Must be a contemorary joke and embarresment at least for the last 28 years here and the country as a whole. Other than Yarmuth who has stood up for the general public for the last 20 years here in the state of Kentucky. Tom
Thiel Owners
Guys-
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
I just scored a sweet pair of CS 2.4SE loudspeakers. Anyone else currently or previously owned this model?
Owners of the CS 2.4 or CS 2.7 are free to chime in as well. Thiel are excellent w/ both tubed or solid-state gear!
Keep me posted & Happy Listening!
13,557 responses Add your response
Unsound - you're right. Tennessee is decidedly the South, where things can move pretty slowly. Kentucky is "a place betwixt and between", with elements of many cultures and none in predominance. Lexington feels like a small cosmopolitan city, whereas Nashville feels like a southern town driven by country music. |
I spoke to Rob on February 21. I ordered paint masks and Thiel logos (they stick on and hide one of the screws) for my Power Points I use as front height channels. I'm going to get the room painted (which is huge as a bunch of rooms connect) probably sometime in the next year or so and wanted to have them on hand. |
There is a new loudspeaker on the scene in the tradition of Time -I’ve read the review and also the interview with the designer but I couldn’t find any reference to it being "time-phase coherent". He did mention the slanted baffle was made to "time align" the tweeter and woofer acoustic center but that does not necessarily mean a "time-phase coherent" design. https://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2019/12/19/59hvvshkumcd2ft8l8oglik1j7r18c Also the woofer seems rather large, probably around 7in., which may have an issue running at a higher frequencies to match the tweeter which is required of the woofer if using first order design. It may explain why most of Thiel designs using smaller than average mid driver. Anyway, my 2cents. |
Good to see you again. Are you building a new loudspeaker?What else is on your radar this Spring season?I've been detoxing :-) I've recently converted a 3-way speakers, that previously was designed with higher order filters, to first order time phase coherent which sounds really good. I am looking to build my own website publishing some of the designs I've made, but so far time has not permitted. |
Andy - the baffle angles are similar because the design parameters are similar. But each takes its own particulars into consideration and yields a slightly different resultant angle. Notice that some models have slight wave-guides which differ from one driver and model to another, determined by target radiation pattern to equalize power response through the crossover. Also, distance between drivers makes a difference. Bottom line is whatever angle produces co-temporaneous arrival time at the design target (about 10' out x 3'up x 10° off axis). The CS2.2 has about 11° baffle tilt, others more and less. |
Rob - please remind me what model speakers you have. The separation that you are describing was, in my day, standard practice. We always separated the twisted pairs to reduce capacitive coupling of the wire runs. Has anyone else noticed whether their runs were parallel or separated? I would like to figure out what's going on. |
Feeling bored ? Would you like to make a FREE improvement to the listening pleasure thru your Thiel speakers ? I went into my speakers to see , take pictures and prepare for the re-wiring of the speakers and crossovers , the wire used by Thiel is 18 awg and is constructed as 2 wire bundles running parallel . I pulled the wire apart seperating them and received a pleasant unexpected surprise , how could doing so little make a detectable difference , yet it did ! Go into your speaker thru the passive radiator and pull or seperate the wire bundles apart , you can reach the incoming from the speaker post , the mid and tweeter up to the first cabinet brace and the bass all the way to the speaker . @tomthiel Since you gave my speaker cable idea a try and found that it offered an improvement you know I'm not being totally crazy with my suggestions. maybe you could try this on one of your speakers that you experiment on. Wash Your Hands Then Listen to the Music Rob |
Arvin - thanks for sharing your synopsis. I'm curious how you landed on 30 - 32" seat height. George - I had hoped you had gotten relief by now! I presently, since December, am struggling with similar symptoms. Reducing electromagnetic fields, especially microwave from wi-fi router and smart electric meter have helped. Brain electro-chemistry is wonderful when it works. Shubert - Yes Dawn is wonderful. You may have "met" her virtually as Thiel's international sales manager from mid 90s to 2013 collapse.Masi- consider trying to stabilize the speaker on the stand. Three coins (back corners and front middle) serves to unitize the speaker with the base. Please report back. Also, small wire gauge can smear the bass. |
I’m also chasing the last 10% with my Thiel CS3.6’S which sit on Sound Anchors stands (about 1”) off the floor. I’m using 1 spike in the front and 2 spikes in the rear for each stand. Right now, the speakers are sitting g on top of the stands with no pucks or spikes or anything. My bass power is there from my Bryston 4Bsst2 amp plugged into a Bryston BIT-15 power conditioner’s high power outlet. Even though the power is there, a little bit of detail retrieval is missing. Any suggestions on further optimizing them would be welcome. |
