TRL Marantz Sa-14

No he was talking about the stock version only. At the time I was interested in the TRL SA-11 but I am getting spoiled fast with the 5-disc changer.

Thanks for responding. My good friend owns a SA-14 version 2 and had a Sony SCD-1. He loved his SCD-1 player and finds the SA-14 weak in dynamics. He is using isolation with the player and is thinking of adding the TRL mod.

I just received my TRL Sony 2000 and I like its dynamics and bass authority but sounds thin in the midrange. I was told the burn-in time is approximately 500 hours for everything to pop together. So far I like the TRL player but I can't say it sounds like vinyl yet.

Uva hifi the thought never occured to me that the TRL may have a kind of house sound and that it did not matter which player one has. But I can't believe that this assumption could be true. Although Paul does not reveal what changes he makes with his mod, he did indicate that the SA-14 after treatment was comparable to his expensive reference and made no mention that this is true of the Sony players.

For me I am looking for bang for my bucks since digital is changing so quickly and mod ROI (return of investment) is minimal. I hope someone can comment on what effect the TRL mod has had on the stock Marantz SA-14 or any other hi-end player.

Thanks

Many thanks to all for sharing your thoughts about the TRL mod and Marantz players. While I am not a big fan of modders I do respect them. They have given all of us an opportunity to "buy" superior sound for a sensible cost.

In the old days these changes were earmarked in different models with higher and higher price tags. The minute I had a model that was highly rated by the reviewers it was superseded by another. I don't know about you fellows but I got tired of the merry go around.

Now I use caution in all my purchases. I pay attention to the designer or company and its reputation. Marantz has great stock players and Paul is first class.

I look forward to hearing more about the TRL Marantz SA11.

Jsala please report back on your findings before and after the mod.

Thanks

Even better! Yes I am very interested in hearing about this new Marantz player. As a matter of fact I plan to contact Paul and ask his opinion. I wonder if it comes
in a gold color?

Thanks

I just received an email from Paul stating the so far he has not found a good sounding Universal Player that he likes. However, he did not rule out the possibility of applying his mod to the Marantz 9500.

The question is does this player even need a mod. I love the Crystal DACs and the early reports say that this player sounds very analog.

Hey Guys,

An exciting update. Although the TRL Sony 2000es has only 35 hours of playing time I am reporting what I heard. A tube preamp was introduced to me today. I have never heard a preamp fill the soundstage like this unit has. It has just been released and I consider myself one of the lucky few to have one. It was a no brainer since it only cost me $2,000.
The combination of this preamp and the TRL for the asking price ($2,850) will seriously challenge more expensive digital front ends and IMHO convert analog lovers to digital. Its a magical combination that I had to have.

The preamps name is "Full Image". Magical in of itself but unheard of at this price.

I only heard of it from a fellow who is using a very expensive Japanese preamp in his very expensive system and he bought one! I had to listen to one so I took a long ride.
Well after hearing it I decided to order one. It does something special in the middle of the soundstage that I have never heard a preamp do.

I will try to explain. Take a balloon that haphazardly floats around and now add strings to it and a platform and now it floats consistantly, smoothly and can even carry people, this is what this preamp does. Pulls everything together and fills the 'spatial' information so well that when you return to your regular preamp, its like a hole. I am still trying to digest all of this and I am sure the TRL is part of this.

I can't wait till the TRL breaks in. I have barely 40 hours and what I am experiencing at this stage with my Single Ended stuff and this new preamp is very exciting!

dracule1

Sorry if it appears that I am being secretive with this Preamp. The preamp is an overachiever and the problem with this is since its new to me in my system I can't be too specific until the TRL is broken in. The surprise here is the presentation is almost magical inspite of the TRL Sony having only 47 hours playing time.

I am trying to stay away from proclaiming this as a godsend. The truth is the Full Image preamp is doing something that is hard to describe hence my balloon analogy. It adds an inviting 'character' to the instruments and the sound is wonderful. I just feel so much of the rythm and pace of each piano key strike that its beyond what I have heard up to this point. Very involving stuff.

To put it another way, I was considering upgrading to the TRL SA-14. Now I don't feel the need to do this because of this preamp. If you have been around this hobby for awhile you can spot when a product does something special and this absolutely fits this category.

The designer is offering it direct and plans to keep it that way. So if you are interested send me an email and I can give more info. Its just not appropriate here.

I promise to have more information for you but for now what a pleasant surprise.

