Now Coltrane is too mystical or non sensical in clear ...😁 ( Sun Ra must be a complete failure for you )

He threw the "net" away ...

For sure an accountant need "a net" to live a life ...

Reality is reality, said the accountant...

Mysticism is a word empty of content in my book say the accountant ...

What a life you live ....No dreams except in the bed... No ectasy save reading your credit line ...

Poetry means nothing ... atom exist and God is a myth...

All we need is EQ of our life as we EQ our gear ...The life must resemble an average Gauss curve or a Harman curve , nothing must exceed the limit ...😁

I never encountered someone as you mijostyn...They will not even came to see me as students ...They dont read...Save for killing time ...

I am sorry but i am not used to speak to old boring man who will learn nothing more ...I miss the students ...This is why i spoke too much ...😁

Reality and mysticism are always at odds with each other.

What is at odds is mediocrity and genius ...Not mysticism and reality ...Read a book... I gave plenty of recommendation that completely contradict your saying ...

It is incredible... The OP recommended a marvellous deep video and you came spilling your opinion as truth , claiming all this is non sensical ...Think about that ...

And you know NOTHING about any of the thinkers i spoke about but instead of asking questions , you repeated your motto as an accountant his columns prayers...

@stuartk 

Reality and mysticism are always at odds with each other. I have been told on many occasions that I have to give people "hope." I never did when there was none. Miracles only happen in fairy tales. Fairy tales are for children. 

I am a huge John Coltrane fan, but there was a point were he left me behind. You can't play tennis without a net. Trane threw the net away. It was not brilliance or mystical. He was undoubtedly searching for something and perhaps it would have made more sense if he had survived longer.  

@mijostyn 

 Others here have said what I might try to say and said it better. The" problem" is that speaking of It will not make It real for you. I do not know how to bridge this gap. 

Does plants sing or speaks to insects and other plants and to some deaf humans ?

«Plants have long been considered to be unchanging, passive, and static organisms,
but this view needs to change. Plants are far more ingenious and aware than initially
thought, and changing the way we view plants can lead to research that can better take
into consideration their capabilities»

Is There a Role for Sound in Plants?

https://iris.unimore.it/retrieve/2944eb3c-4606-4eb8-9400-89eabd9c5f1b/plants-11-02391.pdf

Thanks OP

I had all Zorn books of angels ..

"I feel like there are messages. I feel like there are angels. I feel that there is a legacy and an energy. And I feel that it's possible to tap into that."

John Zorn

I could not have say it better ..

Thanks deep_333

The human system has very much a "energy based" existence that interacts very intricately with the known cosmos. It can't be measured with any conventional scientific instrumentation. We can't dissect ya like a toad and get anywhere with it. But, there are many energy points, convergence points, etc...which would all sound nonsensical to the modern self proclaimed scientific genius, for whom nothing is a living experience, for whom nothing has come alive/awakened.

Certain types of music from the eastern part of the world were developed with this in mind (with a very deep understanding of the human system) and it can very intricately affect the above mentioned.  Such a deeper understanding of the human system can only be developed by looking within...not by being be a haphazard, reactive, outwardly looking, shallow existence. 

Esoteric knowledge and the methods/framework for knowing have managed to survive/remain intact/retained in its sanctity relatively more in parts of Tibet, China, India, Central Asia, etc. In Europe, anyone who possessed any kind of esoteric knowledge was largely branded as a witch or whatever and burnt alive. In North/Central/South Americas, the European pilgrims ended most of them with such type of knowledge. 

In Africa, Islam has probably finished em all,,,the ones with such knowing.

Mystic knowledge is just a very intricate, advanced "science" that modern dumb science hasn't caught up with yet....All you've got right now is the Damocles/double edged sword (nothing to brag about). AI and bioweapons (modern science!) will probably finish everyone soon enough..

"I feel like there are messages. I feel like there are angels. I feel that there is a legacy and an energy. And I feel that it's possible to tap into that."

Neither water nor  drowning fly,

consciousness is and does not belong ...

Am i the fly over the water,

Or am i the water under the fly ?

