TRL Marantz Sa-14

La45-

Without a doubt the Marantz build quality and appearance is more attractive. Helluva player with the TRL mod.

La45 - I've ordered the X-2 cables and they take a couple weeks to ship. The X-1 cables should be here soon and I'll be able to listen to them for a bit prior to swapping in the X-2s. Hopefully I'll have my Sony next week and can start the break in process.

Clio09-

You have X-2's? Thats great news. Very interested in your opinion now that you have the X-1s. And I appreciate if you would let us know your impression of the Sony TRL.

Lkdog-

Thanks for the response. Everything at this point is system dependent not to mention personal taste. I did not like the Sony's appearance compared to the Marantz.

La45 - I'll report on the Sony when I get it, hopefully this week. However, I have never heard the TRL Marantz so I can't make a direct comparison.

I actually spotted a pair of 1m Oritek X-1 ICs here today and bought them. I'll compare them to the X-2s and a few other cables I have lying around.

La45-

It is a bit hard to put my finger on the difference. Paul says the 900 measures out the most neutral of any unit they have modded. This can be a good thing, or not, depending upon your
perspective. The SA14 probably had a slight lower midbass and/or lower range bump that I really liked. Maybe it was just the interaction in my system. Since TRL modded my integrated amp also-it is very neutral also so I think I can discern source and cable nuances pretty well..
Both units are incredibly quiet, detailed, and void of glare.
Maybe I will try the Oriteks sometime. Many folks like them.

Lkdog,

Thats great to hear. I was wondering if I really needed to consider making another change and frankly I wanted to settle with something good. And the TRL Marantz SA-14 is really good! The one thing Paul mentioned was that the Sony NS900 had even lower noise (less digital noise). So I worked on the Marantz and it has improved in this area.

ClioO9,

Lkdog says the Sony NS-900 is different than the Marantz TRL. Is this your opinion also?

Let me know how the X-2 works in your set up. I might make the same move to the X-2. There is something 'just right'. The ship has arrived response with the Oritek in the system is very satisfactory.

I am going to be trying the Oritek X-2 shortly on my TRL Sony DVP-NS900V. If I see a used X-1 I'll be all over it. Too much has been said about these cable to ignore them.

Lkdog-

It made everything very articulate and coherent. I compared it to the Acoustic Zen Matrix II. While the Zen adds more body, bass and warmth, the Ori cable is wonderful in speed, balance, and low noise. Of the two, the Oritek is more neutral. It also adds more emotion, you just feel more connected to the sound.

The Oritek X-1 noise level is very low so there is alot of "air" around instruments especially cymbals, saxophone (try Antiphone Blues cut 2)and guitar strings. Very involving indeed.

Enyas voice (Watermark) is more articulate, I can understand her words. Very nice improvement especially at the used price found on Audiogon. Its a keeper.

La45-

Well, no need to wonder about which is better. They are both wonderful players. The TRL SA14 is simply different than the TRL Sony 900.

The cable you are happy with is the Oritek X-1 I am assuming.
What did it sem to do in your system?

Hi Guys,

For those of you that still have the Marantz SA-14 TRL, the new cable in my system has improved things tremendously.
But first an update. I have gone to tubes all around. The set up is Full Image Pre replacing the Meitner Switchman and my powerfull and elegant SET showing off the muscle power of 8 watts! It packs a wallop on these speakers.

Its driving a pair of Rosinante Gabriel full range speakers at 95db. With the addition of the Oritek X-1 music is now playing in my room every night.

In addition, I will be adding a device to the mix that hopefully will remove any last hint of digital. This device comes recommended by a reputable source known for sniffing out these low cost items. The claim is that the sound is analog for under $200.

Stay tuned.

And last but not least, I have alot of respect for what Paul has done especially with the Sony NS900. But I am afraid the Marantz SA-14 TRL is here to stay simply because of its performance and aesthetic appeal. I am sure the NS900 is far better musically but I will keep the Marantz SA-14 TRL especially with the addition of the Oritek X-1 and the prospects of additonal improvements from the disc treatment itself.

Guys,
Because I still have Tice Audio Sig PBIII HP and a few other stuff around, I thought I will give them a try also. Who knows if TRL 14 being modded to be battery powered, then there won't be much concerned; but I also wonder how much improvement could be there for a battery powered 14 over the standard AC powered 14?

Howard,

In the past Paul mentioned that they have modified the ART Pro 40 power conditioners. As Lkdog said, he is not crazy about power conditioners in general, but from what I understand this is what he uses when he does his live recordings and doesn't have access to clean power at the venue.

