TRL Marantz Sa-14

Hi Jack. I'll definitely get it done. I am really amazed at how revealing the TRL SA14 is. As I said, the bybee filters had a minor impact on the sound before but now with the SA14 the difference is night and day!

Cheers,

- Jay

Jay: Good to hear. You'll be pleased with the update. Ask Oldpet, it is night and day.

I've tried bybees in the past. They didn't stay long ... Great to hear from you again.

Tony, aka dog: Sorry I left you out above. Sounds like you're just enjoying the music ... that's what it is all about.

Howard: I have tried Roller blocks, and Stillpoints under my 14, but prefer the Wagner A/V mounting pad. The Mapleshade Isoblocks are nothing more than the "Wagner AV Mounting Pad", available at any Heating/Ventilation/Air Conditioning contractor supply house. Heating contractors use them under underneathe heating and cooling systems. Check your yellow pages.

Pierre (Mapleshade) claims that they are his proprietary design, "I evolved the IsoBlock specifically for our maple platforms" (LOL). http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/isoblocks.php

Anyway, they have worked best under my 14, in my system.

I've said this before: Isolation devices can be used to tune a system to help system integration. For example, some systems may need a little more tightness in the mids and highs. The Stillpoints may be a good choice for this application. I've even used a combination of various isolation devices in my past, like using the HRS Nimbus didsc/pucks underneathe Stillpoints to tone down the Stillpoints.

Experiment. Have fun. See what works best for your system. Once you have the 14, drop me an e-mail and tell me what you hear. I have many of the countless isolation devices out there and know the 'sound' of each one. I'd be happy to suggest which isolation device might suit your needs.

Best,

Jack Seaton
jack_seaton@yahoo.com

Jes45 and Family,

You guys are just killing me! My TRL Sony 2000es is sitting here playing great music and all I can hear is how great the Marantz TRL SA-14 is. Furthermore, I was told that the TRL SA-14 is so superior to what I presently listen to it should be a reference.

What did I do to deserve this? I am now searching for a TRL or unmodded SA-14 v2 Marantz. I hate being left behind like this.

Cheers

La45

If you are hearing what makes you happy stay with it. I'm sure the 2000es is an excellent machine.

Two questions for you:
1. Why are you looking for the v2 Sa-14? Is it for the color? (It is beautiful.) From what I understand - After mods, there is no sonic difference between the v1 and the v2.

Also - Who told you that the SA-14 should be a reference? Just curious. Thanks, and best of luck.

paul

La45-

I know you are just teasing :) We all know the the TRL Sony 2000ES is an elite player also.
I know of a very experienced audio industry guy who sold his $4000 modded Denon from another well known modder and now owns the TRL 2000ES(Actually two of them now).
I would check with Paul or Brian, but unless you want the champagne color (which is awesome) I don't think there is a significant difference between v1 and v2 SA14 modded.
Could be wrong.

TRL told me the v1 and v2 sounded the same after mods. For me the v1 worked great since it was cheaper to buy plus black blends in better with my other gear.

TRL Family & friends-

First off I love my Sony TRL 2000es player.

My persuit of the Marantz SA-14 V2 stems from my listening to the Marantz SA-1 player at my friends place. Its a great machine!! No I did not compare it to my TRL 2000es but what I heard made it very clear to me where the strengths of the expensive Marantz is compared to the modestly priced Sony player. It had more body, air and defined bass.

Folks I must say in defense of the TRL Sony 2000es, the player is no slouch. It overachieves in areas that expensive players fail. It has terric tonal balance. Above average bass performance considering the modest power supply and its very tunable and responsive to isolation and power cords. Its more defined in characterless fashion than some players. It reproduces music in a convincing fashion when you have it dialed in properly.

No complaints just a yearning to satisfy my growing appetite for better music and in my opinion the SA-14 will soon be my reference.