Oldpet

What do you mean "really does it right". Are you referring to the neatness of the mods? I looked at the inside of my 2000es and I was a bit disappointed. I don't think about it anymore since I am in heaven with the sound. Now I believe the stuff he uses all over the board must be called "magic stuff".

Hey Oldpet,

I am also curious about break-in. Please keep us posted if there is any change at 100 hours. On my Sony 2000es I have about 60 hours playing time. The Ray Charles "Duet" sounds Rayish and enjoyable last night. I can't get over the fact that I am using a 5-disc changer for my high end system. This player is a get up and sit down time saver especially since I am using a remoteless preamp.

I just can't get over how good the TRL sound is on this Sony 2000es.

As I may have mentioned before I have some new additions to the family, a brand new Single-ended amp with its roaring power of 8 watts and a new engaging preamp. So I am dealing with 3 new units to break in.

And as far as whether Jes45 is related the answer is yes, we belong to the TRL family thank you.

Nice player. The Marantz SA-11 TRL version has got to be the best. Anxious to here more when you get it. It looks great and I suppose it will be great after Paul does his magic. I spoke to a fellow in Tawain and he says the unit has a lean character but he tamed it by using the old Van Den Hul carbon inteconnect. He loves the results.

Reb 1208

I have a friend selling his SA-14 version 2. Email me and I will get you his number. By the way Oldpet you are right on the money my friend. My Sony 2000es at 74 hours just BUSTED OUT! All sorts of delicious air at the top sprinkled with deep rich bass and a dash of PRAT to keep me up late. This is the real thing for those who are not sure about the TRL mod.

If I was doing this mod I might be charging a whole lot more since this easily sounds much more like music and I might add forget about vinyl. Put on a SACD and start selling your record collection. The Full Image preamp and Sony 2000es is a bang for buck killer combination too.

Are you kidding me oldpet that there is more changes on the horizon? I am loving every minute. Audio is so much fun right now. Thanks Paul and thanks LKDog and others for spreading the news.

Hey Reb,

What is this speed you are referring to? And what is it about the Marantz SA-11 you hated? That is a pretty strong word. Did you give it sufficient break in time? Anyone out there have the opinion that the TRL SA-11 in their system is miles ahead of the SA-14 TRL before we start persuing the holy grail?

The Sony 2000es is getting better and better. I admit that its a painful process to hear the system deteriote so much in the last 9 hours only to return full force tonight.

The entire system is awesomely good now! The vocals have so much character its as if I am meeting these people through their voices. I have not felt this connected to what I am listening to since my vinyl days. This is impressive stuff.

This is exciting. There are alot of us on this thread waiting for their TRL SA-14 to arrive. This is a defining moment for me if indeed this player owns up to the advance billing. I would love to hear more feedback.

A true sign of a Hi-end product is its adaptability. But a sign of greatness is how well it connects you to the music no matter what system or environment.

Oldpet,

Just came back from the Home Entertainment show. So far the hours logged are around 98. But my problem is made complicated by my new Single-ended amp. The designer said it had 10 hours of burn-in time and that I should expect the sound to dive around the 30 hour mark which occured at around the 80 hour mark on the Sony.

After 48 hours the juice started flowing. If you have ever heard a good Single-ended amp you know what I mean by flowing.

Gandme-

I also experienced the apparent lower volume syndrome. Here is my take on this. I still have my transformer coupled Philips player and a few days ago I put it back into the system. It was very dynamic and screechingly louder in comparison to the SonyTRL. I view the difference as more related to noise artifacts coming from the circuitry that we all have grown accustomed to and when its removed we get a purer sound that is just a bit less dynamic to the ear.

Since I am now at the 100 hour mark the dynamics are returning especially in the bass area. I am adjusting to the TRL Sony's lack of artificial 'glare'as time goes.

Does anyone agree that this maybe a fact with the TRL? By the way compared to what I just heard at the Show, this player is doing something very special.

INMHO the Hi point for me at the Show was the in the Acapella room check it out if you are in the neighborhood.

I am in complete agreement about one thing and its not about the sa-11 vs the sa-14 or is the sa-14 better in balance mode or not, its the freeken fact that I also find myself getting less sleep. I have never had a digital front end deny me sleep before. Add to this there is no "on/off" on the Sony so it just sits there and stares back at me like a sweet puppy dog.

