I concur - prof
to my ears, the CS 2.4 through CS 3.7 loudspeaker models have incredible coherency. After I overcame the overtly rich timbre of these speakers, I noticed how remarkable the coherent factor, top to bottom.
I consider myself very fortunate to have had such auditioning sessions prior to any purchase.
Happy Listening!
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Good to see you as always - tomthiel
Thank You for the PowerPoint / CS 2.4SE updates. I know that you guys have been researching and working hard on this tasker. Having a little fun along the way helps as well. No doubt that you and your team are going to become a success with this endeavor.
Happy Listening!
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Prof, as a technical note, that wavy driver behaves better than any of the previous cone drivers as well as supports the tweeter wave-form launch very nicely. Therefore the direct series crossover path is simpler than any previous Thiel driver. Jim had always corrected for slope anomalies in all the drivers, which puts additional components in the signal path. In the x.7 models, fewer components are required because the fundamental driver performance is so good. Part of what you hear is the thrill of nothingness.
I am glad to hear your enthusiasm.
My present work on prior models is to refine the required passive components to minimize their contribution to the signal. Most of the parts are on-hand for my PowerPoint experiments which will also inform beetlemania's CS2.4SE upgrade. We can't brag about vaporware, but I am pretty excited about the potential improvements.
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The other thing about the coax driver design in both the 3.7 and the 2.7 is the coherency achieved! Try as I might I just can not "hear out" any tweeter sound from the midrange. It just sounds perfectly meshed together. Even the most challenging material - sibilance on female singers, or listening to a violin play up and down it's highest registers - perfect coherence. No mechanical tell-tale signs at all, just a voice, or instrument playing, without any cues the sound is passing between different drivers.
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jafant,
I have the MFSL gold CD for SNF and, yeah, it was a GREAT CD version.
I haven't really investigated the best pressings for SNF in vinyl - picked this one up at a record show and was told by someone in the know it's the most recent release.
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Nice musical selections - prof
The MFSL gold cd set for SNF soundtrack are reference discs. Not sure if MoFi released a LP version?
Happy Listening!
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This thread reminds me of talking about your kids to your spouse.
You can’t really go on about how wonderful your kids are to anyone else. It would make them puke. But your spouse is someone who shares your feelings for your kids, so you can tell them every wonderful thing your kid did today.
And on that note, I can blab to my fellow Thiel owners: Spinning the Saturday Night Fever LP on the 2.7s now. Absolute heaven. Quick, tight, impactful kick drum, present dense snare drums, voices natural, every element delineated yet richly so, not at all clinical (as I’ve recently heard from some other speakers). I’m not just getting audiophile goodies; I’m getting the fun and verve of spinning records when I was young.
Played a new copy of John Coltrane’s Blue Train. Unbelievable. Sax, trumpet, so clear and present with their differing tonality - organic, not electronic and silvery. Drums with clarity and snap "right there" in the room. The stand up bass maintained tautness even from well outside my listening room down the hall.
Yeah, I can let go of the 3.7s without much regret.
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Much Thanks! Al and prof I can remember never having any issues w/ the "old" Audiogon. This newer or 2.0 platform is issue-laden to be sure. Happy Listening! |
Thanks Al.
I’ll try that.
In fact I just did.
And I think it works.
And now that I think about it, I rembemer this happening before and having to add this double-space. I just can’t remember how it ever got fixed.
Ah well....
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... anyone know a solution for when formatting stops working on this
forum? I can see everyone else's formatting is working, but now all my
spacing and paragraphing disappears when I post.
... I don't use a PC. Firefox or Chrome on a mac. Neither are formatting properly. Weird.
I use Firefox on Windows 10, and I've noticed the same thing ever since the update of Firefox to version 60. I have no idea why that is occurring. To get paragraph spacing to come out properly what I've been doing is to initially put a second space between paragraphs, then clicking the Preview button to see what that produces, and then usually for just some of the paragraphs eliminating the extra space based on what I see in the preview. Followed by an additional preview to verify that everything looks right. Best regards, -- Al |
Thanks jafant. I don't use a PC. Firefox or Chrome on a mac. Neither are formatting properly. Weird.
