The Truth About Power Cords and there "Real" Price to Performance
This is a journey through real life experiences from you to everyone that cares to educate themselves. I must admit that I was not a believer in power cords and how they affect sound in your system. I from the camp that believed that the speaker provided 75% of the sound signature then your source then components but never the power cord. Until that magic day I along with another highly acclaimed AudioGoner who I will keep anatomist ran through a few cables in quite a few different systems and was "WOWED" at what I heard. That being said cable I know that I am not the only believer and that is why there are so many power cord/cable companies out there that range from $50 to 20-30 thousand dollars and above. So I like most of you have to scratch my head and ask where do I begin what brand and product and what should i really pay for it?
The purpose of this discussion to get some honest feed back on Price to Performance from you the end user to us here in the community.
"@turnbowm - which Bryston do you have? - I have the B135 integrated - great value and quality....
....And for components of the quality level of Bryston and LTA, one would need the very best power cables to achieve discernible improvements and that equates to $$$"
In answer to your question, I have the Bryston B60R which I have enjoyed for 19 years. I have tried various audiophile power cables in the past but the B60R doesn't seem to care one way or the other. Perhaps the robustness of the power supplies in Bryston amps explains their indifference.
Now... as another example, (on a smaller scale), let’s look at phono cartridge tweaking. Most phono preamps have/allow for changing capacitors and resistors... either manually or by knobs/switches... that affect the frequency response of the cartridge.
Using the same basic understanding and principals... some companies may use different gauges of wire... different dialectric insulators... different metals... and different sheilding, to manipulate electrons of a power cord, (or interconnect or speaker cable), to a sound that they prefer.
Some individuals will prefer this "house sound" , while others won’t... and even others won’t hear a difference due to ear shape, or ear damage.
While I have no foundational argument for what I am about to say... I might even suggest that using the above mentioned methods might even cause a phase shift... with the end result requiring a speaker placement change.
And no... I’m not smoking or drinking anything. Just a theory based on subtle changes and experimentation with my setup.
I used one one for years without worry. It looks like a disaster ready to happen, but if you have a child/pet free environment, it works. Naturally YMMV.
Reality, if there were problems with this cord, I would think Pierre would have taken it off the site years ago.
The clear,candy wrapper insulation was getting beat up, and the scotch tape repairs became too much.
Speaking with a Mapleshade guy years ago, he said Pierre prefers them WITHOUT the insulation! Now that's freakin manly!!
You are trying to take complex things that happen in 3 dimensional sound field that is time variant and apply that to an simple electrical signal with absolutely no proof of the claims you effectively make about said electrical signal
A two channel initially mechanical system, i.e. the ear, with a 20khz bandwidth, if you are lucky, can detect microsecond timing differentials ... Just like two microphones with a 20khz bandwidth digitized at 44.1Khz can resolve microsecond time of arrival differences. This is very well understood and done day in and day out with all manner of signals. There is no magic, there is no unknown branch of physics not yet understood, and even if we don’t understand all the neural pathways that does not change the fact that our hearing starts as a mechanical system that has not been shown to extend in bandwidth past 20Khz. Even experiments that indicated potential detection of ultrasonics were not able to show ultimately that it was not subharmonic resonances that were detected.
Your statement about us not having the hardware for electrical fine signal analysis required for human acoustic testing is simply not supportable. That claim is based on misunderstandings and knowledge gaps such as the belief that 44.1Khz (or 192Khz) digitization cannot carry within subsample, microsecond timing information. It can, within the bandwidth of the hearing system. Couple a flawed understanding of digitized and reconstructed analog signals and the information they carry and the potential for a bandwidth limited system to provide detection capability much faster than that bandwidth and you get the statements below which are not based in facts nor supportable with anything passing for evidence.
We don’t have any hardware available to us that can come close to that level of auditory or electrical signal fine analysis.
Holy Guacamole! No sooner do I mention Cargo Cultists one of them shows up! Wow! Was that a coinkidink or what? Deprogrammers are standing by. You have to love it when someone says something is “not even remotely debatable for an educated mind.” Isn’t that some sort of tip-off?
