The Science of Cables

glupson, I think one will hear a greater improvement in SQ with the SM of interconnect placement on an entry level audio system than on a $25k-$50k audio system. The SM of interconnect placement has certain universal truths that cannot be denied with any level audio system. 

File under just sayin’ eh.

...Bertrand Russell once said: “The fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that the foolish are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

One part of which refers to real practitioners of science, the other to those who play scientists on the interwebs.

It makes very little sense to talk about what a recording studio or audio engineer does wrong. It’s too late to change that. The only system that makes sense to talk about is the home system. To answer the OP directly, it’s not really true that “we have little scientific evidence why cables sound the way they do.” Specifically, we have a tremendous amount of empirical evidence that cables sound the way they do. Listening testimony is empirical evidence. It is perhaps more powerful than measurement evidence. It is illogical to declare that a hobby that is largely subjective is strictly objective. There is strong empirical evidence that,

* cables sound different
* cables suffer break-in
* cables are directional
* cables are system and application dependent to some extent
* cryogenics improves cable performance.

Finally, there are many examples of recording studios that did employ high end electronics, microphones and cables. Mapleshade, Moment!, Water Lilly, probably Mobile Fidelity, and others. These days who knows?

And there is the example of Bob Ludwig, a master in the pro field and with much more than just a lick of audiophile in his method.

. During a recent interview with mastering legend Bob Ludwig of Gateway Mastering for the 3rd edition of The Mastering Engineer’s Handbook, he mentioned that he rewired his entire studio with Transparent Cable and both he and his clients were astonished at the improvement in sound.

Bob Ludwig: My letter to Harry acknowledged that early on, when I was first mastering records, it wasThe Absolute Sound that kept the concept of the highest quality sound in the forefront of my thinking. It spurred me on to investigate circuit designs better than the "stock" circuits offered by professional gear manufacturers, high-end cables, power supplies and especially high end speakers and amplifiers. So the influence of The Absolute Sound on me caused me to look for better audiophile solutions to create great sound which in turned produced better sounding music to the millions of people who played the result of my work. Competing against facilities like Doug Sax’s The Mastering Lab opened my ears as well as Doug was really the first mastering engineer I know of who really had a handle on high-end sound along with his brother Sherwood.

and I use the top-of-the-line Transparent Audio speaker cable. I use Transparent Audio cable throughout the studio; we probably have a few kilometers of it installed in my one mastering room, three production rooms and DVD-authoring room.

The main key is the room itself. I tried to make it as acoustically perfect as possible.

cleander, If I read your comment correctly in your last post, I believe you may be referring to the subjective perception of the efficacy of Schroeder method in more modest systems. 

I assert that there is an absolute relationship in terms of performance, that a higher end rig, a more capable system, will always benefit/reveal relatively more than a mid to lower end system.  YMMV 

Just because you might have a higher resolving rig does not mean it will necessarily reveal an x-fold increase in SQ by virtue of placing an SM interconnect assembly into such a system that exceeds that experienced in a lower-end system with the same SM interconnect assembly. Which has the greater improvement, a lower-end system that has a 50% improvement in perceived SQ or a high-end system that has a 20% improvement in perceived SQ?

This just in!! Wikipedia Audiophile! 

excerpt,

ControversiesEdit

There is substantial controversy on the subject of audiophile components; many have asserted that the occasionally high cost produces no measurable improvement in audio reproduction.[20] For example, skeptic James Randi, through his foundation One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge, has offered a prize of $1 million to anyone who can demonstrate that $7,250 audio cables "are any better than ordinary audio cables".[21] In 2008, audio reviewer Michael Fremer attempted to claim the prize, and said that Randi declined the challenge.[22]Randi said that the cable manufacturer Pear Cables was the one who withdrew.[23]

Criticisms usually focus on claims around so-called "tweaks" and accessories beyond the core source, amplification, and speaker products. Examples of these accessories include speaker cables, component interconnects, stones, cones, CD markers, and power cables or conditioners.[24][25]

There is disagreement on how equipment testing should be conducted and as to its utility. Audiophile publications frequently describe differences in quality which are not detected by standard audio system measurements and double blind testing, claiming that they perceive differences in audio quality which cannot be measured by current instrumentation,[26] and cannot be detected by listeners if listening conditions are controlled,[27] but without providing an explanation for those claims.

Thanks for posting. I was so busy marveling over your 14,000 posts here that I missed that Wiki thread.

Kisses!

I am no stranger to controversy. The Amazing Randi is actually a very nice guy.

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5022

http://archive.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/135-swift-november-30-2007.html

Yeah, I knew Randi had a martial arts background. I took him out with a couple mental jujitsu moves just last week. 

I was in the original group that the movie, The Men who Stare at Goats, is based on. George Clooney played me.

No goats, no glory. 🐐 🐐 🐐 👀

The Amazing Randi is remarkably spry for a 90 year old. But he went down like a sack of potatoes.

I just love the data in the PEAR institute tests on an over view of meta testing. the tests that showed..at a odds of less than billions to one of being wrong...that.. people get the results they desire and unconsciously push for.

The gist of it is this:
Scientists have noted for decades, the preponderance of non correlating results in tests that involved non contact experiments.

