To Fuse or Not to Fuse... That is the question!

I suspect maybe my oft-repeated claim that “no fuse is better than any fuse” may have been misinterpreted. I was referring to my battery-powered CD player, which doesn’t require a fuse, any fuse, for obvious reasons. So, no fuse is just one advantage of many why a battery-powered, low-power, low mass, minimal design system can outperform. 

Build or modify gear to be mains fuseless. Simply bypass the fuse using proper gauge and insulated wire and install a Eaton/Heinemann on/off circuit breaker switch. I use 14 gauge solid core copper wire from Neotech in the power supply of my builds. This arrangement sounds better based on my listening and past builds/mods.

In the rare instance of an electrical issue the unit shuts down. No poor sounding cheap fuse or even big dollar expensive fuse to replace. Sounds better and costs less. High quality circuit breaker on/off switches are not sonically perfect, but they are less of a sonic compromise than a fuses. 

I have told no one to do such a thing. I asked a question. Can you not read?

Really!!! because indirectly just you did not listing the others. 

I may be in the near future buying copper tubing and installing it in place of a fuse

Ok, what I meant by No Fuse, was bypassing the fuse with copper or silver wire.

Ok.. I think I understand that no fuse is better than a cheap fuse.

 McIntosh 2105 with regular fuses,  I went all the way and replaced it with a piece of high purity silver wire. How did the sound change after you silver wired your McIntosh?

I am frantically searching a previous post in hopes to find what I think I read, that someone bypassed the fuses

It's this kind of suggestive talk that will maybe end someones life, this is a dangerous practice. Fuses have no direction, and do not sound better.

The only way a fuse can sound better if it's replaced with an old crusty one that seen many switch on surges.
A slow-blo ageing right to left
https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg

A fast-blo ageing left to right
https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20

Your better off spending $2 on an original new fuse, and save yourself >$98 as the ageing process will happen just as fast with the >$100 fuse.

Cheers George

I have told no one to do such a thing. I asked a question. Can you not read? 

You’ve now been told here by a couple of members who have more Electronic Engineering knowledge in their little pinkie than all of you "mains fusers" have collectively.

And what your doing and telling the "gullible" to do, is down right dangerous, and liable.

jburidan. Nice comment! First off, I have a whole house surge protector, secondly, I have all stuff plugged into a second surge protector. 

The question here isn't should I hardwire everything, the question is " if one hardwires components does it improve the quality of the sound over a boutique fuse??? Only two people have responded the question. 

George, while I appreciate your concern for me and others, Running to Daddy? This is less about safety and more about your refusal to even consider that the changing of fuses could possibly alter the sound. But, have Never tried any of these things. So, for the record, I wasn't seeking your opinion, nor the other nay-sayers. I was asking people who had experimented with direct wiring the fuse. 

Another troll who refuses to discuss the issue any longer...discusses the subject. Oh, and thanks a bunch for all the valuable insights, Georgie! 🤡

no fuse I will not discuss this issue any longer.

Regards,
-- Al

I'm with you Al, it's also stupidity of the highest order to bypass mains fuses, and to play around with them to see which direction sounds better is ludicrous, and then to tell the "gullible" to do it is down right dangerous.

This thread has been reported to admin, to be moved to "Misc Audio" and with an Audigon disclaimer, should someone should get hurt doing this ****, because of the stupidity of others telling them it ok to do so.

Cheers George  

roxy54

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, I knew you substituted silver wire instead of the fuse. I was just wondering how the sound changed when you did that. Bypassing the fuses is exactly what I am thinking of doing instead of using Boutique fuses. 

captaindidactic,
I wasn't saying that I rewired the amp with silver wire, I was saying that I substituted a fuse for a piece of silver wire.

I’m sure you’re mixing me up with someone else. Never said it. Why would I say It? Why would anyone say it? I suggest you eat more fish 🐟 🐠 

As for your silly law of thermodynamics comment you might as well say, The sky is blue.

I’d forgotten a conversation, months back, in which Geoff informed me, "energy is nothing." I mentioned that they’d just disproved Relativity and decided any further discussions with them, would be folly. Gotta work on my memory(my Physics is just fine)!