I posted this on another thread, on another forum. It’s not perfectly accurate but accurate enough for folks to get the gist of what is going on re hearing vs measurements:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It’s not that we hear out to 20khz, it is the 17,500-23,500 cilia in the ear, and how they move in a complex inter related 3-D dance of motion, over time, how each responds with the firing of a neuron, over time. Imagine that many click channels, where each motion of any kind, causes a click in each, and then each click is inter-related to the other clicks, individually and cumulatively. And then analyzed as a record, over time and decoded over time, in the minutia, by the neural components that are tied to the hearing mechanism. What I mean is that they are physically related in motion, and thus interrelated physically, in the generation of a ’click’ (neural signal firing)
So the inter-relations, easily get into the complex microsecond level flowing relations. They are all time related (firing order, and cycling) to one another in the neural analysis, in the absolute sense. There is a fluid in there, in a sac, one might say and we get traveling waves in it and in the sac surface, and the cilia are activated according to the flow patterns on what you might think of as a balloon, with the cilia inside it. So, yes, 3d flow patterns in a fluid sac, over time, with hairs throughout it, like a set of hair/fibers. Neurally connected hairs. About 20k of them. The number of ways that a signal can be created via a physical distortion impinging upon that .....is stupidly high. Crazy high. Incalculably high.
It’s got nothing whatsoever to do with sine wave signals from a signal generator, or what not. That idea is a thousand fold, a million fold joke... compared to the power and fine signal generation within and subsequent analysis capacity of the human ear.
We don’t have any hardware available to us that can come close to that level of auditory or electrical signal fine analysis.
Then we get to the question of physical ability through individual physical build. That we are all different than one another and this hearing function follows the same path as IQ differentials across a set of individuals. Some extreme ear capacities vs ..uhm..not so good hearing capacities.
we can lose the ability to hear out to 20khz, but retain the ability to hear microsecond timing differentials in complex waveforms, as that is the basic function of the ear design that is there, if there is any decent hearing function quality left at all (aged ears). Then, we’ve got TWO of them, also inter-related. The ear is an extreme machine, undoubtedly so.
Essentially, there is no delusion. None.
You hear what you hear and the hardware utilized to try and analyze that, is woefully deficient, as is the current engineering mindset involved in the measuring.
One can argue the validity and usefulness of what is heard. But that the ear is superior to the mindset of measuring, at this time? This is not even remotely debatable, for an educated (on this subject) mind.
“In the South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same thing to happen now. So they've arranged to imitate things like runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas—he's the controller—and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land.[1]” - Richard Feynman
Feynman cautioned that to avoid becoming cargo cult scientists, researchers must avoid fooling themselves, be willing to question and doubt their own theories and their own results, and investigate possible flaws in a theory or an experiment. He recommended that researchers adopt an unusually high level of honesty which is rarely encountered in everyday life, and gave examples from advertising, politics, andpsychologyto illustrate the everyday dishonesty which should be unacceptable in science.
I have been using Triode Wire Labs cables for several years simply because they are the best sounding cables my system has ever known. They are exceptionally well made and Pete has always been a pleasure to deal with. Great sound and tremendous value, it is no surprise these cables are now being part of the finest systems assembled. A must try. PS: if someone still thinks there is no such thing as great sounding cables and poor sounding cables I suggest they reconsider their devotion to this hobby... save your money and enjoy your car radio. Just my 2 cents.
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So do any of you think that a 99.999% pure silver braided, shielded, twisted, cold-press or silver soldered-in-an-argon-chamber, oxygen free / techflex-skinned, 3M heatshrink covered cable on elevators made from African Panke-baobab-wood harvested by bearded millennial vegan artisans from 2400 year-old trees is going to make an audible difference going that last 6-10 feet from your A/C wall outlet into your gear’s IEC port?"
Farther up on this thread or maybe another I have expressed my views on "cords". I think you will find my views often similar to yours but more nuanced.
I have two runs of heavy gauge to a split outlet, same phase for both with grounds tied. Predates ACFI/GFCI. Was discussing on another thread. I can't even get the type of breaker I used any more.