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prof,
I use a PC and internet explorer. Are you using an Apple product or Google Chrome? These products are tempermental at times.
Happy Listening! |
Thanks ronkent!
Btw, anyone know a solution for when formatting stops working on this forum? I can see everyone else's formatting is working, but now all my spacing and paragraphing disappears when I post.
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Much Thanks! for the update - tomthiel Simmering is very good, as I know, that there are CS 1.6 owners, that could benefit from an upgrade. Keep up the excellent work and research.
Happy Listening! |
hi Prof. thank you so much. I sold my 2.7's about 10 days ago and know they have a good home. i never had a lot of time to really compare as the 3's were not good when i got them so i let them play all the time. they finally surpassed the 2's but not by much and i could have lived happily with either. i think because i listen to classical about 70% of the time, the 3's were the better choice. BTW: you should be writing gear reviews as you are very articulate and really convey a real sense of what you are hearing.thanks again.
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Sorry for the ugly formatting above.
I"m having trouble on this site: I format a reply just fine, but once posted the formatting is all screwed up. I don't know why - if it's a browser thing, a site problem, or what. |
ronkent,
I still think the 3.7 is the "better" speaker. It's more open, slightly more detailed, more evenly controlled top to bottom, more neutral, casts the bigger more impressive images and soundstage, and disappears better.
That sounds like a slam dunk for the 3.7, but subjective taste enters the equation and that's where the 2.7s catch up quite a bit for me.
I find the sound of the 2.7s a bit more tonally rich and dense, with even more precise reach-out-and-touch-it palpability. And a punchier mid-bass on down that really drives music even more than the 3.7s which can sound more reserved. For instance, that tune I may have just heard on the radio may or may not satisfy on the 3.7s, but it's likely to have the "fun factor" and drive on the 2.7s.
And as I've said, the 2.7s seem a bit more dynamically alive - even the way a trumpet player or saxophonist will run up and down a scale, there is a bit more lively micro-dynamics of each note that give the 2.7 presentation a bit more life-force-like presentation.
Plus, the 2.7s image huge as well, so it's a very life-like presentation even given their more modest size.
So it's a question of taste, really, for me. Sometimes when I hear the way the 2.7 doesn't image as well to the sides as the 3.7s - instruments panned hard right or left tend to sound more coming out of the speakers than floating behind them like the 3.7s - I'll pine a bit for the 3.7s. Other times when I hear the utterly engaging density and punch of, say, drums on the Police record on the 2.7s, I feel like I couldn't live without that.
From my experiments with a subwoofer so far, I get more of the speakers disappearing, even for hard right/left panned instruments, on the 2.7s once the subwoofer is on. So I think I won't really have anything to pine for if I can successfully integrate the subs. That is, so long a I can maintain the tone of the 2.7s that I like so much. I'll finally have time within the next couple of weeks to give my JL Audio subs and crossover a real go.
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hi Prof, after all is said and done, and room size or traffic not being a consideration, do you think the 2.7's out perform the 3.7's
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Oh man, I’ve been spinning various records on my system and the Thiel 2.7s have just been killing it!
I’ve been receiving old Brazilian jazz/funk records and they sound gloriously huge and rich and punchy on the 2.7s.
Spinning the Police record Reggatta De Blanc - the 2.7s just reproduce this with such verve and energy. Having had the CS6’s long ago and then many speakers in between, one of the things I always missed was the Thiel’s way with bass - so focused, punchy and dense, vs the more bloomy quality of many other speakers. That’s what the 2.7s give me as well. Bass and kick drums have such a satisfying solidity and impact and density that just drives the music.
I can never see myself getting rid of these speakers. (Even if I buy more speakers).
Gotta sell my Thiel 3.7s though, within the next couple weeks! (I have some time off work to get such things done).