An idea just sink in me,

As a fly  water is able to think...

A big fly on the water barely swims,

My mind  drown itself  in the small mystery ...

😊

I also agree with Mahgister, but wish he would express himself via Haiku.  

By the way you are certainly a genius because you are able to ascribe each mysteries his place: the trash bin or some awake day dreaming leisure time..

For you no mysteries at all in acoustic or about plant or God...

All is settled by your marvellous operating mind ..

You know you that mysteries are in a corner and reality in the other corner..

Dumdfounding genius you are ...Over all the stupid too imagimative writers and scientists i spoke about, none of them would have act as simplistic as you though ... ...

Are you conscious of what you just wrote ?

😊

No mysteries in Natural science, in acoustics or about god...Plant are DNA evolutive machine , and Bach is only a superstitious man with talent to entertain... No mysteries in the Art of the fugue meanings ... No mysteries in history or in mathematics...

A mystery can be at least two different aspects of a thing AT THE SAME TIME : An unexplained enigma for the time being but even when explained and explaining as the DNA code discovery explained some genetical history enigmas, ANY problems created also a new hard to solve problem at the same time it give a solution to some and then it create a new portal in the mystery of life , a sacred new deep meditation and not a mere technological problem for big pharma to exploit ...

On one side thinking mind meditating mysteries and solving problems without never drying up the well of thinking and on the other side industries exploiting them for profit , those one had no time for mysteries trust me ...

The problem is ascribing "mystery" to things that are not.

You put in my mouth something i never said to be able after that have a way to dismiss my points...or worst you dont understand anything...

You are not fair here...

I never said that music is ONLY a mystical experience...

Read my post above: between the mystical experience and the casual observation of a plant or of your feet crushing it , there exist MANY LAYERS OF THE THINKING PROCESS ABOVE your feet ...You negate them all to reduce poetry to a trivial matter and music to only something emotional and which can be written , period....

Read Owen Barfield book "poetic diction" : poetry is a felt change in consciousness" ... why a consciousness change by reading an assembly of words why ?

And read his short book about science : "saving the appearances "...

You reason like an accountant classifying income entries and exits in an account book... Poetry and mysticism that’s that, pure words assembly nothing else; pure debit and expanse at a cost of loosing time; and science that’s that, objective truth , a solid credit in the bank , the rest is just leisure time or at worst that mystical nonsense... You are like these persons without imagination in a Dickens novel ...Here there is something, and here there is nothing save a mystery for poor too imaginative mind ..Your thinking is with two drawers; is it not a bit limited?

Do you think Georg Cantor and Alexander Grothendick and Goethe had no idea about science ?

Explain to me why Charles Sanders Peirce was in all his life ferociously attacking nominalism ?

it is because people like you separated the mind and the things in two uncommunicable Cartesian entities and taught others how to be out of touch with realities because it is very useful to not raise people above their payroll...

We live an era where being out of touch push us toward annihilation by the fear of thinking ...

And i am not a mystic by the way... In your mouth anyway it is an insult ... Then spare me insults as a way to dismiss my posts without answering any points ...😁There is many layers of the thinking process ; then learn something , between observing your feet and living a mystical experience of consciousness there exist MANY levels of consciousness ... Have you ever read a book ?

A book is precisely something speaking to each of us on many levels and not only two : your feet and the mystic useless poetry ...All book are not instruction manual about EQ or about our feet ...😊

It is not too late to learn , read one ... Try Owen Barfield very short books ...

Or if you like too much your feet and dislike poetry try a book on mammal morphology to train your perceptive imagination ...

Wolfgang Schad : man and mammals ...

you will stumble from your chair reading this one learning how to go from one level of thinking to another one ...One of the great book i ever read...

😊

The problem is ascribing "mystery" to things that are not. The poetry in lyrics can be beautiful. It can also be asinine. It can also be generated by extreme suffering, "why does it have to be this way." Layne Stayle. It can also be generated by mysticism, but it is not in itself mystical. Humans do stuff like this all the time, they like writing and typing. Mahgister is a great example. Creating and playing music is far more complicated and we hold those who can do it special, rewarding them huge incomes and special places in history.