Howard-

You might email Paul. He is not crazy about them, but may have a recommendation based upon how they did the power supply mods in the player.

Besides La45, does anyone else plug his/her TRL 14 into any power condition units? If so what brand and model is used and what are the differences? Thanks.

Rich-

Its a very old transformer type conditioner . I would suggest looking at the PS Audio line of conditioners. They have several types, regenerator, transformer etc.

IMO any of these will do the job. In my case I had mine sitting in the closet for a long time. It was originally made to protect the computer.

What kind (and brand) of conditioner are you using.

Richard
(I just own the plain ol' SA14)

Lkdog-

I remembered one day a moder that I used to communicate with saying that the digital front end will not sound right without a filter. This was several years ago. I am a believer now.

I don't turn on my Player without turning on the Conditioner, can't go backwards.

LA45-

Interesting. Line Conditioners and Power Conditioners are a topic of huge debate-but if they work in your house with the power coming into your area-that is the bottom line.
I have always been curious about them.

Just wanted to add my recent observation. I pulled out an old Line conditioner and connected the Marantz Sa-14 TRL and I must say this changed things significantly.

This is an old Transformer type conditioner that buzzes in a seperate room away from the listening area but boy o boy this thing doubled by soundstage lifting the imaging off the speakers and creating a surround sound effect. I am over joyed!

TRL family Holiday

I am running full balance output by the way.

Drew_w Still waiting to hear if the TRL-14 met your expectations ? Did you try the balanced outputs ? The rca and balanced out's on that unit are broken-in. Let us all know how it's going.

Joe-

Good information to know. Thanks.
I have read that on other Marantz units the balanced is a bit better also for some people in their system.

Gentleman: Please be advised that the balanced circuit is more enhanced in the TRL SA-14. Which will need it's own break-in time. I have been using the balanced circuit for over 500 hours and it is a delight. Have a blessed New Year to you all, Joe

Lkdog: I beleive that they optimize both single ended and balanced outputs.

Best,

Jack

Drew-

I think there might be some reference to that in this thread somewhere :)

I would maybe email TRL. I actually have not heard any strong preference stated either way by anyone in the last six months and they have done quite a few of these I believe.

Comments on balanced versus single-ended connections for the TRL 14?

Hi Joe,

Brian Kyle has an ad right here at Audiogon.

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1140114500

It's worth every penny ...

Jack

Hi Jack: How much is the Gold formulation and where is the best place to purchase? Have a great new year, Joe

TRL Family:

Please try the new Xtreme AV Quicksilver "GOLD" formulation. It is pretty amazing stuff. Wider & deeper stage, lower noise floor, increased micro dynamics, sharper more well defined imaging, higher resolution.

You will hear so much that was lost in the blur before. Lost details are now present.

Try it. You'll thank me later.

Jack

Quicksilver is the real deal.
It is used by many professional modders, including TRL.
I would recommend trying it out as it makes a noticeable positive difference for many people.

However they are doing it everything on the TRL Marantz SA-14 is stellar. Its funny you mentioned the ERS cloth. Since the player just reached the 200+ break in mark, the addition of the ERS cloth elevated the sound especially in the midband to upper frequency area.

The sound is more refined with the cloth. No I have not opened the player to peak at the mods as I did with the Sony 2000es but I will say this, I don't feel the need to since the music is all I care about.

I am using the old Focal tweeter (made famous by the old Wilson Watt system) and its very unforgiving if the source is not balanced at the top. The TRL Marantz is very balanced.

I've owned Tube Research products for over 13 years and it has always taken a long period of time for them to break in and achieve the "TRL House Sound".

I don't like what ERS does, and I won't use it anywhere in my system. It kills the micro dynamics and life, IMHO.

Quicksilver is another story ...

FYI, I've applied Quicksilver everywhere I could on my SA-14 before sending it off to TRL. It returned sounding quite different.

Jack

ERS may be part of their tweak toolchest, but it alone cannot explain the dramatic improvements they can obtain on typical units. I have used ERS extensively in my own tweaking activities, but I could never get my old CD players to sound like my TRL Sony 2000ES.

Quicksilver only takes 72 hours to settle in so it is not a major contributor to the long break-in period.

My now modified Marantz SA-14 unit is being shipped back to me this week from TRL. I may pop the cover out of curiosity to see what it looks like inside, but in the end my interest is to just enjoy the music, so I won't obsess about what they actually did to the unit.

I use the HRS damping plates, mainly on my speakers, and am anxious to try the Nimbus dampers under my amp and preamp.

Reb1208,

What phono stage did you have TRL modify? I have thought about sending them one of mine to modify.

