Tube amps under $7500

"I look upon the pleasure which we take in a garden as one of the most innocent delights in human life. . . It gives us a great insight into the contrivance and wisdom of Nature, and suggests innumerable subjects for meditation."

Marcus Tullius Cicero 

What about an Audio Research REF 75SE….? That was my first foray into tube amps and it was a great place to start…! 

@jomonhifi If ARC Reference is where you START, where can you possibly END? One very notable and insightful contributor here has described his 40-year evolution through audiophilia which finally culminated with ARC Reference gear including DAC. Though I just noticed there is a REF 75SE listed on Agon at $5,650. 

Yes, Audio Research Ref75se.  I have been listening to mine (with an ARC Ref6 Preamp) for quite some time and with the right dac, speakers & cables, its been a couple years now that I have trouble listening to my system because the music keeps quickly distracting me - and sometimes keeps me up too late at night.  This system does require good source material though.  More than enough bass to satisfy me and for me my exactly the right balance of resolving technical detail and musicality.

@hickamore 

i am an ARC fan all the way. I started about 6 years ago with a pair of Classic 120 monoblocks. They replaced a pair of bridged Parasound HCA 2200ii. I also bought an HCA 3500 to try as well and sold all the Parasound amps. I later went to the REF 150 and then decided I wanted simple and got a GSi 75.  It was a fantastic integrated but was not enough for my Wilson Sophia. The bass would cut out at high volumes. I went back to separates and got a REF 75SE. Boy did the Sophias love that amp!  Never strained and so sweet sounding.  I highly encourage you to stick to the plan for a tube amp.  I tried some Wilson Alexia 1 last year and took the REF 75 SE with me to get the speakers.  The man had a brand new McIntosh 450wpc amp, forget the model #. We both like the REF 75 more and the output was the same!  I don’t know what it is about ARC wattage but with the REF 75’s power supply, you are set. The GSi 75 doesn’t have the same power supply and I would confirm with ARC about the VT80 SE before getting one.  The bias procedure on the REF 75s is super easy as you do it from the faceplate.  The 150s suck as you have to remove the cover and do on the board. REF 75s will always sell so as long as you get one at a fair price you have no worries.  Good luck!

@dhite71 

It may have been a MC462 Solid State Amplifier. I would think it is because it is solid state vs tubes. I am constantly surprised at how much solid state power you need to perform similarly to tube amps. I am also an ARC fan. 

I understood that you were looking for an amp on the warm side.  It is quite hard to guess what that means, as everyone has a different idea of just-the-right-amount of anything.  To me, Audio Research is decidedly on the cool, bright, and lean side of the spectrum of tube gear.  I respect the company for being consistent with its house sound, but, it is not the sound I personally favor.  I suggest that you listen to a few different amps and tell us which you liked or disliked, and why so, then perhaps it will help others make recommendations consistent with what you are looking for.

@larryi Indeed I would like to see how much a tube amp enhances the warmth, bloom, decay of those same qualities present in preamps. By this I mean something more to the Cary side (if they still made amps) than the ARC side. ALTHOUGH, I have been advised that over time, the ARC presentation will convince just about any ears that they have landed in the right spot. Another bit of advice has been that with my particular speakers (4 ohm with impedance dips in the bass), a high-current SS amp with a tube-like presentation (Coda S5.5, for example) is likely the best match. Also Aric maintains that his push-pull amp can drive Legacys, and many say ARC will drive anything. Since I'm not pulling the trigger before feeling confident that anarchy is not our national future, I hope to audition all serious candidates & am willing to travel to do so. And I realize that sometimes our suspicions or expectations can be overturned by experience. So I will be keeping an open mind.

+1 @hickamore 

But now you’ve got me cross-walking two separate lists: 

1) Countries with 100-120 volts /60 hz; and

2) Countries in the “Full Democracy” category of the Economist’s annual Democracy Index.

Alas, as of 2023, it’s just Canada, Australia, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, and Costa Rica.  If only we could get Ireland off that damn 230 volt grid!