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For the record, the CS1.6 is on my upgrade list, as it has sophisticated, all-Thiel drivers and represents the pinnacle of the 1-series (pre-coincident driver) and there were thousands of pairs produced. There has been no expressed interest in the 1.6 upgrade, nor do I have a pair. So it is on the back burner, but simmering nonetheless.
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Much Thanks! corvette01 I am sad to see them go away from you. On the flipside, a new home is in order. Are you going away from from Stereo/2-channel?
A pair of 1.6 or 1.7 would be a nice downsize. Perhaps someday I can build a youtube channel in partnership w/ some of you other fans. Good Luck in the sale. Happy Listening! |
Jafant,
Yes,I posted my speakers for sale!As my daughter approaches college age,I’m looking to downsize somewhat.I may use my 1.6 in the basement?Im hoping to find the right person for them!They definitely are going to be different then what every body else has!I am original owner,have everything they came with! Wish me luck!
p.s. I’m still looking for a Jafant YouTube channel!All Things Thiel! |
Check out U.S. Audiomart for a sweet pair of CS 3.7 Les Paul Edition loudspeakers. Hope these guys find a new home. Happy Listening! |
Does anyone know where I can pick up an extra aluminum grilles for a pair of Thiel PowerPlane 1.2s? Do you guys think Rob would have some? I called but he’s out until Monday. |
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Good to see you - dinopau Much Thanks! for the update. Hopefully your tech in Italy, as well as, Mr. Gillum can get your speakers back on the EQ track. Continue to keep us posted on this development. Happy Listening! |
Oblgny,
THANK YOU, I received the Thiel CS3.5 bass eq and yet not tested as it goes 110V versus 220V in Italy. I had a tech to check it, I would rather not like to use it with a noisy transformer.
Again thank you for giving it for free.
Going to the one I sent to Mr Gillum, well, still not yet received it back, I do not know if he kept trying to fix or what. If someone gets some info on this I would appreciate.
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My pleasure - ronkenthope the info has been helpful to you. Keep me posted on the discs that you decide to purchase, add to your collection.Happy Listening!
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Yes, that is a nice copy- ronkent.as you can see, the prices vary depending upon condition. Look for the original 1990 2-cd set. Mercury/Anthem Records label for America and other imports.'Happy Listening!
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Nice list - thielrulesbig Doors fan here as well. L.A. Woman was the curtain call for the band and a killer album. Happy Listening!
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Thank You - ronkentlooks like the FM disc is an import, I find most import CD(s), do sound excellent indeed. A fave RUSH album? No, I like all of the 70's up to the mid 80's. If you do not own "Chronicles "2-CD set, this is an excellent place to start, unless, you want those individual titles.
Happy Listening!
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Here are some of my current favorites:
Paul Simon-stranger to stranger
Doors- l.a.woman
Johnny Cash - American recordings
Katoh,Stagg- masters of shakuhachi
Arne Domnerus- Antiphone blues
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here is the report from the man who got my 2.7's. his system will need a lot of work but at least he now has speakers to let him hear the changes being made. Good afternoon.
I got them unpacked and setup late yesterday afternoon.
Listened for about an hour or so to the same tracks plus some others. The
one difference I am hearing is more air, more open in the mids and upper
registers. But the biggest difference is in the bottom end. It is
much more solid, with better depth and better control (I made no changes to the
sub, still crossed over at 50hz). I told you how much I didn't like the
bass before on the live "Hotel California', too much, too boomy with the
1.6's. The 2.7's sound very good on that track, they have great presence
and great control of that bottom end. No longer bothersome. Similar
to how they sounded in your room.
My wife doesn't have a critical ear, her only comment was that
they are bigger, but not as a complaint, just a comment. ;-)
I think I will start looking at amplifiers and subs for my next
upgrades in the next year or so. Which model(s) of REL would you
recommend based on my room size 14x20x8?