Gandme,

Could you tell me your room size and what level is set on your preamp with the Sony 2000es compared to your previous cdp? Also what is the efficiency of your speakers? Do you have a Ratshack meter on hand?

Wow. Sounds like a nice listening room. I would imagine its filled with goodies, carpet, furniture, tables, etc. I really believe in sound energy. What I mean is the total amount of energy produced by the system minus the amount taken away or absorbed if you will by the room and goodies that are in it. If you want you can try an experiment. Remove at least 50% of the furniture from the room if you can and listen at the same settings. I bet an empty room with Cathedral ceilings will produce more SPL to the ear.

I had to refinish my basement recently and I removed everything except the system and I could not believe the difference. Cheers to TRL and your "BIG ASS ROOM" -:)

Jes45

Regarding the Sa-14TRL what would you say is the central difference over your Sony TRL?

Jack thanks for the information. I better stay away from hearing the Sa-14 for I am afraid to fall into the pit. Just finished playing "Jacobs tracks" on Proprius label and I am in heaven.

I decided to tweek the isolation on the Sony by adding small amounts of Blue Tack under the tray just to break up any resonances. I also made an isolation base composed of three different layers a polymer material/plexiglass with a special damper in between. Nice improvement in smoothing out the vocals and increasing subtle dynamics that were not there before.

I can start selling my LPs now. I agree this is a very easy player to live with and may I add a downright STEAL for the price of admission.

Guys enjoy your TRL SA-14. Maybe next year I will look for one used.

Jack,

Good observation on this potential problem. I will keep an eye on this although I find the material very sticky and easy to apply so far its staying in its place.

The isolation base and the DIY tube trap I made improved things so much that the thought of using any other players at this point is not in my mind. I feel if there is any deficiency in the system it may be what can be described as the "more" effect whereby its not anything missing just more added when upgrading to the higher priced TRL players.

Alot of folks out there are struggling to get a particular sound out of their system. I have the opinion that having expensive gear does not neccessarily translate into synergy. For some reason the TRL player makes this effort easier to accomplish.

There are a couple more people I have emailed that are moving up to the SA-14 TRL from the 2000es TRL. I hope to hear from them soon. My unit has 235 hours of time and counting towards 300 hours. I expect the sound to keep improving and perhaps slow a bit when it hits 500 hours. You may wonder why its taking that long. The reason is I turn the unit completely off for one day so things settle in.

I have yet to hear anyone who has the TRL Marantz SA-11 come forward with how it compares to the Marantz SA-14 TRL. Any takers?

Oldpet,

I don't own a SA-14 I have the TRL Sony 2000es. A friend of mine owned one but sold it to another Audiogonner who sent it on to Paul at TRL. I may look at a TRL SA-14 in a few months but for now I love my 2000es.

Jes45-

Cousin, you got the TRL bug alright. Please whatever you do don't sneeze in my direction. I just can't afford it right now.

Lkdog-

Keep me informed on the SA-14 break in saga. Happy that you got something special. Look forward to your reports.

For the record, my Sony 2000ES player just passed the 300 hour break-in mark. Everyone of you who guided me on what to expect during these harrowing but musical hours I give my thanks. While I enjoyed the player, I felt the bass was not happening but due to my fellow cousins and others I hung in there. Well the journey is over. The bass is awesome!

The Sound of the TRL Sony 2000es is rich with body, weight where it should be on instruments that demand it, and a wonderful full soundstage with lots of air and dimension.
For the price of the mod and the cost of the Player, this is a runaway hit. The bass now goes further down with nice articulation and very little smearing. I have to thank Ric
Cummings for making a speaker that allows me to hear so well into the low frequencies. Thanks to Donnie for making a superb preamp and amplifier and to Paul of TRL for making it all happen.

The SA-14 is better than what I am hearing? This is unreal!

Wow. This is a great thread. Lots of good info and candid experiences. Its better than reading a magazine. LKD very interested in the TRL Integrated amp when its finally broken in. Keep us posted.

What TRL recording? Please cough up some info on this I am very interested to know if Paul has copies available.

Thanks

Oldpet,

Thanks for the information on the TRL discs. I will get in touch with Paul next week.

Trl family-

Break-in the sacd section along with the redbook alternating the hours. Here is an interesting tweek. Add anti-static sheet for computer chips on top or under your TRL player.

I like the solidity of the sound from this tweek. Let me know your experience.

Guess whose coming to Dinner?

