Tube-Curious/Pre-amp

I had that Atoll and I paired it with a Quicksilver Line Stage. In my opinion, that amp really needs a richer, more expansive tube preamp, such as something built around a 6SN7.

Here are 4 used options which, to my mind, all seem like good bets. Others on the forum may have additional thoughts.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649914968-blue-circle-bc21-tube-preamp/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649929030-schiit-freya-tube-hybrid-preamp-tung-sol-6sn7/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649926920-black-ice-audio-f360-tube-preamplifier/
https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649919944-don-sachs-model-2-line-stage-preamp/

I think you should consider used, hifishark search, all countries

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these were usa or canada only, from hifi shark, $1,600 usd max

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just listed https://reverb.com/item/64194711-conrad-johnson-pv10-tube-preamp?gspk=SGlmaXNoYXJrLVJldmVyYg%3D%3D&utm_campaign=Hifishark-Reverb&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=partnerstack-legacy

 

 

this one, Melos had a great reputation, my friend has one, I like it’s sound a lot. you would need to ask the seller questions, he may be assuming buyer knows it works well but he doesn’t say so. It has many inputs, including Phono which is great for first try of tubes.

 

Schiit Freya, only 3 inputs, no phono, seller says excellent ...

 

you would need to convince this seller to ship it. Phono in this one is probably just a convenience line level selector after a separate phono stage has done RIAA eq

 

This one, wider rack mount face, has a real phono stage, a bit scratched

 

now from Canada (remember to convert CAD to USD

I would get this Conrad Johnson, (or the Luxman below) recently certified seller says. phono stage, two outputs, tape loop ....

 

Luxman, nice stereo/mono/reverse mode switch, recapped ....

 

100v. needs a 120/100 step down transformer like my jvc turntable and friends Luxman TT. Don’t let that concern you, a good quality (not cheap) one, under $100. will be all you need.

 

Cary, (remote control is great for volume) possibly end of your intended price range.

need to find info to know more about it.

That Audible Illusions Modulus for $895 is a real good deal! The Melos for $500 is a good buy too! I'd take either over the Freya.

Hey guys, 

Thanks so much for all of these suggestions; my bad, I should have stated, I'm in the UK and don't fancy shipping pre-loved. Saying that, the suggestions have given me some good starting points.

@hilde45 thanks for the heads-up re: the Atoll, I appreciate where you're coming from regarding a pre-amp with a richer presentation.

@elliottbnewcombjr thanka for taking the time to list possible examples of what I should/could look at.

My system is streaming only, so don't need a phono stage, so not an issue if  a pre-amp doesn't have one.

I'll do a bit more reading around what has been suggested. 

Thanks again guys, been a great help 👍

I like looking, learning, often also looking for friends. Retired, have the time.

I often sort hifishark by country and sort for newly listed, jump on a great deal.

Across the channel?

a Dared

 

This might be just what you are looking for on your side of the pond!

 

A good tube preamp is a nice start to the world of vacuum tube sound, but feeding it into a a good tube amp will give you the whole tube experience. Not only do tubes potentially sound clearer to me than SS, but they also offer the opportunity to fine tune the sound by rolling the tubes to tailor it to your liking.

The Audible Illusions and Melos are both excellent vintage examples of lower cost entry level tube preamps that offered a convincing taste of the really good stuff. Some recapping may be in order if not previously done.

The Willsenton amps enjoy a fairly large happy following.  There's an entire Facebook group dedicated to those amps.

 

 

agree that don sachs unit is closest one will get to very pricey, truly top tier tube linestage performance at a reasonable price (about 2500 used)

otherwise, i always tell folks buy the best c-j (single ended) or audio research reference linestage (balanced) that you can afford

The recommendations above are average quality preamps.  The older Counterpoint preamps are much better and they can be upgraded to almost reference level.  The Melos is a nice sounding preamp but they have reliability issues are very few of us repair them any more.

 

Happy Listening.

@painter24 I predominantly listen to Jazz (all eras, all flavours) and am very interested to hear what tubes would bring me; I’ve casually read around, and the description of sound from reviewers and regular users does appeal to me greatly

Given this statement I’d strongly encourage you to go full bore and get a Willsenton tube integrated amplifier. The Triangle speakers are generally said to be tube amplifier friendly and easily driven.

