Ok.. I think I understand that no fuse is better than a cheap fuse. And a good fuse is better than a cheap fuse. But is no fuse better than the best fuse?
One person on Audiogon said that he achieved better sound by using a Blue fuse over no fuse. I guess my question is... Do these new, high dollar fuses just allow the current to flow better with solid protection or do they actually due to quantum physics or something, actually improve upon the signal by eliminating errant bad electrons and thereby actually improving the music over no fuse at all?
geo are you supposed to be funny. cause im not laughing. i only mentioned my status cause it supports my references to actual human precieved differences where there actually none. your conscience opinions are just Your opinion not traceable measurable repeatable and tangable fact. im going to go listen to some Dio. on my 50kw stereo system.
ps I currently have a Brain Plate after a crainomity and was flatlined 3 yrs ago and on regular analysis now. so pardon the typing and such. its medically caused.
All I can say is Yipes again????? notice how very few if any pro electronics or physisitst even bother to comment on this site. most if not all the sub critical aspects of electrons,holes,carriers etc will have NO yes-No intelligable effect on sound period. ive studied these things down to the electron hole pairs and quantom movement. if your amps and other circuits cant deal with correction than they are junk like a single mosfet amp. the power of psychoacoutsics are huge and contribute to all this hype and sales glitz. working on you guys. yea i did years of brain wave EEG measurement and effects on neuro triggers in the brain IE "hearing" "seeing" same goes for those musicians that think a shiney trombone sounds different than a dull one. someone should do a double blind test usinfg EEG waves and not the subjective opinion of the ear/mouth. LOL. they will find nooo change. only overall dopamine/serotonin standard distribution as per the DSM 4/5 2019. yea rant off for now.
"Oregonpapa, in all your well-meaning literature, I wonder if you have separated more audiophiles from their hard-earned than any other individual on this site, they seem to think it was worth it."
Yes, they definitely seem to think it was worth it. I hear from them all the time via PM ... and you can read their many comments here on this site.
Sharing pertinent information with other hobbyists so they can improve their systems beyond what they thought possible is a fun thing to do.
By the way, the word through the grapevine is that over 1000 SR Orange fuses were sold within three days of their announcement. I'm sure its many more by this date. That's a lot of happy campers. :-) georgehifi ...
"How many times have I seen you say this, from stock to black to blue to red to purple now orange, you must have the best sounding system in the world."
"The Best?" I have no way of knowing George, but in several ways, it is one of the best I've ever heard, and I've heard a lot of systems in my time. Oh, and to my knowledge, there was never a "Purple" fuse. Did I miss something?
"Because there’s now a million Orange fuses to get rid of at rrp $150, cost price 20cent, nice profit if you can get it."
I know you're not from around these parts, George, but around here, profit is a good thing. It allows for more R&D, which in turn creates more great products. That is a definite benefit for the end-users, wouldn't you agree?
Profit creates more jobs and better lifestyles for all concerned. That holds true for every legitimate business. A definite benefit there too George. Surely you can't disagree with that, eh George?
By the way, George, if I remember correctly, you weren't feeling very well a year or so ago. I hope all is well with you now.
I am also a music lover first with music playing at least 10 hours daily in our home! We attend many concerts and love searching for new artists we enjoy. All good.
It doth appear some shrinking violets 😲 are lurking here. Hey, that rhymes! Remember what the dormouse said, Faint heart ne’er won fair maiden. 💃 Don’t flip your gizzard. Flip your fuse! 🔜
When Dante Alighieri wrote The Divine Comedy, I couldn't find which Circle of Hell this discussion came under, so I took a gander at Purgatirio and lo! I think I found it there.
It seems that our penance is delayed and this discussion must go on for quite some time before we get back to Beatrice.