Energy, power, current, they all are part of the fuse vs no fuse discussion. You cannot separate them. As I said already, I am the only one present here who has experience with both the fancy fuse and no fuse cases. When you use low power components as I do, just in case no one picked up on it, battery-powered CD player, there is no need for a fuse, any fuse, there isn’t even a place to put a fuse if you wanted to. That’s the no fuse case. As opposed to the fuse bypass case which is yet another case.

A big shout out to the guys who got the Nobel Prize for Chemistry for inventing the Lithium battery last week. 🤡

No fuse sounds better until a power surge fries your gear :)

You say you won’t come back to this thread.

I didn’t say that. I said that I will no longer discuss "this issue," i.e., whether or not energy and power flow.  And I didn't say that energy and power are not scalar quantities.

Regards,
-- Al

Even though you probably won’t respond, almarg, you’re wrong. It is not something I made up. Energy and power are both scalar quantities. I must have had more physics in school than you did. It’s you who made it up. You could have at least checked Wikipedia. 🤡

You say you won’t come back to this thread. Is that a promise or a threat? These little drive by shootings of yours are not very becoming.

Geoffkait 10-13-2019
I just finished explaining, energy is a scalar, it has no direction. It doesn’t flow. Hel-loo!

Correction: You just finished **claiming** that "energy is a scalar, it has no direction. It doesn’t flow."

Also, it’s worth noting that energy = power x time. Or putting it another way, power = energy per unit time. So the power company provides both power and energy to the homes and businesses of its customers, conveying both in one direction via wires. Just as an amplifier provides power and energy to speakers, conveying both in one direction via the speaker cables (although "back-emf" generated by the speakers may be conveyed in the opposite direction via those cables).

Everything Mr. Rodman has said in his recent posts on this subject is correct. And considering that the subject of the thread is fuse vs. no fuse I will not discuss this issue any longer.

Regards,
-- Al

Nothing here folks, and my comment still stands (regardless of Kaitty's regular supply of nonsensical attempts at insult over reasoned response)...fuses are met with a mishmash of wires and traces of which no regard has been given to direction, thus utterly rendering fuse direction meaningless, and power supplies, chokes, rectifiers, and a myriad of relevant bits simply are not subject to any performance enhancement from a fuse...they're simply not in spite of bloviating purveyors of expectation bias enhancing hyperbole.

Almarg is probably thinking to himself, darn, I knew I shouldn’t have posted on this thread. 🤡

I just finished explaining, energy is a scalar, it has no direction. It doesn’t flow. Hel-loo! Current is the flow of electrical charge. Charge flows.

Note to self: try not to get into physics arguments with English majors.

If one fails to grasp the concept of energy ALWAYS flowing, from a greater to a lesser potential(ie: a generating station, to an amp’s power supply), they can’t have much of a foundation, for their purported knowledge, let alone their, "argument".

roxy54

I know it was 10 years ago, but how did the sound change after you silver wired your McIntosh?

That actually is irrelevant to the argument. Thanks anyway!

Regarding energy flow/transfer; anyone, with even an iota of scientific awareness, should be familiar with the Second Law of Thermodynamics! http://www.ftexploring.com/energy/2nd_Law.html

I'm a firm believer, in wood.   The harder, the better!

ieales
At what (BurnIn / BurnOut) is nirvana attained?

>>>>I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. 🤡

ieales, I am guessing no easy answer to how long does burn in nirvana takes. In my quest to upgrade my NAD stuff, I took all three units in and had my guy replace all the caps, wires and whatever else he could to upgrade the units. $850 in parts.  I was deeply depressed when I got it all back. All the warmth and richness was gone. It sounded horrid. I ran it 24/7 for a few weeks with all sorts of music plus the Effacious CD. Finally, it started to sound musical again... and then better than before.

Most of these tweaks, Do make a difference. But one has to enjoy the journey.

After well over 40 years of using  a McIntosh 2105 with regular fuses, and then a boutique fuse, I went all the way and replaced it with a piece of high purity silver wire. Stupid? Probably. But it's been there for 10 years with no issues. 

At what (BurnIn / BurnOut) is nirvana attained?

Elizabeth

Thanks to you in part I am experimenting with wood. I formally stacked my components and now have my 2 amps and Preamp sitting side-by-side on a nifty wife approved 2" thick walnut table. Sure looks better! Still sitting on stock feet tho, need to correct that! 