Cheers

Update on my TRL Marantz SA-8260. The sound hasn't changed in the last month so I think its fully broken-in. I have some where around 650 hours on the mod. It still sounds a little "hyped" in the midrange/treble areas. Its not bright or forward it just isn't relaxed and coherent like I have heard in other players. But let’s put it in perspective. A new SA-8260 modded by TRL is about $1,500 depending on how much you pay for the player. If you buy a used player and have it modded the cost goes down to about $1,000 total. So the question is how does the TRL SA-8260 match-up in its price range? - IMHO nothing can touch it. The best SACD player I've heard is the Sony SCD-1 which is still about $2,000 used and the TRL SA-8260 easily beats it.(Please no flames. I readily admit this is based on memory after having a SCD-1 in my system for only a few days over a year ago) I have not heard a TRL SA-14 but I assume that will be my next purchase based on what others have said in this thread. Thanks again to all who sent private emails concerning the progress of my player.

"Your the greatest" as Jackie Gleason would state in his unique profound manner. Jack Seaton falls into this category hands down. My understanding is his level of expertise far outruns those professionals who claim to have the ears of a bat. His equipment, sound reproduction and network within the industry is second to none. Keep up the tremendous lines of communications. I tried to find out where things are with the SA-11 mod but the thread was expunged. Yes, Jack I am the old owner of Jerry's TRL phono stage and the new owner of the battery operated unit. Be well and keep fighting the good fight.

Sbayne, what power cord are you using? If you've got the CRL silver series then based on my testing a VenHaus Airsine will provide a slightly more relaxed and organizc sound (all things being equal).

Jsala - I'm using a ZCable Red Lightning with an Ultra ZSleeve. I will check out the VenHaus Airsine.

Sbayne, I posted comments about 5-6 weeks ago on how various PCs sounded with my TRL SA14. While the specific results may be different in your system, the TRL SA14 really shows the difference among power cords.

"I tried to find out where things are with the SA-11 mod but the thread was expunged."

My TRL SA11S1 is arriving today. From my conversations with Paul, I'm thinking it's one of his first. Anyone else out there with one?

I've not heard the SA-14 but can post impressions if anyone is interested.

M3Pilot,
Welcome to the group. Please keep us posted about the progress of TRL SA11S1 break-in. Which player(s) does SA11S1 replace?

Received my TRl SA-14 v2 yesterday. Let the break-in begin. I bought the unit used before I had it sent to TRL, so the unit as a whole is broken in. Do I still need to break in CD and SACD seperately post mod? Thanks,

Pardales-
I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
I didn't and have not noticed any change in SACD since my break in period.
A lot of the break in has to do with common parts modded or replaced I think, but no one knows the specifics except TRL.
A technique I like is to run for several hours (24-48) and shut down for a few hours or overnight and start again.

Enjoy the player. It is pretty special.

Pardales
"Do I still need to break in CD and SACD seperately"

I believe I asked that very question to either Paul or Brian, can't remember which at this point, and the answer was yes. What ever you do - you'll enjoy it.

best.

Paul

Breaking the cycle is a good idea. That is how I am breaking in my TRL modded DAC. I usually run it 48 hours, then shut it down a day, then start the cycle over again. It should take about a month to fully break in this way.

Thank you for the welcome Hchi.

I'm replacing a Cary 303/200 which was ok but its highish output didn't agree with my Pathos Classic 1 mk2 integrated. Rounding out the rest of my rig are Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors, Harmonic Technology Pro Silway III balanced interconnects and HT Pro9+ speaker wires.

Pardales, I specifically asked Paul that question (because I think someone else mentioned it here earlier) and he told me that there was no separate break-in for CD and Redbook.

As of last night, it was sounding quite good with only a handful of hours. Lots of detail . . . not in a tiresome way but more like a "you-are-there" sense.

"I believe I asked that very question to either Paul or Brian, can't remember which at this point, and the answer was yes."

Hmmm . . . curious.