@grannyring Likely I'm more a "music lover" than "audiophile". Now, as I said, partially also because I have limited time, so actual time for me to sit down, listen and relax is only about 15-20 hours a month or so. It could be a bit different would I have 100 hrs spare time per month. Nevertheless, I'm not saying others should not do all the tweaking and tuning, changing fuses, changing cables, changing directions and so many other options, it's just that I believe that changing room acoustics is easier, even if you don't exactly know/understand why the sound is different.
@captaindidactic As I mentioned, I may change and spend a bit more time on tuning once I have more time to do such tuning. Still, I will likely not go as far as changing fuses, but will try to learn more about room acoustics, and experiment with that. Nevertheless, I do have a small collection of cables at home, build up over the last 25 years or so. I do agree that different cables may result in slightly different sound.
@rodman99999 For your info, I've just upgraded my power amps, and have ordered upgrades for my transport and DAC. It's not that I'm against upgrading, it's just that I will not be looking to endlessly change fuses, cables or other tweaks. Just a different personality I guess, I tend to be happy with what I have, I'm satisfied, and don't want to worry too much of what I possibly could have. I don't think I'm "stuck in a moment". In addition, yes, I'm absolutely happy... ;)
Of course, people are at liberty to enjoy their hobby the way they want it, if you prefer to go that path, options are unlimited, and you will never be finished. Some people are in this hobby just for the sake of this tuning, I'm fine with that. I'm not criticizing, just gave my opinion, for a good part also based on 40+ years of experience in this hobby.
To the gullible reading this thinking of spending hundreds on fuses, and if not technically competent risking your lives by going inside your amps, don’t listen to the fuse snake oil peddlers.
The only way a fuse can sound better, if it replaces old crusty one that seen too many switch on surges over time, doesn’t have to be $200 fuse, should be $2 same one but new, and the same result will happen.
C'mon George. Unless you actually KNOW for a fact those fuses cost 20c to make that is just an outlandish statement to make. One that earns you no respect at all.
oregonpapa Just as soon as I think I’ve tweaked the system to it’s maximum, something else comes along to take it to new heights.
How many times have I seen you say this, from stock to black to blue to red to purple now orange, you must have the best sounding system in the world.
jetter I wonder if you have separated more audiophiles from their hard earned than any other individual on this site
That’s a roger roger, straight into SR’s pocket at the speed of light, not only for fuses but anything else RS has, and maybe a little honey back on the side, for yours truly.
BTW: no more SR $150 "Orange fuse" thread that was just blatant s******g. You can guarantee a new trainee SR s*****r, will start one up in it’s place. Because there’s now a million Orange fuses to get rid of at rrp $150, cost price 20cent, nice profit if you can get it.
Oregonpapa, in all your well meaning literature, I wonder if you have separated more audiophiles from their hard earned than any other individual on this site, they seem to think it was worth it.
Unlike you, I am a papa of an individual in Oregon
Just as soon as I think I've tweaked the system to it's maximum, something else comes along to take it to new heights. I enjoy sharing the information on this site.
Some of us(restless souls) experiment, learn and grow, our entire lives. Others remain wherever they may be, feeling comfortable and safe in their castles of complacency. I’d call it, "stuck"(a personal opinion). But- long as they’re happy..........
I was just like you for 30 years. I bought a nice system and loved it. But, it got old, the speakers needed re-foaming and my amps and preamp needed work. The stereo sat for a few years unplayed. I fired it up again and the CD player died. Decision time. Keep or fix. I decided to fix.
While in repair, I hunted for a new CD player. I listened to many. I finally commented that I wish I could bring my system in and hear the different players on my system. He said I could! And since all my equipment was going to be in my vehicle all at the same time, I brought it in.
Long story short, my old stuff sounded just as good as a 50K system. I was very happy. I was using old RCA connectors. While I was there the owner asked me if I wanted to try changing just one set of RCA cables from my new CD player into the preamp. We changed only that one thing and the music changed Dramatically for the better. Imaging, depth, sweetness of sound. I couldn't believe it. I tried a total of 4 different RCA's and without knowing which one he was changing, I was able to after hearing all 4, tell him which one was which.