As to ERS, I have spoken to Paul Weitzel and asked him if I should use ERS in my DAC. He said NO, further adding that they actually remove ERS from units that come in to them for mods. He indicated that ERS sucks the life out of the music. In looking at the DAC chips, while I believe they are dampened, it's difficult to say how as there is epoxy covering the chips. I have my doubts though that it is ERS, but if it is, it would have to be a tiny amount. The chips in my DAC are TD-1543s and they are pretty small.

As to Quicksilver, not sure about that, although Paul's brother Brian recommended I use it on ICs, RCA jacks and speaker terminations. Maybe Jack Seaton can weigh in on this as he has a number of TRL modded units.

TRL using ERS cloth to cover D to A chips as part of their digital mod? Based upon combined info gathered, I think so. ERS is used to shield the chips from emitting RFI. The sonic effect is to tilt the spectrum towards warmth, weight and body. Applying Quicksilver contact enhancer to the solder joints helps bring things back in balance. This explains the reports of a quieter signal with enhanced harmonics (ESR). As well as the reports of a treble that takes time to settle and in the end remains extended. (Silver based contact enhancer).

Feel free to chime in.

I myself own a TRL modded phono stage, its still here, so I guess that says something.

Jay,
I would echo Clio09's commens, try CRL Gold if you like the CRL sonic attributes and would like to get more density in your overall sound. If memory serves me right, CRL Gold use about twice amount of copper (gauge-wise). The other way to explore is to try some top quality graphite-based dampers underneath. Do you live in HK? If so and interested, please email me and I can point you to a couple good graphite damper makers/manufactures in Asia whom I have tried their products with good results.

I know a couple TRL users are also using HRS Nimbus dampers. Perhaps the Nimbus users could shed some light whether it yields improvement in that area.

Jsala,

My speakers are not very efficient either, Spendor 1/2e, but the amp is getting the most out of them now. After some initial issues with break-in, I think the Joule and the D-225 work nicely together.

I am using the CRL Silver on my transport and the D-225 amp. I have a Virtual Dynamics NIte II on the preamp and I use a VH Flavor 4 on the DAC. I was thinking about going with all CRL Silver power cords as I don't experience the thinness you do. Obviously everything is system dependent, but I hear the CRL Gold will deliver more, especially in the bass, maybe that would be better for your system. I do like the VH Audio cables though, great price for great quality.

What tubes do you use in the Joule, I'm thinking of experimenting.

Clio,

We have the same preamp (Joule Electra LA-100 Mk3). I've got mine hooked up to an Acoustic Reality digital amp (200+ watts into 8 ohms) so lots of juice for my speakers, which are simple 2 ways (though not very efficient). I find the overall sound a bit thin when I use the CRL Silver power cord on the TRL/SA14, not sure what your experience is. For my system, an AirSine power cord is a better match with the TRL/SA14, though I haven't bought one (I tried a friend's) since it is $750 for 6 feet...

- Jay

There is a Marantz SA-1 listed for $2350. It would be really interesting for someone to pick up this unit and get it modded by TRL. Since people mention that the stock SA-1 is an outstanding machine, it would be interesting to see what Paul and company could improve.

Cuz,

Not there yet hope to have BIT at 300 very soon. I have tubes now so I don't run the system all the time.

Clio09: Glad you kept the extra HRS plates now? Have you tried the maple butcher block under the amp yet? (I spoke to Brian).

Lkdog: I remember our kitchen remodel. Establish your budget and add another 30 to 40 percent as you go along. It's worth every penny. Especially when you see your Wifes face once it is completed and she is showing it to one of her friends. Kind of reminds me of ourselves when we bring something cool home, like a new amplifier, for example.

LA45: Hey Cuz, I definitely love the looks of the 14 and yes, it will make you sleep a lot less than you should. You should be getting closer to 300 hours by now ...

Jack

La45 - yes this is the new line of solid state amps. The ST-225 integrated has been out for a little while and while that was something I was interested in, I decided to keep my Joule Electra LA-100 MkIII as a tube preamp and TRL was experimenting with this prototype amp and well the rest is history. I won't be able to compare the sound of this versus the TRL tube amps since I never had them, but I can and will compare the D-225 to my own tube amp. TRL claims these new solid state designs expose how noisy their tube designs were, but TRL, like most of us into tubes, accept the noise in exchange for other sonic qualities. Well the solid state line is supposed to offer the best of both worlds - less noise (my amp is very quiet, not more transformer hum when I put my ear to the speaker, not at any volume level) and tube sonics. I will have to wait a bit more before I render an opinion on that.

