Thiel Owners

Much Thanks- All

Like you guys, I am simply a fan of the brand and music lover.
I am still leaning towards an Integrated amp with AYRE at the pole position. I am attempting to find an audition w/ Transparent Gen5 cabling as soon as possible.

Happy Listening!

Jafant,

Concur that this thread is a great resource for the Thiel community.

Happy Anniversary!

Jafant this is a great thread! Glad you started it!! So happy Tom Thiel is actively involved and posting!! I’m going to post a follow up to my cs7s I bought in early November after having 3.6s that I bought new in dec of 92 I haven’t changed any equipment or cables the cs 7s are better to my ears than the 3.6s in every way (And I’m a big 3.6 fan!!) the bass is deeper  and more realistic, the mids and highs are very detailed the imaging is superb.This is with a cheap pioneer CD player through a proceed avp1 dac I can’t imagine what they will sound like when I get better equipment.The one thing I did notice is my bryston 4 nrb although sounds good and plays at a decent volume level isn’t able to make them play as loud as it did when I had my 3.6s you definitely need a big amp! Anyone contemplating the cs 7s don’t hesitate getting a pair, especially at the prices they are going for! David 

Hello all...it’s been a while since I last posted, but I have finally caught up with the 9 (!) pages of forum posts since I last visited. 
Kudos to JAfant for starting such a wonderfully informative, collaborative & civil discussion on our amazing speakers...4 years strong!

My system remains unchanged: ARC LS-7 line stage, PH 3 phono pre amp & D-240 MKII ss amp. Main source these days is a Blue Sound Vault 2 with Tidal streaming. 
I continue to look forward to going to mono block amplification in effort to drive my CS 3.5s with greater authority & control. To that end, while we have many thoughts & feedback on tubes & solid state, I find myself wondering about the possibility of Class-D digital amplification. Anyone here have any thoughts on the usual suspect audiophile models from Bel Canto, Theta Digital, Wadia, etc? I had a chance to try ARC’s 450M Class-D amps, but they were bought before I could schedule a listen. 
Thanks for the knowledge & experience you’ve all shared here...it’s truly an exceptional forum!  And, like so many others here, I really look forward to Tom Thiel’s & other’s efforts to hot rodding/extending our Thiels for the foreseeable future.

Happy 2020!

Arvin C

Indeed, this has been a fantastic thread. Thanks for kicking it off, @jafant

We are very fortunate to have Tom Thiel participating. When I bought my 2.4SEs, I had an inkling to upgrade the crossovers. But I had nowhere near in mind to take it as far as Tom coached me. I would have been nibbling around the edges and not making near the difference compared to the informed decisions from Tom's mind.

I remain *super* happy with my upgrade and haven't budged from my position that these are my last speakers. In fact, with my DAC upgraded I doubt I'll make any further changes to my system other than to try the baffle treatments Tom is experimenting with. 

Rosami - your detailed comparison of the 2.4 vs 3.6 reads like the design brief for the two products.

The Renaissance Project work has illuminated ways to make qualitative improvements for all Thiel models. I especially thank members of this forum for raising questions and perspectives that I, nor probably Jim, had considered. Remember the Vandersteen baffleless question? I responded with the company line of "one baffle, like one instrument". Then I scratched my head and went to work finding holes in my incomplete thinking. All in, I am addressing forms of distortion that contribute to that "upper frequency harsh glare" which I attribute to the speaker in some degree. Most of you have ameliorated it with careful and expensive system engineering. Thiel audio also used that particular equipment and sources that made it sound good. I believe we'll find ways to allow Thiel speakers to shine with most equipment and sources rather than a small subset as is presently necessary. 

I also thank those of you who are running parallel experiments and sharing outcomes with me. Even though progress is slow, progress is being made.

Hello all - I join in thanking JAFant for running this forum. I doubt that I would have taken up the challenge of trying to stabilize the future for Thiel owners without this forum. It's been a wonderful undertaking and I make some progress nearly every day.

@jafant,  Wow, 4 years! Did you ever get amplification for those Thiel’s?

jafant,

Thanks to you for continuing to nurture this thread and to help maintain the positive, supportive attitude that makes this the best thread on Audiogon! 

All

Today marks this thread's 4th Anniversary here on Audiogon. Since inception, we are acquiring and attracting new contributors and members of the Panel. I continue to become impressed with each passing year as Thiel Audio is finding its audience via the secondary market. Support continues to fortify and strengthen from several avenues including other Audio -based forums. The word is out indeed. 
Thank You-  for everyone's Dedication and Passion towards the betterment of our Hobby.

Happy Listening!

mr_bill

Good to see you again.  Rosami offers an excellent summation of the CS 2.4 model.  Keep me posted on your purchase decision.