Silver wire, etc , is marketing, hence why no validated testing. Heavy ground, heavy gauge for amps, good shielding all beneficial ... Most of the time. For some equipment, arguably, resistance helps .... less AC noise and EMI.
Equipment to equipment grounds are arguably most critical and there are much cheaper ways of fixing that. If someone puts heavy capacitance from DC circuit ground to chassis ground, then things get dicey.
We’re talking cords AND house wiring - as they are all part of the same feed line into one’s gear - unless you use batteries or other gear as I previously mentioned (like a power conditioner, caps, batteries, transformers, chokes, etc.)
Most people cannot control the house wiring. Most folks are running their systems on a 15A circuit with ~50 feet of 14AWG Romex copper. That same circuit for most also powers a bunch of lights, ceiling fans and AC outlets that your significant other might plug a vacuum cleaner into.
I have dedicated 12AWG Romex runs to all of my audio gear with 20A breakers (modern code requires AFCI and GFCI, so I run CAFCI (AFCI/GFCI all-in-one).
So do any of you think that a 99.999% pure silver braided, shielded, twisted, cold-press or silver soldered-in-an-argon-chamber, oxygen free / techflex-skinned, 3M heatshrink covered cable on elevators made from African Panke-baobab-wood harvested by bearded millennial vegan artisans from 2400 year-old trees is going to make an audible difference going that last 6-10 feet from your A/C wall outlet into your gear’s IEC port?
dimora, Did you know the instaneous voltage drop on a 50 foot run of 12awg can reach 3-4 volts when you get the 30+ amp peaks of some power amplifiers? You had not mentioned whether you were discussing cords or house wiring at that point as well, and you have brought up the other wire as well.
More critical to the gauge of the wire in the cords would be quality of the equipment to equipment ground connections. There has also been real evidence of noise on AC lines coupling into signal lines in "typical" audio setups, so shielding also makes sense.
You will note I have not said either way that cords can or cannot produce audible differences, but long runs of Romex can in amplifiers depending on how well their power supplies are designed, and it is a poor assumption that boutique audio amplifiers and other equipment is well designed.
Of course, that had nothing to do with the GT audioworks speakers working reasonably well in typically awful trade-show rooms, nor the designer undertstanding how to get the most out of his speakers in that situation .. nor all the other good quality components?
Best of show is like having a least ugly dog show. You have different grades of awful and best sound is far more indicative of a particular speakers interaction with a room, and/or how much effort the exhibitor is willing to put into ad-hoc room treatments. I have heard $250K+ systems sound awful at shows, and $20K systems sound stunning.
The entire setup with the Pass XS gear feeding the GT Audioworks speakers were all Triode Wire Labs obsession power chords on the amps and TWL speaker cables and interconnects - this resulted in the best sound at show- don’t believe me read Herb Reichert’s review on Stereophile where he said that this system can go toe to toe with cost no object systems. Thanks Pete great product at an unbeatable value in all of high-end audio.
JS: Unearned money can be from a number of sources...inheritance for instance.
MAM says:
I began with the CD (OPPO-105) connected to my power conditioner using the stock cord. The sound was unlistenable.
I have an OPPO-105 and I use the stork cord. I have never, not even once, thought it put out audio that was unlistenable. At one time the 105 was the most popular disc player on the market...tested with a stock cord. My, your ears must be very picky....or a fan of high dollar accessories. Confirmation bias?
Imagine if I made two cords to prove my point that have the following construction:
3 feet of 12AWG Romex that plugs into your wall outlet with a Marinco or Wattgate plug...or even wired directly to your mains box.
The other end of that Romex would go into a junction box. Inside that junction box will be a Marinco or Wattgate 3 prong plug that plugs into a hospital grade outlet (which is wired to the Romex) and coming out of that box would be 3 feet of a fancy twisted pair, cryo treated silver conductor, blah blah blah cord that terminates in an IEC plug that goes into your gear.
The second box would be Romex all-the way. Same junction box. Same plugs. Same outlet. Just 6 total feet 12AWG Romex all the way to your gear.
