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check out Jolida's fusion monoblocks at 200wpc. seems like some serious tube amp. and you could get both for about 5k.
buy both at the same time. see posequipmentsales.com.
brian will be very helpful. just a suggestion. |
Add me to the recommendations for VAC amps. I have a Phi 200 and have barely had it break a sweat in my small room driving Nola Micro References, which are not a particularly easy load. It has all the power and bass control you could ask for, while still being one of the most realistic and musically involving amplifiers I've ever heard (ranking up there with Jadis and Lamm in that respect). The monos would be even better, if your room is large. |
Fplanner2000 - VAC rules the roost for me. I've never heard anything better - including ARC, Mc, VTL and numerous others. I'm saving for a pair of VAC phi200's. |
I heard a system once with DCS source, VTL pre-amp, and hefty VAC amps driving Magico mini speakers in a smaller dealer demo room. THis combo was uniquely striking and reference quality in particular in its ability to deliver orchestral strings from standard CD in an exceptionally realistic sounding manner. So it "kicked ass" in that particular way, and was no slouch otherwise as well. The VAC monoblock amps were particularly striking aesthetically as well. Dealer mentioned some kind of automatic tube bias system in the VAC gear. DOn't know the details of how that worked, but it was working quite well that particular day. |
Just got my VAC 450 monos back from Florida after having an on-rush circuit as well as auto-bias circuitry installed in each amp, plus a few more tweaks that remain confidential to VAC.
After only a day, I now have startlingly realistic sound, unlike anything I have heard anywhere. Tight, commanding bass, extended sweet highs, great imaging, PRAT, etc., etc. Best bass I've ever heard from a tube amp anywhere, as well as the legendary VAC mid-range, with imaging and musicality to spare. Definitely get my vote in the tube "kick-ass" category. |
This OP started in 2009, and now 2013 :)
You gotta try the Carver 180 or 305 - kick ass tube amp.
I used to own Cary 120S, old AS MA1- now the Carver 180 with KT120 tubes. Very powerful tube amp and very sweet sounding |
Want good all around and good bass? Cary CAD 120's with Gold Lions. You must also have a good preamp too. |
All I can say is I NEVER heard a Cary or Jolida amp that I would consider as "kick ass". And FORGET the V12 it doesn't do it, they just don't have the speed or reach the nether regions. These are midrange amps. I also agree that first off, don't buy more power than you need. The speaker load will determine that. The CAT's (JL2 used) kick ass and offer ultimate refinement and will probably work on almost anything and this thread is 4 years old so I sure hope the OP found what he is looking for by now!
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I think pairing most any tube amp with the right speakers will more determine "kick ass" potential than anything inherent with any particular tube amp.
I notice a pattern with tube amps that people, even vendors, get carried away with demonstrating how little SET amp tube power is needed to drive high efficiency speakers just to make a point about low power tube amps and high efficiency speakers.
Its true a set amp can go a long way with high efficiency speakers, but I think they are only capable of being "kick ass" with the absolute highest efficiency and largest horns, 100db efficient or more. At least that is what I am hearing with various set tube amp demos to date.
The thing that tubes share with SS amps is that more tube power rather than less, though to a lesser extent,is needed to get most speakers to "kick ass" on the types of music that rely on power and dynamics to truly hit home. Pop rock and even metal, big band, large scale classical works, etc. are all good examples. Recordings of smaller mostly acoustic ensembles might get by with less, though if there is drums/percussion involved, not so much. |
I know this will make people's eyes roll but I will my amplifier selections to toss into the mix here are:
Jolida JD-502P
I'm really enjoying this amp with my gear. I've used 6550/KT88 type power tubes to even the Tung Sol KT-120 tubes in it and the music in my system was wonderful.
Another favorite that may not be made anymore is the Response Audio Bella Extreme 60 monoblocks. These use 2 6C33C power tubes and 5 6SN7 tubes in each monoblock.
Wonderful sounding even with a solid state preamp in the mix. The only issue I had is sourcing quality 6C33C power tubes. |
Kronzilla with VSA VR-11s |
McIntosh Tubes are an excellent choice though more expensive than comparable amps (with better re-sale too)... especially for rock music...they are not overly revealing of flaws, excellent bass and excellent highs, they play loud ...the MC2102 is an awesome amp...2 of them will work even better. |
I second CAT. The JL2 used will fit your price range.
While I'm partial to CAT, as others have mentioned, VTL, and Atma-Sphere are other great choices. |
Thank you all for the great info. I am actively looking and studying my options. I love the passion but let’s all stay cool guys. |
Though I went from VTL 250's to Atma-Sphere MA-1 MkIII's, it wasn't because I thought the VTL's were rolled off or that they had any other serious flaws for that matter. I just decided it was time for a change and wanted to try something different.
Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed the VTL's for over six years, they were trouble free and I could happily go back to them. I'm sure my friend who went from the 450's to the VAC Phi 300.1's would say the same thing.
On the other hand, both the 250's and 450's are outclassed when compared to either the MA-1's or the VAC's as they well should be considering the large price differences. |
Who said the VTLs rolled from the top?
