ethernet, custom power supplies from two to six rail designs and everything is made to be the best sounding product for the price point.
For these reasons Innous is growing and growing and growing, they have outgrown their production facilities three times allready.
We know what we hear and the Innous servers definately produce a more analog like sound, factor in easy to use, Roon endpoint and Core, easy to setup and you will see why they are taking over the market.
@rbach Thanks for all the great constructive comments on this post. When other members who are looking for a streaming dac see this, they'll surely be better off, after reading all the great information you've provided.
Rbach you just joined and all seven of your posts are about us, how flattering.
Do you have any experience in listening to, setting up or comparing servers?
As per Innuos, please do your homework, we represent the brand because when we compared their servers to Aurender, Baetis, Naim, Sotm, stock and modified Mac Mini computers, the sound quality was better.
Currently we have three $15-20k servers in the shop a Memory Player 64, a Baetis Reference and a Innuous Statement.
Want to come over and take a listen to see for yourself which sounds better and how digital can sound different?
This new GoldNote streaming Dac from Italy looks like a winner as well. I believe it will be priced around $2500 and available in August. I'm not really familiar with GoldNotes products
The Bel Canto ran for about 18 hours straight, which probably isn’t enough burn in, but at least it got a good work out in. I decided to start the A/B testing.
*First test: Bel Canto (using analog out to integrated) vs. Auralic Mini (using analog out to integrated) - Using Roon for both tests, and it’s not even close. The built-in DAC on the Bel Canto far exceeds that of the Auralic. Details, high/low freq. response were much better, and a much more "meaty" sound. Not surprised by the results, as the Auralic isn’t really designed to be a Dac/Streamer.
*Second test: Bel Canto (Coax out to Mytek Liberty) vs. Auralic Mini (Coax out to Mytek Liberty) Audioquest Forest Coax cables (2) used for each output. Roon was used for both tests again. The Mytek has two coaxial inputs, so I was able to do the testing together, just switching one input on the Mytek. Almost identical results as above, but the differences were a bit more subtle. Freq response were about the same, but still got a more full "meaty" sound from the Bel Canto.
*Third test: Bel Canto (analog out to integrated) vs. Auralic Mini (coax out to Mytek). The slight edge goes to the Auralic w/ Mytek. This was how I was listening before purchasing the Bel Canto. I had hopes that the Bel Canto alone would be at the least equivalent, but not the case so far. The Bel Canto may need another 50+ hours until it’s fully burned in, and then I can do the tests again.
*All tests above, the Bel Canto was using a wired connection (only option) and the Auralic Mini was using WiFi. I did not test the Auralic with a wired connection, since I only have one ethernet cable/connection in my room, and wanted to listen to both streamers simultaneously, without have to disconnect the Bel Canto.
However, I liked the sound better from both Streamers to DAC from the second test and 1/2 of the third test, than using the Bel Canto’s DAC alone. I was hoping the Bel Canto would replace the Mytek entirely, but after listening (of course only briefly) it’s going to difficult for me to not want to keep the Mytek in the chain.
To sum up, the Bel Canto is not quite the all-in-one I was hoping for, although it’s still very capable. As a streamer compared to the Auralic Mini, it’s a clear upgrade. Now I need to decide if I want to try a different DAC/Streamer, or just be content using the Bel Canto w/ Mytek, as it is a nice overall improvement.
Another option would be to look at upgrading from the Mytek, keeping the Bel Canto as a streamer, although this was not my original plan, but I know that is where the most further improvement will be had.
In order of best sq in my system (just to reiterate the above): 1. Bel Canto to Mytek: A+ 2. Auralic Mini to Mytek: B+ 3. Bel Canto direct to Integrated: B 4. Auralic Mini direct to Integrated: C-
I have been looking for a DAC plus Streamer plus music server plus Roon plus MQA combination, either separately or combined, for some time now. I have been reading a lot of reviews and comparisons. Products by Matrix, Benchmark, PS Audio, Roon, Mytek, Minidsy, Denafrips, Innous, Bryston, and others.
I live in Oklahoma where there is no audio store that contains these products to review.
I depend on user knowledge obtained from the internet in forums, retail reviews, and audio magazines, to help me make a decision as to what is good and how they compare. I realize that this is not as good as actually hearing the product in a live room, but I have to do what I can. I will eventually purchase what I want from a dealer that sells the unit with a 30-day return policy with only return shipping cost by me. I will NEVER purchase any product with a “restocking “ charge. I will not buy if this is the case.
The above information is to explain why I have posted the following:
I have a complaint about individuals who find it necessary to get off topic and rant about company A or B selling said reviewed products and implying that all they are trying to do is sell, sell, sell. This is BS and asinine. These are people who have been able to compare more products than you or I will ever be able to compare. With the ability of the internet to be able to read about every product made from all perspectives, they are an additional asset to use. As long as they are upfront about their business connection to these products, I will treat their help with the respect they deserve.
Anyone who automatically berates these people who are trying to help and educate the public, just because they are financially linked to the products, labels everyone who works in the retail industry as liars and crooks. Since everyone, and I mean everyone, knows this is not true, their opinion is not worth the time it takes to read, nor the time it takes to forget.