That is how I got into tweaking. That first set of RCA's was the biggest leap. This stuff does make a difference.
Tweaking and modifying plus the learning that comes with it is not for you Han_n. Some of us enjoy the process while others, like you, would not. People are different enjoying and being challenged by different things. I love DIY building and modifying as well as comparing the sonic results. What is tedious to one is relaxing and enjoyable to another.
Room acoustics are also important, but no more so than optimizing your gear and system to your own ears. They both work together...equally.
I love this quote from Michael Green taken from another thread here on Audiogon. It applies to fuses and all things audio.
“In regards to the variables and tuning, it’s nothing we should be even debating and once we get past the debating (talk) we will find ourselves in a new hobby of discovery. Discovery is the act of moving past assumptions. Discovery doesn’t have an ego to let go of that’s something we own ourselves. Something the variables have taught me is, I will always be the student. I might master a few things but I will never stop discovering more. “
Why don't you buy something which sounds right -to your ears- straight from the beginning.... After purchase, I just want to listen and enjoy, no countless experiments, so called upgrades, trying out thousands of variables.....(even IF one of the thousand changes would sound better, I would not want to spend the time to find that change, and the related headache of trying to understand why it sounds different). I have limited time, so just want to enjoy music... Believe me, the positive audible differences they possibly make will in general be much smaller than working on your room acoustics. I mean, if you really want to keep working on sound improvement, focus on getting the room acoustics right.
Anyway, I realize that the above is not the point of this thread and therefore a bit off topic... ;)
I understand your question. I’m sure we all agree that the fuse is there for safety and to protect the equipment.
But, as you ask, (for sound quality) by eliminating the fuse and hard wiring is that sound better than using a $$$ fuse? Afterall, the wiring in the fuse is like the size of a hair and that hair thin wire carries the current from our mega size power cables, it does make me wonder. Personally, It seems like it would be better, but I haven’t tried it yet, perhaps soon...
You can also ask the same question about hard wiring our equipment to the Romex in the wall or straight to the breaker box thus by-passing expensive AC plugs, outlets, wire etc. Now to me, audiophile cables, connectors eliminate stray rf, emi, etc. so they do have a sound quality purpose.
But, fuses? Its a very good and challenging question.
Back decades ago they used to make a mini breaker that inserted right into a fuse holder. It was designed to REPLACE fuses mostly in cars but same idea could work for hifi.
I had a 70 Charger that continuously blew the main fuse after driving it and the reset breaker was WAY easier than trying to figure out WHY. LOL.
And NO, it never burst into flames on me. Or left me stranded again after that " fix"
Tone controls is a different story from SQ. I just thought I’d point that out. Tone controls suggests frequency response controls only. But obviously there’s much more to SQ than just frequency response. For example, transparency, dynamic range, SNR/resolution, soundstage, etc. I think TUNING is a “crutch word.” A “cover-up word.” They use the same crutch word for cables. And footers. There is no mystery, folks. We already know why audiophile fuses are better than stock fuses. We also known cables and footers are not simply tone controls. Get real. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. ☕️
Where is Michael Green when you need him? He can define TUNING is anybody can.
I have tested building a tube preamp with these AC mains protection options.
- no fuse, but a on/off breaker - cheap fuse, no breaker - Furutech fuse, no breaker
The breaker option sounded best and really does answer your question...at least in my 6sn7 based, tube rectified, voltage regulated preamp. Thus my earlier post. Avoid the fuse folks. I was taught this from the designer of Tube Research Labs amplifiers. Sadly Paul Of TRL passed away as he was a brilliant designer as well as a kind man.
One should look at a fuse like any other tweak like footers, cables, wood blocks etc.
They are ALL going to have some effect on the music, not all will be "better"which can ONLY be defined by the actual user/ listener in their rig/ home.
Of course the non believers will still be exactly that ... Non believers.
No sense or point arguing with them.
Just the same as no sense or point arguing with a fuser either.
