"...I’m pretty sure you used the word fester incorrectly..."Yes, in the post involving geoffkait, he meant to use "pester".
Too good a post to waste
On a thread that is a running example of the textual equivalent of nonstop cat videos. So here it is again.
I could understand the cables are snake-oil doubters and take them seriously- in 1980. Back then there was no internet, Stereo Review was pretty much it, and Julian Hirsch was the Oracle of all things audio. Stereo Review and Julian Hirsch said if it measures the same it sounds the same. Wire is wire, and that was that.
Even then though J. Gordon Holt had already started the movement that was to become Stereophile. JGH took the opposing view that our listening experience is what counts. Its nice if you can measure it but if you can’t that’s your problem not ours.
Stereo Review and the measurers owned the market back then. The market gave us amplifier wars, as manufacturers competed for ever more power with ever lower distortion. For years this went on, until one day "measures great sounds bad" became a thing.
Could be some here besides me lived through and remember this. If you did, and if you were reading JGH back then, I tip my hat to you, sir! I fell prey to Hirsch and his siren song that you can have it all for cheap and don’t really have to learn to listen. Talk about snake-oil! A lot of us bought into it. Sorry to say.
But anyway like I was saying it was easy to believe the lie back then because it was so prevalent and also because what wire there was that sounded better didn’t really sound a whole lot better.
Now though even budget wire sounds so much better than what comes off a reel you’d have to be deaf not to notice. Really good wires sound so good you’d notice even if you ARE deaf! No kidding. My aunt Bessie was deaf as a stone but she could FEEL the sound at a high enough volume, knew it was music. The dynamic punch of my CTS cables is so much greater than ordinary 14 ga wire I would bet my deaf from birth aunt Bessie could "hear" the difference. Certain so-called audiophiles here, I'm not so sure.
Oh and not done beating the dead horse quite yet, according to my calendar its 2020, a solid 40 years past 1980. Stereo Review is dead and buried. Stereophile lives on. A whole multi-billion dollar industry built on wire not being wire thrives. Maybe the measurement people can chalk up and quantify from that just how many years, and billions, they are out of date and in denial.
I could understand the cables are snake-oil doubters and take them seriously- in 1980. Back then there was no internet, Stereo Review was pretty much it, and Julian Hirsch was the Oracle of all things audio. Stereo Review and Julian Hirsch said if it measures the same it sounds the same. Wire is wire, and that was that.
Even then though J. Gordon Holt had already started the movement that was to become Stereophile. JGH took the opposing view that our listening experience is what counts. Its nice if you can measure it but if you can’t that’s your problem not ours.
Stereo Review and the measurers owned the market back then. The market gave us amplifier wars, as manufacturers competed for ever more power with ever lower distortion. For years this went on, until one day "measures great sounds bad" became a thing.
Could be some here besides me lived through and remember this. If you did, and if you were reading JGH back then, I tip my hat to you, sir! I fell prey to Hirsch and his siren song that you can have it all for cheap and don’t really have to learn to listen. Talk about snake-oil! A lot of us bought into it. Sorry to say.
But anyway like I was saying it was easy to believe the lie back then because it was so prevalent and also because what wire there was that sounded better didn’t really sound a whole lot better.
Now though even budget wire sounds so much better than what comes off a reel you’d have to be deaf not to notice. Really good wires sound so good you’d notice even if you ARE deaf! No kidding. My aunt Bessie was deaf as a stone but she could FEEL the sound at a high enough volume, knew it was music. The dynamic punch of my CTS cables is so much greater than ordinary 14 ga wire I would bet my deaf from birth aunt Bessie could "hear" the difference. Certain so-called audiophiles here, I'm not so sure.
Oh and not done beating the dead horse quite yet, according to my calendar its 2020, a solid 40 years past 1980. Stereo Review is dead and buried. Stereophile lives on. A whole multi-billion dollar industry built on wire not being wire thrives. Maybe the measurement people can chalk up and quantify from that just how many years, and billions, they are out of date and in denial.
