tomthiel , You must have a wonderful daughter !
I'm a classical man but that piece is the most human clip I have ever seen ,.
I'm a classical man but that piece is the most human clip I have ever seen ,.
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,676 responses Add your response
Hey guys - I would like to share a link that my daughter Dawn sent me for these times of darkness. Music feeds the soul. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph1GU1qQ1zQ&feature=youtu.be |
uncle_monkey Regarding your post and comment about the IsoAcoustics Gaias, I wanted to relay my experience. Give social separating and all, I've been spending time redoing my whole system; I've torn it apart, remade all contacts, isolated components, redressed all wires, repositioned speakers--and finally (after many months of experimenting with speaker position) remounted my CS3.6s onto my Townshend Speaker Isolation Podiums. Since I think they have the same function as the Gaias, I wanted to provide my experience with using the Podiums. Specifically-IMHO and in my room, they provide: -- significantly improved width and depth imaging -- significantly better "disappearing" of speaker positioning -- better low-level detail retrieval -- some lessening of an upper-mid peak present in the 3.6s -- tighter and better defined low-mid-bass with better rhythm & timing (I'm a Naim guy) Along with all those positives is a caveat. My dedicated listening room is on the second floor of my house-so on a suspended wooden floor. I bought the Townshend Platforms primarily in an effort to lessen transmission of low-end bass notes into the house structure (and quiet my wife complaining from downstairs of "the boom"). The isolation platforms significantly reduce this problem, so I can listen louder and later if I want without bothering the rest of the house. Along with all those positives is the fact that the platform's taking away of the floor's significant contribution to the low-end also somewhat lessens the excitement and impressiveness of the bottom end. So while the bottom end is cleaner and faster, it's also a little less impressive since what you're left with is the sound of the speaker alone-devoid of the low-end enhancement and reinforcement from the floor. For me-it's 95% positive using the isolation platforms, but some may find it more of a compromise. (These comments are based on my previously using the supplied spikes.) Since you're lucky enough to have a wood floor over concrete, you may not have the same experience as I did. Hope that helps! I'm going to update my system pics on Audiogon's Virtual Systems Community section to reflect the addition of the podiums and "prettying up" my system, if anyone wants to see the 3.6s on the Podiums. Stay safe everyone! |
Arvin, I think you've expressed the real joy of this hobby. The personal satisfaction of a carefully crafted system, where the pieces have been assembled in a pains taking fashion over time, in many cases over many, many years. The special bliss when the synergy is there to be had and the gear and the music all come together and magic happens. |
Hi @tomthiel, The core of my system remain the Thiel CS 3.5's being fed by two Audio Research D240 MKII solid-state amps (in bridged-mono configuration), with Audio Research tube preamps (LS7 line-stage and PH3 phono). The source I was streaming Tidal from is my Bluesound Vault 2, which has a MQA-capable DAC built-in...most of the files I've been listening to lately are MQA-encoded tracks. As before, my listening area is on the smaller side, probably 14'x10', but thanks to your help, I think I finally was able to nail down my listening height issue...my ears are now about 30"-32" from the floor, depending on how far I lean my chair back. I came to the feeling of satisfaction from two different vantage points...one practical, the other emotional. On the practical side, I finally got the feeling that, if I could never try another/different/new component in my system, I would be okay with it. That I finally had a system that satisfied me with not only how it sounds and how it performs, but also gave me great joy in owning it, great pride in the time and effort it took to acquire the right pieces and put it all together. From an emotional standpoint, it was the realization that I was no longer listening to music...I was experiencing it. When one listens to the greats...be it Miles Davis or Dexter Gordon, Van Cliburn or Horowitz, Clapton or Page, Pet Sounds or Sgt. Pepper's...you should feel wonder and amazement, of feelings that go beyond simply listening and to the emotions that these great artists, and others like them, have when they perform. That's what I had...that's what I finally understood...that for me, Hi-Fi meant feeling the music on an emotional scale more than anything else. And, the only way I got there, was because of this beautiful, seemingly perfect combination of metal, wood, wire and current that moved air in such a way that it stirred emotion. I was satisfied, because I had come to understand what this wonderful hobby meant to me. Could it be better? Sure...I would never delude myself with thinking that it couldn't. But, the more important question I asked myself was, "Did I need it to be better?" And, without hesitation, I am happy with knowing that right now, no...I'm pretty happy with where I'm at! So, Thank You Tom and everyone else for your help, guidance and knowledge. And I hope that this finds you and yours well and safe... Arvin |