Specifically psychic tests, ones involving time and whatnot. Ie, seal a answer chosen, safely store it for two months or a year, whatever. Then conduct the psychic sensitivity test. select the answer Then open the correct envelope or box, that was put away two months earlier. and the correlation is like 85%. Where anything over 50% is statistically significant.

To rigorously do science with as much in the way of potentials for error or lies to be covered any and all aspects involved, yet the correlation remains high.

So that all of the scientists outside of the experiment and anyone else, to say, before the experiments are done, that the methods are foolproof in the extreme, so much that people doing the review, pre-experiment... swears they’ll shoot themselves if the results can be faked. total confidence. In all. by all.

Then to have a set of skeptics do similar levels of hard work and set up in testing regimes....and achieve obviously null or statistically insignificant results.That skeptics and haters do the exact same thing an achieve different results.

So the one group designed a universal test. A meta test of all the tests and meta tests.(and that original set of tests was over decades and involved over 1000 tests and over 10,000 people)

Skeptics, believers and open minded neutral groups were selected to review and set up the psychic test protocols. three groups of accredited scientists, all with extensive backgrounds in testing of all kinds..

all three groups believed that the results would be and are going to be, 100% unassailably correct in outcome, and they all agree to to do the tests the exact same way. Billions to one, shoot yourself if it’s a lie, kinda agreement.

Each group came out with exactly different results. Yet they all agreed beforehand that this would be impossible to achieve, re any possible dispute in results..

The psychic believers got a 100% level of correlation that psychic sensitivties are 100% real. Billions to one of being wrong on that.

The skeptics, haters and non believer group, got a 100% level of correlation that psychic sensitivities are 100% garbage. Billions to one of being wrong on that.

And the open minded non assuming ambiguous group ended up with ambiguous results that could be be one way or another.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
The end result of all that... is the illustration... that --intent drives reality.

Intent drives reality. Intent steers reality. Intent drives and steers reality through and beyond all 3d space-time.

And that it is billions to one and beyond, that this assessment is wrong.

Where you are free to project, disbelieve and live by the assertion that this is wrong and landlubber Newtonian reality is all there is and all that stuff is garbage. And all those people are nutbars and charlatans, and snake oil peddlers. And you can to do test after test after test until the known universe ends---- and all the data will support you. And they can do the same perfected tests and 100% prove you wrong.

And the universe will give you that or surround you with it exactly and exclusively. As you wish.

Meanwhile, not looking around the correct corner with the correct thought, mind, or eyes..., this means the entire point is missed.

You get back and are the exact thing you project and live by/as.

That the universe and space time are entirely malleable, in pretty well all ways you can imagine, and can’t imagine.

You are what you is.

Go ahead, eat that, skeptic. Good luck with that.

Again, though, the universe says you can live wrapped up in that shortsighted blinked self lie and roll forward on it, eating the world in such an insane mindset. Science has already proven this.

How you gonna deal with that? It’s a case of falling though non existent skies with zero safe ground, and it’s all on you. That your inner monkey filter/machine/carrier gets picked up and dropped across the universe's knee so hard it's back is shattered into a thousand disappearing pieces.

Watch out for all the conflicting FUD. That human reality, motion, flow, etc... is a conscious and unconscious collective of individuals, and we are in the drivers seat, and to a high degree...if we are aware of what is actually going on.

Interesting domino effect on that, where scientific objectivity is a concept in a subjective world and illustrates that objective science is 100% unreal. That it lives by consensus and not much of anything else.

Where objectivity in the world of physics and science disappears on the quantum scale and everything is just our macro interpretation of the multi-dimensional quantum reality.

But it can’t be unreal, if you believe in it and believe along with others that it is real. That there is a minimal frameworks (table of elements-at atomic scales and up to macro, etc--but enter breakdown in various ways and directions), and you’ve collectively positioned a concept upon it. That it is conceptual, a projection. Likened to straight lines and numbers, which don’t exist at all.

All of science and in particular the last decade and particular the last few years..is driven right square head on ----into this logic gauntlet.

So, what’s the next logical step in this series of posts? The Mind Lamp from Psyleron! The lamp you control with your thoughts. Yeah, Baby!

http://www.psyleron.com/lamp.html

Wasn't aware you needed a special generator to create a random event. Shows how much I know....

Shhhhh! It’s secret information.

Shhhhh !

You spring a leak??

OK, time to hit the nail on the head.

Although the Mind Lamp™ works using an REG device located in the base of the unit, we encourage you not to think about the REG itself. Our interpretation of the research suggests that the mind is constantly interacting with random or uncertain systems, and can influence their observable outcomes based on its intention. This approach is very different from mechanistic ways of thinking, which might require you to direct your intention towards a physical sensor. Don’t worry about that for now—just be confident in your intention.

RGB Color Wheel

The Color Wheel
The first thing you will probably want to do is see if you can make the lamp change to a particular color. Remember that the Mind Lamp™ typically moves from color to color by progressing around the color wheel, rather than by jumping directly to a new color. If the lamp is blue and you want it to turn red, then it can go either way around the color wheel to get there (i.e., blue > cyan > green > yellow > orange > red; or blue > purple > magenta > red). White is a "jackpot" color, which appears when the REG is producing strongly imbalanced data, or when you are having a very strong effect on the lamp. After white, the lamp typically jumps to the color opposite to the previous one in the color wheel scheme.

