Just got the other one screwed back together and they're sitting on the floor playing. What an absolute joy. The plastic plate on the back is very cheap and flimsy, somebody deserves to get kicked in the scro for that. I'm gonna get some hardware to glue to that to keep it from vibrating so much. The overall sound is glorious and I'm enjoying it immensely.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,628 responses Add your response
Just screwed my most broken ViewPoint back together and it sounds awesome. The woofer sounds great, no rubbing or distortion. I plan on using these as computer speakers so no need for high volume. I’m feeling rather proud of myself as I now have what are probably about the best computer speakers on earth that I paid about as much for as you’d pay for something from audio engine. Take that establishment. |
bluetone... Are you they guy who drove here and picked them up??? Jeeze.... Rob @ Coherent repaired my first paid of mids years ago when I drove a phillips head screwdriver through the cone trying to find out why the sound was intermiitent. That pair of speakers was gifted to my nephew not long afterward. He still has them. Viva la 3.5 ! |
oblgny, mine did come with the eq, I have it plumbed between my preamp and amplifier. The preamp has two sets of pre-out, so I run one pair to eq to amp, the other pair to active subwoofer. I keep the eq button on 40 since I have the sub, I don't know if that matters but the less stress on the woofers the better (??). Honestly I think I could take the eq out of the chain and not hear much of a difference. The Scanspeak mids are 12W/8524G00 models, so once I get my mids back (and didn't they come from you on Long Island?), I'll be able to compare. |
bluetone... Your post did not mention if your pair of 3.5's came complete with the bass equalizer - IMHO the most important component of the model. I have had six pairs of Thiels - starting with the 2,2, 2.3, three pairs of 3.5 (don't ask), 3.6, and currently with a pair of 2.4's, which I am currently selling here on A'gon because I am returning to a monitor/subwoofer setup. This will buy me the time I am willing to endure to find yet ANOTHER pair of 3.5's to purchase - regardless, almost, of price. I am genuinely excited by the possibilities mentioned in this forum of updating 3.5's. Like yourself, I began this epic journey returning to hifi with some fairly low-to-mid-fi equipment. To recount all of the associated equipment I have thrown at these speakers since finding this site, and this forum, would bore the ears off even the most phile of audiophiles, so I won't. Suffice it to say that it's been a LOT. I ask whether or not your pair came complete with the bass equalizer because, IMHO, the 3.5 doesn't necessarily benefit from employing one since, with the bass eq employed in the chain, the frequency response is 20HZ - 20KHZ. The one issue with being able to employ the bass eq in the chain is that it required separates to do so. An integrated amplifier or a receiver - which is just another, busier integrated amplifier - required looping the eq through a tape monitor which, again IMHO, kind of negated the benefits the bass eq provided by adding another thing in the chain. ( I apologize for getting so technical here. ) I absolutely concur with your statement that more power improves the sonics at low to moderate listening levels. Eventually I was able to settle upon various amps that provided 150 watts @ 8ohms, 300 @ 4 ohms - the latter representing the load of "most" Thiel models and way more power than I would ever throw at them. To my humble ears the 3.5's bested any other model I have owned in reproducing music at low to moderate volume levels. I jumped off of the first two models mentioned too quickly to recall how well they managed to perform at my listening levels, but I hasten to add that it was not because they were deficient in any way, more so because they were so damn good and I wanted to move up the Thiel foodchain. Don't be an idiot like me - hang onto your 3.5's forever. Like every Thiel model they're an investment, not a purchase. Enjoy 'em! |
I think I'm going to be able to fix these. When the magnet broke loose it caught the voice coil in the gap which is why the woofer was dead. I finally got the voice coil loose and it doesn't look damaged. I realigned it and it seems to be working fine. I just need to glue it back together and reconnect the tweeter and I think I'm good. Fingers crossed. |
I just took apart the ViewPoints that FedEx destroyed. One works aside from the shattered back plate. On the other one the back silver part of the woofer is loose and the woofer cone itself is stuck. I tried to get it loose but no luck so far. Both coils broke off of the crossover circuit board and are floating around, though still connected. The tweeter still works. It's a real bummer, I've been wanting a pair of these or PowerPoints for ages. |