When I was an infant I would not sleep. My mother tried everything (except putting me in her bedroom). Finally, out of desperation, she put a table radio tuned to an all night music station in the crib with me. It worked great and the music has been playing ever since. The only mystery involved in music is why humans love it so much. It is a universal trait. Whenever you see a trait that is universal in a species somewhere back in time there was a survival benefit as almost all the critters that do not have that trait are not here anymore. I have never seen an adequate explanation for music in humans. The trait is so strong that it is present in infants.

@mahgister

You are a great example of mysticism. (IMHO)

@stuartk 

The problem is ascribing "mystery" to things that are not. The poetry in lyrics can be beautiful. It can also be asinine. It can also be generated by extreme suffering, "why does it have to be this way." Layne Stayle. It can also be generated by mysticism, but it is not in itself mystical. Humans do stuff like this all the time, they like writing and typing. Mahgister is a great example. Creating and playing music is far more complicated and we hold those who can do it special, rewarding them huge incomes and special places in history. 

When I was an infant I would not sleep. My mother tried everything (except putting me in her bedroom). Finally, out of desperation, she put a table radio tuned to an all night music station in the crib with me. It worked great and the music has been playing ever since. The only mystery involved in music is why humans love it so much. It is a universal trait. Whenever you see a trait that is universal in a species somewhere back in time there was a survival benefit as almost all the critters that do not have that trait are not here anymore. I have never seen an adequate explanation for music in humans. The trait is so strong that it is present in infants.

@mahgister 

You are a great example of mysticism. (IMHO)

If "person A" regards mysticism as frivolous ianity, at best and "person B" has had vivid experiences that fall within the realm of "the mystical", where is there space for dialog? I don’t see it. "person A" is liable to view "person B" as anything from overly-imaginative to deranged and there is nothing "person B" can do to change this. It’s for this reason that I thought it best not to comment further, despite the fact that this is a topic that greatly interests me. I think it best to leave it at that.

You would be right if between a mystical experience and a perception of a plant growing seen from a scientific viewpoint there would have been no middle ground perspective nor any levels...

I illustrated this opinion of mine by quoting Goethe book about plant morphology and Cantor creating the most universal theory of mathematics borrowing the method of an ancient mystic of the 6 th century Dyonisos the Areopagite and borrowing the intuition of the absolute infinite from another mystic, Nicolas de Cues ......

This two example: Goethe scientific method of observation and the phenomonology of perception as analysed by the physicist Henri Bortoft , and on the other side the work on the foundation of Mathematics by Georg Cantor demonstrate my point : Between pure mystical experience and between raw perception of a plant , there is many levels of the prepared mind ...( you can add the reflexions on creativity and spirituality in mathematics with the 3 thousand published pages of Alexander Grothendieck )

Opinion of people here matter less than facts ...

And fact demonstrate that the thinking faculty operates on many layers all intricated, nevermind if we are conscious of it or not ...

For those ignorant of this , study Carl Gustav Jung the best known psychologist of the century,after Freud ...

Then there is no reason to stop because some need to study or do not remember how to think ... geometry, number theory and the idea of God or The Absolute are not matter of opinion but matter of thinking ...A plant or mammal morphological description is a fact not an opinion ...

In the opposite then my quotes can be useful for ONE PERSON here and this is enough for me ... All are not blind , deaf, and completely dismissive of all poets, all mathematicians, all philosophers and of all revelations of natural science and acoustics ...Or are almost all materialist and transhumabnists without even knowing that thyey are ?

😊

Then i will go on discussing especially because i think as the OP and i completey endorse his point of view about music ... ... and i will not close this thread myself ...Save if a majority of people ask for it because a minority of narrow mind ask for it because they felt diminished by the necessary operation of thinking ...

Why the world goes so wrong? Because people not only dont want to think but they despise those who think...

😁😊😁😊😁😊

Thanks for your kindness with my verbosity....