Lkgod - I used to use sand bags on top of my speakers. This is a great and inexpensive tweak (lead bags work too), but can be over done. Experimenting with it is fun though. I use HRS plates now. I use the rubber/cork thingies under the D-225 since it doesn't come with feet.

Jack - lucky I never sold those extra HRS plates, I now use a large and medium plate on top of the D-225.

La45- The most obvious change @ around 300 hours will be bass extension from my experience FWIW.
I was also a little anxious about bass weight and extension, but once it kicks in you should have it in spades. Very clean natural extended weighty low end IMO.

Not sure why the sandbags on top made an enhancement, but it must have helped the unit dampening a bit even though it is well built and heavy and I think TRL does some dampening also.
I am using the TRL supplied isoblock type things underneath for isolation.
Isolation and dampening tweaks are so system and room and floor and rack specific.
Seemed to help on my already very heavy DIY MDF rack which is on a cement floor. Who knows how sound travels and reverberates at the mcro level in each room.
I never ceased to be amazed as to how every little element of a system and setup can make a difference (sometimes + and sometimes not so +).

Keep us posted.

Jack/LK,

Thanks for giving me the timeframe. Compared to a fully broken in TRl/Sony 2000es, the TRL/Marantz SA-14 v2 sounds like a lightweight instead of a middleweight Sony. So knowing there is a way to go is encouraging since in most other aspects this thing sounds more musical.

I am leary placing anything on top of the Marantz except for a soft sexy cloth. I have a tuning set of feet (my own design) that works fine under my SET also. But thats me.

Clio09- Is this the solid state amp that Paul claims sounds better than his previous top of the line tube amp?
Look forward to hearing your final impressions.

Jack--I am losing sleep all over again. Late night fun is back and the player is gorgeous sexy to look at. I have been switching back and forth between rca and balanced and at this point they are both very close in sound with a slight edge to the rca.

BIT is 230 hours counting...

Listening to the D225 now and spoke to Brian Weitzel today about my initial impressions. Right now the low end is performing fantastic. The mid-range is coming around and the vocals are exquisite. The high end is a bit harsh but after a 100 hours or so will smooth out. This amp does not require the full break-in as it was the prototype and has undergone quite a bit of testing at TRL. Some tweaks were done at the last minute and these are the parts that require break in. One thing for sure, this amp drives my Spendors in a way the Cary V12i could not. That is no knock on the Cary, just the reality of 225 watts solid state versus 50 watts triode.

The fact that my preamp seems to be passing a signal to the D225 even with the volume turned down completely resulting in my hearing faint music coming from the speakers puzzles me (not a D225 issue). Also, I'm still playing around with the best set-up for the D225 and may actually move it to a maple butcher block amp stand (Brian's suggestion) to see what difference this might make in sound.

Obviously my weekend is booked. I'll probably start another thread to report back. One last note, this thing is a monster weighing in at 65 lbs. and measuring somewhere in the neighborhood of 21" x 24" x 4".

Jack-

LOL! Kitchen almost done. Had turkey day here and we broke in the new oven. I am broke now so doing cheap tweaks :)
Kitchen remodels are the crack-cocaine of today's women.

Am wondering about power conditioning for the TRL SA14.
The Audio Magic Mini Digital looks interesting.

As for the tweaks-I changed the coupling material between my speaker stands and my ACI Jaguar monitors, and also am now using two ziplock bags of sand on top of the TRL SA 14.
Both made a difference, especially switching to Blu Tack underneath the ACI Jags.
System sounding great-wish I could buy the TRL power amp.
I think the Jags would enjoy a bit more juice than 150 x 2.

Clio09 has the new D225 TRL basic amp (not integrated). Got it yesterday. I can't wait to hear his impressions.

Lkdog: How have you been? Any new changes to the system? And the kitchen remodel ... ?

Jack

Agree that around 300 hours it really kicks in.
Changes continue after that but they seem more incremental.

Hello Cuz,

It's not going to sound "right" until it reaches around 300 hours. that's when the bottom end and lower mids fleshed out for me and the image focus tightened up dramatically.

Mine kept sounding better up until around 550 to 600 hours, although, to be honest, I didn't keep that close of tabs on the hours after the 300 hour mark.

After the 300 hour mark, I just sat back and enjoyed the music. I still find myself staying up later than I should ...

Keep us informed, LA45 and Shuang.

Best,

I am running non-balanced as my integrated does not have balanced connections.

Was wondering of anyone uses power conditioning of any type on this unit?
Was thinking of an Audio Magic Mini Digital passive unit, or a modded ART unit Paul at TRL suggested.