Satisfaction... Just spent the last few hours listening to Tidal MQA streams of Dexter Gordon, John Coltrane, Kenny Burrell, Thelonius Monk and others...and I didn't listen to the equipment so much anymore, I just listened to the music. And that music was so right...timbre, pace, rhythm, tone, timing, nuance and brilliance...that I suddenly realized I had built something that I am completely satisfied with. That I was more in a place where making any change would worry me that it could be one that detracts or worsens...that here, right now, I was truly happy in this space. A realization that the dream I had when I was 15 years old of one day, owning a real "audiophile" system had finally come true. Or, it could be just stir craziness creeping in during these crazy times we live in...who knows? But damn...the music is so, so good and it sounds incredible coming out of this thing I put together! Satisfaction indeed... Hope you are all well and are staying safe! Arvin |
I could be wrong but I believe this is the older gentleman I was talking about mentioned in this case -
https://casetext.com/case/warren-v-greenfield
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Tom - I worked in Center City Philadelphia from late 1985 through late 1996. There were two hifi shops nearby. One was Nathan Muchnick which was on a main street and the old guy's store (Greenfields???) was on a side street. Been over 23 years. I really enjoyed hearing his speakers. I have multiple systems today (just don't like selling stuff so most often it gets rotated to a back-up systems) and would really have enjoyed having something like that. |
Cascade - I can't remember his or his shop's name, but I remember playing the first-tier Thiel speakers for him in his shop in 1977. He was complimentary and said he wished he were younger because a new world was unfolding for the young. He showed me his reflective speakers, which pre-dated Bose by many years. Bose had threatened him (cease and desist) and he responded that he would not sue to invalidate Bose's patent if Bose left him alone. And so it was. |
Bose has always been active on the litigation front -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_Corporation I'm not even sure that they were the first with direct reflecting technology in speakers. Many moons ago I worked in Center City Philadelphia. There was an older gentleman who had a small but nice audio shop. He had speakers that had good drivers in them (not cheap ones) and had them near the wall with a piece of plexi-glass reflecting them into the wall. For that type of sound, it was outstanding. There were music celebrities who would visit the store. I believe (to the best of my memory) Bose threatened legal action (and he probably was selling them years before they came out with it) and he just didn't have resources to fight it. Bose is not alone. Many companies with lots of resources flex their muscle. I remember having some brick work done on an old house and the company name was 'Bricks R Us' withe the 'R' backwards and he got a nasty letter from Toys R Us (with the threat of legal action) and on the invoice he went over the backwards R by hand and changed it to a B. Smaller companies, whether it's Thiel or others, are not going to be able to match resources. It's just the way the system works (it's not perfect is necessarily right). I don't like it either and all I can do is not personally buy products from such companies (that's all anyone can do). |
A personal piece of history: Bose made Thiel cease and desist from using the number 2.2 for our second generation model 2, which we renamed the CS2 2, without the decimal point, garnering more publicity and support than any emerging company could ask for.TBH I never forgave Bose for that (being the owner of some 2 2’s). Glad it actually worked in your favor, but I could never see how they could claim infringement on a number system. I doubt seriously they could slide today, what with the advent of the internet and software, everything is 2.x and 3.x. C-Vega “ Strong Like Bull, Smart Like Tractor “A friend had some C-V’s back in the day. We affectionately called them the Gruntpigs. Arvin - floor coupling is, in my experience, a worthwhile endeavor. During development of the 03 In the late 70s, we discovered a new problem attributable to phase/time coherence, of a bothersome upper midrange jitteriness. A cure was to couple the speakers to the wood floor via 3 pins.I’m hoping to get my 2.2’s back to daddy soon, in my new place which I’m frantically readying. In my other setups, I used the cones on pucks when I had suspended hardwood floors, and then the cones directly on carpet so they connected to the sub-floor in an upstairs room. Now, I’ll have them on hardwood over concrete slab, so I figured dig out the pucks again. However I was wondering if anybody has tried anything like the IsoAcoustics Gaia? It seems to me to be the opposite of what you’d want, but an awful lot of people are singing their praises. Thoughts? |
