Think ill just go with a lumin
Starting out anew. reading all of the post into the wee evening hours, and getting more and more confused, I think I may just get a Lumin DAC/streamer combo. D2 or T2 i suppose, maybe an S1 if i can find one a little cheaper and I scrimp and save a little more.
My situation is rebuilding from scratch, so waiting for pieces to come together. Going with a Mac MA 352, and a pair of devore o96 speakers. Smallish room, just plan on streaming and putting a turntable onto the system, but nothing else. Figure i will just subscribe to tidal or Qbouz for the convenience, although anything appl conected is a plus. Will have a hard wire connection and decent wifi. I suppose i am most worried about how technology may change, and whether I should go R2R, but that rabbit hole started to make my head hurt.
If anyone has some opinions, either it wont work or seems like a solid approach, views are much appreciated.
On another note since we are talking about Lumin streamers. What is the general consensus from other Lumin owners regarding the preferred digital output to their EXTERNAL DAC? I have a U1 mini with an upgraded LPS feeding my Yggdrasil via AES/EBU cable which is definitely superior to the DAC’s USB input. Keep in mind the DAC’s USB is from 2 previous generations. Its the USB gen 3 that it came with when I purchased it and have not bothered with any Usb board upgrades. How ever there have been 2 USB board upgrades now which are said to have considerable better sound quality, mainly the last one (unison). I figure Lumin must have spent considerable effort into making the USB output of high quality. Should I consider the USB board upgrade on my DAC to utilize Lumin’s USB output? What do other Lumin users recommend or prefer out of personal experience regarding AES/EBU or USB? Thanks in advance |
All things being equal (budget limits, tech' advancements, desired SQ level), I'd never employ a combo DAC/streamer - never. I faced the same decisions as you; and after decades in HiFi and equipment swapping, I, too, pretty much started over once I added digital into the system equation. I am so glad I went with a separate DAC and streamer. My DAC is here to stay for a while...a long while; but the streamer will likely change due to rapid tech advances in price, SQ, and software/OS/APP stability and options. It is easy these days to buy a super high end DAC for a relatively modest price - in fact so good that many would see no need to move up. With streamers, it's a little different. |
Sadly the U1 Mini is no more, same old story, can't get the parts. To clarify, the D2 has both a digital and analog output that can be selected in the app, specs below per the distributor: DEDICATED DIGITAL OUTPUT STAGE TO AN EXTERNAL DAC: Hope this helps!
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I bought a Lumin D1 here on AG from someone upgrading to a T2, and he confirmed the upgrade was indeed worth it, as others have said. I plan on going that route shortly as the Lumin has been reliable and enjoyable to listen to. I work for software company and know a bit about UI/UX and the Lumin software is very dated and not very logical. But it's serviceable and the hardware is so good, I believe users just put up with it. |
Hello, You may not know about the new Lumin P1 all in one preamp/ streamer/ DAC. It has been said that it is almost as good as the X1 in sound when streaming due to the ESS pro chip. It is not inexpensive but at 10k it is cheaper than the Lumin X1 and you get a great preamp to go with it all in one really nice looking chassis. It is so good some are wondering if this will hurt X1 sales. I am not sure where you are located but this dealer in the Chicagoland area might have the first one to demo. |
As to what you’ll like or what sounds better, those are questions only you can answer. Do you prefer a more detailed (some call it clinical) sound or a smoother (some call it warmer) sound? I suggest listening to multiple DACs as there are variations among delta-sigma and R2R DACs and within those two categories. As to LUMIN, I auditioned both the D2 and T2 at a dealer. The T2 to me was audibly more resolving and clearer. I took the T2 home to audition, but since the T2 will also work as a streamer, I compared the T2 DAC output to my current DAC, an Ayre Acoustics QB-9DSD. I found the Ayre DAC more neutral, equally if not more resolving, but less clinical sounding (said another way, it had less of what I perceived to be an edginess in the higher frequencies). The result was I purchased the LUMIN U1 mini, with which I am very pleased, and upgraded my DAC to a QB-9 Twenty when Ayre came out with that major upgrade. LUMIN makes an excellent product, and using an Ethernet connection from my music server to an Ethernet switch, through the LUMIN via Ethernet, then to my USB DAC was far superior to connecting the server to the DAC directly via USB. I use Roon, but find LUMIN’s app a reasonable alternative providing fewer features but less complexity. And their app sounds as good as Roon if not a slight bit better in clarity. I can’t speak to other products, but encourage you to audition several, preferably at home with your other gear. My dealer’s showroom has extensive acoustical treatments which made their listening rooms sound almost dead to me. Very unnatural, not like a room in your house or a concert venue or club, more like a recording studio. Happy listening. |
I have the Mac 352 Integrated with Lumin T2. Set it up a few months ago. Quite happy with it even pushing some old PSB towers (they will be upgraded in the near future). I imagine with your Devore's the sound will be great. Very happy with the T2. No regrets at all. I stream mostly Qobuz through Roon although I do use the Lumin App occasionally. I do find the app a little challenging to use so mostly stick to Roon. Good luck. |
I purchased a Lumin D2 about 2 years ago and liked Lumin so much that I upgraded to the Lumin T2 last month. I highly recommend the T2 as a starting point based on several factors: Improved soundstage and musicality over the D2, fantastic app that allows easy access to Tidal and Qobuz, knowledgeable support direct from the US importer/distributor (in case your dealer gets stumped). I use the Lumin daily and couldn't be happier with the versatility offered. Good Luck! |
I own the LUMIN T2 and am very pleased with the sound and easy to navigate app on my IPad. This was a noticeable improvement from my previous setup which was a Benchmark DAC3 and Bluenode 2. I love the convenience of streaming so much that I rarely use either the turntable or CD player. So you may consider skipping the turntable and spending the savings on a higher end DAC/streamer. |