Are any of you willing to tell me you could hear a difference? Because that is how your house is wired.
I am confident nobody could not pass an A:B comparison noticing any difference with any consistency.
You have "mains feed" into your breaker or fuse box at your listening location.
From there, you have a breaker or fuse that protects the circuit. That breaker or circuit is sized according to the amperage of the circuit you will run off that breaker.
The AWG wire sizes I listed are the minimum electrical code standards for circuits of the listed amperage. There is potentially a very LONG run of Romex that goes from that breaker / fuse box to your AC outlet. Then you have the outlet itself. (I recommend a hospital grade outlet simply because they are robust and grip your cord tightly.)
Thinking that the last six feet of wiring after the outlet makes a difference after all of that...and thinking you can hear a difference...is crazy - unless the cable is doing something other than just transmitting the power (such as a choke / filter or power conditioning system).
Things like a Furman, PanaMax or Monster cable power conditioner DO make a difference...because they have filters and chokes that CLEAN the power. An Emotiva CMX-2 DOES make a difference because it filters and eliminates DC offset.
Silver cords, braided cords, excessively oversized cords, etc. don't do a darn thing that is audible unless they have a choke or filter in the cable.
A cord that is too small for the current draw will actually get hot and be a safety hazard.
I would like to thank blumartini for inviting me to participate in this "so far" civil discussion. I rarely, if ever, participate in discussions like this since some "experts" cannot (or refuse to) understand how power cables can make a "difference" in sound quality.
As I perused through the responses, I noticed quite a few assumptions & opinions that, IMHO, are inaccurate, such as "Good Shielding is never going to hurt a power cord"... yes, good shielding but not "traditional shielding"... Traditional shielding, that most cable manufacturers choose to use, is detrimental to sound reproduction. It adds capacitance to the cable, which results in a duller, lifeless, less dynamic power cable... I would never use traditional shielding in Triode Wire Labs products for that reason. Some innovative methods of obtaining a great sounding cable can involve advanced cable geometry, use of piezoelectrics as well as advanced shielding materials that do not add capacitance to a cable...
Everything makes a difference. Yes, that is true... Yes, the receptacle you connect your power cables to can make a noticeable difference. (Please note I wrote "difference" not "Improvement").
Power cables can make a significant difference and "improvement" in sound quality. Recently (two weeks ago), I participated in FIVE rooms at the Capital AudioFest, providing the entire cable looms. I partnered with manufacturers & distributors, such as Vinnie Rossi, Gigawatt, Innuos, Daedalus Audio, Volti Audio, BorderPatrol, PI AudioGroup, Esoteric, QLN, Well Pleased A/V, GT Audio Works, Sound Insights, Pass Labs, etc. In the large Frederick Room, we had Pass Labs "best" gear... XS-150 mono blocks ($65K), XS preamp ($38K) & XS phono preamp ($45K)... Yes, placing my power cords on the Pass Labs gear made a significant improvement in sound quality... I did have the opportunity to "A-B" test the XS phono preamp in my "test set-up" at my Lab and the results were similar to many other preamps I tested. Yes, power cables can make an "improvement" in sound quality.
I'd like to also add that Triode Wire Labs offers a 30-day trial period, money-back guarantee on all its cable products... I believe blumartini stated that only one manufacturer offered that...
As far as my top of the line "Obsession NCF" power cable (6 ft. - $1399), I'd like to point out that it uses the expensive ($385 each connector ($770 of connectors per cable)) & incredible sounding Furutech FI-50 NCF series of connectors. The "Obsession NCF" competes with and exceeds performance of cables costing multiple times as much... money-back guarantee! Here's Jay's review... https://audiobacon.net/2019/08/17/27-audiophile-power-cables-reviewed/15/
In all of Triode Wire Labs products, there's exceptional value, since all TWL's products are directly-marketed with very low overhead costs.
I'd like to thank Jay Luong for his incredible review of power cables, which much have been very exhausting... and to blumartini once again for inviting me to provide my $0.02...