I don’t know if their 300b SET would be suitable (Depends on several variables). They do have push-pull amplifiers that I believe would pair well with your speakers. Your jazz musicians will come to life via their recordings . This is a good path to take.A tube preamplifier is fine but a half step in my opinion if you are seeking the full tube experience.

Charles

Yes, a tube pre-amp paired to a solid state power amp is the best way to use tubes. Tube power amps that get it right are expensive, and maintaining a power tube complement can be a pain, to your wallet among other things.

My Van Alstine Transcendence RB10 preamp feeds a FirstWatt F8. The sound is both uncolored one way or the other and also musical.

I recently switched from a solid state system to tubes, moving from an NAD integrated amp (356BEE) as my preamp and a McIntosh MC2120 power amp to a a Rogue Audio RP-7 preamp and Rogue Stereo 100 tube power amplifier.  I first replaced the NAD with a Rogue RP-1 and was pleased by the difference a decent tube preamp.made in the sound quality: a few months later, I replaced the 44-year old McIntosh power amp with a Benchmark SS AHB2 power amp, which made a further improvement.  However, after listening to an all tube system—admittedly, further up the cost chain—I decided to replace both units with the Rogue Audio RP-7 preamplifier and the Stereo 100 Dark power amplifier, driving Fyne Audio F-702 speakers (made there in the UK, in Scotland).  The improvement over the initial upgrades was astounding.  The music seems much more clear, much more “organic” and “really there.”  (I listen to classical—Beethoven, Brahms, Schubert, Richard Strauss, and others, soft rock, vocals, and some jazz.). Having attended numerous live classical concerts over the years, my system now comes much closer to replicating live music—although it is still a good bit away from it.  Lateral dispersion and instrument placement is excellent, as is the depth of the sound stage.  I must do more listening and let the Stereo 100 fully “burn in,” but I—and my wife—are already very, very pleased by the sound the equipment is reproducing.  In my case, moving to a tube system achieved and even greater improvement in SQ than I had anticipated.

I have the JJ 243 tube preamp and love it. 

I've owned lots of preamps over many years, but my original version Freya (early adopter) with NOS GEs is a superb sounding preamp with features nothing else even comes close to. Runs quieter in its tube mode than most SS or passive preamps do without tubes, works beautifully with tube or SS amps (I use either a hand made Dennis Had Firebottle tube amp or more often a brilliant Pass XA-25), and costs less new than any US made anything else. It sort of has no actual competition in its class...it's just too inexpensive for many so-called audiophiles, but gets a "Class A" rating in Stereophile anyway. 

Why not look into hybrid integrated amps?  You could sell or trade your Atoll in.  I had a pair of bridged Pathos Classic One MK III's a few years ago that were quite nice and before that miscellaneous Chinese amps, Xindak and Consonace.  Soundwise, all were nice but reliability issues would preclude a recommendation on those Sino-amps.  And being in the UK, you have access to all of Europe and a better exchange rate.  Go to hifishark and type in "hybrid integrated" , both for sale and those already sold, for several possibilities

 

Icon Audio LA4? It’s local to you as well. 

This should do the trick 

 

I saw someone mentioned a Dared. If you can find a used Dared SL2000a I'd say it is a great true tube preamp if you are wanting to get your feet wet. They are sensitive to tube rolling so you can get a few different flavors out of it. Runs off a 5z4g rectifier or equivalent and a pair of 12at7's. It is so sensitive to tubes even the rectifier you choose will make a big difference. Only 2 inputs but has 2 outputs as well. Good internal components like Rubycons, auricaps, silver wiring inside..although some later models had different coupling caps than the auricaps, they sounded just as quiet and transparent though. They are of Chi-Fi nature but reliability was never an issue, mines over 12 years old and I still use it on occasion with no problems. I use an integrated amp mostly these days but I'll run the Dared thru the HT bypass when I'm in the mood for certain genres of music and want that little extra realism or roundness to the instruments. 

They don't pop up on the 2nd hand market much but when they do they usually go between 3 and $500. A lot of good preamps mentioned in this thread but with you saying you just wanna try out some tube sound I would go used and cheap if you can find a decent one..or I guess you could try new from a U.S. company if you can get a 30 or 60 day return policy. Just thought I'd give Dared a 2nd mention on the thread, I even had one of their "cheap" tube amps a long time ago..I had no complaints. 

