Jacked on the contrary some people may prefer the Teac’s Akm vs the Lumin’s Wolfson, it is really a matter of taste we wouldn’t say the Teach isn’t good.
Personally we prefer the Mytek Brooklyn Bridge Plus over the D2 and we prefer the Lumin T2 over the Mytek so it all comes down to taste.
For the ESS guys who prefer a warmer sound the Lumin allows transcoding to DSD which generally makes the Dac a bit warmer.
So we would say Mytek for $3k and Lumin for $4.5k as the T2 is far better than the D2.
Dave and Troy
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OP the Ifi DSD is a remarkable little guy sonically, it does have a few quirks and isn't Roon ready at the momment but boy does it sound really good.
Audioman, how do you know anything definative about the 2.7 Dac which is a dac and not a streaming dac? As per sound quality vs anything else what you personally like in your system may not translate the same way into other peoples systems. The sound quality of a dac will also depend on how you are feeding it.
Just went to the Matrix audio site and their dacs do seem nice, but it doesn't seem that they are doing anything really different than the excellent Mytek Brooklyn Bridge which is an American company the Matrix are Chinese made, both use the same ESS chip and offer similar features with the Mytek offering Roon compatibility which is a major advantage for some.
As per the Cambridge it is a nice unit but not up to the same sonic standards as the other players listed above.
We used to sell it and the Lumin at $2,300.00 just killed it.
Your top contenders should be in no pariticular order
Mytek Brooklyn Bridge clean detailed, excellent headphone stage, analog inputs, analog volume control, MQA, Roon capable
Lumin D2: a great streamer, warm, full bodied great app, Roon and MQA
Teac we haven't played with this one, so no comment.
Auralic G1 no idea on the level of the dac but Auralic does make excellent products with both MQA and Roon capability.
Personally we love the sound quality of the Ifi DSD it fantastic we use it with a Roon endpoint so not an issue for us for native Roon, but sonically just amazing sounding if you want warm and very three dimensional this little guy throw a gigantic soundstage and is insanly flexibile.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Rbach, it has nothing to do with us trying hard to make or not make a sale. One of the facts in this industry are there are market leaders and products which continue to endure and set a precedent.
Wether or not you like Mcintosh, it is a classic brand, same as B&W or Kef.
Lumin was the first major streaming company. When the A1 came out it was the defacto standard for what a streaming product could be and set the standard for what most people want: a good easy to use app, the most requsted streaming sources, airplay, over the air updates, musical sound quality, a digital output.
Today there are a ton of good choices but remember the company that got the ball rolling.
Also we have our favorite brands just like any dealer, or consumer.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Interesting post Musiclovers Audio an Ayre dealer.
We have heard the Codex and quite frankly it is a very nice $2k dac personally we would take the Ifi DSD over the Ayre any day of the week, the combination of tubes and upconverting to high res DSD is awesome sounding and extremely musical also with its multitude of filters you can have your digital sounding anyway your like
The Mytek is also a sweet little dac, not quite as bloomy as the ifi but an exceptional all around performer.
And if you are going to spend $2,500.00 on a Codex and another $1,200 to $2,500.00 on an appropriate streamer, and a digital cable you are going to be in the $5k price range, and then you have wonderful class leaders like the Lumin T2.
Kren the Wolfson Dac is indeed an older dac, just like the Burr Brown PCM 1792 that is used in the Bel Canto, the same chip is used in the brand new $8k Naim NDX II so the take away is unless you are processing to DSD 256 to 512 or higher res PCM the dac chip is just one part of the equation.
Lumin uses the Wolfson because it is a very analog sounding dac chip.
We had a Lumin A1 traded in and it easily sounded as good as many of our modern dacs, just lacking a bit or air or prescence compared to the more modern Lumin T2 or some of the other dacs.
So yes it is nice to have the latest chip set back a dac's overall sound is affected just as much by the analog output stage, the dac's filters and jitter spectum and clocking.
For this reason the Lumin D2 is still considered one of the best sounding dac/streamers in its price point. Lumin is a divison of a large engineering company that builds broadcast gear and high performance cable boxes, they have a far greater engineering pool to call upon and resources than most high end audio companies, which is one of the reasons that Lumin continues to be such a big player in our little world.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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Yes Rbach we are using our super powers to convince everyone.
As per the list we have 13 out of of the list of 51 dac/streamers mentioned which is not too shabby:
We sell Naim, Nad, Lumin, Krell. Mytek, Ifi, Cary so we actually do know what most of these devices sound like
If you consider that we used to have the Cambridge models that would have given us 15 out of 51.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
rbach, you are welcome. Dude we have a ton of experience and if you look at Twittering Machines list of recommended streamers we have 13 and at one time had 15 of his list of 51, that is a pretty good indication that we know how many of these dacs sound. We also have many other dacs, severs, that were not listed on his list as some of these are not streaming dacs. The one thing that you should know is that a reviewer has to go by memory they test and send back, test and send back and compare only a handful of products at a time, while we have multiple products in the same store and sound rooms. If you actually look at our line listings you will see we have one of the most diverse selections of digital products out there, so we can offer our clients the best advice to fit their needs. You can choose to work with us or not but the facts are the facts that we got a boat load of these products. http://audiodoctor.com/wp/our-brands/we are evaluating Ifi and have the Ifi DSD pro, not working with Aurender at this time, and have add Golden Ear and still have PSB. So in terms of selection that is a lot of great digital. As per comparing products to ones we don't carry we usually have people bringing in dacs, and amps when they evaluate loudspeakers so we do get a chance to hear a lot of competiting products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Jworth, what you are missing is the title of this post which is for streaming dacs. The Roon Nucleus is not a streaming dac just a streamer.