Full disclosure: MACHINA DYNAMICA is the sole distributor of The Mind Lamp TM from Psyleron 

"...and the correlation is like 85%. Where anything over 50% is statistically significant."

What p-value was accepted here?

celander,

"glupson, I think one will hear a greater improvement in SQ with the SM of interconnect placement on an entry level audio system than on a $25k-$50k audio system."

I have never tried it, I just went by one of the posts in which douglas_schroeder mentioned those numbers as being relevant for his method.

Mr. Duncan, how are your HAVE custom built IC's working out for you? Post your thoughts...

What p-value was accepted here?

You’ll have to break down and look up the pear studies yourself.

Right now, you have questions, so you can reserve for yourself, full denial... and walk away and never look.. but that is an intellectually dishonest thing to do.

You were given the doorway to walk through (names being named), that should be enough, to step in and take a look.
Although there should be a internet rule for this problem, similar to rule 34. like "If the subject is contentious, there will be fully fleshed out denials of it". the pear studies and this given meta test, are a drop in the bucket of the data trails... 

It's the same pattern and problem... of isolated drug testing. where in the real world, all the drugs and the environment interact. In the way a low level considered safe carcinogen is having to deal with 1000-2000-5000 low level chemicals and carcinogens/precursors/drivers/etc, which as a sum total in the real world has 'Cancer' writ large --all over it.

All one has to do is start putting the dots on a page, through looking, looking, looking... and the dots will emerge/converge into a load line of probability that escapes all potential to question it's validity. that thing about science not being a simple bit of reading...

" There is strong empirical evidence that,

* cables sound different
* cables suffer break-in
* cables are directional
* cables are system and application dependent to some extent
* cryogenics improves cable performance. "
Unless you count the endless sighted/subjective "observations" in reviews and shop demos, I have not seen such evidence. I have seen plenty of ABX tests that suggest the opposite.  Where is this evidence?
I would like to believe that different high quality, sufficient gage cables make a significant audible difference, otherwise I am foolish for spending money on my own Analysis Plus cables.  Unfortunately, all the evidence I have seen would tell a disinterested observer that I am, indeed, fooling myself.  I've seen the supposed "victory" in Stereophile, and I know enough stats to tell you that the letters are right, the bias to hear a difference may be the only significant observation there.

In 1961, when Wigner introduced the idea that would eventually become known as "Wigner’s friend," only one scenario was used. With the new experiment, it was doubled and the results that Wigner had first discussed more than 50 years still rang true.

Quantum mechanics gives detail on how the world works at a scale so small that the rules of physics do not apply, Live Science added. With the new findings of the study, the field of quantum mechanics may change if measurements are not the same for everyone.