They do have other tube preamps and amps to look at, some cheaper than others,  but I think the SL2000a is a great cheap, very quiet, tube preamp. I run mine thru an Arcam SA30 which is pretty quiet and transparent, with the tube pre it's still the same, just adds a little roundness to the instruments. Good luck, seems like a lot of good gear was brought up by members here. 

Wow, thanks for all the time spent replying to my OP, genuinely appreciated. I think I need to do more reading and research - lots of brands suggested I had no previous awareness of.

First decision I think will be pre-amp, or additional tube integrated and take it from there. Lots of time over Christmas 🎄😊

Thanks again everyone, and I hope you, and all your loved ones have a great Holiday. 

Much appeciated

L

The Atoll IN200 is a Integrated Amp' with a selection of user reviews that give it a very good appraisal, and makes it very clear, as a design and marketed product, it can punch well above its price range and compare as a contender to much more expensive other Brand Models.

It is also reported to have a capability of creating the perception it has the Imaging and Soundstaging being presented in a manner that reminds of the better Tube Designs in use.

This does lead to the notion, the IN200 has a leaning, that falls away from the usual, if thinking about how a SS Circuit can present.

How much the Pre-Section of the Integrated Design is responsible for this, is not too clear. This is the area that presents difficulties when talking about the exchange of the Pre-Amp Section for a Off Board Model to be used in its place.

Where is the Presentation wanting to be taken to:

1, A More Expansive Soundstage with greater perception of a separation for the imaging. ( Voluminous Ethereal Room Filling Sound )

2, A Richer Tone where more realism and honesty is perceived for certain elements of the performance. ( A Emphasis toward the Bass Frequencies)

3, A Further Journey into Transparency, where the perception of colouration is seemingly very difficult to detect. ( Clean Bass, with incisive Cut Off, with the perception that there has been a removal of subdued Mid, Upper Mid, High Frequencies.   

4, A Perception of a Noticeable Balance of all the above Three Traits having become more prominent.

On a constrained budget it will be difficult to create the presentation, that the in built pre' has been effortlessly outperformed/resolved, to the point the In Bult Pre', will become a less attractive option.

On a constrained budget it is possible to put a Pre' in place that will be noticeably different in how it performs in comparison to the Built In Pre'.

Where Valves are concerned a ECC 83 Valves in a Pre' can produce a Richness and in some cases a very muddy Bass.

The 6SN7 can be the Tune to create the Voluminous Room Filling Sound.

The Korg Tube can be the Tube to create the Transparency.

Boutique Components can further the impact for the better when used on circuits.

The Good News is that there are good quality Base Model Pre' Amp's that can be acquired at a sensible cost.

 Tube Rolling is very simplistic to achieve and also becomes a option. A Carefully Selected Component Swap Out can be achieved, with a little extra help if not trusting in oneself.

I suppose one very good condition is that there is Two Pre's to be available for use. The Built In Pre' to be used in conjunction with the new addition, as a comparison or alternative presentation.     
 

Since you are in the UK, May I suggest:
 

The first link is their blog where they post about designs and new developments. The second is a shop that represents them and should have gear to audition. Very fine components, well designed and built with top quality parts. I believe they are made to order and can be customized to your needs.

You sure about that 24?

With gear the usual set-up is the onboard pre-amp runs an external amplifier, hence the volume control & selection knobs.

At any rate IMHO you're getting the tail to wag the dog. Tube pre-amp, SS amp is the combo to go with.

Some info about matching preamps with amps:  

1) 

 

2) https://www.vtl.com/buying-guide/system-matching/

I think you have a number of good options to delve into the tube space.  FWIW, I'm using a SS amp (Electrocompaniet AW250R) along with a tube pre (Manley Neo Classic 300b) and absolutely love it.  Can't really say whether all tube would be better or not...haven't tried it yet...but can say it's a pretty nice combination.  

I picked mine up as a used/demo and got it for a reasonable price.  If I had to guess right now I'd say most likely as (if) I do future upgrades to components I'll be on the tube path...  Tubes rule...