On a thread that is a running example of the textual equivalent of nonstop cat videos. So here it is again.
I could understand the cables are snake-oil doubters and take them seriously- in 1980. Back then there was no internet, Stereo Review was pretty much it, and Julian Hirsch was the Oracle of all things audio. Stereo Review and Julian Hirsch said if it measures the same it sounds the same. Wire is wire, and that was that.
Even then though J. Gordon Holt had already started the movement that was to become Stereophile. JGH took the opposing view that our listening experience is what counts. Its nice if you can measure it but if you can’t that’s your problem not ours.
Stereo Review and the measurers owned the market back then. The market gave us amplifier wars, as manufacturers competed for ever more power with ever lower distortion. For years this went on, until one day "measures great sounds bad" became a thing.
Could be some here besides me lived through and remember this. If you did, and if you were reading JGH back then, I tip my hat to you, sir! I fell prey to Hirsch and his siren song that you can have it all for cheap and don’t really have to learn to listen. Talk about snake-oil! A lot of us bought into it. Sorry to say.
But anyway like I was saying it was easy to believe the lie back then because it was so prevalent and also because what wire there was that sounded better didn’t really sound a whole lot better.
Now though even budget wire sounds so much better than what comes off a reel you’d have to be deaf not to notice. Really good wires sound so good you’d notice even if you ARE deaf! No kidding. My aunt Bessie was deaf as a stone but she could FEEL the sound at a high enough volume, knew it was music. The dynamic punch of my CTS cables is so much greater than ordinary 14 ga wire I would bet my deaf from birth aunt Bessie could "hear" the difference. Certain so-called audiophiles here, I'm not so sure.
Oh and not done beating the dead horse quite yet, according to my calendar its 2020, a solid 40 years past 1980. Stereo Review is dead and buried. Stereophile lives on. A whole multi-billion dollar industry built on wire not being wire thrives. Maybe the measurement people can chalk up and quantify from that just how many years, and billions, they are out of date and in denial.
millercarbon, I am going to tell you how it is. A number of us have been on this site for many years. We have a history together. I have been mostly a silent member until a year or two ago. I am a CPA and do not have a background in electricity and don’t care a bit, although, truth be told, my last position was director of tax for a power utility.
You made a huge mistake when you insulted almarg a few days ago. He is among, if not the most polite and respected members here. There is no coming back from such a blunder in my eyes. So kindly do not use my post in any way to further whatever your agenda is. There is absolutely no common ground between us.
Okay jetter (or is it Sire?) but me being the new kid and you being the big CPA tax director and all, why don’t you help me out. Put together a spreadsheet for me. You can list all the registered users ranked according to importance so I will know. Because being ignorant of accounting rules I was under the impression people came here to post and share and debate ideas. Was mostly oblivious to the whole kiddy playground in group aspect. (Although got to say, first in-group I ever heard of with lurkers who don’t participate for years then feel entitled to lecture, but oh well learn something new every day!)
One thing I don’t quite get though. You said nothing when in your eyes I insulted almarg. Did not for the record insult him at all. He presented his position and reasons, I presented mine. Not the same but as others correctly noted there is room for both as both have their merits. Almarg certainly made his case well. Better than you make yours, that’s for sure.
But I digress. It was one thing when you thought I was insulting almarg. But now you can no longer remain silent. Now you are all up in arms. Over.... geoffkait.
There is no coming back from such a blunder in my eyes.
No. But what would be the point? So you could come back later and say "Ahh but x in this study only equalled 1,367. Someone should do a study where everyone is blind, and deaf, and mute (sign language okay, maybe, but we should do two studies just to be sure) their genome is sequenced, and x equals one million three hundred thousand eight hundred and four. Oh and let's repeat it in four countries on three planets."
If you have the ability you can hear. If you can’t no amount of proof or reasons will ever be enough.
To the OP, yup, I remember those magazines, reading them constantly as a kid (I'm 44 now). Good times.
Does anyone know of a comprehensive study done where decent selection of people were gathered, their hearing tested, not just with music but gauging their capabilities and then run through blind testing without knowing anything about the gear or the changes, something like "you'll listen to this [or theses] track(s), you tell us what you hear, we'll switch and play it again and you... [wash rinse repeat for x amount of changes]" ?
millercarbon, I am going to tell you how it is. A number of us have been on this site for many years. We have a history together. I have been mostly a silent member until a year or two ago. I am a CPA and do not have a background in electricity and don’t care a bit, although, truth be told, my last position was director of tax for a power utility.
You made a huge mistake when you insulted almarg a few days ago. He is among, if not the most polite and respected members here. There is no coming back from such a blunder in my eyes. So kindly do not use my post in any way to further whatever your agenda is. There is absolutely no common ground between us.
Your starting to seem like someone whose whole life is actually siting by his computer using google to come up with information to try to impress the rest of us.
Ya think? Good to see people finally figuring this out. Why its taken so long I do not know.
Someone might want to go back and read through my posts. Very early on someone took me to task for what I at first thought was just due to your garden variety scientific illiteracy. Well they do a lousy job teaching these things so I at first thought that's all this is and explained.
From the response this got it was clear not only is there no understanding of electricity, there is no science either. Not only this, but it seemed what little there was was being used to confuse rather than understand. When you know a subject inside and out its easy to spot the fakers. This was not only a faker, it was malevolent, mean-spirited fakery.
What I mean is most fakers are posers. This was no poser. The poser is trying to join the in crowd. Like pretending to be a better more experienced and knowledgeable audiophile. But that's not what this was.
This was trying to make fools of audiophiles. This was having it in for audiophiles. This is up to no good. Like I said, go way back in my posting history and see for yourself.