I often find myself in agreement with @mahgister

I thought that it was John Lennon that claimed Smokey was America’s Greatest Poet.

Was he talking to me? El assumpto amundo. All wrongo bongo. Brevity...we need brevity. And what about Klezmer?

If "person A" regards mysticism as frivolous ianity, at best and "person B" has had vivid experiences that fall within the realm of "the mystical", where is there space for dialog? I don’t see it. "person A" is liable to view "person B" as anything from overly-imaginative to deranged and there is nothing "person B" can do to change this.

Nor is it likely, in my opinion, that "person B" will toss their experience out the window simply because "person A" doesn't believe there is any reality to anything deemed mystical. 

It's probably both more productive and enjoyable for these two persons to talk about something else -- their favorite music, for example.   ;o)

@tyray

@stuartk, Thank you for giving @mahgister his props! There was no need at all to delete your post:

I often find myself in agreement with @mahgister and am not shy about expressing it. I deleted my initial post because I wanted to say more on this thread topic but upon further consideration, opted not to, simply because is so subjective.

If "person A" regards mysticism as frivolous ianity, at best and "person B" has had vivid experiences that fall within the realm of "the mystical", where is there space for dialog? I don’t see it. "person A" is liable to view "person B" as anything from overly-imaginative to deranged and there is nothing "person B" can do to change this. It’s for this reason that I thought it best not to comment further, despite the fact that this is a topic that greatly interests me. I think it best to leave it at that. 

In written speech we can say anything and contradict ourself and negate what has been said ... We can begin to wrote again forgetting what we just corrected ...We are free in a way we are not in musical playing expression and in oral speech ...

Nobody can lie in musical immediate playing expression because nothing can be retracted as in oral expression before writings was invented ...In music playing as in oral speech we live in time with time through timing ..."Lying" can be detected in oral speech and in music  by some asynchronization in the expressing body ...

In the written music or speech we live out of time without time ...

This is why orality as music playing implicate the whole living body...

Written music and written speech do not implicate the whole body they are social institution in a way music playing and oral speech are not  ...Writing miss the mystery of time and timing which is the body itself, the body being a rythms of interlocked spirals at all scales from the microtubules to the body arms......

«Musical ideas or feelings are not mere sound, and yet are nothing apart from sound; they may be described in emotive language ("sad" and the like) and yet are never adequately so described. Description - a logical interpretant, dependent on collateral observation by which the feelings heard are compared with human emotions conventionally designated - lacks the specificity, complexity, and nuance of the musical ideas described. As Mendelssohn said, "It is not that music is too vague for words; it is too precise for words." That is why the proper or complete interpretant of music is emotional, not logical. But that emotional interpretant is not one’s ordinary feeling, for example, of sadness; it is the same complex of feeling as that embodied in the piece of music heard. » (Short : Peirce theory of signs 2007: 204).

Susanne Langer (1953: 147). "The first principle in musical hearing is not, as many people assume, the ability to distinguish the separate elements in a composition and recognize its devices, but to experience the primary illusion [i.e., the movement of the music through the 'virtual time' constructed by the work] , to feel the consistent movement and recognize at once the commanding form which makes this piece an inviolable whole"

I will translate the title thread to make it acceptable as a concept for some :

The experience of sound impact the body-heart/mind-brain/soul-spirit different levels and layers of experience and meanings ...

Calling it "mysticism" and a "mystery" is only short-hand writing for a deeper matter than imagine trivial mind ... But many are so estranged to meaningful experiences varieties they reduce all of them to only one level ... The accountants worker and consumers linear levels of thinking and understanding ... But i dont think that Bach offering his works to God as did Bruckner, Liszt or Hildegard of Bingen , or Ustad ali Akbar Khan or Sharam Nazeri think as American consumers customers or like accountants creating their musical mysteries for initiate mind or mind looking for "truth" certainly not as consumers background music so "wonderful" mijostyn and i agree it could be... ...