"It seems that, in contrast to classical physics, measurement results cannot be considered absolute truth but must be understood relative to the observer who performed the measurement," Ringbauer told Live Science. "The stories we tell about quantum mechanics have to adapt to that."

~~~~~~~~~~~

Note: the underlying characteristic of all Newtonian objectivity is entirely quantum mechanical in nature and type.

That above excerpt regards a study that was released the other day.

And a thousand other places to look and find more supporting data, if one is brave enough to look.

This is how groups if ’deniers’ can do a multitude of ’psychic sensitivity’ testing at the most rigorous levels of quality possible and always come up empty.

Where those who believe that psychic sensitivity is real, when enacting the most rigorous scientifically objectively enacted studies (just like deniers) will receive back...a perfect confirmation of it’s reality. As they have in thousands of instances of rigorously perfected studies, for many decades.

It really is: You get back what you put out. Objectivity cannot and does not exist. It is a figment of your imagination and projections, as tied to the underlying nature of reality.

So, in essence, you can ignore this study and shut your mind from recalling this point. (which quite a few will) and you will be successful in that, as that path through reality takes over...

Or you can go and find the other thousands of data points that support the reality of objectivity’s non existence - the impossibility of classical objectivity. And then move toward ruminating all of reality, not just self created boxes and limits. The ’problem’ for the objective ground hugger mentality, is... linear space-time takes a hit so hard it openly fails in this space, this reality, in the now.

What the situation says...is...You are free to lie to yourself however you may want about what you project, and you will interact with those realities and ’receive’ them. Or you can look at the world in how it truly is, where potential and reality is tied to you and what you can accept, understand, and bring into this world.

Essentially, the monkey has to get smart, get it straight, and finally relax, or it’s going to kill us all.

What does this have to do with contentious argument threads about audio?

Well, obviously...everything. Cable deniers, hearing deniers, logic deniers, etc.

Electricity by necessity, by reality, by fundamentals, is a quantum calculation and system. So is the human mind.

Hence the line, "feel free to disagree'.

But the reality says.... that one may be butchering themselves and their potential...in the process. And never know it, or understand it.

Of course you don’t have to consider quantum mechanics for almost all everyday calculations or observations. So let’s not get too carried away. Nor does the FAA or Boeing have to consider quantum mechanics when it performs its extensive and comprehensive testing for critical systems, you know, like navigation, radars, avionics, air-ground radios and flight dynamics software. Let’s not make this more complicated than it has to be. 

GPS location calculations use quantum adjustment, but I agree with the point.  Generally quantum mechanics are required for things outside of normal human scale - very far, very small, very fast.

And indeed, electrons and soundwaves are quantum-scale. Nonetheless, without evidence of human-perceived palpable differences, bringing quantum theory into a discussion of human-perceived palpable differences in cables looks like hand-waving to me.  I could be wrong, as always, but none of the quantum references here have looked like cogent arguments, rather indirect allusions to possibilities that don't seem to be connected to real world listening.

The issue for me is simply that if I perceive a difference only in a sighted test with the encouragement of a motivated onlooker (dealer), but can't perceive that difference accurately under controlled conditions, why, exactly, am I spending more than most people make in a quarter (or $1k a year of retirement income, depending on my age) on it?

And then there's a question of whether even a palpable difference at the dealer matters much to your repeated daily listening pleasure at home. Right now I'm previewing the programs I'll hear at the NY Philharmonic tonight and Wednesday.  I'm using my ancient beloved Thiels, which have no tweeter in the right channel.  It bugs me, and plays havoc with the cello section and winds locations, but I'm still loving the music. 

 I thought I heard a difference between a direct and conditioned ethernet cable (to my chagrin), but it wasn't huge.  I thought the introduction of a power conditioner and Naim separates was a material step *down* from the Naim Uniti (some remaining question in my mind as to whether the dealer took the speakers out of phase, as the image died, but he did sit down next to me and immediately tell me how much more awesome it sounded). None of these differences were big enough to merit a lot of money.

A separate and personal question indeed, but I spent 20 years listening to the same speakers and amp happily, with only two changes of source as tech developed from SACD to hi-res streaming.  What differences are *material enough*, let alone distinguishable blindfolded, that I can spend the money and achieve that again?


 

Actually atomic particles are referred to as nanoscale, like the data on a CD. Besides it’s not really true that quantum mechanics only applies to things on a very small scale. That’s a common misconception. That’s what the Schrodinger Cat thought experiment illustrated among other things. It’s getting so there’s no clear separation between classical physics and quantum physics. Quantum mechanics is a concept, as much as anything. Like the double slit experiment - A bowling ball will display the same quantum characteristics as a photon.And quantum Teleportation. And entanglement. A Quantum of Solace. Was James Bond into quantum mechanics?

"Let’s not make this more complicated than it has to be."

Are we ignoring directionality now?

No. We are ignoring glubson.

Thank you. That is a compliment I was craving. Especially when it comes from that direction.

I sold Nordost for over 10 years of time. I even sold the most Valhalla cables for many years. I have done thousands of test with cables in over 20 years of time. Differences between brands are huge. In the end, you need cables who can reveal and display all the different aspects of sound.

In 2010 I started to sell Audioquest cables again. I also sold Kimber a lot for a long time. As Purist Audio power cables.

But....when you test many different brands you all know ( I won’t tell the brands) the facts prove that most cables emphasis a certain freq. range. This always works negatively. It needs to be as linear as possible.

But......when people have no idea about sound and about the different aspects/properties of sound you have no idea what is the best choice. We do both sound&vision by Tru-Fi.

This means we work and think by all the different aspects/properties of sound and also for vision. Because you need them all to become one with your music. Many brands in cabels I tested are not able to reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. They will always create a limitation in each system you use.

You will need an audio-system what can reveal all the details and different aspects of sound. You will find these details and aspects of each recording. But almost all products which are produced in the world of audio cannot reveal all the aspects of sound.

In cables, you see exactly the same limitations as in all other audio products. This is why almost all sold systems cannot reveal all the details and different aspects of sound. When we talk to new clients who own incomplete trial&error systems they often miss the engagement and emotion.