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2nd Note - ronkent
seek out the original RUSH discs on the Mercury "Atomic" label.Additionally, most fans like the Mobile Fidelity (MOFI) Gold CDs.I cannot speak for the remasters, other to report, that this catalog has been remastered several times over. There are even a few titles on SHM-CD imports.
Keep me posted as you find the perfect set for your ears.Happy Listening!
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Nice list - ronkentI concur about "Tango in the Night" being an excellent CD. I will have to check out the remaster, as I own, the original 80's CD. What year is the remaster?
Happy Listening!
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Good to see you - jonandfamilynice list and yes, it was a tough decision to come up with (5) albums.Happy Listening!
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thanks Jon. i am familiar with a lot of that but not Martin Sexton and the Jennys. most of my cds are really good sounding as i give them away if they are crappy, even if i like the music. really like Deep Purple but their Burn cd was so badly done. same with almost all the Rush stuff. cannot listen to it.
i am going to cheat and add my new reference cd and that is Tango in the Night by Fleetwood Mac. make sure to get the remastered version. wowie zowie.
Kim Richey is great and have a number of her cds. if you like her check out Patty Larkin who has a number of really great cds.
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Very tough to narrow down. On my Thiel CS3.6/tubes home system I prefer to listen to albums that combine artists that I like to see live but add the magic of good studio engineering. With Tidal, it sure is easy to check out some of the previous recommendations. Eagles- Long Road Out Of Eden (check out cut 9 "Fast Company") Shelby Lynne- I Am Shelby Lynne (check out cut 3 "Life is Bad") Martin Sexton- The American (check out cut 7 "Where It Begins") The Wailin' Jennys- 40 Days (check out cover song cut 7 "Old Man") Robert Plant, Alison Krauss- Raising Sand (Check out cut 2 "Killing the Blues") Here is the link to the Tidal playlist: https://tidal.com/playlist/fa778f01-dbaa-487e-98c9-958b412bf346Thumbs up on the Kim Richey album. I have seen her live several times and love the Rise album. |
hi Guys, thanks for playing. this is tough as i could have easily listed 50. Half my collection is classical but i am going to focus on pop and rock since i play it more often when trying out new stuff. Great list Arvin as i like all those, but mine are on silver discs as my trusty 37 year old Oracle/SME/Clearaudio does not get a lot of use. Jafant: which recording of DOFP as i never heard one sound great though i have always loved that album?
1. James McMurtry-too long in the wasteland. great songs and great recording. the last cut is a total hoot and a real good test of a system's ability to place lots of vocals in space.
2. Kim Ritchey-Rise. she is such a great but quiet artist.
3. Yello-One Second: totally fun. the first cut alone makes it worth having.
4. Mark Knopfler-Sailing to Philadelphia. his duet with James Taylor is so great.
5. Speaking of JT. Hourglass (preferably in SACD if you can find it). cut 4 will bring down the pictures on the wall if you can reproduce what is going on there.
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Nice list -Arvinkeep me posted on any Audio shops that you visit there in Denver and surrounding areas. Happy Listening!
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To add to the topic idea proposed by ronkent, in no particular order:
- "Brothers In Arms" Dire Straits (Mobile Fidelity, 180g, 45 rpm)
- "The Trinity Session" Cowboy Junkies (Analogue Productions, 200g, 33 rpm)
- "The Joshua Tree" U2 (Quality Record Pressings,180g, 33 rpm)
- "Time Out" Dave Brubeck Quartet (Analogue Productions, 200g, 45 rpm)
- "Blade Runner Soundtrack" Vangelis (Audio Fidelity, 180g, red vinyl)
These albums are what I use most when critical listening is needed, but I can get away by using two more than anything else. First, I use "Brothers In Arms" as my rock reference: "Money for Nothing" is an especially great track because of that explosive drum opening & Knopfler's searing guitar solo. The whole album is simply tremendous sounding, both musically & in an engineering sense.