Yes I got all this from twmy response left him flummoxed. Absolutely pegged, and in record time- two posts! Seriously, go back and read the history. It is there for all to see. Unlike the ones above, and probably this one, the erasers of history haven't gotten round to removing it.
So anyway like I said this was all apparent to me from reading just two posts. But it seemed so unlikely there could be anyone so deeply malevolent and disturbed I had to be sure. DYODD means Do Your Own Due Diligence. Site search. Web search. Sure enough, no evidence whatsoever of any genuine audiophile background, let alone interstellar starship engineering.
Its really sad the way he's been able to get away with this for so long. Chalk it up to the inherent good nature of most people, I guess. Anyone thinking there's any there there might want to do what I have done, DYODD, search around, see what you find. Then if you still want to engage, oh well. Price we pay for liberty. Personally, I think everyone, and the site, and frankly the whole field of audio would be much better off if we would all simply say move along, please. Permanent ignore. Move along. Please.
Fester waits for the Marshall while Kitty cooks cryo phillo dough. A new cable disturbs the town and the baker decries past critics as if discovering old fish smell. Did anyone listen then to the lips of market fresh pigs going to the gallows? Did they care it was lamp cord? March Sousa steps and wait along with Zen master Fester. Godot will come after the next song on the player piano, the ultimate source as proven by three blind men listening with one ear tied behind their firm fact brains.
....the 'cute' reference seems more like finding a burning Kraft bag of waste on your porch....but I just got here, and I think I'll just mosy on....*g*cringe*shuffle shuffle*
I remember back in the late 1970's, when I was a salesman at a high-end store in DC, having lots of visits from a guy who said he was just "kicking tires", not to bother us sales people. On one of my slow days I struck up a conversation and he said he was just "perplexed" how the specs on much of the equipment in our stores was much "worse" than the modestly priced equipment he had at home. I didn't engage him in one of my long-winded explanations as to why I thought that might have been. Long-story-short, he ended up spending a "pretty penny" with me and for a few years, sent me thank you's in his Christmas cards!
If that’s all you got I have bad news for you. You’re officially out of ammo. Come back when you’re able to actually debate a subject as opposed to running your mouth.
I don’t get angry, I get even. Try spending some time in a library, robberrttddidd, maybe you wouldn’t appear to be so ignorant. ta ta for now... 🤗 I don’t see any counter arguments, only lame personal attacks. Where’s the beef, dude? 🍔
It apparently doesn’t take very much to trigger roberttdid. Anything he’s never heard of before seems to do just fine. 😳 I say black he says white. So predictable. Long words like monochromatic throw him into a tizzy. 🤪 Don’t have an aneurism.
"But most of the scattered light - around 75% - is INVISIBLE
and not amenable to absorption by ANY color, including green,
turquoise, or even black."
It seems this is an advertisement for a product that claims to do what advertisement says it cannot do. What the heck?
Unfortunately, or is that fortunately, the statement is either wilfully or ignorantly incorrect. While orange may be the new black on TV, black is still black, and the most common black pigment is carbon black, which absorbs just fine, great actually at 780nm (and what would be used for the typically black plastic interiors).
Do you just make these things up? Laser Diodes are highly monochromatic. Cheap diodes in a CD player will have all their spectrum +/- 3nm. These are not LEDs (which are still more monochromatic).
The laser is not monochromatic but has an effective wavelength range of around 650-850 nm.
Any evidence on a good quality audiophile transport that your "devices" result in a reduction in uncorrectable C2 errors. Heck, you could start with a basic computer CD ripper (1x speed of course). It is rather shocking you don't have this already. Ideally the tests would be done by a 3rd party. It is not like you have the most trustworthy reputation.
geoffkait23,349 posts07-08-2020 8:50amAn innocent question: what evidence can change the mind of a Pseudo Skeptic? Answer at 11.
"New Dark Matter NDM, the newest product from Machina Dynamica, is the only audio product that absorbs both visible scattered laser light and invisible scattered light in CD players, thereby improving optical signal to noise ratio, thus improving sound quality."
You are amassing a sizeable work of complete misleading pseudo scientific nonsense of the worst kind in support of your business endeavours.
So many misleading, unfounded and unsupportable statements in one sentence.
A new high. Well done Mr P.
I look forward to reading the glowing testimonials that must surely follow. Don't keep us waiting.
Have you ever wondered why so many CDs sound thin, metallic, dynamically compressed, bland, generic, congealed, uninvolving, whimpy, electronic, analytical, two dimensional, lifeless, distorted, sour, synthetic, rolled off, thuddy, strident, and like paper mache? All of that is about to change.
New Dark Matter NDM, the newest product from Machina Dynamica, is the only audio product that absorbs both visible scattered laser light and invisible scattered light in CD players, thereby improving optical signal to noise ratio, thus improving sound quality. The CD laser nominal wavelength is 780 nm, which is about 80 nm longer than the longest visible red wavelength, 700 nm. The laser is not monochromatic but has an effective wavelength range of around 650-850 nm. This means most of the laser light, and scattered light, is INVISIBLE. The portion of the laser light below 700 nm is visible red, presumably as a safety feature.
The scattering of the laser light occurs when the laser beam strikes the physical nanoscale data on the CD. Then, scattered light reflects off surfaces inside the CD transport container, lighting up the interior like a Christmas tree. The Green Pen and other similar audiophile products (including our own Codename Turquoise tray treatment) affect the sound because they absorb scattered visible RED light. But most of the scattered light - around 75% - is INVISIBLE and not amenable to absorption by ANY color, including green, turquoise, or even black.
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