Unlike the old days when solid state amps sounded grainy or harsh, modern amps are quite smooth and not at all harsh.  There are brands, like Accuphase and Rowland that are also on the warmish side.  But, what good tube amps deliver (meaning not all tube amps) is great dynamics at low volume (micro dynamics) and lively sound when playing at modest volumes (one tends to want to crank up solid state systems to get the juices flowing), a sound that grabs your attention so you want to listen more carefully instead of allowing your attention to wander, a sound that seems to envelop you more than solid state, and a more relaxed (not as edgy) sound while still being lively. 

The downside to tubes has to do with compatibility with speakers, bass control and depth that is not in the same league with solid state gear, inability to peel  paint with high volume (unless one buys super power tube amps, many of which sound harsh and brittle), and putting up with some maintenance issues or problems with noise or channel imbalance.  

I know that the Synthesis Audio A40 does not meet your criteria, but, if you have a chance, audition that amp to hear what a good, medium-powered tube amp can do.  That would be, in my opinion, a very tough to beat benchmark.  If you can do without balance connection, listen to what Audio Note Oto or Soro can do.  Other brands with, to me, good sound include Allnic, Air Tight, and Weytech.  Certain old Cary amps were also good, but their warmer sounding models sound a touch murky and sluggish (still very good at reasonable, used prices).

@larryi 

The Air Tight stuff is so beautiful, and so expensive….I love Synthesis, but I think you already noted that they are almost exclusively integrated amps.  For Synthesis, the only possibility given OP budget might be the Roma 98dc mono amps, which also have balanced xlr input.  Those would be very cool, and they’re not huge.

@hickamore 

btw, the Roma line has wood faceplate, but a silver-ish finish is available.  And Synthesis does a beautiful job on their wood finishes.  See picture of my Synthesis integrated under my Big Rig pictures on my systems page.

@audiotroy 

You carry both Synthesis and Legacy, right?  Any experience with the Roma 98dc?

@mdalton @larryi @audiotroy I viewed the Synthesis lineup on the distributor's website. Very cool-looking gear but most of these are integrated amps. Ovation is the amp that would interest me. However, Audio Intellect site is not displaying searchable products. At least not to me, at this time.

As I stated above, I am suggesting that you hear these amps even though they don't match your criteria and tell us if that is the kind of sound you are after.  If you think they are too warm, for example, you might be a candidate for the Audio Research amps being suggested above.

Also, if you do find it to be as good as I think it is, you might change your plans.  It is an integrated amp, with a first rate DAC that might prompt someone to drop a whole lot of other gear in favor of this amp.  I know of a buyer trading in a Jadis amp, Jadis linestage and a DAC (don't recall what DAC) for the A100 model that costs a small fraction of the gear being traded in.  I had to agree that the A100 sounded better than the Jadis, and Jadis is really nice sounding gear (also spectacularly well built).

Yes, I would certainly like to hear the Synthesis. If it resembles Cary, then I would probably like it. Same, I expect, with Aric. Only question is whether a tube amp (other than Stone Fortress ARC, VAC, etc.) can handle the low frequency impedance dips in my Legacy speakers. 
As for integrated amps -- should I find myself reluctantly abroad and in more constrained living circumstances (per @mdalton) -- then integrated would certainly be the way to go.  

by distributor, if you mean deja vu, pretty sure their website is not up to date.  my understanding is that the Prime series - which includes the Ovation and my Ensemble integrated - has been discontinued.  But @audiotroy will know better of course.  in the meantime, i’d recommend you look at the synthesis site (synthesis.co.it).

With a lot of tube gear, the difference between an integrated amp and a power amp is surprisingly minimal--if you take the power amp and add input jacks, a source selector and a volume pot, you have an integrated amp.(you probably don't need additional gain of a preamp or the buffering of the preamp).  One is often better off going with a manufacturer's integrated model because it is cheaper, will sound at least as good and will not require a pair of interconnects.