Happy Listening!

mr_bill
While this is only my personal opinion-listening in my room with my gear-it's obvious that the 3.6s and 2.4s have many of the same positive attributes-of which we're all aware. 
I think the 2.4s are somewhat higher resolution speakers than the 3.6s; they have the ability to uncover somewhat greater detail in recordings and perhaps (i'm not sure of this) slightly better imaging and space cues. The larger 3.6s are more at ease with dynamic material and have a more extended bottom end. The mid-bass is somewhat "slower" than the 2.4's (obvious on "fast" electronics such as my Naim system) and improving this area would be one of my main "wants." Also, the 3.6s seem to have an upper-mid glare, and this has been made more evident after I had my amp updated. But overall, in my room, the greater dynamic ease, separate midrange driver, and more extended bottom-end of the 3.6s were the main reasons i decided to keep those speakers. I'm hoping that-with Tom T.'s hot-rodding, there may be potential for greater improvement compared to the 2.4s. It was a tough decision though because the 2.4s do just about everything right. 

@rosami 
Thank you for your post.
Could you comment on the difference between the 2.4 and 3.6 and why you are sticking with the 3.6 over the 2.4?  I’d love to hear that as I’m considering those two models. Thanks!

rosami

Good to see you again. I hope your CS 2.4 speakers find the next home soon. Absolutely, a change in cable/power cord can make a significant difference. This fact cannot become discounted. There are quite a few here who enjoy the 3.6 model. Tom is working diligently on the upgrade path. Stay tuned.

Happy Listening!

Hi Guys.
I haven't posted here very often and for quite some time, but remain a loyal Thiel fan and come back to read this thread often when i have time. 
For some background info...I own both CS3.6s (about 23 years!) and a much newer pair of CS2.4s which i purchased in March of 2019. The reason I purchased the 2.4s was to try to ascertain if an issue I began hearing after I had the "DR" update to my Naim 300 amp was speaker or electronics related. Turns out I heard the same issues on both the 2.4s and 3.6s. So for the last almost-2-years, I've been listening-making changes-listening...and have made significant progress. The most significant change was probably "time" - I think my amp needed many hundreds of hours of burn-in before an upper-midrange glare and harshness became more acceptable. Also, changing my speaker cables from Naim NACA5 to Townshend Isolda cables was significant. 
I've now decided to keep my 3.6s, sell my 2.4s (hope it's OK to plug my new ad on the "other" audio marketplace-in case anyone is interested in a really nice pair of 2.4s) and continue anxiously looking forward to Tom's upgrades on the 3.6s, especially given the recent posts discussing an upper-midrange glare present on the 3.6s that Tom will address. 
I've listened to quite a few speakers in the last 20-odd months and sat through quite a bit of BS from dealers criticizing Thiels, but after it all, I'm pretty confident that my 3.6s are still the real deal, and are worth the wait for Tom's magic. 
Thanks for all the good info - this thread continues to be a great place to read about and share our love of Thiel speakers!

tomthiel

Outstanding!  Happy Listening!

Jayant - the hotrod garage is growing to take over another workbench and use of the finishing room. It’s a slippery slope!

Corrected: and members of the Panel.

tomthiel

Thank You for always being on-point for our Vintage owners ans members of the Panel. Hope you are well and enjoying work in your Hot Rod garage.

Happy Listening!

cowolter

Welcome! Good to see you here. When did you purchase your 2.4 SE loudspeakers? What are the serial numbers (S/N)?
I look forward in reading more about your musical tastes , system.

Happy Listening!

Rockrink - Rob is always super busy, so I hesitate to offer him as a solution. Generally he will respond if he has a solution for you. The 0 series products are more than 40 years gone, so I don't know. As a long-shot speculation, Eminence Speaker Company is alive and well in Eminence Kentucky and MIGHT have records. The 03 and 03a from 1978 to 1983 shared the same woofer. It may have been the same or different woofer as the 01, 01a, 01b. They might know. 

tomthiel,

Thanks again. I think this coming weekend I'll pull one of the woofers and see what is actually in there. I'm not sure if Rob is on vacation or super busy, but he hasn't returned my two emails. 

Hmmm

... my problem with collecting too many models of Thiel speakers is that I am an Audio Note dealer. I need the space for demonstration of Audio Note products. What you are doing makes me wonder if there is a market for a used/modified Thiel dealer, here on the West Coast... hmmm.

Tomthiel,
I agree that the CS3.6 is the model to start with. There were so many sold, and they have had so many accolades, positive reviews, and historical references, that people who own them just love them, and people who dont, do remember them. There is nothing in the used marketplace, even close to thier audiophile sound qualities for the prices they sell for now. So once you get a couple of thier sonic flaws eliminated, and the word gets out that Mr. Tom Thiel (and Rob of Coherent Source) offer mods for them, one of the USA's most famous speakers (ever) can become a truly collectable "classic" item.

I will stick with my Thiel 3.5s and 3.7s, driven by MFA and ARC 6550 tube amps (respectively) of course. BUT, I do have a BIG solid state amp, that I'm not using, just PERFECT for 3.6s: Classe DR-250, 250 wpc, and one of the sweetest big amps ever made.

prof,

I'm certainly interested!

I've been luxuriating in my new Joseph Audio Perspective speakers for a while, but tonight I'm switching in my Thiel 2.7s in to the system again.I'll be interested to see how I react to them after acclimating to the Josephs.

