Walker Audio Talisman - $225 - it works.
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They used to sell a hand held demagnetizer to demagnetize recording tape. Radio Shack sold one for about $10, you passed it over a reel of tape to erase it. I threw mine out long ago. If it demagnetizes why wouldn`t it work over Lp`s same as the super expensive ones they sell now? Would like to find one to see if it would. Len W |
Records are made from non-magnetic materials. They can't be magnetised so there's no need to waste time and money trying to "demagnetise" them. And please don't dish up the nonsense about transition metal ions in the printing ink on the label. These are present in such low concentrations as to have a negligible effect. Now I'll await the hordes of buyers of demagnetisers who spent several hundred dollars and definitely heard an improvement. |
Yes, the concept is valid. No, you don't have to spend much at all, not even $200. The results do vary from lp to lp. Mag/demag can have a profound effect on tubes and cables, but don't try this while they are in the system. Remove them and do the deed on a table a good distance from your cartridge. With digital discs the results are more uniform and profound. Supposedly, the Tourmaline treatment stuff (negative ions) has even better results but needs to be applied more often. I haven't tried this myself but there is some good evidence to support the claimed results. |
As Tzh21y says, I've had great success with the Walker Audio Talisman and use it as part of my regular LP playing routine. I also use it on my cables and speaker dynamic drivers weekly. Last week, we had a group of 35 members of our local audio group together. The topic for the meeting was to share tweaks you find effective. The system was an all digital system and I demo'd applying the Talisman to CDs. Everyone heard a very positive improvement in the sound. Then I demo'd applying the Talisman to the cables and speaker drives. Unanimously, everyone heard yet a further very positive improvement in the sound of the system. Highly recommended for vinyl, CDs, and your system cables and speaker drivers. It really does work. . |
I have a GENEVA brand bulk audio/video tape eraser. I bought it for $99 about ten years ago and don't know if it is still available. It does make a difference. The sound is cleaner/clearer and dynamics are improved. LP's do get magnetized. I've read that it is not the ink on the label, it is the metal in the vinyl formula that is used to make it black. Over time it picks up a charge. I don't really know the how or why, but I do notice an improvement. I demag an LP once after I clean it. It is part of my cleaning regimen. I also use the Cardas sweep LP once a week to degauss the system. The more revealing a system is, the more noticeable this stuff is, IMO. |
Dear Rushton, when you say it works, what could possibly be happening that improves LPs, CDs, cables, and most of all speakers!? (we do know that cone speakers depend upon magnets in order to work. You don't want to demagnetize them.) I have great respect for Walker, but I remain skeptical. Was your group experiment carried out under double blind conditions? |
I know what I heard and it was so night and day like, that if everyone had one, there would be more people listening to vinyl, that much of a difference, crazy as it might sound. I do not believe in a lot of the snake oil but I would say the furutech demag is a keeper. I have not heard the Talisman but if it is anything like the Furutech, I will be getting mine soon. lol Syntax! There is some crazy VooDoo going on for sure. |
Another vote for the device Dan linked, heh!, and I fully agree it's twice as effective as the Walker Talisman for half the price. That's not hard to understand. What's stronger, a handheld magnet or an AC powered electro-magnet? :) WARNING: unplug this thing when it's not in use. Ours heats up quickly whether the power button is depressed or not. It has a thermal shutoff that's worked so far but I'm not trusting that (in a cheaply made device) to prevent burning my house down. That said, the differences from demagging LP's are clearly audible to Paul and me, no double blind test required. For a mere $100 anyone can try it for themselves. If that's alot of money to you than your system probably isn't revealing enough for you to hear the difference. I wouldn't recommend it in those circumstances. P. S. It provides audible and visible improvements on DVD/Blu-Ray discs also. The video improvements are measurable with tools as simple as a DVE, Avia or similar video test disc. Wider, flatter grey scale and more accurate color renditions. Scoff and call it voodoo or enjoy superior PQ and audio, we each choose our own form of entertainment. ;) |
Dan I will look into it. For the longest time I associated mistracking with the distortion I was hearing. I took this record to the local audiophile shop. It was the new 200 gram Stowkowski Classic Reissue, track was Smetana the Moldau. He put it on and I heard the same distortions I heard at home. The he said, "wait a minute" He proceeded to put the record on the Furutech demag. Moments later, back on the table, distortion gone, period. It was a revelation to me. The strings sounded natural, cymbals sounded better, horns sounded better, piano sounded great. It was like a veil was lifted. The thing I do not like about the Furutech is the cost and the bulkiness of it. It sure did do good things, great things to vinyl playback. |