Over the weekend here is the lineup:

Mark Levinson 380s, Mactone preamp, Meitner Switchman II,
Full Image preamp. The total retail is $40,000 when new.

Guess what was in front of all these great preamps?

No one laid any criticism on the Sony 2000es. Considering these guys have over 15 years in this hobby, I feel good that the Sony presentation was lucid for all to enjoy.

As for the pre shootout, each pre had a define sonic signature albeit there was a problem with the Levinson not having suitable warm up time (1 day) for it to smooth out.

Overall an enjoyable day for the 6 of us in my listening room. In my opinion the clear winner is the Sony and a CDR disc burned from an original LP copy of the "Modern Jazz Quartet Live at Carnegie Hall".

Hi Cuz,

I had a hunch that anti-static materials might have some affect. I used an antistatic enclosure from a chip.

The reason I mention it here is to report that I heard the sound change to a more solid character and wanted some of you to try it and report back here.

I want to add a larger anti-static sheet to cover the top of the transport area since the sheet I have is 8"x 5 3/4" small. Since this is all experimental I can't offer any guidance on size or offer any info on if there are different anti-static ratings. Anyone out there that knows about this aspect are welcome to comment.

I fully appreciate the note on the Marantz SA-1 player as a "search is over" final component. I have noticed that they are now appearing on the re-sale market for a good price. I just wish they were a little closer to my budget.

Lou

Lkdog-

Just an update. Where you position the sheet makes a difference. Under the TRL 2000es is the best location and I also attached a fine silver wire between the sheet and the player and ran it to a metal weight.

Sonic improvement: "Gypsy Soul" track called "Slash" the heavy guitar since it is recorded close miked has less reverb. As a matter of fact I will have to say due to the tweek this resonance all but elimintate from my speakers.

For those who do not have this disc try "Tiny Island" on Opus 3 label track 4 the first 50 seconds is a small instrument that some of you will recognize. Try the before and after test and you will hear what this tweek does.

Jes45-

Yep you are right Jack. Running a wire from the static enclosure to a ground will probably be more effective than what I made up. It removed feedback from the close miked guitar and removed a compressed bass anomaly from the "Gypsy Soul" disc-new flamenco. Everything sounds more vinyl and has an added character that just simply keeps you drawn to the music. The bass got firmer and gutsier and the top end smoothed out. In this Hobby this type of improvement would cost over $200.

The flamenco disc by the way has Jesse Cook, Al Di Meola, Paco de Lucia, Ottmar Liebert etc. In the wrong system the disc is bright and aggressive but when everything is jelling, its very very good. Nice test disc.

Lou

LKdog-

You are right, this maybe set up or equipment dependent. I really hope Jes45 is able to get some anti-static sheets. I am interested in his input.

Jes45-

This has to do with the "Full Image" pre by the designer.
My hunch about antistatic has to do with Don Smith who told me that one of his design specs is to ground static electricity. For some reason I got to thinking that the cd itself has its own charge and it might affect the sound. Boy if you fellas were here you will hear how this has upgraded my system. The question is will it only work in some situations?

Lkdog,

Interesting that it works in my set up using the lighter Sony 2000es. I believe the SA-14 is over $3k new compared to the Sony. Yep it must be better shielded. You're lucky to have it.

Did you try using the sheets and cd directly? Jes45 whats your experience?

I repeated the experiment last night and confirmed that the change is not subtle.

Anyone using the Sony if you could try the sheets let us know.

Nope, its my fault for the confusion. You can place the antistatic sheet on top or under the player wherever it works best. You can also put your cd into an enclosure that is antistatic and test the results.

Hope this helps. By the way Do you have Paul's number? I seem to have misplaced it.

Thanks

Sbayne-

Yes, I have the ERS sheets in small pieces combined with copper shielding. I just applied a few pieces around the transport area. Keep in mind I am using the Sony 2000es which has no shielding. The transport is entirely plastic so I intended to add some tuning material.

I have not completed the application but the preliminary outlook the background has a quietly formed 'stillness'.

The anti-static sheet I am using unfortunately I have to find how and where I can get them. These could be a special grade but I will try to contact someone I know that might know about them and get back to you guys.

Hchi-

I applied the ERS with copper sheets in strategic but safe areas around the transport. There is good space inside the Sony so its easy to apply. I am going at each application in small steps stoping and listening each step of the way.

I am using certain discs that I know have very little information and hope that the tuning will open up the sound even more without trading off musicality.