This can be easily explained when different aspects are missing. All the different aspects of sound can influence human emotion. So this makes it more clear why the level in emotion and intensity becomes less.

When we judge all different cables on all aspects of sound the facts prove that most are incomplete. People who work in audio and those who see audio as their hobby all do audio by trial and error. And most have no idea about the aspects of sound.

For them, it is even impossible to understand what the cable they want to buy does to their system. Because almost all sold systems in the world cannot reveal all the aspects of sound.

For over 5 weeks now I own the new Audioquest Fireblade Zero+bass in a single bi-wire configuration. I started to do research between the single wire cables vs the single bi-wire cables in 1999, So I know exactly the important benefit of single bi-wire cables for loudspeakers who have the option to be used in bi-wire.

We only create systems who are able to reveal all the aspects of sound. And the Audioquest cables can reveal and display all these different aspects as well. But.....most systems which are sold in the whole F. world are incomplete. This means that all AudioQuest cables you will use in an incomplete trial&error system cannot be used at the max they can offer you.

This week I bought a monster of a Gryphon Antilion Signature power amp of 90 kilos. And when it is being installed and we have done a new Statement Audio Pro-measurement I will invite AudioQuest Europe. It will make my stage even wider en deeper. And it will create a higher level in layering compared to my former Pass Labs.

I asked Audioquest to bring in all their Niagara conditioners. I will ask them to give a demonstration of how they use their products and cables at my place. I have tested the Niagara conditioners and I know that they cannot reveal all the aspects of sound.

After they have done their presentation I will show them what happens when you use a conditioner who is able to reveal all the aspects of sound. And how big the differences are in intensity and emotion. I do not want to make them look like fools. I only want to show them what conditioners can do when they are able to reveal all the aspects of sound.

I have sold in 2018 by far the most Storm power cables in my country. I already started to do a lot of research on power cables in 2002. In the Tru-Fi world, the level in the effectiveness of power cables is never comparable compared to the same power cable in an incomplete trial&error audio system.

All my clients call these cables a bargain. But when I talked to Audioquest about the Storm power cables the reactions in the whole of Europe and Asia are totally different. And sold not as much as they hoped for. In the US they are sold a lot more. But due to the lack of insight and knowledge in cables in most audio shops they cannot create the same level in effectiveness as we can create.

For the Audioquest loudspeaker cables, the differences are huge as well. We sell so much more expensive loudspeaker cables than almost all audio shops. In the Tru-Fi world, a cable is of the same importance as a source, loudspeaker or even an amp. Friday I had contact with Audioquest by phone about their new loudspeaker cables.

And I asked them does the sales of the new loudspeaker show that most are sold in a single wire? They saw in their system that this was correct. I predicted this a few months ago already. Most people in audio have not the insight and knowledge in the benefits of using single bi-wire for bi-wire loudspeakers.

And now comes the main reason for this. In a Tru-Fi world where the stage is always 3-dimensional and deep and wide. The benefit of a single bi-wire configuration is a lot bigger than compared to any 2-dimensional system by trial&error. Who often also miss other different aspects of sound.

We have sold the new Audioquest loudspeaker cables only in a zero+bass single wire configuration. In a shootout with an Audioquest loudspeaker cable in a single wire configuration and the use of bridges the outcome would be rather big. But......in a trial&error incomplete audio system, the differences are a lot less compared to the Tru-Fi world?

So......the question is?

What is the truth?

I agree that cables are super easy to measure in terms of R, C and L.


I think that what's not well understood is their effect on the final output. I've heard speaker cables behave in such a way that makes me believe amps and speakers are more susceptible to these than we think. I've heard a lot of cables which "enhance imaging" do so by cutting the treble.


In the mean time, snake oil proliferates and people pay outrageous sums of money for essentially tone controls, with noise blocking.


Pretty much why I use balanced, pure silver cables with shielding and build my own. Cheap, very very good sounding. If I need a tone control I'll use ... a tone control.


Best,

E

If I need a tone control I'll use ... a tone control.

My sentiments exactly.

I can describe all the differences between many brands due to tests and comparing. And the differences are huge, so again the question is?

Which ones are the most coherent and realistic sounding cables?

Then you need to learn first how voices and instruments sound in reality? Because when you hear most audio products and even for cables count the same thing, they differ all too much from the truth.

When I talk with manufacturers and I ask them simple questions about sound and how the human emotion works regarding music they have no idea.

The next question is; how for God sake they make their choices. And on what it is founded?

In the past and still today most people who buy cables want to adapt the timbre and sound of their system.

This is not the way how you should use cables. People often have no idea what the DNA regarding the properties of each individual component is in their system. This is why trial&error is pure gambling.

When you do not know the DNA of each individual part in your system is, it is 100% impossible to understand what the F. you are doing. And yes these are 100% facts.

I talked since 2017 with many manufacturers about the way they work. They all agreed that the cannot look back what the DNA is of every single part. And they also agreed that trial and error has no real foundation.

Even when I talked to manufacturers who create products who can reveal all the aspects of sound, is that it is still difficult to understand why it can reveal all the aspects of sound. Like they had some luck. There is still a lot what is unknown in audio.

Since 2015 we spent a lot of time in testing and doing research regarding electro-smog, magnetism and high-frequent noise. We did all these tests with the advice of people who are specialists in these parts. But when I talked to manufacturers they have very little insight and knowledge about these aspects.

People who see audio as their hobby have no idea how low the level is of the effectiveness of each component in their system. It is insane how much quality, details, layers, and realism in sound you will lose. Due to the influences of the acoustic, electro-smog, magnetism and high-frequent noise on the sound and stage.

It is sad to see and hear how few products there are who can reveal all the aspects of sound. This proves how little most manufacturers know about sound and all the influences on sound and stage. They only focus on their products. And they don’t care about the systems where their products are used in. This is not their responsibility they often say.