Firststone guy, we think you are defending us, so if you are thank you.
As mentioned previously we have 13 and one time 15 out of the recommended dac streamers on Audiostreams list which does give us a pretty good idea on the sound of many components and comparisons of one vs the other.
Personally we are not surprised with the OP's findings on the Bel Canto the specs on that particular piece were not too mind blowning and yes there is more to a dac then just the chip set, but overall we had our doubts on that one. The dac on the Aries Mini was more for convenience so no suprises there,
We don't understand why the OP didn't just move to the Brooklyn Bridge which sounds better than the Liberty will doing the streaming natively?
We are thinking more strongly about the Gold Note as that piece may be a very nice dac streamer with inputs. the Lumin D2 sounds fantastic but is only a streamer, the Mytek is awesome but the sound of the Mytek is a bit on the clean clear side and sometimes people want a warmer sounding piece.
We love the sound of the Ifi DSD pro and feature set, the only issue with that one is the Roon endpoint is taking forever to get, although you can stream Tidal directly.
So Firstone guy we actually don't get a lot of people ordering from us.
The reason we post is that we do have great experience with a lot of dacs and streamers as computer audio/streaming is a passion for us.
While we do sell analog systems, our passion is the future which is digital and sreaming and not tape decks, reell to reel, or records.
We also don't deny analog can sound great but analog lacks the spontanousness of having instant music and a never ending supply of new artists not to mention the ability to make playlists.
Bel Canto is being returned, and I'm still in the 30-day window obviously, so no shipping or restocking fees, phew!
I am going with the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge, and yes @audiotroy you were right.
Originally I didn't want to go with the Brooklyn Bridge - only because I didn't need all the extra features it provides, but now I think that it'll come in handy later on, if I decide to change my system (which I do frequently). I'm sure the BB would make a decent preamp if I wanted to upgrade to a separate amp, instead of using the integrated.
Good luck with the Brooklyn Bridge. I like it’s DAC, but had nothing but problems with the streamer. I could not get it to connect over Wi-fi. My Wi-Fi has the same network names for both 2.4 and 5ghz. Mytek says to connect to 2.4, but both show up with no way to know which is which. And no matter which one I selected it did not work. The USB flash drive ability was useless. It stuttered and stopped even with fast USB 3.0 sticks. Their only recommended flash drive is not sold in the US. Ethernet streaming stalls and stutters and sounds lousy. I hooked up a micro-rendu to the usb in and used the same Ethernet cable and everything worked perfectly. Mytek support was useless. Both my dealer and I contacted them. The dealer is exchanging the Brooklyn Bridge for the Brooklyn DAC and refunding the difference. Maybe I just got a dud. I kept saying to the dealer and Mytek that probably all it needs is a firmware update, but I was tired of being an unpaid beta tester.
+1 on the Mytek. I used a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ in my main system for quite some time before swapping in a PS Audio DirecStream DAC. I still use the Mytek in a secondary system. It is a very clean sounding DAC with lots of useful functionality that is easy to access and understand. The built in headphone amp is very good and it also is a very capable preamp if you don't have a ton of devices. It is still one of my all time favorites. Cheers.
Well a few things have changed, but I did receive the Brooklyn Bridge. As expected, it outperforms the Bel Canto easily.
I had the Bridge connected to my integrated (Yamaha A-S2100) initially, but knew I could use it as a preamp too, so took the integrated out and hooked it up to my back up amp, NuForce STA200. This took the SQ up a notch which was surprising, to say the least. $499 amp vs. $3500 integrated.
As a preamp, the detail & clarity was much better, wider soundstage too. The Yamaha is much warmer sounding that the NuForce, which usually isn’t a problem/issue but it was just too much for my taste. My Spendor A4s are on the warm side of neutral, but this was never an issue when I was using the Mytek Liberty with the Yamaha. Strange is all I can say. I assumed both Mytek Dacs would have the same signature.
The STA200 did lack in the bottom end though, compared to the Yamaha, so I found a good deal on a used Wyred4Sound ST-1000 MKII amp, and the bottom end is back to where I like it! The W4S is also much more quiet than the NuForce and Yamaha (and more powerful too).
Really loving the Bridge w/ W4S combo, which on paper, most would assume to be too clinical sounding, but it’s a great match with the Spendors.
Anyways - I found the right streaming DAC for me, but also made some unexpected changes along the way too. That’s hardly a surprise for those of you who know me :)
For all those curious about DACs, the Arizona AV Club is partnering with several manufacturers and dealers to produce a DAC shootout on Saturday August 24th 11am to 3pm.
The event will be held at Acoustic Designs 16074 N. 78th Street, Suite B104, Scottsdale, AZ 85260.
The following DACs will be present:
Schiit Yggdrasil
Chord Qutest
Benchmark DAC3
iFi Audio Pro iDSD
PS Audio DirectStream
Holo Audio Spring DAC2
Jolida Glass FX DAC
NuPrime Evolution DAC
L.K.S. DAC MH-DA004
Line Magnetic
The DACs will be played in an acoustically treated room on a reference system consisting ofFocal Maestro Utopia Evosdriven bySAEandAcoustic Researchgear.
