The Truth about Modern Class D
Boooomm!! thar she blows, your https://youtu.be/YTY26k0CA0I?t=5 You named this thread "The Truth about Modern Class D" like you had some secrete insight to something special about Class-D, that no-one else knows, there isn’t sunshine. And I didn't revitalize ****, it was a 2 poster markw1951 |
@georgehifi Looking forward to your complete retraction of your false claims regarding Class D and output phase. I will be kind and suggest that you going "wow, I'm sorry, that was incorrect" is going to be a lot easier on you than me writing up a post about why it's wrong. Really, fixing your own mistake is going to give you character. Kisses |
Still can’t see the forest for the trees yourself, parroting BS spoon fed to you by others, probably that have commercially involved instead of looking for yourself. Put them on the bench yourself and see, if you even have or know how to use bench test gear, which I strongly doubt very much the way you carry on. Over and out |
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George " Put them on the bench yourself and see, if you even have or know how to use bench test gear, which I strongly doubt very much the way you carry on." I don’t care WHAT the bench test are, or say. I care what my ears say. The dynamics, the floor, impact at nice volumes. I get this theory from my 20 years of racing cars. NHRA Superstock. Horsepower is everything right? Wrong. Its the "package" of all the parts together that counts. And those dynos we test our engines on mean nothing. They ( sometimes) lie. They are just a test. A benchmark so to speak. The REAL test is the time ticket, the results. Bottom line, am I, or anybody else, going to be able to hear this issue you keep harping on? |
intrawert6 posts02-24-2020 6:10pmWhat’s up with GaNfet? Let’s discuss new items. I think this year will be a breakthrough, thanks to new technologies. Gan fets are definitely the future for Class-D or any class, if their used to their fullest like Technics did with the SE-R1 higher switching speed (1.5mhz) and higher output filter to suit, so there none of the problems it has now. But the SE-R1 is >$20k The ones around now using GaN’s are either dinky little office type class-D’s or expensive ones that haven’t utilized the technology as far as Technics did. New ones from https://www.classdaudio.com maybe will be good for the money, but I don't believe they went as far as Technics did with it. this is the GaN site https://www.premium-audio.com/ Cheers George |
If anyone is interested the Technics SE-R1 is $17,000 not > $ 20,000. https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Technics/Technics-SE-R1-Stereo-Power-Amplifier |
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This statement is false. The Technics amplifier is only 150 watts, which is similar power as many of its GanFET competition.I’m not talking about wattage Ralph, and you know that very well, give up and try not to go into product protection mode, when ever GaN is mentioned. And the $20K I mentioned for the Technics SE-R1 is around the Au $ price |
Hmmm, just wondering if it is OK if I continue to enjoy the performance of my Bel Canto amp in my system. @mlsstl To hear George tell it, you have to put it on a test bench, and after looking at the scope's output, you'll suddenly realize .... I don't know what. Actually I have no idea what his point is. |
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I’m not talking about wattage Ralph, and you know that very well, give up and try not to go into product protection mode, when ever GaN is mentioned.This comment does not make sense when compared to The ones around now using GaN’s are either dinky little office type class-D’s or expensive ones that haven’t utilized the technology as far as Technics did.'Dinky' in this part of the world means 'small'. And since you chose to make the usual ad hominem attack, can you get it that we've been working with GaNFETs in most of our prototypes except the very early ones? Why not, they're quite inexpensive! |
’Dinky’ in this part of the world means ’small’. Like I said you know exactly what I mean, and yes it means the same in Au. I’m talking about dinky ones the size of cigarette packet, some that can do 120w sometimes with external wall wart smp supplies, some that are shilled on these Audiogon pages. I would bet the 54kg Technics SE-R1 would eat them alive same wattage. at 8ohm |
I’m talking about dinky ones the size of cigarette packet, some that can do 120wMaybe something you don't understand is that the size of a class D circuit board says little about its power. They have to be small in order to keep radiated noise down. So traces are short (less inductance), there are usually at least 4 layers in the board and so on. So a board that is the size of a pack of cigarettes is that way even if it can make more power. Most circuit boards (modules) employ ICs to do most of the class D functions- comparator, drivers for the outputs, high side switches and so on. This helps them be more compact and so less noisy. Our prototype boards make 100 watts and despite being relatively discreet (no dedicated chips) its smaller than a pack of cigarettes too. That's just common sense on the engineering side. I'm sure the actual Technics amplifier circuit is quite compact as well- my guess is that because of its very high switching speed, its even more compact! |