There is no science to this just a lot of fun experiments.

Hi Reb,

Thanks for the info on your TRL phono stage. You make a very good observation that all the mods share the same 'characteristcs', lower noise and smoother presentation without sacrificing detail. Very interesting since its anybody's guess what Paul and CO. are doing.

On the Marantz SA-11, I assume a shipment came in and TRL is now shipping out these players.

Audioezra,

Well said. So I take it that you are underwhelmed with your TRL and your SA-14 player? Frankly, I am disappointed that I have not paid over $2,000 for my mod player. I have gotten so used to paying for high performance and getting less for my money.

Now I am lost. I don't know what to do with the extra money I have since going with TRL.

Jes45-

I am in hot pursuit. I am trying to source the antistatic envelope I have and so far its from Germany. Stay tuned.

Lou

Howard-

Did you pay a good price for your Marantz 9500? I like the Universal aspect and with the TRL mod, I assume the Video section will remain intact.

If you have a source for that player (the gold finish sounds fascinating) please email me directly.

Thanks

Hi Howard,

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. As for a free public sharing web store for uploading pix, your best bet maybe your local library or College. If you know someone there they can do the upload. There are some internet cafe's around so a google search might give some good results.

Good luck with fedex. You should not have any issues with your claim. In my case my crated speakers had a hole on the side and the only damage was the surface skin cracked. The speaker is a poly-resin and kevlar body that will not break. This was fortunate since a more fragile speaker might have had more damage.

Hi Islandflyfisher,

What you are asking for if anyone compared their TRL SA14 with one of the DAC listed may be rare indeed. Your best bet is to re-read the thread again. There is no doubt in several minds on this thread that the $550 cost will transform your player to a very high level. I have heard the Benchmark but in a foreign system. I did hear an a-b comparison with and without, and I barely heard the improvement.

There are just too many who have experienced the change in their system compared to what they had before and if you are thinking that this is a high risk decision, don't worry its not since the mod has a full refund.

As for the TRL SA-14 comparison to the Denon 3910 mod player, its more a matter of money in your case. Unless its important to you that you have the 'best' modded player. You might want to check with APL or RAM since TRL does not mod the 3910 which is ultimately the only way you will know for sure.

Good luck

Lkdog-

Yes its the naturalness of the sound thats maybe the central point of the mod. Whether it competes against an LP system is probably unfair since the LP itself is superior in many ways to a cd.

Anyone with a high quality turntable system please comment on this? I regret that I do not own an LP system. Is there a common character between the TRL mod and your LP?

84Audo,

Very incitefull stuff. Thanks for sharing info on your experience with DAC-transport combo and how they compare to the stock SA-14. Your Exemplar 2900 mod sounds interesting. For info how much is the Tucker mod? He has a good reputation for making a nice product.

I wonder how the TRL SA-14 compares to a high quality turntable system. Anyone?

Hi,

LKdog, thanks for sharing your impressions on the differences. I just heard the Marantz SA-1 player side by side comparison to a Technics table (highly modified) and great LP playback system. Vinyl rules and the difference in this system is a 'character' that digital has yet to achieve and may not achieve. Sacd does this character at the surface level but the intrinsic 'character' is deep within the music itself. The LP seems to grab this by the throat.

The Marantz player is very impressive indeed. Sacd playback was outstanding and cd's had lots of bounce in the midrange but sacd just trounces it in the lower midrange and very top end areas. The LP just elevates all aspects of music beyond sacd. They each satify on different levels however and I can live with the Marantz or LP since they both make it easy.

This is just my observation on comparing the experience of the two mediums.

Lkdog- You are so right on the "a great LP" will hit the target. So many more great LP sources than what I have seen on modern day redbook. Your set up sounds like its cooking though and I would love to get back into vinyl again.

Jes45- Hope you are trying cycle-burning the SA-14. Play system 24 hours 3 days then turn completely off for 1 whole day. Slower but nice results IMHO.

Oldpet-

Yeah. Lets start a new thread indeed. This has been so much fun. For anyone interested I have improved the 2000es TRL Sony by adding and reinforcing the transport mehanism. If you take a close look you will see the type of material used for the structure.

I am indeed enjoying my Sony TRL 2000es and it has more to go. Until I complete this hairbrain project I will reserve comment on how much the additional support helps the transport at a later time. For now my system is down as my tube amp has stopped working....bummer.