324 responses Add your response
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The “genius” who lists “stock cables” on his profile Audiogon Systems. That says it all. No way. Yes way! https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/3676 Not only freebie rubber power cords, but lamp cord to the speakers. Nothing to do now but apologize. Sorry, almarg. I had no idea. Sorry. |
The “genius” who lists “stock cables” on his profile Audiogon Systems. That says it all.Seems like a meticulous person who thinks that "everything matters" and lists it without hiding. Including the brand of stylus cleaner. Well, maybe he was embarassed to list Magic Pebbles, but we can understand that. |
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Gentlemen (and others), this thread is not about me or my system. My initial lengthy post which precipitated much of the recent argument provided technical explanations supportive of the belief that cables can sound different depending on the application in which they are used. That belief being widely (and IMO correctly) held by many audiophiles. Subsequent responses insulting my system constitute "argumentum ad hominem." As stated in that Wikipedia writeup: ... argumentum ad hominem is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. This avoids genuine debate by creating a diversion to some irrelevant but often highly charged issue. Regards, -- Al |
Al, I was not criticizing your system, I was complementing your writing style, which can sometimes constitute an illogical argument in itself. It’s the art of the legal mind to sway audiences with language. Sometimes it’s just too good to be true. Unemotional, careful, logical, courteous, friendly. 😃 Johnny Cochran springs to mind. As I said you almost had me going on your excellent by fallacious argument that fuse directionality is actually produced by the fuse holder. Kudos on that one! It was very convincing! 🤗 |
Many posts around here claim some science and technology that is frequently unreadable. Some of the time because it may be too complicated for me, some of the time because it is poorly written. There is nothing wrong with being able to present one's thoughts in a readable manner. I cannot argue if almarg's post was correct, or not, but it was readable. Now, if instead of equaling decent writing skills with incorrect statements, one could argue about them in similar and coherently written style, it could be beneficial. Otherwise it is just whining "Yo re convincing and therefore you must be wrong because I am right and have never convinced anybody." |
Congratulations glupson for being able to sound out the words. Even the big long ones? "Kuh Paa See Tance. Kuhpaaseetance. Capacitance. Got it! Wonder what that means? Oh well. At least its readable!" A dazzling display of logic. Probably unintended, what you have done is called damning by faint praise. Look it up. Go on. Live a little. PS- Stock Power Cords. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/3676 (oh and you can see the lamp cord going to a speaker in a photo too!) |
Miller I know Al is more than capable of speaking up for and defending himself on here although my guess is that he is probably done with your banality but..... WTF is wrong with you? This from a guy who has the arrogance to name system parts after himself, I mean seriously... Miller Solid Core Door??? I guess I have to post again as you willfully ignored these parts of Als system.
Actually did you ever think before you decided to deride a member who has been of great service on technical questions to MANY members here over the years? Just sad........ |
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Thanks, Grant ( @tvad ). You are correct on all counts. And yes, I am delinquent in updating my system description thread. There have also been a few relatively minor changes in the past year or so (mainly due to problems which have arisen with the vintage tuner and cassette deck), but the major one is the amplifier change. And thanks as well to some of the others who have posted recently. You know who you are. Again, though, as I said earlier: ... this thread is not about me or my system. My initial lengthy post which precipitated much of the recent argument provided technical explanations supportive of the belief that cables can sound different depending on the application in which they are used. That belief being widely (and IMO correctly) held by many audiophiles. Best, -- Al |
Back to Stereo Review. I subscribed to it for a year or two, until I noticed that every review of a questionable component (including some serious lemons) ended with (the sound/performance/etc).... 'was among the best we have heard in its class'. You had to stop and wonder what that meant. After I stopped my subscription, I kept getting free copies for the next 6 months, showing they cared more about the size of their subscriber base than on the amount (20 cents or so) I was paying them per issue. |
millercarbon, "Notice he doesn't deny any of it. No system.And still can't find even one constructive comment in any of his 23k posts. Interesting." Yes, but it's still very early days. Magic pebbles and teleportation tweaks obviously need more careful testing and evaluation, don't they? What about these glowing testimonials from the machinadynamica website? : [I purchased a 6-bottle suite of Machina Dynamica's Brilliant Pebbles that gave quite audible improvements to my tubed amp & DAC and CD transport in a nearfield listening setup. More clarity, detail, texture, deep bass pitch definition and a lot less digital glare." Sept 2005] [I cannot listen to my system any more without the pebbles." - Hans-Peter, Switzerland, 2004] [NEW!! "Geoff, I have the better part of an hour determining the efficacy of the Teleportation Tweak, may I claim it has exceeded all my expectations? This from a violin instructor. My initial evaluation of the Teleportation Tweak is that any bass boom that had existed is totally gone. I must admit this is the best tweak I have ever attempted." - Singapore, June 2011 (distance 9660 miles or 15500 kilometers)] [NEW!! "How in the world does this work, but I have clearer sound and better imaging. You have to try it to believe it!!!!!" - April 2010] [NEW!! "The Machina Dynamica Teleportation Tweak works! All I can say is that it increased detail, definition and focus, and increased depth and imaging in the soundstage."] ["Another logic defying tweak from Geoff. In fact, he has outdone himself with this recent invention. The man is truly gifted...a genius who is also humble! I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Geoff. " - December 2007] This all counts for something, doesn't it? What does this all tell us? |