Hey guys - I would like to share a link that my daughter Dawn sent me for these times of darkness. Music feeds the soul. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph1GU1qQ1zQ&feature=youtu.be |
uncle_monkey Regarding your post and comment about the IsoAcoustics Gaias, I wanted to relay my experience. Give social separating and all, I've been spending time redoing my whole system; I've torn it apart, remade all contacts, isolated components, redressed all wires, repositioned speakers--and finally (after many months of experimenting with speaker position) remounted my CS3.6s onto my Townshend Speaker Isolation Podiums. Since I think they have the same function as the Gaias, I wanted to provide my experience with using the Podiums. Specifically-IMHO and in my room, they provide: -- significantly improved width and depth imaging -- significantly better "disappearing" of speaker positioning -- better low-level detail retrieval -- some lessening of an upper-mid peak present in the 3.6s -- tighter and better defined low-mid-bass with better rhythm & timing (I'm a Naim guy) Along with all those positives is a caveat. My dedicated listening room is on the second floor of my house-so on a suspended wooden floor. I bought the Townshend Platforms primarily in an effort to lessen transmission of low-end bass notes into the house structure (and quiet my wife complaining from downstairs of "the boom"). The isolation platforms significantly reduce this problem, so I can listen louder and later if I want without bothering the rest of the house. Along with all those positives is the fact that the platform's taking away of the floor's significant contribution to the low-end also somewhat lessens the excitement and impressiveness of the bottom end. So while the bottom end is cleaner and faster, it's also a little less impressive since what you're left with is the sound of the speaker alone-devoid of the low-end enhancement and reinforcement from the floor. For me-it's 95% positive using the isolation platforms, but some may find it more of a compromise. (These comments are based on my previously using the supplied spikes.) Since you're lucky enough to have a wood floor over concrete, you may not have the same experience as I did. Hope that helps! I'm going to update my system pics on Audiogon's Virtual Systems Community section to reflect the addition of the podiums and "prettying up" my system, if anyone wants to see the 3.6s on the Podiums. Stay safe everyone! |
Arvin, I think you've expressed the real joy of this hobby. The personal satisfaction of a carefully crafted system, where the pieces have been assembled in a pains taking fashion over time, in many cases over many, many years. The special bliss when the synergy is there to be had and the gear and the music all come together and magic happens. |
Hi @tomthiel, The core of my system remain the Thiel CS 3.5's being fed by two Audio Research D240 MKII solid-state amps (in bridged-mono configuration), with Audio Research tube preamps (LS7 line-stage and PH3 phono). The source I was streaming Tidal from is my Bluesound Vault 2, which has a MQA-capable DAC built-in...most of the files I've been listening to lately are MQA-encoded tracks. As before, my listening area is on the smaller side, probably 14'x10', but thanks to your help, I think I finally was able to nail down my listening height issue...my ears are now about 30"-32" from the floor, depending on how far I lean my chair back. I came to the feeling of satisfaction from two different vantage points...one practical, the other emotional. On the practical side, I finally got the feeling that, if I could never try another/different/new component in my system, I would be okay with it. That I finally had a system that satisfied me with not only how it sounds and how it performs, but also gave me great joy in owning it, great pride in the time and effort it took to acquire the right pieces and put it all together. From an emotional standpoint, it was the realization that I was no longer listening to music...I was experiencing it. When one listens to the greats...be it Miles Davis or Dexter Gordon, Van Cliburn or Horowitz, Clapton or Page, Pet Sounds or Sgt. Pepper's...you should feel wonder and amazement, of feelings that go beyond simply listening and to the emotions that these great artists, and others like them, have when they perform. That's what I had...that's what I finally understood...that for me, Hi-Fi meant feeling the music on an emotional scale more than anything else. And, the only way I got there, was because of this beautiful, seemingly perfect combination of metal, wood, wire and current that moved air in such a way that it stirred emotion. I was satisfied, because I had come to understand what this wonderful hobby meant to me. Could it be better? Sure...I would never delude myself with thinking that it couldn't. But, the more important question I asked myself was, "Did I need it to be better?" And, without hesitation, I am happy with knowing that right now, no...I'm pretty happy with where I'm at! So, Thank You Tom and everyone else for your help, guidance and knowledge. And I hope that this finds you and yours well and safe... Arvin |