@turnbowm - which Bryston do you have? - I have the B135 integrated - great value and quality.
I find your approach is very sound (’scuse the pun)...
So, I purchased one of the better performing (and more expensive) cords for my Ayre and another inexpensive cord for the LTA, saving myself several hundred dollars in the process."
And for components of the quality level of Bryston and LTA, one would need the very best power cables to achieve discernible improvements and that equates to $$$
My experience has been that (most) all components will benefit from a better power cable.
Since I make my own cables that use a Helix cable geometry (i.e. I do not simply add connectors to bulk cable) and I use them on all my components, so I did not even try the stock power cable that came with my Bryston. - But it looked pretty standard, so I do believe it would impact the overall sound - to some extent.
Selection of "the right cable" is the challenge and most of the brands out there are not up to this task.
One brand I do regard as "worthy" for amps of this quality is Nordost. - Even so, I would probably select one of their higher end models.
As always, it all depends on how much one is willing to spend on this insane hobby.
Not to rain on your parade, but if your test had been made blind, i.e. you had no clue what cord was attached at any point in time, your test would have validity. You may think you have superhuman hearing, but you could have just as easily proved confirmation bias as you did sound differences.
My power cord test involved a good-quality CD player (Oppo 105) and a good-quality set of headphones (Sennheiser HD800.) The CD player has a headphone output, and so I chose a familiar CD and listened to the sound quality from each power cord in the test. The PC was the only variable in a controlled test. My sound quality target was what I was used to hearing through my Woo Audio WA22 headphone amplifier with a set of premium NOS tubes (such as the WE421 power tubes.)
I began with the CD connected to my power conditioner using the stock cord. The sound was unlistenable. Of course, it's easy to blame the headphone output in ANY component, especially inexpensive ones. Then I moved up the power cord food chain, starting with the least-expensive PC from a small shop that cost $75 - a noticeable improvement, but still pretty dreadful sounding.
I made a series of moves to higher costing PCs that I had accumulated in my quest for truth, using better small-shop offerings that cost $150 to $250. To my surprise, the sound quality from the headphones was now quite listenable. If I had to live with this limited headphone system, this CD player and power cord would be all I needed. Total cost: $3K.
When I moved up to the expensive category of commercial PCs ($1,000 to $3,000 - which I buy at 1/2 retail or less) the sound quality improved by another significant amount. It now started to sound like the reference sound from the headphone amplifier.
So, there you have it: a "poor-man's test" of the effect of power cords. When it's the only variable, the results can only be attributed to the power cord - or to one's own delusions.
Worry not: the Woo still won the day, but it was because of a better output mechanism and quality amplification that provide the delivery of the more nuanced qualities that separate good sound from really excellent sound. Unfortunately, that move costs a lot of money. And as someone already pointed out, the money should go first to better components and not to a better power cord.
Not sure what your correct gauge for the circuit is supposed to convey. I am not arguing one way or the other, I just don't see the relevance. Peak currents on the AC waveform can be higher than average rating to AC waveform modulation at the equipment can happen. Obviously the run breaker box to wall plug is more important as is equipment to equipment ground. Again, not saying the cord will make a difference, just don't think that statement about gauge and current is relevant.
The power cord doesn’t matter as long as the gauge is correct for your circuit. 15A circuit = 14AWG 20A circuit = 12AWG 30A circuit = 10AWG
You can use hospital grade outlets if you want a good, solid connection from your cord to the outlet.
Spend your extra money on a power conditioner / re-generator / filter. Those actually matter and *can* make an audible difference if you have noisy AC power. If you have coax service (Cable TV) into your system you may have buzzing / ground loops on your sub; fiber optic/Toslink can break that ground loop, as can a nice filter on your coax.
The above information is real-world vs. all the cable voodoo nonsense I see on here.
@mikepowellaudio: Interesting marketing technique. However if you are a professional, I’d opine that you need to tone it down a bit. You really think forum members from around the world are going to stop their lives and come to your home in Atlanta just because you are hosting a test?