I think a lot different about this matter. In my opinion, manufacturers have to work a lot more precise to create the best and most realistic sounding products. But the facts show that this is not how it is in reality. I have done thousands of tests with cables in over 20 years of time now. And even here the sad thing is the fact that most brands cannot reveal all the aspects of sound.

But trail&error will never make you aware and understand what the DNA is of the cable you just put into your system. They will only listen to the end result. But they will never have any F. idea of why the end result is what they hear. It is insane that the whole world is doing audio by trial&error. Even when people are interested in new cables they still have no F. idea of what they are doing.

For conditioners, you have the same outcome as with amps, preamps, sources, cables, loudspeakers that by far most products are still incomplete. So when you use these conditioners you limit yourself often with your audio system. It limits you in hearing and perceiving all the different aspects of sound.

But...due to trail&error, you will never have any idea what you miss. And which aspects that part in your system cannot reveal. This is why trial&error is pure random order. They all wanted us to believe that sound is just a matter of personal taste. You only can choose your own system.

Even this is not the truth. Based on the fact that both voices and instruments sound as they sound in reality. I have done a lot of research on how human emotion works regarding music. It made me understand that you need all the different aspects of sound to feel the emotion of your own music.

I am addicted to music since I was 6. I spend about 200 euro on new music every single month. This has been like this for many many years now. I make time to listen to new music for about 3-4 hours every single week. In over 20 years visiting hundreds of clients with audio systems I learned how little music the most people own?

So I asked them; are you happy with your system? And most were not. That is why they often invited me. All their systems where incomplete. So it was very easy to explain to them why they miss the intensity and emotion during listening to their system.

When I did ask them why they have so little own music? They said that when they have the sound they are looking for they will start buying music. But most people who do audio by trial&error will never come to the ultimate level they hope to create. Even after many years they still hope to find the sound they are dreaming of.

Almost all human beings can only perceive 1 to 3 different aspects of sound within 1 second. This also proves that is it 100% impossible to create an ultimate sounding system by themselves. Based on the fact that trail&error systems are almost all incomplete regarding the missing aspects of sound. What is missing never can be perceived when even one part of their system is missing aspects of sound.

The audio industry has been sleeping for a long time now. And trial&error is the main reason why the audio market is decreasing. When you are honest and see what the level is what you can get by doing audio by trial&error the outcome is not that great. Due to the fact that trial&error is extremely ineffective.

I use a lot of silver in my system. All interconnects are 100% silver. I use 2 sets of AudioQuest Wel Signature and the rest is AudioQuest Wild Blue Yonder. I only use Audioquest Diamond RJE-cables, Diamond HDMI cables, Diamond USB.

And the new AudioQuest Firebird has a lot of silver as well. The Bass uses 51% pure silver and the Zero about 30% of pure silver. I only use one Audioquest Dragon High-Current power cable with silver for my subwoofer. And an Audioquest Wild Dog 100% silver interconnect.

You cannot use silver as much as you would like to. Research proved that there are many many brands and products where copper cables work a lot better. Most audio products are very limited in the level of diversity (layering) in sound. And when you use silver cables, the level in layering will become even less.

But trial&error will not give you the information about the DNA of every single part within your system. You cannot look back to understand what the influence is of every single part. Because you are listening only to the end result. So you are doing audio by random order all your life.

You first need to imply products which can create a stunning level in diversity (layering) in sound before you can use silver a lot. And no most products are not usable for this. Power cables with silver work in most situations for amps, preamps, sources, power supplies and conditioners not as good as most copper versions.

They limit the level in layering too much. When you would judge a power cable on all the aspects of sound, it becomes even clear that copper will have a better end result on all different aspects compared to silver.

You only can understand which cable works best when you can judge your audio system on all different aspects of sound. But trail&error gives you no F. insight at all. You only can pray and hope for the best.

The new AudioQuest cables create a new level in sound quality I never have seen and auditioned before. When you compare the new AudioQuest cables with the old ones, they are now in a totally different league.

The only limitations I found are the Niagara conditioners. I can prove by facts and sound that they are incomplete regarding the aspects of sound. There are a few more Audioquest products which are not that great. But in general, they all own the DNA you want and need in your system.

The biggest difference is that AudioQuest cables have a much bigger influence in the Tru-Fi world compared to the limited trial&error world. This is why our clients have a different perspective and even truth regarding AudioQuest cables. Tru-Fi gives us full access to all the different aspects of sound.

But in the trial&error world, the AudioQuest cables work a lot less effective. Due to the fact that trail&error systems miss different aspects of sound. Trial&error (gambling) systems block you from having full access of all the AudioQuest cables.

When you miss different aspects of sound, you only can use the AudioQuest cables at a limited level. You still have no access to the parts which you cannot reveal with your system. This is why all people from the limited trial&error world have a different truth compared to all Tru-Fi owners.

And again the question is?

What is the real truth?

Many people are still rather skeptical about cables. After testing hundreds of cables in over 20 years of time I understand their thoughts very well. When I look back to all these tests I have carried out I have to admit that by far the most are not worth the money.

So the question is: Are most cables a scam or snake oil?

The problem can first be found more based on the limitation in insight and knowledge of the people who create them. When you cannot even answer simple questions about sound, or how our emotion works regarding music or even the aspects that influence sound and stage.

It is impossible to create good cables. In audio, many discussions are often about the limitations of products and by cables, we even hear it a lot more.

So again you may ask: why so many people still don’t trust most brands who manufacture cables?

Because first the insight and knowledge of people who work in audio are rather limited regarding the influence and importance of cables in general. Trial&error will never give you the insight to understand what exactly the influence and level of importance is of any cable.

You change a cable for another cable. But when you have no F. idea which properties of sound you took out and which ones you brought in. It is all one big guess and gamble. You never can tell what those cables do in your system. Trial&error is only focussing on the end result. This is why it lacks any kind of foundation. There is not even any kind of discussion possible.