Don't make me laugh...... |
By the way Keith, your speakers are not so highly efficient so you will be better off using a good amount of power like 80-100 WPC or so or at lpud volumes a lower power tube amp can clip.
You may also want to look at CAT amps even though VAC is a good choice too. Von Schweikert uses VAC to demo his speakers and the combo kicks butts. Both should be in your price range. |
hmmmmmmm..........Gallant_diva seems to have retained his highly off-putting nature! |
I'm not your "pal", "buddy", "son", etc. have a nice life. |
Dand_ed:
I respect your suggestion but with minor changes as I mentioned in my previous post I used several speakers and also my friend's system.
"In my systems and my friend's system the VTLs sounded rolled from the top."
ok, pal? |
I'm not arguing anything, just making a suggestion. Might I make another? "In my system the VTLs sounded rolled from the top." FWIW. :-) |
Dan_ed: What you said is entirely possible but your argument should be directed to Albert because I just posted my opinion which admittedly is very subjective and relative, but not directed at proving someone wrong. So, long as we keep that basic principle in mid, it is ok to engage in useful and friendly argument. And if it gets a bit out of hand, I will be first to leave the scene.
In fact, arguing for "my toy is better" is not my forte, as you can see from my posts. But in true audiophile spirit with an open mind, Instead of getting irritated one can do something more creative. For example, I would be interested in comparing the TRL and VTL on a neutral ground here in the DFW area. I can bring my GT-400 (the GT-800 is too big and the contest is not worth the effort) and Albert can bring his VTL and also his own judges :-). I am willing to bring the TRL GT-400 anywhere in DFW area and try with any system for the contest. How about that ;-)? |
Gallant_diva,
If they work for some and sound rolled off to you, would you not suspect a mismatch somewhere? |
No, the TRL have no rolled off in any of the speakers that I tried. But the VTLs were. We also tried them a friend's B&W 802 and we concluded the same.
I owned all of these amps.
This is based on my listening and I have not read any review nor do I care to. |
I'll agree with those who suggest VAC amps,but I favor the renaissance 140's. I have seen them sell for 5k to 6k but retubing these beauties can be expensive. Well worth the investment though. I use Sophia carbon plate 300's with the Brimar CV1988's and the sound is glorious. |
04-29-09: Gallant_diva
I also have a high opinion on the VAC.
Besides the VTLs are rolled from the top Do you believe the Tube Research are "rolled from the top" as well? If I'm not mistaken, one of the pair of Tube Research that you tried (or bought) for your system were my old units. They were magic when over biased with EL34 Mullards but sucked with KT88 and 6550 (which were needed to reach any kind of reliability). I really get irritate with people knocking the VTL 750 when several industry insiders and at least three reviewers consider them the industry standard for performance. |
rogue audio appollo monoblocks, killer amps , great bass, even with revel speakers, ie hard to drive. 10k new, good luck, chris |
I also have a high opinion on the VAC.
Besides the VTLs are rolled from the top |
Rfogel8 - Your friend is in for a real treat as the VACs break in. Catch them after they've broken in a while and you might be looking for a way to afford them yourself.... ;-) They really are pretty special. |
Fplanner2000, my buddy just replaced his VTL 450's with a pair of the VAC Phi 300.1 monos and as you say, they're wonderful. Right out of the box they stomped the 450's in every sonic area I can think of and they continue to improve with breakin. Of course at $18k each retail, they should be good.
As Atmasphere says, the M-60s would probably work well and I almost went with them but in the end I figured if 60 watts was good, 140 would be even better. They are quite "spectacular." |
> Just bustin' your chops, Gallant, sorry
Bustin' my chops? LMAO, haven't heard that for long time. |
Hi Keith, our email server has been down the last 2 days, so I will answer your question here:
Most of our Vandersteen 5/5A customers run the MA-1- and they say its spectacular! It appears that the M-60 should be able to drive the speaker too (the speaker appears easy to drive), but to date no-one has tried it. I think a lot depends on the room size- most of the 5/5A installations we've seen have been in bigger rooms. |
Well, I did talk to the VTL people yesterday. There's an older 450 on Gon that I thought might be a good deal but it turns out the older 450 cannot be upgraded to the series 2 so...
I left a messsage with the Atma Sphere guy but haven't heard back yet.
I looked at the audio valve website - very nice - Germany made - I like that.
With these darn tube amps, though, I'd almost like to buy from someone in CA. Canary, VTL and Manley are all here in CA.
I don't know? Still look-in. Unfortunately, I have to work for a living too! Darn job gets in my way sometimes!
thanks for your help
keith |
Keithmundy- Leaning toward any of the suggestions this far? |
Yes Dan, you are probably correct - 50 watts of the right power might work. I like to turn my system up at times though and don't want it to strain when I do. I probably should have started a thread that was more specific to the Vandy 5A's. Maybe I will search to see if one has been started already. Thanks to everyone for such great responses. |
I was so surprised by the performance of the VAC Phi 300.1 that I got a 2nd one! Has everything you are looking for and the VAC "sound" is one of the best in audio, IMO. Organic, musical, powerful yet true to the source. There are a number of very positive reviews here on Agon. Can be had used for under $10K if you can catch one - people just don't give them up very easily. They also make a Phi 200 amp that might work for your situation. Worth checking into. |
Keith,
why all the concern about high power with the 5A's? Ok, there are some demands down around 100Hz but most of the heavy lifting is being done by the sub's plate amp, which I hope is also rolling off the woofer just about that 100Hz. Anyway, I would be more concerned with synergy than just raw power numbers. You just may be surprised at what the "right" 50 watt/ch PP (or OTL) amp sounds like. Good luck with your search. |
Thanks so much to all who have responded.