Satisfaction... Just spent the last few hours listening to Tidal MQA streams of Dexter Gordon, John Coltrane, Kenny Burrell, Thelonius Monk and others...and I didn't listen to the equipment so much anymore, I just listened to the music. And that music was so right...timbre, pace, rhythm, tone, timing, nuance and brilliance...that I suddenly realized I had built something that I am completely satisfied with. That I was more in a place where making any change would worry me that it could be one that detracts or worsens...that here, right now, I was truly happy in this space. A realization that the dream I had when I was 15 years old of one day, owning a real "audiophile" system had finally come true. Or, it could be just stir craziness creeping in during these crazy times we live in...who knows? But damn...the music is so, so good and it sounds incredible coming out of this thing I put together! Satisfaction indeed... Hope you are all well and are staying safe! Arvin |
I could be wrong but I believe this is the older gentleman I was talking about mentioned in this case -
https://casetext.com/case/warren-v-greenfield
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Tom - I worked in Center City Philadelphia from late 1985 through late 1996. There were two hifi shops nearby. One was Nathan Muchnick which was on a main street and the old guy's store (Greenfields???) was on a side street. Been over 23 years. I really enjoyed hearing his speakers. I have multiple systems today (just don't like selling stuff so most often it gets rotated to a back-up systems) and would really have enjoyed having something like that. |
Cascade - I can't remember his or his shop's name, but I remember playing the first-tier Thiel speakers for him in his shop in 1977. He was complimentary and said he wished he were younger because a new world was unfolding for the young. He showed me his reflective speakers, which pre-dated Bose by many years. Bose had threatened him (cease and desist) and he responded that he would not sue to invalidate Bose's patent if Bose left him alone. And so it was. |
Bose has always been active on the litigation front -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_Corporation I'm not even sure that they were the first with direct reflecting technology in speakers. Many moons ago I worked in Center City Philadelphia. There was an older gentleman who had a small but nice audio shop. He had speakers that had good drivers in them (not cheap ones) and had them near the wall with a piece of plexi-glass reflecting them into the wall. For that type of sound, it was outstanding. There were music celebrities who would visit the store. I believe (to the best of my memory) Bose threatened legal action (and he probably was selling them years before they came out with it) and he just didn't have resources to fight it. Bose is not alone. Many companies with lots of resources flex their muscle. I remember having some brick work done on an old house and the company name was 'Bricks R Us' withe the 'R' backwards and he got a nasty letter from Toys R Us (with the threat of legal action) and on the invoice he went over the backwards R by hand and changed it to a B. Smaller companies, whether it's Thiel or others, are not going to be able to match resources. It's just the way the system works (it's not perfect is necessarily right). I don't like it either and all I can do is not personally buy products from such companies (that's all anyone can do). |
A personal piece of history: Bose made Thiel cease and desist from using the number 2.2 for our second generation model 2, which we renamed the CS2 2, without the decimal point, garnering more publicity and support than any emerging company could ask for.TBH I never forgave Bose for that (being the owner of some 2 2’s). Glad it actually worked in your favor, but I could never see how they could claim infringement on a number system. I doubt seriously they could slide today, what with the advent of the internet and software, everything is 2.x and 3.x. C-Vega “ Strong Like Bull, Smart Like Tractor “A friend had some C-V’s back in the day. We affectionately called them the Gruntpigs. Arvin - floor coupling is, in my experience, a worthwhile endeavor. During development of the 03 In the late 70s, we discovered a new problem attributable to phase/time coherence, of a bothersome upper midrange jitteriness. A cure was to couple the speakers to the wood floor via 3 pins.I’m hoping to get my 2.2’s back to daddy soon, in my new place which I’m frantically readying. In my other setups, I used the cones on pucks when I had suspended hardwood floors, and then the cones directly on carpet so they connected to the sub-floor in an upstairs room. Now, I’ll have them on hardwood over concrete slab, so I figured dig out the pucks again. However I was wondering if anybody has tried anything like the IsoAcoustics Gaia? It seems to me to be the opposite of what you’d want, but an awful lot of people are singing their praises. Thoughts? |
Arvin - floor coupling is, in my experience, a worthwhile endeavor. During development of the 03 In the late 70s, we discovered a new problem attributable to phase/time coherence, of a bothersome upper midrange jitteriness. A cure was to couple the speakers to the wood floor via 3 pins. That solution became part of the product and rubbed off into the general 3rd party stabilizer feet solution. Piercing carpet via spikes also firmed up the bass. However, coupling directly to concrete sometimes produced an undesirable edginess. In my time at Thiel, we supplied invertible pins where the domed end could be used to concentrate the load, significantly smush the carpet, but not penetrate to the underlying floor. A similar effect could be gotten by placing the spikes into small diameter cups of some kind. In the day I had some cups machined from brass (for shows). The top had a pointed-bottom hole to match the pin, and the bottom was a hemisphere about 1/4" diameter. You can buy online brass hemispheres and drill a dimple to capture the point of the pin. |