I get it, you know we won’t, can’t, don’t want to or just have no interest. Here’s an idea...raise your price ten times. There are forum members here who will buy for no other reason than an accessory is outlandishly expensive.
Talk is cheap. I design power cords. Who wants to finally get off your ass and double blind shootout ?. Lets get to the bottom of this lame ass argument that has been going on since the beginning of time. If your cable beats mine, it ,means power cords work and Ive done the industry a huge favor. We can end the conversation and move on to speaker cables, and interconnects until the whole talk is over as far as cables go. Anyone can join the party, does not have to be other designers, you can rep your favorite designer if you like. So we can find out which cable is best I guess ...yippee,,, it will be expensive im sure. That does not matter to the marketplace as much as whose is best for the least amount of money ? I’ll bet I win this Title and if a $300 cable beats mine, then we will vote for whose cable looks the most unique and innovatiove regardless of anything else.. I got a solid foot in on that one. .. My 5 foot cord is $800. I will start here, the same thing in pure solid 5N silver within my line is $1500. If we really want to get down, Im sure I can cheapify my cable and maintain performance. Both are bargain by Audiopohile standards. No audio show shootouts as the acoustics are crappy at best. I’ll do this at my house in Atlanta GA. If nobody wants to blind test, I’ll do it with local audiophile buddies and record it with high grade microphones and post it to youtube. Its time for all us to pull up our dang panties and put this to rest by the REAL way, blind testing, I could care less if I win or not, I just dont want this damn drivel all the time around my sacred place, the HiFi Hobby. dont any of you feel like you are taking part in a whiny pissant discussion when your job is to be listening to music, discovering wonderful new styles and albums by sharing with one another your findings, and paying homage to the reason this website even exists ??? Its MUSIC ! Remember that one thing ??.. You all are off in the weeds wasting precious time and not listening to music and enjoying all the cool things it can do for us .... Wake up Audiophiles, this is MUSIC calling...
I often wondered why most power cord/cable companies out there don't put there money where their mouth is?
Most all of us cant walk up to a showroom with your amp or components and audition cables the way you can with speakers amps etc. So whats the next best thing? I found 1 yes only 1 so far that puts his money where his mouth in and backs now with a 60 day money back customer satisfaction guarantee! NRG Custom Cables is one of the 27 Audiophile power cord company Jay Luong reviewed.
NRG Custom Cables’s motto is: “Design by Math & Science – Not by Marketing.” Interesting.
I loved the idea so much I personally am going to try them on 3 different amps and A Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner as well as direct to the wall!
The amps are all different amp 1. is Class A/B Amp. 2. Is Class A/B//Tube Hybrid and Amp. 3. Will be all Tubes!
The test might be after thanksgiving as I will be traveling but I thing it will be worth it.
Love it when a manufacture believes in his product so much they Guarantee it or your money back!
Have to disagree. Your greatest determinants are your speakers and room, followed by your TT setup if you are doing vinyl, and then your amp.
limbc2 posts11-15-2019 7:00pmIf you hv ultra deep pockets, its nice luxury to spent BIG sums on hifi to get closer to ' true' sound. Even then, u can get the most value only if u balance yr spent. Yr power cable shd preferably be at 10-20% of yr total spent. As
there is only so much a great power cord can do. The greatest
determinants of SQ will be yr amps n speakers, followed by the other
peripherals. But yes, choosing the best sounding and best value
power cord /cable within a defined range of budget is still very tough
without A/B test. That's where perhaps experienced audiogons can help.
Rgds.
Perhaps the "venom" isn't that at all. Maybe it is realists trying to keep the forum playing field level for newbies just tuning in. Some here will say a $4000 power cord will provide "jaw dropping" sound quality improvements. I do not believe that is scientifically possible; nor have I ever heard a power cord or any tweak provide "jaw dropping" anything. Accordingly, I have said so on this forum. Newbies need to know that those "audiophiles" here with their jaws dragging on the floor are not necessarly accurate...and, in their proclamations, need to, more often, use the words "in my opinion."