"The Trinity Session" by the Cowboy Junkies is the second one. The entire album was recorded at Toronto's Church of the Holy Trinity using a single microphone, so the feeling you get is very intimate & raw...you can hear every little breath, fingering on fret boards, foot taps, etc. The recording is so revealing. But, most of all, it's Margo Timmins' haunting vocals that make this a reference album. If the female voice is the most difficult instrument to record & reproduce well, this album will show you what your system's capable of. I love this record...
Looking forward to what others have to share!
Arvin
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Excellent idea, 5 favorite albums - ronkenthere are mine;Jamie Cullum - Twentysomething (2004)The Beatles - Sgt Pepper (1967)
The Moody Blues - Days Of Future Passed (1967)
The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds (1966)
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (1959)
this will get the discs spinning anyway.Happy Listening!
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all i can say is that my 2.7's, and now 3.7's, are very happy with the PS Audio BHK stereo amp. wish i could get the mono blocks but not in the budget.
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Dn, sounds like a wonderful setup. I don't know those amps, but can offer some general thoughts. This group might offer opinions of the Lyngdorf. Read between the lines, it might be class D and/or digital amplification, which you would have to sonically evaluate yourself: Get return privileges. It doubles from 200wpc@8 to 400wpc@4. FIND OUT how it behaves into 2 ohms. If at least 600wpc into 2 ohms, it will not distort under a Thiel load.
The Stellar M700 reads well too. Same suggestion regarding 2 ohm performance of at least triple the 8 ohm performance is required.
Regarding the PowerPoints: your dealer might help you through the power requirement equation. Your room and listening levels matter a lot. However, don't underestimate the PP and MCS. I am using PPs for my near-field and mastering monitors, and they are my first XO upgrade project. They and the MCS are in the same hi-end league as the floorstanders. If in doubt, and if you can, lavish amplification on them.
This is a long-shot including some hearsay. Jim began working with a very talented circuit designer at Vifa/Denmark in the mid 80s on what became the SmartSub amps. I have heard that he is or has worked with Lyngdorf. If true, that's a very good indication of excellence. They look excellent anyhow! Sorry that I've never heard them.
I love PS audio, but have not heard those amps either.
I notice that you use the plural for the SS2s. Congratulations. I know from experience that there is enough location information in their signal to warrant careful positioning. Try putting them near the primary speakers and pay attention to arrival times. Avoid putting them out of sight or in a corner as is often done. Even though bass waves are long and therefore near omnidirectional, their leading edge transient component is intact and important. Everything matters.
Keep us posted.
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Hi All, Tom very interesting project sound like your making serious headway. I need some input, All my speakers are now at the house and getting ready to purchase Electronics, Tom I found some amps that double into 4 ohms. I have a deposit down on a Lyngdorf MP-50 for all Thiel HT/2ch and want to see what you all thought of the PS Audio Steller 700 to run cs 2.7 mains, MCS1 center cs 1.7 rears and 4 power point 1.2's for atmos? Do you think there smaller s300 is good enough for power points? or just go all the same? OR im way off and there no good? also running two SS2 subs in that room. 2nd situation is the room I have 3.7's in I am considering Lyngdorfs TDAI 3400 Will the 400 wpc in 4 ohm be enough? Rep is telling me because it so clean it will be, also running two SS2 there so that might lower some of there hunger? Want to pull trigger today, What do you all think? The bass integration, Room Perfect and sound of preamp sold me,,,, just want to know what the group thought of amps? Thank you Dn |
thanks Arvin and Jafant. he is so excited but he will need to update the rest of the gear as what he currently is using will not show off the 2.7's to anything like they can be. he knows this and is looking forward to his audio journey. I have told him about this thread. the 3.7's are still breaking in but boy do they sound great. I think it would be fun for the readers on this thread to each list five of their most favorite albums when it comes to both great music and great sound quality. I will work on mine
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Good to read that your speakers found a new home- ronkent. Maybe the gentleman from OH will join us here and talk about his Audio journey. My interest is certainly peaked owning both CS 1.6 and CS 2.7 sets of loudspeakers. I know that you will continue to enjoy the CS 3.7 speakers. Happy Listening! |