M3pilot

I believe that there are 2 seperate circuits, SACD and CD, which need to be broken in. I'm surely not an electrical engineer, so any questions beyond that should be directed to the guys at TRL.

hope this helps

Hey pardales! So you got your unit and are in the process of breaking it in! Looking forward to hearing your opinions on how it compares to the xa777es. Please do let me know. Please let me know if the differences were dramatic or subtle and which you liked more. I am considering the modded sa 14. I hope you will still remember how the xa777es sounded as to still be able to make an informative comparison. That shouldn't be a problem as you used to own one. I think the sony xa777es is a really good machine. I havent owned alot of hi end cd players (I once owned a marantz cd 17)but i have to say the sony is the best i've owned so far. I find it to be a very honest player. It tells you what's there and doesn't sugar coat the original studio recording. Things come through very neutral. Judging it in comparison to reference or world class players (and to be honest , I havent heard any of them but can imagine)I would guess and I realize I'm only guessing but I would say that it is probably a bit cold and a bit harsh. "A bit cold and a bit harsh" relatively speaking, in comparison to the ultra high end cdp's.

Anyways...Happy listening.

Vertigo...

.

Looking forward to getting a TRL Esoteric P-70 D-70 combo!

Pardales-

Chatted with Paul about the break in issue to verify what we talked about months ago.
The answer is yes and no (:>
If the machine was brand new, then more yes as you have to break in both SACD and CD for a period of time.
If the unit was already used, then the DAC needs minimal re-break in and the unit break in overall can be done with either or both.

I think I got this right (:>

Vertigo: Without a doubt the TRL SA-14 sounds better than the XA777 on redbook CD. The way you described the XA777 is exactly the way I would put it: SACD was wonderful and redbook was a bit dry and could be a little uninvolving (but very accurate and true to the recording). SACD on the TRL is at least as good and probably better than the Sony. Keep in mind that I only have 50 hours on my machine.

Pardales: You said, "Keep in mind that I only have 50 hours on my machine."

Just wait until you get to 500 hours ...

My TRL/SA-14 started to really break in at 300 hours and continued to around 500 hours.

Enjoy the ride,

Jack

Agreed on the 300 hour mark for the sound to really start filling out. Bass does not really kick in until then, but when it does you will be quite pleased. 500 hours easy for full break in.

Have fun!

Interesting thread. Where can one find out more about TRL? I've heard positive remarks about their amplifiers but they're out of my price range. What else have they made? Valence

Valence-

Here is their website link.

http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/
Specific questions to their email listed are usually answered by Paul Weitzel pretty quickly.

They mod most any digital unit or amplifier for a standard fee of $550. Don't ask me why they picked that figure, but most would say it is the deal of the century in audio.
Yes, they make $140,000 SOTA tube amps and $30,000 digital reproduction units. They also do audio recording and engineering projects, cables, Record Cleaning products, CD Treatment projects, and medical field digital technology work on a major scale. They have been around for decades and are generally thought of very postively by those in the audio business.
They are now making a solid state integrated amp that many people like that is around $5000 I think. I have heard it firsthand and it is quite good.

Good luck.

Thank you Lkdog for your assistance. I did not know they were involved in so many things. Valence

FYI, they have done well over 600 mods on various units in the last year. Whatever you have, they probably have seen it or are familiar with it.
Nice guys and great work.

I've had my modded SA-11 for 4 days now. It's a beautifully built player -- that's for sure. I've got about 75 hours on it. So far I'm very, very pleased. Certinaly a steal for the $$$.

I suppose the only players I'd consider "trading up" for are the DCS one box and the EMM Labs combo, but certainly not before an audition to compare them against the Marantz.

Incidentally, Paul provides excellent, responsive customer service.

I highly recommended the player and TRL.

Lets not forget some of the recordings Paul has been involved in. I hope to hear them soon.

I am sending off my SA-14 today to TRL. Even in its stock form the SA-14 blew away my Rotel 1072. It was hard to let go of even stock. I can't wait to hear it with TRL's mods. Did I read it right that it needs 500 hours break-in for both CD and SACD? Bob

Baranyi-

According to the way I understand Paul's explanation to me-500 hours total of playing time on either CD or SACD (not each) since it is a used unit.
If it was a brand new unit, the he does suggest making sure to break in both with some SACD and CD play.

LKdog,thanks for that explanation. Bob

Great thread. Still on topic after all this time. Just want to say my TRL SA-8260 really likes to be isolated from vibration. I personally use mapleshade cones into a maple rack with heavyhats on top. I mention this because its a cheap tweek and the TRL mod takes these players to a level where such things are "noticeably audioable"(are those words?).