Arvin - floor coupling is, in my experience, a worthwhile endeavor. During development of the 03 In the late 70s, we discovered a new problem attributable to phase/time coherence, of a bothersome upper midrange jitteriness. A cure was to couple the speakers to the wood floor via 3 pins. That solution became part of the product and rubbed off into the general 3rd party stabilizer feet solution. Piercing carpet via spikes also firmed up the bass. However, coupling directly to concrete sometimes produced an undesirable edginess. In my time at Thiel, we supplied invertible pins where the domed end could be used to concentrate the load, significantly smush the carpet, but not penetrate to the underlying floor. A similar effect could be gotten by placing the spikes into small diameter cups of some kind. In the day I had some cups machined from brass (for shows). The top had a pointed-bottom hole to match the pin, and the bottom was a hemisphere about 1/4" diameter. You can buy online brass hemispheres and drill a dimple to capture the point of the pin. |
jazzman... A small number of b&m retailers remain throughout NY metro which is fortunate for moi in terms of visiting them, and having pretty much dropped in on all of them at one time or another, a nice little education in a lot of very good stuff. I would guesstimate that I’ve purchased 50% of what I was able to listen to over the years so it’s an equitable arrangement for everyone. |
oblgny FWIW ... I too find SQ of Qobuz to be marginally better than Tidal. I have nothing against MQA streamed from Tidal, but there is also something nice about being able to stream in Hi Res at native resolution via Qobuz. I too hope your 2.4 speakers find a good home. Someone in your locale is going to be very lucky. You yourself are also fortunate that your local dealer is still alive and kicking ... I'm still very much in mourning that my own local dealer (Audio Consultants in Evanston, IL) recently closed its doors. |
oblgny As always, good to hear from you, Brother. Thank You for the update and I hope your CS 2.4 speakers find the next good home. Equally good to read that you stay in contact with Audio Den and their expansion. Most of us are not so fortunate to have a dealer/retailer within a five minute drive from home. Yes, the Ayre integrated is incredible and impressive enough to drive Maggies. I know that you enjoy both Maggies and Thiels.Hope that you are well and gearing up for Spring! Happy Listening! |
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jafant... My local bricks and mortar buds, Audio Den located in beautiful downtown Lake Grove, NY - a town with neither a lake nor a grove - only recently relocated into a new space a little further away from my home. Their new location is now a five minute drive from my house, whereas the old location was literally a nice little walk. The move was necessitated by their needing a larger space to display/audition home theatre/automation equipment which, by dint of the medium, requires more real estate. (Large flat screens, yadda, yadda, yadda...) To be clear, they haven't altogether abandoned two-channel weirdos like meself. A little while back there was some mention of Ayre equipment in the postings and I was able to listen to an integrated amp through a pair of Maggie 3.7's. Swe-e-e-e-e-t. This was...Octoberish 2019 or thereabouts - while we were imagining the winter to come that never showed up. Recently, I reconfigured my setup back to a monitors as, once again, financial difficulties have arisen. I am selling my pair of CS2.4's in order to pay some bills and whatnot. (listed here on the site) I'm pretty much giving them away in order to expedite a cash infusion. C'est la vie. I was recently able to procure a pair of Totem Rainmaker monitors to temporarily substitute for the 2.4's until such time that I will again return to Thiel. This would be my second pair of this model, and I also had two pairs of the Hawk model over the course of time that I've been a member here. (Yeah, yeah, yeah, this site has totally ruined my life.) They ain't Thiel by any stretch of one's imagination, but they are my preferred manufacturer when it comes to monitors and/or medium sized floorstanders. I am using Transparent bi-wire cables with the Rainmakers which does improve the sonics somewhat over using the jumper setup. These are rather diminutive in size so garden-hose sized cables can be problematic with keeping them stable on the stands. (I know from experience having almost suffered losing my first pair with a Tara Labs garden hose.) Tippy little things with thick cables... While I await a prospective buyer for the 2.4's I just want to add that I've been toying around with Tidal and Qobuz through the 2.4's. I don't know if its my imagination or what, but the 2.4's clearly preferred Qobuz. I like both services but I