Just for the record, none of those things including external surge protectors will help if the missing fuse is needed to do its intended job while swapped out.
On the flip side, device events that cause a fuse to blow do not happen often normally so at least the odds are good of not causing damage. However the longer the fuse is not in play, the more chance there is of damage occurring.
So with that in mind, have at it if you must. The best anyone can do is remind people fuses are there for a reason (and its not because of how they "sound") and no manufacturer if asked would ever approve of customers replacing fuses with wire.
Ok, I am gonna try to summarize and wrap up this dangerous and provoking thread.
The original question that got bent out of shape is " Does bypassing the fuse sound better than even the best fuse, even the Orange?
The reason for the question was to determine whether the fuse is actually adding some sound quality to the system. Somehow actually enhancing the sound quality versus just being a higher quality "wire" that also has fuse protection.
The only way to test this theory would to compare/contrast hard-wired versus the best fuse. So I then asked the question had anyone done this and what were their findings?
I received two answers. One, had bypassed with silver wire and then used a "boutique" fuse and found that he liked the fuse sound better. That's one for the fuse actually improving the sound over bypass. The second answer was inconclusive. Someone silver-wired their McIntosh 10 years ago with no problems. But, didn't say whether or not it improved the sound over a Boutique fuse.
We had people chiming in with age-old opinions on both sides of the fence. Some were very concerned for my safety and the safety of others. Thank you for that!
However, we are still left with the question "Do quality fuses enhance the sound over direct wiring past the fuses"?
So, someones gotta do it! Call me Wacko but unless someone takes the chance to test one's questions where would we be in life? So, after ensuring that my whole house surge protector is functioning, my power strip surge protector also functioning, the batteries in the smoke detector changed, my fire insurance increased to lofty heights, all loved ones evacuated and only casual audiophile friends of which I don't give a whit about their safety that are each equipped with fire extinguishers, I may TEMPORARILY bypass the fuses just to hear whether or not fuses help or hinder the sound. Why Temporarily??? Well what fool would leave a fire hazard like that installed I ask you? My goodness! But. then I suppose to complete the test I will have to pony up to at least some Blue's to hear the difference.
So far, the new ceramics are still burning in and George could be right? Maybe I should have just left the stock fuses in there? Time will tell!
Unless someone has something constructive to add, I consider this thread to be closed!
I had a six-hour listening session with a fellow A'goner yesterday. The system sounded glorious with the new SR Orange fuses in the circuit. There's been a very nice improvement overall. The mid-bass has acquired a touch of warmth that is very inviting and emotionally involving. Vocals are amazing. Percussion is real. No joke.
elizabeth"I have read about tube amps bursting into flames"
Amplifiers intended for use in Music Reproduction Systems that burst unexpectedly into flames is not limited, confined, or exclusive to "tube" amplifiers perhaps the most famous, legendary, and most notable of these would be the "Flame Linear" (Phase Linear) and "SureFire" (Sunfire) amplifiers that are the exclusive design, manufacture, and creation of the legendary Bob Carver!
A reason why it may be worthwhile to point out and/or emphasize the risks of bypassing a fuse is that some people, including some experienced audiophiles, simply don't have knowledge of what the purpose of an AC mains fuse is. Which is not to say they are stupid; it is just to say that their backgrounds are such that they haven't gained that knowledge.
As evidence of that I recently had occasion to post the following statement in the thread entitled "Something For The Fuse Guys":
Almarg 9-26-2019
I just want to state a point of information: Posts that have been made by at least three different members appear to imply that the purpose of an AC mains fuse in a component is to provide protection against surges in the incoming AC. While it is possible that an AC mains fuse might do that under some circumstances, that is not its intended purpose. Its intended purpose is to blow if a fault within the component causes it to draw excessive AC current. Thereby preventing **additional** damage to the component that may otherwise occur, as well as preventing the possibility of the component overheating or even bursting into flames as a result of the excessive current being drawn.
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