Greetings all, I thought I would take a moment to reintroduce myself to this thread and share my Thiel journey. I bought my 3.5s about a year ago, my third pair of Thiels, starting with the 1.2 then 1.5. Literally a week after I 'upgraded' to the 1.5's, a pair of 3.5's popped up locally and I had to do it. The original mids had been replaced at some point with Scanspeak mids, but thru this forum I found an original pair (as well as tweets, woofers and crossover's). Rob rebuilt the mids (he told me that was the last pair he could rebuild due to lack of original components), then they were off to Tom Thiel to aid in his quest for finding / confirming a suitable mid replacement for the 3.5s. I'm still rocking the aftermarket Scanspeaks until Tom is finished, and very curious as to any mods he finds for the 3.5s. I'm mostly a vintage guy, by choice and budget. Originally I was powering the 3.5s with a Kenwood KA-9800 integrated, approx. 125 wpc/4 ohms. I knew that wasn't enough power to drive the 3.5s sufficiently, I just told myself that at the volume I listen it didn't matter much. Then I had two vintage amps pop up locally, a Yamaha M85 (@325 wpc/4 ohms) and a Denon POA1500 (@225 wpc/4 ohms). Now I've concluded I should have been flogged with 8 ga. speaker wire for muffling the 3.5s with a relatively low-powered amp. The Denon and Yamaha (especially the Yammy) really opened up the 3.5s at all volume levels. So currently I'm running the Yamaha (or Denon) amplifier, Denon PRA 1000 preamp, Thiel 3.5's with eq, Revel Concerta subwoofer, Bluesound Vault and a Kenwood KD-5100 turntable. I have the Revel dialed in so that you wouldn't know it was there, just makes the 3.5s sound like they drop down below their capabilities. I'm pretty happy with the sound, my room is odd-shaped 22 x 15 with an angled wall that houses my setup, speakers being 7 feet apart, 1 ft off the wall. Really curious to see what the original mids will bring to the party once I get them back. On a side note, really interesting to hear Tom Thiel's involvement with Peavey, I've been building guitars for a few years now, check out my website. http://www.bluetoneguitars.com/ |
tomthiel I think shipping the speakers isn't a great option given the cost and risk of damage; Rob already told me he wouldn't recommend it for the larger speakers. The crossover board swap seems a good option-provided that detailed instructions are included on how to disconnect them, hopefully without having to desolder connections on the boards (perhaps cutting the wires and then using a quick connect for the new boards?). I anxiously read your updates on progress in the hot-rod garage! |
jonandfamily Not being able to listen to the 3.7s in my room is the primary reason I've not purchased them. While their high cost is a consideration, I'm more concerned with how the load they present compares to my 3.6s and my amp's ability to drive them. Also, I have concerns about the upper-mid-range of the 3.7s - regarding compatibility with my updated Nam amp which now requires careful matching. All this points to the need to audition the 3.7s in my room, and as you already state--that's unlikely. I'm actually not as concerned with the low end of the 3.7s compared to the 3.6s. I actually had the opportunity to audition the 3.7s against the 3.6s in my former house (I knew Thiel's PR guy, who bought the 3.7s to my house for audition) and really liked the increased tightness and definition of the 3.7s bass/mid-bass and overall superior resolution compared to the 3.6s. I decided to pass them up because the midrange was somewhat thin and sterile in my old room and old system. I sometimes regret that decision but still think the 3.6s are very good. |
Guys - when hot-rod mods become available, we intend to offer various levels of service, such as parts kits for the vigorous DIYs, pre-assembled crossovers to swap for your old ones, physical brace and baffle kits for the DIY, or send your speakers to Rob for him to do, and so forth and so on. There will be plenty of options. Tom |
rosami I'm in the same boat as you...very happy with my 3.6s. I have nearly pulled the trigger on a 3.7 purchase 2 times over the past few years but backed out at the last moment. I would love to hear them in my system before a purchase, but that will likely never happen. My hesitation is due to both the significant price jump (I purchased my 3.6s in mint condition from the original owner who lived 90 miles from me in 2012 for $1200 on Audiogon) and the reported attenuated deep bass response. It seems like more 3.7 owners have subs compared to 3.6 owners. I'm also very interested in the future hot rod mods, but also concerned about my ability to install once available. Jon |