Dan I will look into it. For the longest time I associated mistracking with the distortion I was hearing. I took this record to the local audiophile shop. It was the new 200 gram Stowkowski Classic Reissue, track was Smetana the Moldau. He put it on and I heard the same distortions I heard at home. The he said, "wait a minute" He proceeded to put the record on the Furutech demag. Moments later, back on the table, distortion gone, period. It was a revelation to me. The strings sounded natural, cymbals sounded better, horns sounded better, piano sounded great. It was like a veil was lifted. The thing I do not like about the Furutech is the cost and the bulkiness of it. It sure did do good things, great things to vinyl playback. |
like Syntax, i have the Acoustic Revive RL-30 MkIII disc demag unit. i also have the Walker Talisman, a RTR tape head demag unit, and also a Tourmaline bead Hair Dryer device with some special tweaks. all these devices have a positive effect on Lp play. easy to hear, repeatable benefits. by far the item with the largest benefit is the Tourmaline Hair Dryer. unfortunately it also only has about a 15 minute window of full effect. so for a 33rpm Lp it won't quite last the whole side. my personal opinion is that these effects are not related directly to the Lp itself being magnatized. it has more to do with the level of static build up on the surface of the Lp and how effectively any device neutralizes that static and for how long. possibly the degree of neutralization is inverse to the duration. i say this based on the reaction of my son-in-law the Phd in Physics who was doing some lab work for his Doctoral Thesis 4 years ago while i was messing with this stuff. his part of the lab work had to do with getting the proper readings from some test gear and he had found that by demagnatizing the glass surface of his test gear he could get more accurate readings. he said that the static held the micro-dust onto the surface of the glass and when de-mag'd the dust released temporarily and the readings were more accurate. his guess was that the same process accounted for what we heard. he also said that if someone would fund the research he could possibly prove the guess in a lab. |
The idea is to start with the device (powered up) very close to the object. Circle it s-l-o-w-l-y around the object while s-l-o-w-l-y increasing the distance. As the field slowly changes position and weakens, molecules in the object orient themselves randomly, just what we want. The worst thing to do would be to start with the device close to the object and move it away fast in a straight line or power it off close to the object. That will leave the molecules in the object oriented in the same direction, just what we don't want. |
Sarcher30, glad you're enjoying this poor man's Furutech demag! IME and Dan's it's more effective and longer lasting than a $200 Walker Talisman. Whether it matches the $1800 Furutech is untested, but as they use the same technology... The usage I described is how machinists demag tools, drill bits, pieces of work, etc. FWIW, it's what my partner (an industrial scientist with a PhD in metallurgy) and his father (a master machinist) both recommended. Gotta go realign some coffee molecules! |
Tzh21Y, if you have an opportunity to compare results with the Furutech we'd all love to hear about it. I can't reiterate too strongly, PLEASE unplug this cheap, made in C***a doohickey whenever you're not actively using it. It overheats quickly, so please don't burn your house down. This is why I haven't openly recommended it. |
Doug, I am really surprised to read that your nephew thinks the effect may be to reduce or alter static charge. Can you ask him how that could be, when one generally thinks of magnetic fields as they relate to ferrous materials and not at all to static electricity? I would love to understand more about this. Any "molecules" that are affected would have to be iron-containing ones and thus inorganic (generally meaning, molecules not containing carbon or nitrogen; altho some organic molecules, e.g., hemoglobin, can hold ferrous ions based on charge). Surprised also to learn that there is iron, or ferrous compounds, in the vinyl of an LP; that's the first fact that leads me to believe there could be something to this. But ferrous materials in CDs and DVDs? OK. I will be the demag soon. |