Late to the party..... but here's another recommendation for the Aric Audio Transcend. I've owned mine for a little over six years now with nary a problem. The bass is excellent,which is really important to me with the types of music I love. It actually can be used without a preamp if one wanted to (gain control). I don't because I like being able to adjust the balance via the pre's remote.If Aric ever decided to close up shop any place that services guitar amps could take care of any repairs easily. The way it's laid out internally is neat and accessible. My two cents:-)

@mdalton Right, I was looking at Deja Vu. Really know nothing about the brand. Maybe @audiotroy will weigh in.

@larryi Whether integrated or separate, my question remains how it handles low impedance at low frequencies.;

@jtcf What speakers are you using with the Transcend?

@hickamore 

yeah, vu is not really a distributor, though he’s listed as such by Synthesis.  He’s a dealer - from whom I bought my amp.  One of the reasons Synthesis has been way below the radar screen in the U.S. is that they’ve never had an actual U.S. dealer.  No presence at audio shows, no Stereophile reviews, etc.  The upside is you don’t pay a premium for the brand.

If bass response, and specifically how the amp handles low impedance (i.e., damping factor) is a high priority, then solid state is the way to go.  Some powerful tube amps with many pairs of output tubes may also have respectable damping factors, but to me, most such amps sound hard and edgy (I prefer solid state to many high powered tube amps).  It comes down to priorities and picking your own set of compromises; nothing is perfect.  My own priorities do place deep, tight bass way down the list.  Getting a rich, saturated sound with good midrange and lively sound at lower volume levels are high on my list which is why I like low to medium powered tube amps.  I sacrifice extreme volume capability, and deep tight bass.

@mdalton Ah. That explains everything.  You have scored some truly classy gear at good value. I  admire, but can't emulate. The stoic good humor alone would make all worth reading. See below. 

@larryi Just so. In a perfect world, I would bi-amp with Aric or such on top and Coda or such on the bottom. But I am old, not to mention tech-lazy, and times are chaotic, and 90% of my listening is casual, which leaves me in the usual compromise state, albeit vastly better informed owing to the wealth of information shared here. Thanks to all.  

+1 @larryi 

My listening values are pretty much the same.  I have no experience of Legacy speakers but I take the OP at his word that they are non-negotiable.  That’s why I suggested the possibility of bi-amping, as one approach to solving these simultaneous equations.  But for me, with my listening values, if I wanted to experience the magic of tubes, I’d think about easier-to-drive speakers.  Having said that, the OP is taking a nicely deliberate approach and might just be able to get it all with the Legacies and the right tube amp.  And I’m enjoying trying to help. 

The MC275 is a great amp once you throw away the junk OEM tubes. Which should he done with immediacy IMHO.

@mdalton 

Bi-Amping is the way, at least for me.

I have two mono-blocked MC275s (running GEC A2900s and KR Audio KT88s or GEC KT88s depending on any  given day) up top and a pair of Pass Labs xa160.8 mono-blocks down under. I love how they sound together.

Speakers are BW 802D4s.

@larryi I'm told that many tube users are switching to Coda SS amps. Extended bottom end is a necessity for me.
@mdalton Sounds optimal, but how do you manage level matching, etc.?

"Sounds optimal, but how do you manage level matching, etc.?"

@hickamore 

If you're referring to gain matching different amps in a bi-amped setup, I do it with my McIntosh MEN2200 Room Correction System vis a vis its low/high pass filters/outputs as it allows me to adjust output gain between them. 

I'm sure there are all sorts of opinions on the right or wrong way to do this, but thus far it has worked quite well for me.