😁

As music cannot be really written, mathematics cannot be reduced to writing sums of computations... Mysteries are everywhere if we are able to think instead of repeating common -place opinions inspired by the materialism and nominalism popular in Anglo Saxon world especially ... Read the greatest American philosopher Charles Sanders Peirce ...A polymath genius who investigate what is "meaning" and despise the nominalist habit of the mind around him ...He created a new science singlehandly ...

In this conversation, I don’t see a necessity in rigid tribalism.
“Science/data!! Nothing else!!” vs. “mysticism/God!! Nothing else!!”
No thanks.
It’s far more complex than that.

You are right and it is my point to quoting Goethe and mathematicians...

I spoke about the spirituality not about religions, and i speak about meanings , not about mystical or materialistic ideologies ...

In music i am interested by psychoacoustics and the way sound affect consciousness level of everyone monk or not ...

But materialism is an ideological deception as much as religions...

Anyway i dont refuse the word mysticism because in any religions the mystics are the only interesting person, they perceive before speaking ...

One of the best book i read in my life was an unknown writer Alexis-Preyre, he wrote a book called in " le doute liberateur" or The freeing act of doubt" which explain the analogy of method between scepticism and the apophantic  and cataphatic method of the mystics... Mystics doubt in a methodological way it is why they are not loved by Institution... Francesco D'assissi  miss to be put on stake by few inches ...Mystics are potential heretics because of their real experiences and they ressemble each other , nevermind the religions ..

@mahgister

Mystery Something that is difficult or impossible to explain. backwards

Replacing mysteries by the word wonderful will not replace what i mean by "mystery" ... It is neither esthetically beautiful neither simple amazement; it is entering in Nature intimacy and discovering something ... Read the physicist Henri Bortoft books about Goethe method , which is Leonardo Da Vinci Method as well ...I will say more but i lack the space here ...

Mysteries are there not to be explained by words or experiments, they cannot; they are there as something to be perceived as "meanings" and they then transform the observer stance because they cannot be perceived passively by an external observer but ask to be participate ... This method of observation make Goethe able to found the physiology of colors out of the Newtonian corpuscules optics metaphysics..

Read Goethe " there is no theory behind the phenomenon , the phenomenon is the theory"...

This dude dare to contradict Newton alone and win his point ...Perhaps you may learn something from him ...His I.Q. is not less than Newton...😁 He is a Natural scientist on par with Darwin, he died with one of the biggest natural specimen collections...He investigate mammals and plant morphology and found a new morphological approach...He is the greatest writer of Germany on par with Shakespeare...And understood as well as William Blake the materialism dead end in which we live today replaced by the new religion : transhumanism ...He understood it so well that it is him with his Faust gave to us the only adjective describing the transhumanist hubris at6 his roots : Faustian ...

Accountant philosophy is not my philosophy, in my philosophy there is mysteries...

By the way the greatest Romanian philosopher Lucian Blaga which is also the greatest Romanian writer , created a philosophy completely grounded in the concept of Mystery versus simplistic theorizing ...He is very deep, it is a pity there is no translation in english...

@stuartk, Thank you for giving @mahgister his props! There was no need at all to delete your post:  

@mahgister 

+1

That is/was a blessing to @mahgister! You did/wrote nothing wrong! Thank you!

This thread reminds me of the parable of the elephant. 

And that’s exactly why I used the word ’Love’ in my last post.

I don’t wish to be coarse, but the use of the word “mysticism” in this conversation is somewhat unfortunate in my opinion.
I provided the Oxford Languages definition of the word above, and I will leave it at that.
I am keen on discussing music, and the ways it’s power remains mysterious.
It’s great that academia may aid one’s “literacy” of music, but this literacy only gets one so far.
Bob Dylan, as his recording mate Al Kooper once said, “is a musical primitive.”
He has no formal training of any great significance in literature, either.
Yet, those songs and those lyrics exist.
We could go on and on and on with similar examples in music, let alone art as a whole (the GOAT pop group, The Beatles, a very easy one that jumps to mind, for instance).

In this conversation, I don’t see a necessity in rigid tribalism.
“Science/data!! Nothing else!!” vs. “mysticism/God!! Nothing else!!”
No thanks.
It’s far more complex than that.