Good point about the TRL modded units will subsequently reveal changes you make in your system regarding tweaks or downstream changes quite easily.
I am guessing that mods from most high end shops do this this to some extent. TRL certainly places a premium on detail and reducing noise floor in all of their mods.
It is amazing how much noise is present in most units and amps and we don't realize it until it is removed.
Enjoy the music!

It is nice that this thread has been allowed to stay on course. In this regard, I applaude the A'Gon moderators for not allowing this thread to be taken over as the Esoteric DV-50S was. :)

Thanks!

Jack Seaton

TRL should receive my unit today. That should mean that I will have the modified player back by late next week. I can't wait to hear the differences after spending 2 weeks with the stock SA-14. Bob

Hi Bob,

Make sure you get back to this thread with your impressions. I hope to have my unit soon also.

Jack-

This is a nice thread. Good information sharing without the big egoes.

La45: Hey Cuz, how have you been? Glad to hear that you're going the SA-14 route. :)

Jack

Bob and Jack

I am another anxious to hear your impressions. I never heard my SA-14 in it's stock form. I was so ready, after emailing Paul at TRL several times, that i sent my unit to them directly. I know that I love what I hear. :-) I really hope that you two find the sound as appealing as I.

BTW - This is one of the most enjoyable threads on Agon. Way to go gang!

paul

Okay, here is my truth. I received my TRL Marantz SA-14 v.2 and, after 50 hours of break in, just was not comfortable with (i.e., did not enjoy) the sound.

Please, I am not going to go into the ill-defined audiophile vocabulary of extended highs and full mid-bass, etc., etc., et al. I listen wholistically, meaning, the sound moves me within a few days of listening or it does not.

Here's the thing though, I do not think it had anything to do with TRL, I think my disatisfaction has more to do with Marantz. Several months ago I was listening to a friends DV-9500, and, while I thought it sounded quite good, I knew it was not for me. Again, I am not going to go into details, I just did not prefer that sound. To me, the TRL SA-14 v2 had a very similar sound to the DV-9500 (general characteristiscs). The TRL was a considerably more refined of course, but there were distinct similarities between the units That sound (as I interpret it) is just not for me.

I AM NOT SAYING IT IS BAD! I am just saying it is not for me.

Pardales,

As you have most definitely read in these threads TRL mods, including those on the SA-14, require a significant amount of time (500 hours is recommended) to fully break-in. I can understand your disappointment after 50 hours, my TRL Audio Mirror DAC sounded better than stock but nothing to write home about after 50, 100, and 150 hours. However, at 200, 250, and 300 the sound opened up and measurably improved. The unit was performing as I expected, and as the Weitzel's described it would. Even though the sound is phenomenal right now, I am waiting until the 500 hours mark to make my final analysis.

I think you need to give this more than 50 hours. Heck, even a new non-TRL CDP would require at least 100 hours of break-in, which is pretty standard in the industry.

Clio09: I agree 100%. Fifty hours is like what, a little over 2 days? My TRL modified players didn't really open up until around 300 hours, which is over 12 days.

That's when you get a taste of what to expect.

Time will tell.

Jack

I know I did not give it the full break-in. I'm sure the sound does improve. I thought the unit sounded quite nice. I guess I made the judgment that, since I heard strong similarities to the 9500, while it would improve, the fundamental characteristics would not. I guess I am referring to a Marantz house sound that is just not my cup of tea. I may have erred in my judgment though.

Cio09: I beleive Paradles is very well aware of this. As he is a seasoned audiophile. In researching one of his threads he had recommended a fellow member to wait for the 100 hour break in in a pair of speakers he likes. It is not for me after 50 hrs may really mean something else completely. Something been in the fridge to long with the power down. Yeah it's a real stinker alright. We'll eventually fish this one out!

Pardales-

How many hours do you have on it?
I mean no disprespect as everyone has different tastes, but the break in is a big deal on these things for various reasons-not the least is some of the new propreitary wire used in the mod which takes a very long time to settle in.
But, you may have already put 400-500 hours on it and it just doesn't work for you.

Pardales - How much do you want for the TRL SA-14 v.2? I'm being serious. Sometimes,like you say, equipment is not someone's "cup of tea."