@skiforbagels I would just get the KRELL K-300i integrated. Plug in your wired Ethernet cable and fire up ROON on you iPhone to stream from Tidal and Qubuz. I do that in my bedroom. The sound is incredible. Just read up the many reviews on this unit. I just bought a separate KRELL 175 XD amp because I liked the amp section of the K-300i so much. https://www.krellhifi.com/products/k-300i-integrated-stereo-amplifier/ Chances are the KRELL will sound just as good or much better than the MAC you are considering. You cannot get any simpler than this. In my setup I actually have 2 streaming inputs. The built-in KRELL Network streaming (RJ45 Ethernet) and a external Fibre optical streaming to an external DAC. The external streaming was only added because I had an extra DAC and streamer that was not needed in another system. Prior to that change, I was happy with the single box solution built-in KRELL streaming. There are other integrated amps with similar features as the KRELL. BTW - I think Fibre optic streaming is where you get the best results. However, there is much to be said for a single box, that sounds incredible, and is not complicated to use. My Fibre streaming setup is more complicated and I only recommend that to people that are comfortable dealing with software and home computer network issues. |
It’s a great choice, from many angles. And when after a few months or a year you start to wonder if there is something better sounding, there may be but it’s not worth it. The T2 is awesome for a ‘modest’ system. I’ve had about 10 DACs/streamers since I had the T2, and I could easily go back to it. The big question is the preamp and you mentioned a turntable - a bit more expensive but you might want to look at something like the Mytek Manhattan, which can do those too ands sounds good. And headphones…. But even after a few years on the market I think the Lumin is still at the front of the pack for quality, features, reliability, etc., and at the price. |
Ok. On reading professional reviews. This confused me early on, a long time ago. But reviews should say, “for the money”. So, if you see an A rated $1.5 K component and a $10K component grouped in the same category.. you can be sure the $10K will blow away the cheaper one. For the money is always implied. I have heard and owned many in the same categories.
As far as choices. Only streaming and vinyl is appropriate in 2021. Do Qubuz… most audiophiles choose for best sound quality and largest selection of hi Rez streaming. As far as components. You have to put something together to start with. Get yourself a reference. Then you can read about the components you have and see if you want to upgrade and how.
Nothing wrong with starting with an integrated… you can always upgrade the DAC and use as a streamer… until you can upgrade the streamer. Make sure you like the MAC sound, it is very well liked… but to me is best for rock music only. Provided you like the sound, good choice. If you are unsure then go listen to an all MAC system somewhere, see what you think. I personally love the sound of Audio Reserach, but that is why there are different brands. Overall, good approach. Did I see the speakers? These will be really important choices in a small room. |
Can’t say that I’m less confused, but at least I know a lot more about the components. I really am not married to specific audio sources. My cds are not sacd quality so don’t care about them that much. Apple Music has been a go to, but adding a qobuz or tidal at $20/ month is not an issue. Really a clean slate, with streaming from a good monthly service provider and phono my end goal. This conversation has made separate components more interesting, if anything at lower $$s, mistakes are less costly. thanks again all. |
I have had the U-1 mini, D2, A1 and X1 from Lumin all purchased from Dave Lalin aka AudioTroy in New Jersey and I live in Arizona. Lumin is a wonderful DAC / Streamer and the APp is super easy to use. I would highly recommend Lumin and AudioTroy. My advice is that each step I took the sound just got better. Reach as far as you can. |
I feel your pain weeding through all this, but I don’t think doing the combo thing is a good idea longer term as both streamer and DAC technologies evolve at the pace they are. I’d suggest going with a good streamer like the Pro-Ject Streambox S2 Ultra and a nice DAC such as the Musician Pegasus R2R DAC (just as one option) and I think you’ll be very happy for $2k all in with no more headaches necessary. I own the Pegasus and consider it to be an upgrade from the more common delta-sigma DACs in terms of flow and musicality with no lack of detail or dynamics. Here’s a review I think is pretty spot on FYI. https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/musician-audio-pegasus-r2r-dac-review/ Hope this helps, and best of luck. |
I use my T2 with an integrated amp. The T2 does give you the ability to run direct into an amplifier. The dac in the unit is very good. LUMIN website instructions on the device set up are clear and very easy to use. I have my LUMIN volume control set to 100% so I can use the remote volume control for my integrated |
I would also recommend going with the T2 over the D2 if it is within your budget. There is a very large improvement in sound quality, unless the specific character of the D2 is more to your personal liking. Lumin has an outstanding software stack and wide range of compatibility which makes it easier and more pleasing to use than many other choices. Plus they their build and sound quality is top-notch, and they have a high level of customer support and regular firmware updates to improve things. Most R2R DACs tend to lean towards a particular flavor of sound, so unless you've heard one yourself and decided you liked it, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. |
I’ve not heard of them having a preamp but they do have a digital volume control called leedh that you can enable in the lumin app. |
I have the D2, It links you in to the internal DAC and if you use Tidal that’s fine but you get no flexibility , also for Tidal you don’t get Tidal Connect on the D2. I’m changing mine out and have replaced it with an Ifi Stream with USB out to a Topping D70S MQA DAC, seems more musical to me with greater detail. I would go streamer and separate DAC for flexibility unless you want a single box solution. |