Maybe something you don't understand is that the size of a class D circuit board says little about its power Ralph you've been in the sun too long mate. I understand fully Ralph what you are saying to me, two GaN amps below the same 8ohm wattage. You are saying this 0.9kg 150w Gan amp https://orchardaudio.com/bosc Will not be shamed by this Technics SE-R1 54kg 150w GaN amp https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/ce/1a/e1ce1a9c552aa57530ad2804c9067800.jpg Sorry Ralph pull the other one it plays jingle bells🤦♂️ |
"....it plays jingle bells." Damn....how tragic. Hope your voice survived.... Well, until someone somewhere puts these two competing amps between a pair of quality speakers with ditto level cables....and source up to par to the task.... It remains conjecture, and opinion. The 'referee' has already rang the bell once, with a warning to the combatants.... It's still summer in AU...right? |
atmasphere7,984 posts02-26-2020 3:39am The ones around now using GaN’s are either dinky little office type class-D’s or expensive ones that haven’t utilized the technology as far as Technics did.This statement is false. The Technics amplifier is only 150 watts, which is similar power as many of its GanFET competition. asvjerry Well, until someone somewhere puts these two competing amps between a pair of quality speakers with ditto level cables....and source up to par to the task.... Really?? your cred if any just took a big dive too, if you think for one micro second these two 150w Class-D GaN amps could possibly sound as good as each other. https://orchardaudio.com/bosc 0.9kg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/ce/1a/e1ce1a9c552aa57530ad2804c9067800.jpg 54kg |
Here’s my worthless 2 cent contribution which I may have posted about previously. When Paul McGowen of PS Audio set out to make a world class amplifier (at a "reasonable" price) he built custom input stages coupled to I believe Hypex modules at the time (not the very top model since he was using his own input stage anyway) He was quite happy with his design and brought it to the late Arnie Nudell’s (founder of Infinity) sound room to play on his prototype new smaller IRS speakers. When compared to Arnie’s custom tube amp he had commissioned, Paul’s designs continued to fall flat compared to Arnie’s reference, try after try. I believe he finally told Paul if he wanted to build a world class amplifier he’d have to scrap the project and hire Bascomb King (of Constellation, Marantz, Infinity as well as a respected reviewer/measurement writer) to design the amp from scratch. The design he came up with was MOSFET class AB and Bascome’s design beat Arnie’s reference, (which he promptly sold to make room for a BHK.) I think it’s amazing that Paul kept his public informed along each advance and setback over the years. The time I waited for the BHK line to be released was worth it, The R&D on Class D may have helped later with their lower priced amps, and from what I’ve read they sound really good, but there is a reason the MOSFET amps exist as their flagships. Incidentally, Paul was very anti tube and PS had never released a tube product. Bascom convinced him to at least listen to a tube input stage. It was agreed and even planned to release the BHK’s with two input options, one tube and one solid state, built on tube socket for easy switching. But once they auditioned the two designs, it wasn’t even worth releasing the solid state version, and PS Audio had its first tube product and achieved its goal to be a top contender in amps (especially the mono blocks, which were conceived as a convenience option with only 50 watts more, but who’s balanced design once rolled off the assembly line and heard for the very first time proved to reveal another level of sonics above the stereo version. Of the few people that have heard the BHK (I imagine the mono) versus the much more expensive and top reviewed Constellation, they preferred the BHK. |
You are saying this 0.9kg 150w Gan ampNope. Didn't say that. I merely pointed out that class D circuits have to be compact. The above is a Strawman logical fallacy; thus inherently false. |
You did, because you called me out on saying this, to which I was making reference (dinky) to the Orchard Audio Bosco 150w type ones The ones around now using GaN’s are either dinky little office type class-D’s or expensive ones that haven’t utilized the technology as far as Technics did. To which you responded This statement is false. The Technics amplifier is only 150 watts, which is similar power as many of its GanFET competition. Ralph get it right your the false one with strawman mentality, you can’t have it both ways, the two 150w amps (Technics SE-R1 v Orchard Bosco) are very different, and will not be the same, and I’m sure your answers are "protection blurb" for what you have coming. Stick to tubes that's where your cred is. |
Ralph get it right your the false one with strawman mentality, you can’t have it both ways, the two 150w amps (Technics SE-R1 v Orchard Bosco) are very different, and will not be the same, and I’m sure your answers are "protection blurb" for what you have coming. Stick to tubes that's where your cred is.If you look back at this you will see that I am not claiming that they are the same. I was simply saying that a module the size of a pack of cigarettes is that way on account of it has to be so to ameliorate noise issues. And again, your argument quoted above is yet another Strawman. A Strawman is an argument different from the one which which your opponent in debate has presented; by then knocking down a different argument you can still think of yourself as correct. It works only if others don't notice the slight of hand. You've been correct in your arguing but incorrect in addressing my points. |
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