Are there brands in cables who work well and are really important?

The answer is, yes there are. But.......only a few. This creates the main reason why most people are still so skeptical. All those brands and products which are not worth the money causes all these feelings and thoughts. And even create a wrong image of those products who are worth the money.

Most reviews in audio these days are paid. So what you read is often not the truth. This does not make people less skeptical. The audio industry makes it even worse. I think it’s very clear and easy to understand why our audio-market is decreasing?

Because the level in quality of most products is not good enough. This is the truth and the reason why something has to change in the world of audio. They way they make their choices now doesn’t work that well.

What needs to be changed and done to make people less skeptical about cables?

Very simple; manufacturers need to learn first more about sound and music in general. And create products which can reveal all the aspects of sound. This is the only way to change it. There is no other option what will work that effective.

Where do we start? It seems to me that we need a basic system from which to build knowledge. Tying together music reproduction, hearing, and human emotions into a scientific framework seems like a tall order. One I believe is conquerable. 

If knowledge was money the problem would already be solved. 

How does your new system profit all, and even better how do you make a lot of money in your system?

The first problem is that most people who work in audio have often a very limited level in insight and knowledge. Every time I speak to them it becomes clear that they often don’t know the answers on simple questions. Sound is very complex and is formed on many different aspects/properties and you first need to learn what they are and what their influence is.

When I ask them can you tell me about all the different aspects of sound? They can’t even answer it. It goes a lot further than that.

When I ask them; which parts influence the sound? They even cannot answer this question either.

When I talk about the acoustic, electro-smog, magnetism and high-frequent noise they know very little about it. It proves that they do not focus on sound and all the influences on sound.

This is why it becomes so ineffective. Most manufacturers say that they focus on their products and have no time for those other aspects. I earn my money by outperforming all competitors. For me, it is a game and I want to win over and over again.

I have spent thousands of hours in research and tests in over 20 years of time. With the goal to be superior to all other people in the world of sound&vision. This is a choice I made. Research and understanding how sounds work will cost you thousands of hours.

But when I would not have been able to see patterns and I would not have a photographic memory in sound, even those thousands of hours would not have been enough. In 1998 I had a mindset that I needed to extract the DNA of each part within a system to understand and guide audio. The craziest thing for me is to see that the whole world has been sleeping and still do audio by trial&error.

This is the 100% prove why audio is being carried out at such a limited level. The world in audio sells boxes and brands. When I see the Threads over here they are often about brands and specific products. This will never make you understand audio and guide it. It is the wrong mindset and focus.

Sound is all about the aspects it owns. I create sound by DNA. This is totally different than the limited trial&error way to choose. It is so much more precise. The results are far superior to any other way of doing audio by trial&error. When I have a conversation with new clients who often see audio as their hobby. I need 5 minutes to make them aware that trail&error is useless based on facts.

After each conversation, they become aware that the way they made their choices was the main reason why they are not that happy and satisfied. It is the same when we aks new clients to bring in their own music to listen to a Tru-Fi system.

The reactions are always the same. Because they can hear so much more details and layers of the music they know well. They can easily compare it with their own system. Their trial&error systems do not even come close.

They often say; "even after I song I understood how limited my own system is"

Because of trial&error systems miss so many details and aspects of sound. This is why they only can offer a limited level of emotion. Reading about how human emotion works regarding music gave me very important new insights. It made me bring all systems to a superior level in emotion. This is what each individual person always will choose.

The fact that I sell more expensive power cables and loudspeaker cables of AudioQuest compared to any shop in my country says a lot. This is what thousands of hours in research and tests made possible. I always had a lot of contact by phone and email with the best specialists in their area.

During all research, I used their thoughts and insight a lot. And we were always discussing my thoughts and results. When I compare myself with colleagues at that time, they never contacted these people. I learned to understand sound as a whole. As I learned to think and work by the aspects/properties of sound.

I knew this was the only way to understand and guide audio. There is no other option. All other options are all done by trial&error. Each conversation I had with manufacturers had this outcome. When you have no real foundation it is 100% impossible to guide and understand audio.

The quality of the new AudioQuest cables is now that good that it is very easy to create a better end result compared using the same money for a source, loudspeaker or even an amp. Tru-Fi made the importance of cables so much bigger than you ever can reach by trial&error. It is not even comparable how big the differences in result are.

In the Tru-Fi world, a cable is equal to the importance of a source, loudspeaker or amp. Tru-Fi gives us and our clients access to all the aspects each AudioQuest can reveal. But when you go back to any trial&error system the outcome becomes a totally different world.

Trial&error systems miss different aspects of sound. So when you put an AudioQuest into a trial&error system you only can use the aspects of the cables which can be revealed by your system. This is why the level of effectiveness is a lot less compared to the Tru-Fi world.

As I said earlier; "our clients have a different perspective and even truth about AudioQuest cables compared to the trail&error people"

All the choices we make are based on the best results possible. This is why research and testing are so important. We need the data to understand it and make the best choices. We can see into details so much further than any other company in audio. Because due to the thousands of hours in research and test we have access to details most people cannot even think of.

It is not even on their radar and it will never be on their radar ever. When you cannot think in patterns and have no photographic memory you will never have access to these details and information.

bo1972

... most people who work in audio have often a very limited level in insight and knowledge. Every time I speak to them it becomes clear that they often don’t know the answers on simple questions ... you first need to learn ...  They can’t even answer it ... They even cannot answer this question either ... they know very little about it. It proves that they do not focus on sound ... I earn my money by outperforming all competitors ... I have spent thousands of hours in research and tests in over 20 years of time. With the goal to be superior to all other people in the world ... the whole world has been sleeping ... The reactions are always the same ... I knew this was the only way to understand and guide audio. There is no other option ...