lean toward Qobuz for streaming because I was able to hear a difference between it and Tidal on my COMPUTER - an iMac 27" which ain't exactly built for high fidelity anything. That observation remained intact when I played it through my stereo. Qobuz has a more limited inventory of artists, and experiences more frequent bandwidth constrictions than Tidal, but I did detect a preferable difference. I like Tidal as well and I am signed up for the highest rez subscription. I am still on the trial phase with Qoboz. Tidal is $19.99 montly, Qobuz would be $14.99. Decisions, decisions...Apple's Music just plain outright sucks. (And I'm a lifelong Apple freak) I'm a bit off-topic here, and not for the first time either, but when I compare the online streaming thingies my observation that some have greater or lesser artist inventories ought to taken with a grain of salt. I OWN more music than I could complete listening to before I leave this earthly plain, so the differences between a bazillion artists on one service and a billion on another is pretty much inconsequential, Any streaming service ought to be considered as a complement to everything we already possess, not a replacement. I was able to find a number of releases by Bill Frisell on Tidal that Apple Music did not have, and a few on Qobuz that neither had. It can pay to bounce around a bit. And since decent commercial FM stations are pretty much obsolete, streamers are a good way to discover new stuff. Rock on Thielistas! |
@vair68robert I second @jafant...I am finding your cable posts quite informative. If there's one area of Hi-Fi where one can safely & cost-effectively practice some DIY, it's in building a good set of cables. I hope to start myself jow that I'm fairly satisfied with my components. Thanks for sharing! Arvin |
@tomthiel Question for you, Tom: Any experience with placing the 3.5's on a platform? Say 2" of butcher block maple with brass carpet spikes underneath? Something my uncle suggested this morning after seeing/hearing my system for the first time. FWIW, he thinks it sounds great & that "we're all crazy for chasing that last 10% for true greatnes!" Ah, something audiophiles will only understand! Arvin |
vair68robert Thank You for the kind words and being a valuable member of the Panel.I am a "cable" guy first and foremost. I only wished that I had the know-how (DIY) and time to build my own like so of you here.The real beauty in cabling options belies in price ( two figures all of the way up to five figures). Attempting to create system synergy is the most important consideration. Audiophiles are achieving excellent results well below the five figure price tag. Happy Listening! |
jafant Thank you You started a forum discission that has become one of the most informative and cerebral, which I believe has and is appreciated by all who have read and participated . With close to 8,000 posts and 155 pages of interaction I've seen many manufactured speaker cables mentioned as being compatable with and liked by Thiel owners owners . So my getting to detailed, focused or opinionated about one cable manufacture might not be appreciated by most on a "Thiel Speaker " forum. Rob |
sdl4 the Parsec is 4 , 2 for each polarity ( Quad link ) Go to Cardas look at the picture of the Parsec speaker cable , they show one side single ended , you'll see a twisted pair of wires going to a spade connector for each polarity , then look at the other end , 4 wires ( bi-wired ) that are straight or a single wire . I can't explain the error in the catalog , Cardas uses 15.5 , 11.5 and 9.5 awg , but since your question I discovered that they a have 6.5 awg used in Clear only . Call or e-mail Cardas , Start a forum question to see if anybody made a lateral move by going from Quadlink or Golden Reference to Parsec or Clear Reflection , the only difference being the patented Matched Propagation . Yes there is a special way , that is why a solder pot is needed , check out Cardas video . Contact Michael Percy Audio for cable and connectors , he might prepare the cable ends for you so you wouildn't have to purchase a solder pot and solder bar ( you can't use solder wire in it ) I'm sure this is boring others so you can e-mail me at rsr921@live.com Rob |
Rob, Thanks for the additional info on the Cardas cables, but I'm still a little confused. Looking at the Cardas website and a 2019 Cardas catalog I have, it looks like the Parsec speaker cable is made of 4 X 15.5 AWG conductors in a star-quad arrangement rather than 2 X 15.5 AWG. Also, the Clear Beyond is listed as 8 X 10.5 in the catalog and 8 X 9.5 on the website. Not a big deal, I guess, but still confusing. Both sources make it clear that the chassis wire is Litz wire with individual strands coated with enamel. Did you have to deal with the enamel in any special way when you terminated the wires or does the solder take care of it? |