Rockrink - on further remembering, we reinforced the 03A woofer baskets with epoxy. Rob at CSS might have original drivers or rebuild kits.

Rockrink - The original 03A woofers were made my Eminence, the sound reinforcement manufacturer. They had stamped steel baskets, foam surrounds, and (I think I remember) square ceramic magnets.

Someone suggested that the woofers in my 03A set may not be original. Does anyone remember what the originals would have been? 

I own the CS 2.4SE and the improvements that one can expect is the use of top film capacitors on the x-over. Happy Listening!

Happy Friday! All

Unsound- for many reasons, I am starting with old models. The 3.6 is good and stable without my ministrations for the time being.

@tomthiel, there are different reasons for different things. If you think the 3.6's are a better product to cut your teeth on for this project, so be it.

Re: CS6 Data Point

I wrote Rob a short note and asked him what he could tell me about my CS6’s - SN 1537 & 1538. Here’s what he said.

The CS6 was in production from 1992 through 2009. My pair was built around 2005.

There are a few versions of drivers and crossovers for the CS6 but mine are the latest version.

I asked Rob if he had developed any "hot rod kits" for the CS6 and he said that changing any parts to the crossovers have proven to reduce the performance. He added that he felt that Jim had pretty much optimized the design of that particular model.

I’m surprised that the CS6 had such a long manufacturing run (17 years). It seems to overlap somewhat with the 3 series but obviously it held its niche in the product line.

Unsound - an interesting thing about the 3.6 is that the drivers and XO are extremely well developed. The specs are great. However, it is the product where I identified the "hard glare" which I have been working to ameliorate with surface flow technologies. An updated 3.6 may perhaps be the easiest products to upgrade. Or so it seems at least until it gets on the bench.

I believe that a peer would have been good for him, his products, his company, and its future. But he never found that place. We all make our way the best we can. Thiel Audio carried him pretty well.

This is a very sweet and succinct assessment of Jim and his company.  As only a brother could write for us.

@tomthiel, I think your 3 series division is most logical. There is much respective overlaps there. The division also corresponds to amplification requirements of their respective eras, earlier models >4Ohms, later models <3 Ohms, and what users might have built around. I have no idea how many units have survived. IMHO, the marketplace for these  speakers is too unstable now to use as a barometer.

@thielrules, this also true of many other manufacturer's powered subs. Unlike some high end consumer class D amps, the OEM Class D units have perhaps become the most persistent break down problem in audio presently. 

We have not yet developed a maintenance solution, but are working on it.

Although the Thiel subs are great, I decided not to go this route as Rob warned me that he can't service these build in amps. When they malfunction, you are stuck. 

Unsound - you've got me thinking . . . I've been considering the 3.6 as the terminal discrete driver iteration of the model 3. But it might be more rightly thought of as a transition product between the sealed-bass "pure 3s" and the reflex bass "new 3s". The CS3 and 3.5 were, if I remember correctly, identical except for the midrange driver with its crossover tweaks, and the single jacks. The CS3 mid was too fragile and the more robust 3.5 mid was in fact a full-range driver. Any upgrades to the 3.5 could be applied to the 3 as well, creating perhaps a 3.5r (renaissance) as the next "pure 3". Combined, about 7500 pair or 'pure 3s' were sold. We know some of them survive on this forum and my "new" pair in the studio. How many do you think are out there?

Hey Jafant.

For interconnects, I generally use the Audioquest Evergreens. I think they sound good, are well made, and are generally a good value. My speaker cables are DIY built from some bulk Canare Star Quad cable I picked up a few years ago. 

How about you?

rockrink

I am looking forward in reading about the consultation with Rob.
Which cables/cords round out your system?
Big Lucinda Williams fan as well.

Happy Listening!

Thanks for the warm welcome. 

I checked the model number last night, and I stand corrected. The correct model is 03A. 

I have reached out to Mr. Gillum and will keep the group posted.

I have these paired with an Electrocompaniet integrated amp. I play vinyl from a VPI Scout and digital streaming using Audirvana running on a mac mini. My tastes range from Lucinda Williams to Led Zeppelin to Max Richter to Mark Knopfler and all points in between. And I am always looking for new music to listen to. When I first brought the Thiels into our living room, I played Lucinda's Rescue from her album West as a demo for my wife, and she just stared at the speakers and smiled. Scuffs and scars and all, they are now a part of our decor. 

I believe that a peer would have been good for him, his products, his company, and its future. But he never found that place. We all make our way the best we can. Thiel Audio carried him pretty well.

Unsound - again I agree. I suppose “maddening” is the word I would attach to Jim’s insistence on such low impedances.

@tomthiel, I guess you like the flat drivers. :-).
The other reason I’d be some what less interested in an updated 3.6 is the amplifier straining impedance load, without the redeeming lobing fix.

Saw Simon over at Audio Consultants yesterday where they are in process of cleaning up what little they have left. In case anyone is interested, among the leftovers was a pair of Thiel SCS3 speakers.