Yes the GT-800's are going to be slightly out of my budget! but those are great pictures GD. Do you need anymore friends?
Keith |
Just bustin' your chops, Gallant, sorry |
Darkmoebius, the thread evolved from the original question, and several amps mentioned were also out of the intended budget. I listed other amps to indicate the *relative" butt kicking.
The Audio Valve Challenger can also kick butts.
Moreover, list prices hardly matter any more, thanks to audiogon. |
So in summary, the TRL GT-800 kicks butt of everything else that I have tried or heard, including the SS ams in the bass area, as well as any area of sound, subjectiveky and objectively alike. And at $140,000 (14x-28x the max Keithmundy is looking to spend), of what relevance is this information? |
I have owned several tube amps (and hybrids) over the years. My rating of the amps that I owned is based on extended listening with many speakers including various Apogees, McIntosh, Legacy Focus, Totem, Avalon Ascent.
My rating is based on clarifty, details, depth, imaging, transparency, control, power, midrange purity, bass control. etc.
The rating is:
1. Tube Research Labs GT-800
2. Tube Research Labs GT-400
3. Jadis JA-500 (the bigger Jadis-800 is not worth the price but the smaller Jadis JA-200 has slightly better sound)
4. Audio Valve Challenger
5. Lamm M2.1 (hybrid)
6. VTL-750 (the one with high-quality caps).
7. Llano (hybrid)
So in summary, the TRL GT-800 kicks butt of everything else that I have tried or heard, including the SS ams in the bass area, as well as any area of sound, subjectiveky and objectively alike. I even doubt if any any amp can outperform it. It should be among the seven wonders of the audio :)
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I owned VTL 250 mono's for several years and a good bud has owned the 450's even longer. The 250's are wired in triode and sound even better than the 450's when they're switched to triode and either will definitely get the job done; especially since you're only driving the top portion of your Vandy's and they're a pretty easy load.
I too am running a system that has powered subs and only use tube amps for my 89db, 6 Ohm main speakers. About 18 months ago I swapped my VTL's for a pair of 140wpc Atma-Sphere MA-1's and to say they were a huge improvement over the VTL's would be an understatement.
Everything is cleaner, clearer, smoother and much more refined. I'm getting way more information out of recordings, both cd and vinyl and the sound is just more believable. The VTL's sounded sorta muddy by comparison.
My main speakers are good down to around 50Hz and with the MA-1's, bass is fast and weighty but not exaggerated and more importantly, pitch and timbre are spot-on.
Both VTL and Atma-Sphere are well built and you'd probably be happy with either of them but the MA-1's will definitely take things up a couple notches.
Happy Hunting. |
I agree with Albert Porter, this one is easy:
CJ Premier One
Melos 400
Jadis JA-500
All butt kicking and all 3D, range 3000-12,000 USD. + All drive MBL 101Es to concert levels.
Peter |
Hello Rleff, I'm running Vandersteen 5A's.
FREQUENCY RESPONSE
22Hz to 30kHz + or - 2dB
EFFICIENCY
87dB at 1 meter with a 2.83 volt input.
RECOMMENDED AMPLIFIER
40 TO 200 watts per channel into 8 ohms for the upper section, 400-watt subwoofer amplifier built in.
IMPEDANCE
6 ohms nominal, 4 ohms minimum.
CROSSOVER
100Hz, 600Hz, 5000Hz and adjustable H.F., 6dB per octave |
Keithmundy- What type of speakers are you driving?
I forgot to ask in my earlier reply. |
I think the Audio Valve Challenger 180's I just aquired may qualify but I don't know if they can beat Albert's suggestion on the VTL monoblocks. |
Canary CA-160 monoblocks, 140 wpc. I second their recommendation that was made to previously. I just bought a pair off Audiogon and to say the least I am very impressed.
They really spank my Von Schweikert VR 4 JR's. The sound is excellent. Very good taut bass, a wonderful mid range, and clean highs. These amps have "it". You just want to listen to them as they are so engaging, smooth, and textured. I use Canary monblock preamps to drive them. |
Sonic Frontiers Power 3 can be had for <$3500 if you can find them, they are very good for the money.
BAT 150SE is superb if 150 wpc is sufficient, BAT has tremendous drive and speed that sounds more powerful than 150 wpc. you can start with 75SE and upgrade to 150SE if you like the sound, you gain more than power when you bridge. BAT can be further upgraded with some aftermarket parts, there are a few threads on audiogon discussing this topic and result is well worth the price. |
