I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model? Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Regarding the outboard filter: i have not tried it but i did write Rob about it around a year ago and this was his response:
Hi
Kent,
This
is very interesting. It is my belief that the crossover has been tweaked by Jim
Thiel, to maximize the frequency response of the coaxial driver. These
additional parts would change the impedance, as well as the intended phase and
time coherence of the speaker. This sounds like a fluke. I think this is just
someone trying to benefit from the closing of THIEL Audio. I am guessing that
for $95, the parts are of low quality, not to mention, the effects that it
would have on the amp and speaker.
About a year ago when I was re-exposing myself to the State of Thiel, I called the guy offering this filter. I judged that he is seeking to smooth out the measured upper midrange squiggles without understanding the nature of those squiggles as low-level reflections from the driver geometries, and therefore in the time domain. I agree with Rob that the "fix" would harm the sonic presentation in Thiel terms of fidelity to the input, even though his frequency response graph would look smoother.
Thank You Ron and Tom for shedding a little light on this subject. I suspect many of us here have viewed that ad on eBay and questioned its effect against our loudspeakers. Hope you guys are well today and enjoying the music.
I would be interested to know if anyone here has evaluated the filter. My opinion is extrapolated from what I see and what he told me - I haven't heard it. Anyone?
I do have a set of sound anchors which may work. they worked for me on my earlier generation Thiels before they came out with the outriggers for the later models
tomic601 Thank You for suggesting Ayre based upon the company's Customer Service track record. Hope Rob returns your call/email soon.Keep us posted once you guys connect. Happy Listening!
Hope everybody enjoyed Easter. Just a new chapter of my Thiel 3.5 Odyssey. For those who did not read the previous thread I burned one tweeter and one midrange of my left cs3.5. Today after one month I finally checked with a new midrange (different model, borrowed) and luckily the speaker works,so the xover is safe! Now I need to change both or get them repaired. ( I am stubborn, I am not going on to YG, Kharma or B&W...) On ebay I found this guy selling a working tweeter (
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254177357767?ul_noapp=true) for 110 Euros which I do not know if it's worth it, but still it leaves out the question: how to fix the midrange? Also I noticed that this midrange was already repaired, by comparing this and the other there are clearly some traces of glue surrounding the dome.... ( I cannot enclose pics). Any advise advise is welcome, options I am thinking are:
Try to repair locally (fast and cheap maybe...), with the risk to damage irremediably both....
Get with Rob to get his advise and a (possibly) quote. This scares me a bit since my last experience with him...
Wait for him and Mr. Thiel to issue the cs3.5 R with a new tweeter, midrange and X/O (gesstimate on timing and cost?).
Dino - I suggest that you contact Rob. Note that if he neglected your prior request, it was not intentional. Rob has the best chance of supplying relevant information for your decision.
Regarding option 3 above: My present work is all preliminary, and I am making parallel progress on various models, measurement models and lab protocols. But a CS3.5R is hypothetical, with no meaningful timing. When it does issue, it will include some valid driver solution such as replacement drivers and/or repair potential.
Unsound & Tomthiel, Thank you. Tom, glad to hear you will eventually be working on the CS3.5 R, so it leaves to me no chance but then repair my gears. So, If unable to fix locally, I will definetively reach out Rob for a preliminary opinion.
I am pretty sure something went wrong but it was not intentional.
Especially if we are talking about a small outfit run by one, or few people, it can be tough juggling the communication part. It's certainly taken some follow up reminders when I've communicated with a number of smaller companies, especially the almost one-man-show type.
dinopau Good to see you again. It would be of interest to learn if Rob has employee(s)? Like so many Audio small business owners, I am sure Rob balances his customers, family and work. Hang in there and keep us posted on your situation. Happy Listening!
tomthiel To your knowledge, does Rob employ an assistant or under-study?It would be very cool if he is teaching his expertise/trade to a future Thiel generation. If I lived closer to Lexington, KY., I would certainly take interest.Hope you are well and having fun in the hot rod garage. Happy Listening!
Rob is a sole proprietor with no employees. Make sure you are using his new phone number (859) 554-9790. When I checked with Miller sound to have my mid-range repaired they warned me that they accepted only if it was personally dropped off as they had bad experiences with mail service and would not warrant the repair if it was mailed.
Perhaps things have changed, but when a dear friend had Thiel CS 2 driver repaired, there were no such caveats. Only prompt, courteous, professional service. Needless to say, he was very pleased with the transaction. The current websites packing instructions seem to suggest mailing as a viable course of action.
Thielrules will be talking about my speakers to Rob sometimes this week or next; he has to fix his two midrages too so I will be waiting for him. I believe the midrange could be repaired, as for the tweeter it looks harder to fix it when it is blown looking on comments on the web....