For me, it is not just that extremely deep and impactful bass is a low priority, I don't like the results I often hear with attempts to achieve such bass.  Often the bottom end sounds "dry" and toneless when that kind of bass is achieved.  I think it is quite hard to do proper active crossovers and bi-amplification and even adding subwoofers properly is tricky.  The bass quality of your speaker system is mostly a property of the speaker, not the amplification.  While it is possible to get some improvement by proper choice of amplifier, and perhaps by expert bi-amplification, I think it would be hard to avoid compromises in other aspects of performance or ease of use of the system.  I know people who constantly fiddle with subwoofer settings, bi-amplification level setting, etc., and that sort of attention to the system is not for me.  Some people enjoy that kind of tweaking, so it is a personal choice.

@larryi 

That kind of bass isn't a priority for me either. That said, I have full-range speakers that go down to 17hz so I don't really even need a subwoofer, though I do have some, they just aren't turned on most of the time.

I also don't mess with active crossovers, I let the speakers sort that out for themselves. While I use the low and high pass filters on my MEN2200, my primary goal was simply to take some of the load off of my tube amps by not feeding them any more signal than they needed. So I set the low/high pass filters respectively one octave above and one octave below the speakers existing cross over points. I haven't really touched it/fiddled with it too much since setting it up because it consistently sounds great, at least to my ears.

With the correct speaker nothing beats an OTL. I own Atma-sphere MA-1s. The M-60s are also very good at a lower price with less power.

OP, early in this thread, @bluethinker recommended the Audio Hungary P200.  I’ve heard very good things about this company.  Am not sure their stuff tilts warm, but wanted to make sure it got your attention.  Build quality is superb; friend of mine is a dealer and loves their stuff.  And it meets all of your other criteria - price, balanced out, silver, 100w….

@hickamore 

one more thought:  in the manual for your speakers, there’s actually a pretty lengthy discussion of biamping, and combining tubes with SS.  In that context it references something called an “amp balancer” available from your Legacy dealer.  I couldn’t find anything else on the www about it, but you might want to reach out to your dealer.  

I wished I would had listened years ago when someone suggested to me MCintosh ,ARC or CJ as a preamp. I kiss a lot of frogs on my journey.Listen to the words of wisdom @ghdprentice ​​​​​​he is like the good cool uncle at the bbq .One of my biggest regrets is buying gear thinking that is just as good as what I really wanted . It's a reason why McIntosh,ARC and Cj gear is over 10 years old still demanding a decent price . 

Recently someone was crying about how hard it was to sell a Roque pre amp. Prima luma you see them for sale almost new all the time 

This sounds like a nice testimonial, if it were true. I will just pick on Mcintosh. 

Fact is right now on Canuck Audio Mart there are 27 listings for Mcintosh Pre-amps- just 2 examples for newer preamps:

• 53 day old listing for a C2700: $12000 retail asking $6900
• 153 day old C49 with DAC $9000 retail asking $5500. 

So yes, you are going to get as soaked selling a used Mcintosh pre as much as anything else, maybe more. 

At time of writing there are zero Primaluna Pre amp listings on Canuck Audiomart. 

(Yes, of course Mcintosh have been producing them for many more years and have sold a disproportionate amount compared to Primaluna- just providing a contrary viewpoint in favour of Primaluna)

@audition__audio OTL amps are out of the question for my speakers. I’m sure that with some, OTL amplification would be perfect.

@mdalton @larryi @darkblacksmoke Your insights come as a reminder that I am working with humble $10k speakers plus a modest amp upgrade budget. Need to forget bi-amping, leave my subs offline, choose the best one-chassis solution (more to this decision than pure SQ) and think more about what to do when my DAC dies.

@mclinnguy 

RE: McIntosh Resale Value

Like anything, certain models hold more value than others. Rolex is a strong analog for McIntosh in that regard. Undoubtedly which models and how much those models retain in value is impacted by the size and quality of the market in which they are marketed and sold. I just sold an MC302 in less than a week for close to what I bought it for new six years ago. But I'm in the US not Canada.