@mahgister 

Mystery  Something that is difficult or impossible to explain. backwards.

@tylermunns ,

All I did was indicate that music can be subjugated to notation. I never said it was not an art. Just like certain sports the best music comes from people with special musical brains Like Stevie Wonder or Ludwig Van. There are very few people capable of driving an F1 car at 200 MPH.  what can not be easily notated is the feeling behind the music which is what makes certain musicians better, None of this is difficult to explain, it is not a mystery or mysterious in any way. It certainly is wonderful. 

It’s the utter lack of mysticism that makes music special for me. It’s real, it’s right there, and unlike religious nonsense that leads to separations of cultures and endless violence, it does actual good.

Perhaps you must add to your lexicon a new concept based on consciousness experience , "spirituality", and keep the word "religions" for what it is : a social cultural phenomenon ... Lao Tse is not taoism , Buddha is not buddhism, Jesus is not Christianity , A map is not a territory...Especially highly distorted maps...

To say that society is based on love and understanding is to ignore what is actually happened over the ages...society is based mostly on greed, ignorance, exploitation of the weak, and polka music

Perceiving what phenomenon are really behind mere appearance is not being deluded...It is confusing some appearances with reality that is a sign of delusion ... See out and farthest than you nose instead of repeating common place facts as deep truths ...

We cannot perceive a new reality if we had not prepared ourself to perceive it first ..And if the times is not the right time ... It is call a "concept" ... Which concept is not only a mere abstraction but also a concrete new perspective and experience ... John Flamsteed do not perceive "a planet" called Uranus when he observed it long time before Herschel guess why ?

And dont repeat what Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab or some controller of the same ilk put in your brain for the sake of controlling all humans and abolishing freedom and all cultures because humans are all in there supposedly about fanaticism, greed , ignorance and exploitation .. Do you catch your own contradictions ?

To help you to understand cooperative communication role in Nature over the gross competitive interpretation of some Darwinist ideology about the fight for the fittest , i will suggest to read an article in the field of artificial intelligence about the way to design ecosystems of intelligence as put it by Karl Friston...Why ? Because Nature work at least as an intelligent cooperative ecological social entity not as a materialistic Victorian blind and deaf killing machine machine ...

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2212.01354.pdf

Now if you read 3,000 pages book in his resumed version of 700 pages about the rise and fall of societies and the role of cooperation which is more powerful than the survival fight as such, by Pitirim Sorokin, you will have a glimpse of what we spoke about all which  escape your narrow window ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitirim_Sorokin

And for music, i dont think you know much , because you seem to think of music as mere pleasant sound for you ... It is not...Music is through sounds but is not sounds pleasant to you ...It is not your hit parade ...

I will not go further...Too much space will be needed ...Suffice to say that all music of any kind is an emotional/body/mind/spirit experience ...All music resonate much at some level in yourself, and then the fact that you had never listen to a music that light the upper lantern of your mind "on" does not mean that this level does not exist ...

Feeling pleasure in hearing some music is not all there is about music ...Some music is a bit more than just a leisure goal distributed by corporations to make them happy when they go shopping ... Try the "art of the fugue" and think about what this work means ...Try the same after that with an Indian raga.... Then buy traditional Yoruba speaking drums and think about it ...After all that explain to yourself and others what is music and the relation between these three styles of consciousness experience and how they reflect in sound something with is not sound and is called a consciousness perceiving experience of different qualities and states...

«You cannot light a lampost by lighting it with another lantern»--Groucho Marx 🤓

«I dont share my light»--Anonymus lampost

It's the utter lack of mysticism that makes music special for me. It's real, it's right there, and unlike religious nonsense that leads to separations of cultures and endless violence, it does actual good. To say that society is based on love and understanding is to ignore what is actually happened over the ages...society is based mostly on greed, ignorance, exploitation of the weak, and polka music (although I kinda like Klezmer after working with the Klezmatics once). Keep your pseudo mystical baloney to yourself and give me some jazz. I mean some jazz, man.

We cannot see more than the way we love ....