If you have any interest in hearing well regarded DACs on a top tier system don't miss this event! There is a $10 entry fee. RSVPs are appreciated due to limited seating; multiple sessions will be available. There will also be a speaker fromChordpresent to talk about their technology.
I have heard the new Auralic g1 ,and the Lumen d-2 with new Sboostermk-2 power supply and imo the Lumin by far ismore rich and more natural sounding more prat. I had to mention the Sbooster mk-2 power supply forprice wise with power supply they both are around $2800 retail , the Auralic is very respectable the Sabre dac sounds different then the Wolfson dacs.
Over the last few months, I did get a chance to test out a few Streamer/DACs for comparison, the Meridian 218, Lumin D2, Lumin T2, and Mytek Brooklyn+. These were connected to a Luxman 509X (using AQ WEL RCA interconnects) and ML 11A speakers.
All except the Brooklyn+ were both Streamer + DAC and worked extremely well with Roon. I used the Lumin T2’s digital/USB out to the Brooklyn+ in for comparison which worked really well.
- Meridian 218 was clear, crisp yet smooth, and surprising musical, though lacked a bit of body and soundstage. Most Meridian products unfortunately are limited to 24/96 through network, although MQA is fully supported at higher resolution through the analog out. Also no DSD and RAAT isn’t supported so you cannot group the 218 with other Roon RAAT enabled devices (wasn’t an issue for me). If you are in the market for a lower priced DAC/streamer and aren’t into DSD or higher resolution formats, it’s worth a listen. Since MQA and the Roon team spun out of Meridian there is great support built in. MQA was fantastic. - Lumin D2, very smooth, warm, though felt the soundstage, air between instruments, and openness was lacking a tad compared to the others. Definitely a DAC/streamer that you can listen to over a long period of time without fatigue. Also, extremely simple to setup and never had a hiccup. Lumin and Roon work together hand-in-hand. Awesome experience. - Lumin T2, very open, clear, crisp, yet smooth with a wide soundstage. Simply put the best all-in-one you can get in my opinion if you are into a more neutral and transparent sound. Also, it incorporates some high end features as a standalone streamer and DAC, supporting DSD512. I used Roon to upconvert to DSD512 and it worked and sounded great. Also, the digital out support is amazing with full featured USB and digital outs that works seamlessly with Roon and the Lumin app. - Mytek Brooklyn+, unfortunately I couldn’t get the bridge to do a full apples-to-apples comparison, but I had both the Mytek and T2 at the same time so ran USB out from the T2 to Brooklyn+, worked awesome. Overall, I was really surprised at how warm and musical the Mytek was. The sound was "meatier" and had more substance than the T2, but lacked the soundstage and instrument separation. One issue I had, which I could not get over, was that you have to manually turn off the MQA filter to listen to PCM and turn it back on when listening to MQA. For non-MQA PCM, I was hoping the MQA filter would sound as good as the other native filters, but in my opinion it did not.
Although the T2 is a bit higher on the price point if you can score a deal on one sub $4K, closer to the $3K budget (which is feasible), I would recommend it UNLESS you have a very transparent system.
In terms of Bel Canto, I have heard their streamer has inferior DAC side than their standalone DAC (DAC 2.7). On the higher end side, I have heard their Black EX pre/DAC and it was fantastic, but it better be for it’s very high price point.
EDIT: I should have noted that this is just my opinion, everyone's ears and systems are different.
I enjoyed your review of the 4 Streamer/DACs. I need help with your comment about the Lumin T2, “ would recommend it UNLESS you have a very transparent system”. I have the following: Pass Labs x150.8 amp, Martin Logan Expression ESL 13A electrostatic speakers, and Marantz AV7703 preamp (whose Dac I will bypass with a new streamer/dac). This could be classified as a transparent system; I am not sure how transparent “very transparent” is but it might fit this category.
I have a few questions: Why would a more neutral and transparent sounding Lumin T2 be a disadvantage over the other dacs? What is the meaning of “too transparent”, not your words but mine? If less transparent is an advantage, what would your second choice DAC be and why?
For anyone else reading this inquiry, I would love to hear your experienced input. I am in the market for any do-it-all streamer/dac/MQA for less than $6000. Feel free to give any opinion and why.
@firstonetallguy, I should have added “neutral” and transparent. The T2 is on the neutral side, so if your system is neutral then it may be too much of the same thing, which some people may like. Totally a matter of preference.
It doesn’t seem like your system is super neutral so the T2 may be a good fit. The other thing to mention is that I compared the T2 to my Marantz 8805 and found the Marantz to be warmer, a littler fuller sounding, and had a tad wider soundstage though less accurate (using HEOS and Tidal). The T2 had higher resolution, was crisper, and was more accurate. Marantz in general is on the warmer side. Though the 8805 has a different architecture than the 7703, the 8805 has dedicated HD boards.
If you do end up keeping the Marantz as your preamp, then make sure you use the multi-channel inputs since those are the only ones that pass a direct untouched signal. PM if you want to discuss further.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