Doug, yes; i did post that my son-in-law, when wroking on his Phd in Physics 5 years ago, worked with eliminating 'surface tension' on the test gear he was using to get the degree of precision of measurement he needed. he told me that static energy held micro dust particles to a glass surface that would reduce the accuracy of his test gear. he also told me that certain types of testing gear use a 'de-static' process automatically to do this. when i showed him what the Tourmaline guns and even the demagnatizers were doing he thought the most logical explanation was related to micro dust and static electricity, not magnatized media. to me it also makes sense. removing minute dust should improve the laser reading, stylus groove interface, or whatever. and it seems like a much more plausable explanation than something magnetic. i want to again mention that he was just guessing at the time. he said if someone would fund the research he could likely prove his guess in a lab. my son-in-law got his Phd, did his post doc work, and is now a 'Scientist' building/inventing measurment devices for industry. i should ask him the same question again and see if he still thinks the same about it. |
I purchased the hand held magnet that Dan recommended. I am very pleased with it. I have left it on for several hours and it did not even get warm to the touch. It looks like they fixed the problem that Doug warned us about. Doug also said, "The idea is to start with the device (powered up) very close to the object. Circle it s-l-o-w-l-y around the object while s-l-o-w-l-y increasing the distance." Doug, I am hopeful you could expand on this. Would "very close" mean 1/2"? Would "circle slowly" mean 1 revolution per second? Would "increasing the distance" mean 1" per second, the whole process taking 5 seconds? I leave the record in its Mo-Fi sleeve so that when starting very close I will not accidentally scratch the record. Great tweek. Thanks to everyone. |
George, those are great questions and I look forward to reading how Doug and Dan use their devices. I have a bulk tape eraser which I use to demagnetize LPs. After the record goes through my cleaning procedure, I put it in a new inner sleeve and then on a flat surface. I then turn on the tape eraser and start rotating it very slowly clockwise starting at the label and moving outward keeping the distance constant - about 1/8th of an inch from the record surface. I spend about a minute and three revolutions from label to outer edge and then flip the record over and do the other side. |
George, glad to hear yours doesn't overheat. Paul even replaced our on/off switch and it still does, probably a short circuit in the coils... cheap POS! "Close" means as close as you safely can. A magnetic field obeys the rule of inverse squares, so the closer you get the stronger the effect. I let the backs of my fingers brush the object being treated, so barely a cm away to start. Keeping the LP in a sleeve to prevent scratching is wise. Moving "slowly" for us means: - circling above the object at ~4-5 seconds per revolution, and - receding from the object so that it takes ~15 seconds to get from ~1cm to ~1m. Paul just mentioned another trick: start with the POS flat (parallel to the object) but gradually/steadily tilt it as you circle and recede, such that by the time you're ~1m away it's "aimed" at ~90 degrees to the object. This is another way to weaken the magnetic field relative to the object, so tilt it SLOWLY. Chanting your mantra is optional. ;) Pradeep & Peter, we do both sides though I'm not sure why. My guess is that it's less a matter of "sides" than that repeating the procedure doubles the odds of affecting any given molecule. I haven't compared results vs. doing just one side but I don't care since it costs me no useful time. I generally multi-task, demagging one LP while the Loricraft is vacuuming another. Demagging doesn't steal many useable minutes from my otherwise thrilling life. We demag discs just before we wet clean, on the untested hypothesis that reducing magnetic attractions might aid the cleaning process. That's speculative but if we must demag sometime, why not then? |
This topic is really quite interesting, and I am trying to brush up on the physics of it. One further bit of advice that I came across elsewhere was to be sure to turn on the demagnetizer when it is well away (>3ft, according to one source) from the object to be demagnetized. Then bring it in close and do as Doug describes. One source said to move the demag away from the magnet "slow, as molasses in January". I presume the author meant January in a cold climate. So the contrary experiment would be to deliberately use the demag incorrectly so as to magnetize the LP (in theory; if that is possible). All sources warn that incorrect use of a demagnetizer can result in magnetization, if that is a word. Magnetizing a demagnetized LP should make it sound "bad", if what one is hearing is actually due to magnetism. It would make for an interesting double-blind experiment. Moreover, one could respond to any non-believer that the reason they did not hear a big improvement after demagnetizing is that they did not do it right. Doug's directions and everything else I read about moving the demagnetizer away from the object slowly, etc, make me wonder about the Furutech. Isn't the Furutech like a big pancake maker? AFAIK, you insert the LP into the Furutech, turn it on, then remove the LP after it is "cooked". The Furutech does not effect a gradual change in physical distance between its plates and the LP surface. Perhaps instead it is programmed so that its field strength starts high and slowly is reduced until the demag process is completed, thereby effecting the same thing as physically moving a demagnetizer of constant field strength. |