Peavey made their mark beginning in the 1960s with their high-powered, bulletproof amps and stage speaker cabinets at affordable prices. Hartley Peavey did it well. He saw opportunities and went for them. He kept his prices reasonable when big money bought Fender and other big stage players, quality went down and prices skyrocketed. Sound familiar? One of my formative jobs after developing the production capacity for Thiel Audio, was Peavey’s development of Eddie VanHalen’s Wolfgang Guitar. I helped crack the code to reliably get the sound that Eddie wanted, based on wood particulars. I moved to New Hampshire to supply (over 5 years' time) 17,000 Birdseye Maple neck/fingerboard sets and Basswood bodies from wood that I personally selected in Northeast US and Canada, milled in New Hampshire, specially dried in Massachusetts, and sent on to Jeremy Kling (my godson) in Lexington to turn into matched sets for Peavey. Big job - got me into the high-end tonewood production business, traveling the world selecting wood from sustainable sources, including a sunken ship, typhoon and hurricane cleanups, Amazonian replant projects, deconstruction of a railroad trestle and old buildings, among others. What a trip. I think that Peavey is chugging along nicely as an all-american innovative manufacturer with a good reputation and world-wide distribution. |
Those 3.7s on ebay are gorgeous. Every time a nice pair comes along I drive myself crazy. My 3.6s are sounding really excellent-with a caveat or two-and i wonder about the logic of spending so much given how good the 3.6s are. I also wonder weather Tom T's upcoming mods will be too much for non-techies and how much effort will be involved. Yup - first-world problems are a bitch. |
For something different -- i waited until after the SB to post :) -- based on a comment i read from Paul McGowan, i purchased Billie Eilish's new CD "when we all fall asleep, where do we go?" I listened to it earlier today and Wow! While not exactly the type of music i generally listen to, it's really well recorded (reportedly on a cheap system in her bedroom) and really shows how good our Thiels are--bass, imaging,depth, resolution--are all there! Highly Recommended. |
Tom - indeed Ed and his brother Bill were our source for the model 01 tweeter. They knew their stuff. We had hoped to work with Ed Long, and with Eminence as we developed our own drivers. But Ed wanted full design control (including XOs, etc.) which was a non-starter for us, and Eminence ran out of their depth early-on. At the time they could not source cast baskets, and were not interested in Jim's custom pole geometries and close tolerances and QC specs. Their attitude was that if it's good enough for Peavey, it should be good enough for you. Peavey was their principal customer and pretty demanding for the times, but home playback was a different league that they couldn't relate to. We found Vifa at their beginning and developed a long-term, mutually beneficial relationship with them, until they ran out of depth and we took matters in-house in the mid 1990s. |
Snbeall - the upgrade project is making progress every day, but the reports are lean due to legal / ownership uncertainties, which I never expected to take this long to work out. All products can be improved with better passive components, but the newer the products, the less bang for buck. Stay tuned. Use the PPs as-is. The PP1.2 was my first approach to modern Thiels, after using my 2.2s for decades as mix-master evaluation tools. The PP1.2 blows me away, just as they are, and even more so with component upgrades. I haven't yet tried my emerging "Laminar Launch" technology on it, but its already-small and round form factor may be the best of the Thiel batch in its stock form. Stay tuned. Regarding subwoofer - the PP benefits the most of all, since its bass was never intended as a stand-alone, and its roll out is critically damped 2nd order and optimized for subwoofer mating. My best results are by hanging the PPs on the ceiling (as recommended in the User Guide), and placing a subwoofer against the front wall, below each PP. The room-tuning sets on Thiel SmartSubs provide compensation for the wall or corner reinforcement. A big deal is that the PP makes no floor or ceiling bounce as there always is with floor-standers. The ear-brain compensates wonderfully for those bounce interferences, but when they are absent, the sound becomes more natural. As you see, I'm a fan. |