sdl4 If you look at the Cardas Audio website then Beyond Clear you'll see 4 X 9.5 awg , the chassis wire is 1 of those (9 different guages) without the 2 layers of shielding . If you decide to try you'll need the following tools wire stripper , crimping tool , solder pot , solder iron and heat gun . I completed mine about 10 daysago and are now broken in. I have found it hard not to express my enthusiasm over these since every day, every album I am enjoying them like hearing them for the first time , to me this was one of those changes that turned into a "Hey Hey" & "Holy Cow" moment vs. just a "that sounds better" one . The Parsec cable that you said you could afford uses 2 X 15.5 awg wires = 12 awg , the same as my first set of Quadlink, As far as the match propagation , I'm sure there is something to it but how much ? For the cost it's definatly something to think about , especially with your required length . Rob |
vair68robert, Thanks for the suggestion about making DIY cables from the Cardas 9.5 gauge chassis wire. Your thoughts are interesting about how Cardas' "golden ratio" designs may be affecting what you hear from the cables you've tried. I'm also wondering about the audio effects of Cardas' use of "matched propagation" in their newer cables to match the speed of the conductors and dielectrics. Maybe this type of construction matters or maybe it's mainly marketing hype - I don't know enough to have an informed opinion. How is the chassis wire constructed? |
Robert - there are many variables in wire including gauge, purity, surface smoothness, dialectrics, layout, etc. To some degree, enough size is enough and the other design parameters become more important. Cardas knows a lot. Regarding internal wire: my point was that XO to driver resistance change will have more effect on tonality than pre XO runs. In fact, the differences will be pretty negligible and the other considerations may tip the balance in favor of "better" wire. Norah Jones rocks. Little slice of history. The late Bob Lundvall found and signed Norah to his Blue Note label. I was working with his son Kurt who has his own audiophile recording and mastering business. Bob asked Kurt to critique the master of Come Away with Me, for which one of his references was my Thiel CS2.2s. I imagine that Kurt's evaluation notes probably had some influence on the final master. I love the recording. |
I would like to amend a statement I made from " size matters " to sizes matters . When Mr. Thiel asked me about the AWG of the cables I was using vs.the cables that I made I was suprised that a smaller AWG sounded better , so I looked back at my history of cable upgrades . I started with BJ cables of 10 AWG then went to Cardas Quadlink cables that were 12 AWG and liked them more , upgrading to Cardas Neutral Reference cables that are 8.5 AWG and again liking them more than the Quadlink . In making cables using Cardas 9.5 AWG chassis wire and liking them even more than the upgrade from 12 AWG to 8.5 AWG I got to thinking WHY ? The only conclusion I could come up with is the design of the Cardas Golden Ratio , as the individual cable increases in AWG the outer strands become larger . When I looked at the construction of the Cardas speaker cables the maximum AWG they used for the Reference line was 11.5 , using multipules for increased total AWG , until Clear Beyond their top of the line which uses multipules of 9.5 . Since Mr. Thiel used Morrow cable I looked them up and they use a simular approach that many cables makers use , more of the same . Morrow like Belden or Monster uses small single strands using many to make their AWG so a 10 AWG has more of the same single strand gauge wires than the 12 AWG cable . I'm not saying that one is better than the other but to my ears I believe that there is something to it . While this may seem like a bunch of self inflated BS , I am preparing myself for the start of the internal speaker wiring upgrade. Mr. Thiel recommended that I could increase the AWG of the wire from the speaker post to the crossover board and at the same time I should keep the wires to the speakers the same AWG or the same resistence . I remember beetlemania used Cardas chassis wire and was very pleased with the results . @sdl4 You mentioned that you like the idea of Cardas cables but need 7 meters and that Parsec cables would cost $ 1,575 , for $700 you could try making your own and I believe have a much better sounding set of cables . I also use the Norah Jones album Come Away With Me side 1 as my first reference music after any change , especially when tube rolling in my phono preamp . |