The other thing you will find out in the forums is that the Nuclues including the plus are actually not that popular compared to the Aurender and Innous streamers which are both much more technologically advanced products with the exception being the Aurender is not a Roon compatible product.
In particular the Innous streamer offers far better performance than the Nucleus plus as the Nuculeus is based on a Nuc computer vs the Innous which is a completely custom device with a custom mother board which has been desinged to provide a low noise/low jitter digital output via both USB and Ethernet, a low noise processor, as well as an ethernet incomming noise filter, and a state of the art power supply design.
If you love your Nucleus we would recommend trying a demo of the Innous Zenith which is a bit more expensive, howerver, we feel you will really be blown away by the massive sonic difference between the two steamers.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers |
Jworthy, the reason that Innous uses the chip set they do has to do with noise. The more noise generated into the motherboard, the greater the likelyhood that the music data will be interefered with.
It is for this reason that Innous uses the parts they do, if you look at what they have accomplished in their designs you will realize the extent they have gone to make a completely quiet box, that does not mean mechanical noise it means radiated electrical noise, the motherboard’s design, the case shielding the power supply, the specific chip set the layout of the wiring and the type of wiring all are important factors in creating a noise free design.
In the case of the Mark Three units Innous’s design team went over every part on the MK II’s motherboard with a noise probe and then had each chip removed if it wasn’t essential, that along with the subsititution of parts and a custom noise filter are all factors.
The Nucleus is not a particularly well conceived product from a company that has previously never made made hardware but is a software company. We looked at the Nuclueus and passed on it based on the fact that the design didn't bring anything to the table other than a fast processor.
Innous is now on their third iteration of their designs. while the Nuclueus is a first generation product.
Innous started the same way that many companies did by assembling a server out of readily available parts and tweaking the bios that was 2009!
Fast forward ten years, custom motherboards, custom cases, tweeked up ssds, ethernet incomming and outgoing noise filters, custom software, reclocking boards with 1ppb jitter levels, custom reclocking on the ethernet, custom power supplies from two to six rail designs and everything is made to be the best sounding product for the price point.
For these reasons Innous is growing and growing and growing, they have outgrown their production facilities three times allready.
We know what we hear and the Innous servers definately produce a more analog like sound, factor in easy to use, Roon endpoint and Core, easy to setup and you will see why they are taking over the market.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Innous dealers |
Rbach you just joined and all seven of your posts are about us, how flattering. Do you have any experience in listening to, setting up or comparing servers? As per Innuos, please do your homework, we represent the brand because when we compared their servers to Aurender, Baetis, Naim, Sotm, stock and modified Mac Mini computers, the sound quality was better. Currently we have three $15-20k servers in the shop a Memory Player 64, a Baetis Reference and a Innuous Statement. Want to come over and take a listen to see for yourself which sounds better and how digital can sound different? https://darko.audio/2019/02/a-short-film-about-the-innuos-zen-mk3/
https://youtu.be/PrKFvGTVmiM
https://www.hifiplus.com/articles/innous-zenith-mkii-music-server/?page=3
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Innous Dealer |
Nonoise, this is an interesting piece. Peter Mednick is a brilliant designer so the piece might sound really good.
We heard this along with the matching amplifier driving a pair of compact Elac loudspeakers and the sound was good but a bit bright.
However we may have to bring in one for testing as the feature set seems very good and we are Elac dealers.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Firststone guy, we think you are defending us, so if you are thank you.
As mentioned previously we have 13 and one time 15 out of the recommended dac streamers on Audiostreams list which does give us a pretty good idea on the sound of many components and comparisons of one vs the other.
Personally we are not surprised with the OP's findings on the Bel Canto the specs on that particular piece were not too mind blowning and yes there is more to a dac then just the chip set, but overall we had our doubts on that one. The dac on the Aries Mini was more for convenience so no suprises there,
We don't understand why the OP didn't just move to the Brooklyn Bridge which sounds better than the Liberty will doing the streaming natively?
We are thinking more strongly about the Gold Note as that piece may be a very nice dac streamer with inputs. the Lumin D2 sounds fantastic but is only a streamer, the Mytek is awesome but the sound of the Mytek is a bit on the clean clear side and sometimes people want a warmer sounding piece.
We love the sound of the Ifi DSD pro and feature set, the only issue with that one is the Roon endpoint is taking forever to get, although you can stream Tidal directly.
So Firstone guy we actually don't get a lot of people ordering from us.
The reason we post is that we do have great experience with a lot of dacs and streamers as computer audio/streaming is a passion for us.
While we do sell analog systems, our passion is the future which is digital and sreaming and not tape decks, reell to reel, or records.
We also don't deny analog can sound great but analog lacks the spontanousness of having instant music and a never ending supply of new artists not to mention the ability to make playlists.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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