I ran the stereo all night playing the Irrational but Effacious CD in an attempt to burn in the new ceramic fuses. The music has smoothed out, but has not reached it's former glory. 

This game would be much easier to play if not for burn in.

ieales

Now, am I the only one who’s got experience with fancy fuses and no fuses at all?

Mr Kait’s fuses all blew long ago... ~<:-)

Fuses are connectors. Refreshing connectors has always paid dividends.

There is such a lack of rigor in ’fuse’ testing that it would be laughable if it were not so sad.

>>>>Why, are you volunteering? No need to reply, it’s a rhetorical question, Mr. Eels

rodman999994,063 posts10-13-2019 9:47am

"However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies."

+1

>>>>Upon further reflection 🤡 if current and voltage change direction wouldn’t the power change direction, too? Or does power have no direction? It’s a scalar quantity. So power doesn’t go in any direction. 🔛 Energy is also a scale quantity. No direction. 🔛

Now, am I the only one who’s got experience with fancy fuses and no fuses at all?

Mr Kait’s fuses all blew long ago... ~<:-)

Fuses are connectors. Refreshing connectors has always paid dividends.

There is such a lack of rigor in 'fuse' testing that it would be laughable if it were not so sad.

"However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies."

+1

almarg
Just for the record, 60 Hz AC changes polarity and consequently direction 120 times per second. During each 60 Hz cycle the waveform goes from negative to positive and also from positive to negative.

However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies.

>>>>Bingo! 🤗

@elliottbnewcombjr: Copperbrite!

The capacity of Humans for self-deception is unlimited - Mr.Spock

wolf_garcia

"as readily as witnessing deities displayed in their breakfast toast".

you made my morning. sadly, being gluten sensitive, my chances of discovery are lessened.

Let's remember to clean the fuses. Contact cleaner (what brand?), Spit Shine? What to eat or how long to fast prior to spit shine? Dry with what cloth? Circular wipe? Direction, relative to the equator! 

I'm going back to my cave now. 

Just for the record, 60 Hz AC changes polarity and consequently direction 120 times per second. During each 60 Hz cycle the waveform goes from negative to positive and also from positive to negative.

However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies.

Regards,
-- Al

ibmjunkman
OK, I am totally confused. You guys saying you use these fuses in AC circuits?

From their web site:
A: Yes, fuses are directional. Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse. If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions. One direction will sound more detailed. This is the correct way.

I thought AC changed directions 60 times a second?

>>>>>Thanks for bringing that up. Actually most audio fuses happen to be in AC circuits. It’s true current changes direction on the wire according to where the fuse is located. If the fuse is located where power comes into the CD player, preamp or amp or whatever it changes 60 times per second. But if the fuse is located in the speaker the current changes according to frequencies of the audio waveform. Thus the current at the fuse in the speaker changes 20 to 20,000 times per second - or more or less. If the fuse is in a DC circuit obviously current is unidirectional.

You can ignore the current traveling in the direction away from the speakers, I.e., toward the wall, since that direction of current flow is not (rpt not) audible. The only direction that’s audible for any wire is the one toward the speakers. It is the speakers that ultimately produce the sound you hear. So, it’s the “quality” of the current traveling toward the speakers that is the issue. That’s why fuses sound better in one direction, worse in the other direction in AC circuits and DC circuits. As Old Blue Eyes sez, that’s life.

itsjustme
Not eve(n) close. So worry about the big stuff, and dont fret the small stuff. And fuses just might save you from doing $1000s of damage.
really - its vastly smaller than you may think.

>>>>>I tend to disagree. It’s vastly bigger than you may think. Especially if one has many fuses.

Maybe we should have a thread, How Small Can Something and Still Make a Big Difference?

The Devil is in the details. - Old audiophile axiom 😈

captaindidactic
“I have just started playing my system with 16 new ceramic fuses and so far it sounded better before.”

>>>>>Hey, Capt, since all fuses are directional and all fuses require breaking in it will be somewhat of a challenge to get all 16 fuses in the correct direction. Better put on your Mr. Spock ears. 🤡

ibmjunkman
Not questioning the fuse maker who says their fuses are directional. Questioning their use in an AC circuit which is bi-directional.

>>>>Let’s try to keep sexual orientation out of this.

"eliminating errant bad electrons" LOL!