When I started to get back in the hi fi audiophile game one of the first things I noticed that even very expensive gear had stock ’lamp (shade) grade’ power cords and I read somewhere that ’oxygen free’ cable were better and I’ve been upgrading ever since. Sometimes without any need for A/B testing if something looked, well cheap.
I also think that anyone can be an ’experienced audiophile’ when you start spending your hard earned money on hi fi gear and somehow you think it’s ’disposable income’.:) In my humble opinion of course.
If you hv ultra deep pockets, its nice luxury to spent BIG sums on hifi to get closer to ' true' sound. Even then, u can get the most value only if u balance yr spent. Yr power cable shd preferably be at 10-20% of yr total spent. As there is only so much a great power cord can do. The greatest determinants of SQ will be yr amps n speakers, followed by the other peripherals. But yes, choosing the best sounding and best value power cord /cable within a defined range of budget is still very tough without A/B test. That's where perhaps experienced audiogons can help. Rgds.
I saw the same at usedcable.com and used TO ME - is affordable. Also on the Synergistic Research website there are different levels of power cords and as audiophiles upgrade there are bound to be ones available for resale on sites such as hifi shark. This maybe good news to some looking to try
Synergistic Research power cords.
@fastfreight
If your Synergistic Research Atmosphere level 2 (20 amp) power cord performed as well as you say it did ’new’, would you please report back after the burn/run in period. I think we here would really be interested in your responses then too!
I don't think Price to Performance if i can get 3,,,4, % better i will buy it. Problem i have , Can i afford the product i can't buy 10 k wire so i buy a Cable that has the word "Clear" in it's Model
Mike Morrow asked me to post this. He was one of the 27 cord companies Jay Revied.
Regarding power cords, we at Morrow Audio also do not fully understand howthe last few feet from the wall outlet to the equipment can make a difference. But, it is a real thing that can be heard. My personal noticeis that most power cords that come with equipment are made of poor quality copper, so replacing with a good qualitycord will make a difference. There is also a lowering of the impedance when using higher gauges, providing a betterpower transfer to the equipment. The connectors are likewise of much higher quality than the equipment manufacturerprovides, again providing better contact and power transfer. RFI can likewise influence, this lessened with propertwisting of the wires like in our power cords. All these things add up, providing the sonic changes and improvementsthat one hears. - Mike Morrow
Vista1868 commented about system quality symmetry with interconnects should equate likewise with power cords.
A quality, clear stream of power coming into a component is not the same as a signal stream from that component. In fact, in simple terms, it only empowers the component’s ability to do what it can...nothing less and nothing more. It will not emphasize its flaws. As for an excellent power cord regardless of price, check out Grover Huffman’s. I’ve tried several cords and his performs just as well as the high cost standards by Audience, Nordost, Audioquest, and the other usual suspects. It’s true. http://www.groverhuffman.com/powercords
For those that care... In 2018 /2019 I made an investment into computer audio. I have been skeptical about the benefits vs limitations of the technology. I had a Mac Mini Modified with a separate power supply, and external clock. My overall impression was that it was O.K. it did not sound half as good as my CDP set up but it sounded respectable for the 4k I put into it.
Out of curiosity I decided to hook up a Stage 3 Concepts Kraken to the Mac Mini set up. There was a moment of disbelief as it sounded almost as good as the CDP.
The difference was not subtle and was by far the best I have ever heard computer audio sound. It only took a Power Cable twice the total investment cost to get the Mac Mini to perform and exceed expectations.