you will never have access to these details and information.

Beware the audio guru.

When people cannot answer the questions it proves that they have no idea about the thing we discuss. They are often honest people who admit that they just don't know. Audio is all about sound and how it sounds in the real world. This is how you want to experience your music.

But when you judge most products in audio, it becomes clear how much they differ from the truth. There is a reason why so less audio brands and products can reveal all the aspects of sound. When your knowledge about sound and music is limited, it becomes clear why their products are incomplete regarding missing aspects of sound.

Most people believe that audio is based on personal preference. But this is only based on assumptions given by others what we believe. I have asked hundreds of people about their personal preferences regarding audio. And the facts showed that most cannot even describe which aspects/properties it is founded. This is how thin the line is where they all walk on. 

The truth can be hard and not the thing you would like to hear. But when you want to get an ultimate audio system you need all the aspects of sound to experience the full emotion of your own music. This has nothing to do with personal preferences but is just based on facts. Trial&error  mislead the people to create the best system for them.

When I speak with new clients, it often comes clear that most people are still looking and hoping to find the sound they would like to create. But when we explain to them what trail&error is and what it means. It becomes clear for them that this is the main reason why they are in a circle for many years. Trail&error will never make you guide and understand audio. All manufacturers I spoke agreed on this.

But when you judge most products in audio, it becomes clear how much they differ from the truth. There is a reason why so less audio brands and products can reveal all the aspects of sound.

Give some examples of these aspects of sound that are missing.

Almost all products are 2-dimensional. In over 20 years of time, I could test so many audio products. Besides the products we sold, I did lend a lot of stuff as well. It took me thousands of hours to extract the DNA of each individual product. In the first years, when I started to work in audio is was busy with it for over 80 hours every single week. I was and I am still addicted to sound and testing

We humans can perceive sound in a 3-dimensional stage. But....when you judge most audio products the stage depth is in almost all situations 0, all voices and instruments stand on the same line till 1 meter of stage depth maximum.

Our Tru-Fi systems can easily create a stage depth of far over 3 meters. And in width, you have the same differences. It let you hear instruments play till 1.5 meters beside the loudspeakers.

When we visited the Munich High-End show there was only one system that could create diversity in height. All other systems played both voices and instruments on the same height. When you visit small shows you will never audition this. Because most audio products and this counts even for most high-end products cannot create diversity in height.

This is an aspect of sound what you hear not that often. But it makes a huge difference in realism and also in emotion. When a system can reveal diversity in height the harmonics become more clear of the recording.

When you judge audio products on the most important aspect/property of sound what is diversity (layering) in sound, it becomes clear how limited most products are in this particular aspect of sound. This is the main reason why most people describe so many systems as dead or without emotion. Most products have what we call; a sound.

Manufacturers focus on/emphasis a certain freq. range. This does not give you the layers (differences in the harmonics) in sound what is needed to get involved with the music. But even on other aspects of sound, most audio systems are rather poor in it.

When you would listen a lot to live acoustic music as I did you get a totally different perspective about audio and realism in sound. For me, it is 100% unacceptable when voices and instruments are out of proportion. But the other limitation is the fact that both voices and instruments are not played in what we call: a 3D image.

When you audition to live music a piano, cello, violin or even a voice. When you close your eyes and you use your fingers to imagine the size, it becomes clear how small it is. When we are at audio shows it becomes clear that most people have no idea how big it should be played. When you hear an instrument live they also own a form within space it is being played.

Most audio systems cannot create it, but those who can make it so much more exciting and thrilling. I am addicted to music since I was 6 years old. For an extreme perfectionist, you want it as real as possible. This is why I spend so much effort to do research. I am improving sound all the time over and over again. This never stops, normal people, cannot even imagine the time and effort I put in it. They would describe it as insane.

For me, it is the most normal thing in life. It is the thing I love the most. That makes it easy to spend thousands of hours on it. When you do this for a living what I do, you have all the time to spend so much time on it. For me, music and sound are very addictive. It never saw it as work or even a hobby. It goes that much further. It is a part of me since I was 6 years old.

I met hundreds of unique people in audio in over 20 years of time. But when I speak about the hours and time In spend on sound&vision, people look at you and think are kidding. It is the truth, I understand that it is difficult to imagine when you go this far into details. When you love music as I do. It makes sense why you go that far. It is inside my head and system. It does not cost a lot of energy, it goes all automatically.

I don’t F. care about the reactions of some people over here. They make me laugh all the time. I always think; they are just little children and they just don’t F. understand what I do. I don’t blame them, and that is fine with me.

Exactly

A small addition.
There is no clear soundstage at a live concert.

What the whole “audio world” is looking for in his house

mkug, then all these people would have nothing to talk about. I'm with you. You pick the cable for the job at hand paying attention to those properties you mentioned. Constructing your own is the best because you have more control over cable length. 

Excuse Me Schmelzerbrend, I was at an OZ Noy, Dave Weckyl consert in a small jazz bar last week and there was a wonderful sound stage. Not every concert is a stadium concert. Every classical concert I ever went to also displayed its sound stage.

schmelzerbrend1 posts

There is no clear soundstage at a live concert.

That depends on the venue, where in the venue the listener sits and - to some extent - the presentation and orchestration of the music itself.  It is hardly a universal truth that there is no soundstage at a live concert.

mijostyn

You are absolutely right.
The big and small hall are different soundstage.
Of course
But I wanted to say little another.

For live music this is less like a "soundstage" and more like “soundspace” :)

It is 3D and in a rather “soft” form.
Especially at big hall concerts, I can’t show absolutely exactly the musical instrument playing now.
Maybe my hearing is already so bad of course. :(