Tom Thiel when you stated Long Engineering was that the company of Ed Long who patented the Time Align setup for crossovers? In the early 80’s a friend and I contracted Ed Long to design a 8 in midbass driver and a 4 inch midrange driver that were built by Eminence which is about 30 miles from my home. The 8 inch was in a rather small sealed enclosure and the mid and tweeter were mounted on sculpted panel time offset to the wooden cabinet attached below. The midrange was mounted in a open back damped tube. Both the 8 in and 4 inch were very shallow in cone depth. Ed’s thinking was the deeper the cone the more time the cone was out of time alignment as it traveled. Of course Ed designed the crossover as well. The bass eventually became a early version of the ELF subwoofers who along with Long was patented by Ron Wickersham . Eminence built us 10 inch woofers which we mounted 2 in a each separate but attached cabinet. These also had a time offset. The drivers were crossed over below the system resonance point and we put in use a Mcintosh MQ 104 xover and eq for the woofers extension and control. They were powered by a Tom Holman amp. Incredible soundstage and super fast powerful bass with no boom or overhang. May be the the best integrated bass I have ever heard to this day. Good luck to all following this thread and sharing their experiences and upgrades. Tom |
tomthiel, A life time lover of Thiel Audio, I never managed to own any myself - either due to $, space, or SAF restrictions. Although I had never heard them, the Powerpoints always intrigued me, so when I recently stumbled onto a set of 5 Powerpoint 1.2’s, I grabbed them. I was blown away in a rudimentary 2.1 audition on the floor (hardwood over concrete). In fact, the imaging was so convincing that my SO wandered into the room and asked what I’d done to the floorstanders next to them. “Her voice sounds so natural”. She then noticed the Powerpoints and asked, “And what are those things on the floor?! They look like boobs!” Which, in fact they do. No wonder I’d always been intrigued! In fact, I was so impressed that I’ve been accumulating Powerplanes as well - perhaps to supplement the PPoints in a future multichannel project. I’m even a bit sorry to have missed those recent Viewpoints for the bedroom TV. I was powering the PP1.2’s with a Bluesound Powernode 2i which is what I had on hand. Although the little (60W) hybrid digital amp is quite respectable in it’s own right, I have to wonder if I couldn’t do better. I have tried to follow your PP1.2 saga, but the thread is HUGE and the search function may not have turned up all your posts. I’ve never found what you are using to drive yours. Any recommendations - preferably used/depreciated? And do you cross them to a sub? I’ve accumulated both the 2 and 5 channel dedicated Thiel passive sub crossovers as well. ;-) The trail seems to have grown cold on the external crossover mods - seemingly related to the bankruptcy settlement. Any updates there? Thx in advance. And in retrospect as well. |
George, yes we did. Jim was very mathematically oriented. The TS parameters were quite new when we began, and I doubt we would have tried speakers without them. Our first drivers were from Eminence and Long Engineering, whom we cajoled Into deriving the TSPs, which was a kick in the pants for them, a solid starting place for us, and the 01, 02 and O3s were unbelievable for their time due to hard , predictive engineering rather than progressive guesses, which was the order of the day. |
Tomic - my friend was an early entry for aerospace and aircraft parts. And he's committed to the Love of Music, and he really knows his stuff. That's about as firm as we are at this time. There are lots of reasons to not care about pistonic diaphragms. They are extremely difficult and expensive and higher order slopes don't care all that much. |
Tomic - we don't have that scan adapter, but it is indeed affordable. Thiel was always going for pistonic driver behavior and the wavy drivers take that way up. I have an associate who could make the wavy drivers in carbon at a real-world price. Wouldn't that be something? JFant - Jim's rig was trashed. Rob got New Thiel's Klippel, which is very good stuff. |
@tomt one recent development I am quite excited about is a German laser scanning machine for evaluation of drivers pistonic behavior- excellent Vandersteen video of two drivers side by side test results.... lots of out of phase trash in the pass band on the comparison driver. I mention this because I believe this is a key key way to move the art forward- we need more pistonic AND affordable drivers!!!!! the scan costs $500 |
Regarding measurements - some of you have probably seen Jim's setup. It was home-brew, but quite extensive. Of interest is that the swept sine wave told more about some aspects, and his "bleeper" which was 1/3 octave tone-bursts, told different aspects more clearly, and pink noise again a different shade of meaning. He correlated these chamber tests with outdoor normal plane and ground plane and up-firing from the sand pit. Part of his witches' brew was how he weighed and rolled with all those variants. When we went to the listening room, he would spread out graphs so that he and we could correlate different aspects with what we heard . . and make progress decisions. Of note is that when New Thiel took over, they trashed Jim's gear and replaced it with a Klippel rig. Rob now has that rig, but neither of us has approached it yet. |