I certainly agree, however, that McIntosh resale value is often touted as some kind of golden absolute with no wrong choices, when it is anything but.

it’s very much like a net present value calculation of an investment that yields income.  the npv = discounted cash flows + resale value.  so for a piece of gear, the “cash flows” are the annual benefits of enjoying the gear.  so, one piece of gear could have higher annual cash flows (greater enjoyment), but lower resale.  because of those cash flows, it may actually be a much better investment.  In other words, resale value tends to be overrated.  As as with any investment,  it often depends on what discount rate you assume, lol!

@mdalton 

Something tells me that's not your first time putting that formula into play. No matter, I couldn't agree more. While price (and resale price) is a consideration, it's a rather distant cousin to the priority of value. At least for me. I'm often surprised by how often people fail to make the distinction.

I would consider the Coincident 300B Power amplifier monos...single ended for efficient speakers, but with plenty of bass foundation, liquid mids and extended, soft highs.  Israel is a good guy that has been in audio for decades!  P

@hickamore Other than silver color, Circle Labs M200 could tick all the boxes if you are considering high current SS route.  It is a great looking amp though.  I believe at the price of the one currently available used, it would be difficult to beat.  This hybrid amp has tube warmth and very good SS bass paired together seamlessly.   I have the integrated version .  Very special amp.  Good tube warmth,  but still accurate and fast.  Coda may also be a good fit for you, but for me this is the only SS ( hybrid) I have heard that hasn't left me wanting for my tube amp.  Review is worth a read.  

@yoder New one to me, like so many tube amps here. Thanks. I am indeed also considering Coda and will check out this one as well before pulling the trigger.

I'm going to put in a vote for the VSi75 by ARC.  One can probably find it used for under your budget.

@hotei  Integrateds have not ben on my radar, partly because failure on one end renders the other useless until repairs are made. But I must say, ARC for both pre and power at a reasonable price is a serious temptation. But then I wonder whether anyone would seriously recommend this unit with Legacys? 

Points well made and I'm not familiar with Legacy speakers.  However,  I pair a VSi75 with my Dynaudio Heritage Specials and it seems to drive them just fine.  And when playing vinyl have a Ref2 SE phono pre use a LOMC Lyra Delos and again seems to sound fine.  Of course I have a smaller room and moderate volume levels.

Audio Research i/50 meets your requirement for tube with balanced inputs and at the price point you mention.

@chenry Unfortunately, this unit is an integrated whose preamp section is not versatile enough for my needs. Also, its tubes won't deliver the current needed to handle the low impedances thrown up by my Legacy speakers. Seems the only tube amps likely to do this are the big ARC separates and the BATs with their monster output tubes. So I will be looking for a deal on one of those while pondering whether to just cave and go SS after all. Some are reputed to sound rather tube-y, or at least will operate in Class A to 40-50W.

Balanced is not differentially balanced. I am pretty certain that BAT is differentially balanced and I am not sure about ARC. My guess is not. Only makes a difference if your preamp is differentially balanced. True you can beat some speakers into submission with higher power, but you will not be getting the most from these tubes amps. It is not just impedance but also swings.  

I have a room with separate and a simple room that I have tried some integrated amps. Right now I prefer the simple room.
 

I stumbled on the Audio Hungary a50i and really love this amp and see no need to move on. It plays any type of music I throw at it. Can’t say that for the Conrad Johnson cav 45s2 even though that is a wonderful amp for certain types of music. I tried the ARC and BAT and others but just wasn’t for me.
 

There is a 75 watt Audio Hungary balanced a75i on US Audiomart for $3800 retail $9000. There is something very special about class A with tubes. 

@paulcreed the Audio Hungary does sound fascinating, but what speakers are you using with it? Mine need big wattage, big amperage, and only sound good at >80dB.

I would stay away from 75 watt tube amp then. I’m using a Reference 3a reflector and Joseph Audio Pulsar. The 3a’s play just fine, sometimes I would like a little more power with the JA. Both are very enjoyable with 50 watts. If you need power and current and want tubes may want a preamp and mono blocks. Tubes can get expensive and heat in summer months can be an issue. Needing big tube power makes it tricky.