Arvin - thanks for your detailed report. I would like to add some thoughts because setup is so crucial for performance. It's no secret that Thiels, especially the pre-coax models are tricky devils to optimize. I'll describe Jim's design assumptions, since working toward those ideals, within your own constraints, will result in the closest approach to objective correctness. Anyone's preferences may vary. All considered, I like a more far-field perspective; some like to be on the performance stage, and the room size dictates so much. The design distance is 10' from speaker to ear (mic) at about 20° off axis - speaker straight ahead yields that angle. That setup takes a pretty big room and/or some sort of absorption at the side wall reflection point. Ear height is assumed at 3' (normal couch / easy chair). The farther afield, the more leniency develops for all geometry. Distance to backing wall is user selectable. I like about 4', which gains greater bass articulation at the expense of less bass amplitude. Over the years, I have seen the most grief caused by too-high ear position. 3' is the target, which gets more critical as distance decreases. Closer than about 8' and the relationships really suffer. Note that ear height adjustment works better than speaker tilting, since tilting changes the way the floor bounce works. I suggest getting ear height as close as possible, then tinting so that the tweeter (3' up) fires at your ear, and toeing in to control wall bounce while keeping the speakers firing at 10° to 20° off axis - they will cross behind your head. All speakers deal with the room puzzle, but Thiel adds the challenges of lobing to the equation. |
Hello all! I have finally been able to make it home and put in a dedicated listening session, experimenting with tilting my speakers as @tomthiel had suggested and also varying ear height with regards to my listening position. First off, this experiment started due to the fact I had been experiencing graininess/brightness issues recently. At first, I thought it was due to switching to MIT Terminator 2 RCA interconnects from my line-stage to the Thiel Bass Equalizer and again from there to my amps. Then, I thought it could be the onboard DAC in my Bluesound Vault 2, which has been described by some to be on the lean/bright side. Finally, could it be the addition of the second D240 MKII amp? Now that I'm running a bridged mono configuration, is it the 3.5's showing off their revealing nature even more? Only when Tom saw the pics of my listening area did he suggest to tilt the speakers back to try and compensate for a listening height that may be too high. Tracks used for critical listening included: - "The Game of Love" by Santana - "Steam" by Peter Gabriel - "Crush" by Dave Mathews Band - "Soul Bossa Nova" by Quincy Jones and his Orchestra - "Desafinado" by Stan Getz and Joao Gilberto - "Midnight Blue" by Kenny Burrell - "Don't Know Why" by Norah Jones - "Son of a Preacher Man" by Dusty Springfield All these tracks are in Hi-Res FLAC (Vault library) or MQA (streaming) formats coming from my Bluesound Vault 2 using the onboard DAC. After listening to the tracks in my default position, I began by tilting each speaker back about 3" using sand bags. I found that they became quite unstable if I tried to tilt them much further than that. In listening to the tracks now, there was a noticeable change in sound: there was a smoother presentation overall, with less glare at the very top. I wouldn't say it was rolled off or missing, just not as pronounced as before. However, the more i listened, the more I realized I was missing some of the instrument separation that I had before, not in a bad way, but just different. The tilted position also made the speakers "disappear" a bit more, but was I losing some of the "presence" of the musical performance? So, I decided to experiment further: instead of tilting the speakers, I got a different, lower chair and measured my ear height based off of Tom's recommendations. Now, with my ears about 32" from the floor, I was definitely below the tweeter level. In this position, I felt instantly familiar with the overall presentation from my speakers...maybe not as smooth as with the tilted position, but the highs were better controlled than I had heard in my original position. Most importantly, I felt more presence, more involvement here...that I could "see" where instruments, sounds and vocals were coming from. What did I learn? First, Tom knows what he's talking about when it comes to our speakers. Second, because of my space constraints, I have a suboptimal setup (toed-in, speaker to listener height/distance) that really affects the way the speakers perform. Lastly, Thiels reputation for being ruthlessly revealing is well warranted...and may not be "solvable" because in trying to tame some brightness, I felt like I lost some presence and detail. Perhaps I'm not one who enjoys a speaker that "disappears"...maybe what I really enjoy is a reproduction that makes me feel like I hear every instruments' and sections' and singers' position across a stage/studio when I close my eyes. The Thiels are MORE than capable of doing this. I am more than satisfied with this chair and the new, lower listening position. I feel that I've gotten the brightness under enough control, while maintaining the details and presence I didn't realize I loved until I lost some of it. Maybe I'm not making any sense...but, I am enjoying listening to this system and the music! Thanks for all your suggestions and for reading...Hope you're all doing well! Arvin |
I have seen the Carlsbad pair of 3.6 and aside from a woofer dust cap dent they are in incredible shape with absolutely lovely veneer. Local pickup only was offer to me and $400 the pair was quoted. IF someone makes the drive, let me know as I live about 2 miles from store - visit for a listen to music |