I have been putting my new basement system together for a couple of years now, and have recently upgraded interconnects and power cable. My system: PS Audio Direct Stream DAC w Bridge, wired to router > PS BHK Pre > PS BHK 250 stereo amp > B&W N802's > Stereo Paradigm Studio 15 Subs. Direct line to my PS Audio Power Port Receptacle. Balanced interconnects and Power Cords from Mark Tunis in Florida, all custom made using silver clad wire. they are moderately inexpensive for the quality and were a noticeable improvement over the stock power cords and cheap interconnects. So now that I had settled in with my equipment, I decided to try some 'nicer' interconnects. I first tried to sets of nicer balanced XLR interconnects. AQ Colorado, and Shunyata Black Mamba. I tried these because they were on close out at Music Direct, I could try and return, and they were not stupid expensive. I loved the Shunyata's, and did not like the AQ Colorado's. The Black Mambas improved EVERYTHING in my system. Bass, imaging, soundstage, resolution and WARMTH. So I sent back the AQ and have the Shunyata Black Mambas and big improvement for a good deal at 300 a pair. To me that is great price to performance. But this is a power cable post.. I also recently got an Inakustik 3500p power conditioner. New company, again not stupid expensive at around $3000, great reviews... and it improved my system again. But it came with a stock power cable, so..... I talked to Steven at The Cable Company, and he suggested I try a Synergistic Research Atmosphere level 2 (20 amp). I would have never been drawn to this type of name and technology, and perhaps by reading all the negativity about cables in general it is easy to believe it does not matter that much and stupid to upgrade. But all I can say is WOW. Listened last night for hours with my lady, going back and forth with the stock cord and the SR cord from the wall to the 3500p conditioner. Changed nothing else. Again, what an improvement. Heard little tingly things in familiar songs that I had not heard before. Imaging spot on, soundstage wider and deeper. Clearer. Stock cable sounded muffled. Bass and Midrange fuller. Everything. So a 1200 cable? (demo at a big discount) I would have never thought it was worth it. Value to cost? Totally worth it. I guess I have about a $20,000 system and can think of no other upgrade for this cost that has the bang for the buck. And I plug everything into the 3500p. Just my experience, sorry for long post! Anyone around Balt / Washington want to get together a listen? Ken.
I’m thoroughly convinced that there arrives a point of diminishing returns, to an even exponential degree.
It’s relative to your budget and level of control over a space, I suppose? But in my humble setup ....after getting all my interconnects up to decent cabling, I simply upgraded the outlet in the wall feeding my system and paid just $90 for a Wireworld power cable for my Creek, huge difference. Enough so that spending any more may only make things different...not better. The only other major improvement would have to be completely changing the room itself, which is a non-option at this point. And I’m ok with that, as I’m ecstatic at the idea that I’ve constructed an EXCELLENT sounding setup with a very limited allotted budget. That in itself is the glorious result. I would feel the complete opposite if I’d spent a small fortune on only a slightly more effective piece of copper laden in wrapping and jewelry to receive a marginal, even questionable improvement.
I second
kudelka8. I use full loom of Lithuanian cables as well. I strongly recommend you try them. The name is Lessloss. Best price/performance ratio.
I have been into hifi for circa 30 years in that time I have never changed the power cords.
This year I have had a revaluation buying several Mark Grant cables at £75 each and a power block at £150 not a massive outlay but huge benefit. No other changes to my system it just worked beautifully.
System is Melco streamer into exposure dac to Croft epoch elite and croft twin star 1 power amp and piega classic 40.2 speakers with LFD speaker cables.
I feel very lucky to have such a great sound at home.
Any kind person have a link to where the Master Coupler is $250? Everything I've found searching online appears to be $500 plus and used...
Wow. I paid $175 for mine, but that was back around 1993 when full retail was around $300. I saw ones a while back on here which is where I got my figures from, but I'm not really in the market. The $500 may have been the Anniversary Edition. I know the original Master Couplers like mine are really good. Not that hyped hifi sound that is so common, but truly well-balanced. Not as good as newer Synergistic but awfully good compared to just about anything else.
At $500, if it was me, I'd start looking at whatever newer Synergistic that would get me. Even back in the day, I have Synergistic Designers Reference which for sure is a whole lot better. Also for sure their newer is better. Synergistic is unique in this regard. Its simply a question of price.
Take your time, keep looking, and give serious consideration to anything Synergistic around $500, be it Blue tech or CTS or Active or whatever. The downside of Active, some of them depending on when they were made used MPC wall warts. Some don't care for the extra wires. But the neat thing about Active Shielding, Michael Spallone does a killer cap and diode upgrade that elevates everything to an even higher level.
If all else fails PM me, I'll sell you one of mine, use the $$ to upgrade to even better SR.
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