Hello all, I've been out for a while but I wanted to give you an update on my 3.5 mids. Rob has completed the rebuild (he says the last he is able to do) and has shipped them off to Tom Thiel for analysis. Hopefully this effort will yield a suitable solution for aging 3.5s. BTW, due to the generosity of a fellow Audiogon'r, I have the woofers, tweeters and crossovers from a parted out 3.5. I'm using the mids to replace the Scanspeak mids that came with my 3.5s. In the spirit of the generosity bestowed upon me, I'm willing to help other 3.5 owners that need a replacement driver (woofer or tweeter) for the cost of shipping only. The crossover is available as well, I might want to see if it would be of any use to Tom T as he analyzes the 3.5 for possible upgrades.
bluetone Good to see you again. Hope you are well today. Thank You for providing an update for other 3.5 owners here and citing your experience with Rob at CSS. I know Tom will do his finest in analyzing your drivers. Keep us posted on latest developments. Happy Listening!
Another tidbit of information. As I mentioned, Rob told me this was the last pair of 3.5 mids he can do. Moving forward, here is his response. " From
this point going forward, I will be replacing the CS3.5 mid with the Scan Speak
10F-8424G. Along with a custom adapter plate, and trim ring, it will be
available soon." He said this Scan Speak has the closest specs to the original Scan Speak
I am modeling the old drivers for comparison and compensation in the replacement drivers for their Renaissance-life.
bluetone - the 3.5 drivers and crossovers would be helpful for my modeling efforts. I would offer them for further use once I am finished with them. I also snagged some CS3 drivers and EQ on ebay, and intend to create an update strategy for all versions of CS3 and 3.5 to better than new functioning. If applicable, please PM me to arrange shipping. Thanks.
Tom, the specs look very similar except for the power rating of the 10F, which is at 30 Watt. Any concerns about this? I believe the current mid range was rated at 150 Watt.
Rules - my concern is to thoroughly investigate the parameters and then compensate as necessary. I will develop the Thiele-Small parameters of the old and new drivers to judge how the changes interact with the crossover. Furthermore, since first-order crossovers utilize the midrange over a very broad range, the exact placement and shape of the response anomalies are important. The new crossover must match the response profile of the new driver. All that said, Rob has been shopping for a drop-in replacement and this driver has been recommended to him by knowledgeable sources. Power disparity would matter - 30 watts raises questions, but the 10F is our best present solution. My job is to subject it to further scrutiny.
tomthiel Thank You for your continued hard work and resourcefulness regarding our 3.5 owners. I sent a PM as well. Hope that you are well today and enjoying good music. Happy Listening!
ronkent Absolutely! Lately, the thread has been flabbergasted by all of this cross-over (XO) and driver reinstatement/replacement talk (of course this is perfectly fine and fitting). I wanted to circle back around to anyone here changed or swapped out any Gear? Any Cabling shoot-out(s) going on among you guys?
The CS3.7 XO pic I’ve seen shows good coils but sandcast resistors and CYC MKT caps. The drivers are probably the best ever from Jim Thiel (ie, some of the best ever from any manufacturer) but the passive parts quality is wanting, IMO. If I had 3.7s I would certainly replace the resistors with Mills MRAs which are cost effective, high reward/low risk. Replacing the caps *might* be more risky but I would probably do that, too. There is a LOT of capacitance on that board, so might have to go outboard if replacing everything including the big electrolytics. I would start with the tweeter and midrange caps.
That said, waiting for Tom Thiel’s solution is probably advisable for the less adventuresome.
thanks Beetle, and i am definitely less adventurous. I think that ultimately if there is an outboard crossover where we just hook the speaker cables to it and then wire right to the drivers, that would be something i could do. but they do sound great and part of me is afraid to tinker with them. you do not live in NC by any chance :)
beetlemania Thank You for the CS 3.7 XO network analysis. We have several owners of that model here that may want an upgrade once a working prototype is established. Hope your Spring in Utah is going well. Happy Listening!
Guys - we have learned enough to repeat the successful upgrade that Beetle performed. But we have not yet approached the comparative analysis to find cost-effective performance points. Beetle-level parts cost would exceed $1K, and parts cost is not the whole job. So I believe more work is in order.
tomthiel Absolutely! I will leave this wonderful opportunity to you and the other DIY guys here. Thank You for citing the first price of beetlemania 's work.I am excited and looking forward to the next offered XO upgrade with corresponding price. Feel free to list the cost between different critical parts as progression evolves.
You asked yesterday about about any cable shoot-outs going on, and I'm still in the middle of some testing to find a balanced 1m interconnect to use between my PS Audio Stellar preamp and M700 amps. I'm using the Stellar gear to power my Thiel 2.2 speakers.
After some testing last month with ICs on loan from the Cable Company, I preferred the Cardas Parsec over the Shunyata Venom or the Synergistic Level 2 Core. The Parsec had a good blend of transparency and warmth, while the Shunyata was forgiving and somewhat veiled and the Synergistic was too bright and fatiguing in my system. Unfortunately, the Parsec is out of stock right now, so I'm considering other options in the middle range of the Cardas line of ICs.
Have any Thiel owners had experience with the Cardas Clear Sky, Clear Cygnus, or Clear Reflection ICs? I'm looking for a cable that has reasonable transparency without being bright, a touch of warmth without straying too far from neutral, and solid bass that has impact without being boomy. Above all, I want a cable that is musical and non-fatiguing when used in my Thiel-Stellar system. Any thoughts that might be helpful in my cable quest?
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