Happy Holidays to all!

My ego is way too big to humble himself most of the times ...And only truth humble me, not daily trivial matter as my ignorance ... 😊

I really do not know him ...

I dont know much in jazz and in soul and blues etc ...

I will listen to him...But singing poetry in english is difficult to understand for me ...I used to read simplistic syntax with no metaphors...Philosophical or scientific english... All thinkers dont write english as the spanish Santayana ...😁

I love Bob Dylan but i miss half of his tropes and allusions ...I read Whitman and Dickinson in bilingual text ... 😁

I wish you a very lucky year ... It is coming , christmas will pass in 28 minutes here ...

You, as always humble yourself. You know who Smokey Robison is. He is a Motown (out of Detroit, Michigan USA) recording artist!

You, as always humble yourself. You know who Smokey Robison is. He is a Motown (out of Detroit, Michigan USA) recording artist!

Years ago, When Bob Dylan was asked who was his favorite poet he said Robinson, Smokey! Of Smokey Robison and the Miracles! 

I plead guilty of ignorance...

I will listen his poetry ...

Thanks 😊

The greatest American poets are Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson ..

My favorite American poet is Robinson, Smokey!

Oups!

I did not know him thanks...

😊😁😊

I think i will like him ...😉

He seems like a more terrestrial Sun Ra ... 😊

By the way I love Sun Ra, Lonnie Smith and Gabor Szabo...

@mahgister my dear friend, you are confusing Dr. Lonnie Smith who is one heck of a jazz artist with Lonnie Liston Smith.

The greatest American poets are Walt Whitman and Emily Dickinson ..

“Hope is the thing with feathers that perches in the soul - and sings the tune without the words - and never stops at all.” E. Dickinson

This world is not conclusion. A sequel stands beyond Invisible, as music But positive, as sound. E. Dickinson

«All music is what awakes from you when you are reminded by the instruments, It is not the violins and the cornets, it is not the oboe nor the beating drums, It is nearer and farther than they.» Walt Whitman

We are music.

I like to think of music as the universal language.

Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Woodstock - WE ARE STARDUST

Well I came across a child of God, he was walking along the road And I asked him tell where are you going, this he told me: Well, I’m going down to Yasgur’s farm, going to join in a rock and roll band. Got to get back to the land, set my soul free. We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon, And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

Well, then can I walk beside you? I have come to lose the smog. And I feel like I’m a cog in something turning. And maybe it’s the time of year, yes, and maybe it’s the time of man. And I don’t know who I am but life is for learning. We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon, And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

By the time we got to Woodstock, we were half a million strong, And everywhere there was song and celebration. And I dreamed I saw the bombers jet planes riding shotgun in the sky, Turning into butterflies above our nation. We are stardust, we are golden, we caught in the devil’s bargain, And we got to get ourselves back to the garden.

Writer(s): Joni Mitchell, Stormy Forest Masters Copyright: Crazy Crow Music

Great posts tyray...+2

We cannot prove anything important if we cannot create the world where what is important can be perceived to begin with ...

Philistine dont perceive mystery nor beauty, they trivialize it ... Or they reduce any myth to a comic book status... They dont understand myths nor creative imagination and they reduce mathematical concepts to mere computations ... Their idea of thinking resemble ideas of an accountant ...

By the way i love sun Ra,Lonnie Smith and Gabor Szabo...

And  mijostyn forgot  that the huge choral works of many centuries before Bach is completely mystical in his music ...It is impossible to listen to Josquin Des Prez or Hildegard of Bingen without entering meditative state and even ectasy...

Great post Tylermunns +2

@mijostyn

Obviously, my point that music, as a thing in human experience, is only partially explained when it is jotted down on a staff, still stands.
Just because we can read The Brothers Karamazov doesn’t mean we can scientifically explain the breadth and power of that work.

Confusing meanings with letters , Intelligence with A. I. , science and knowledge with technology is the symptom of our dying materialism era, culminating in transhumanism hubris...

@mijostyn 

Maybe in Indian music and other forms I am not familiar with, but western music is highly structured and deliberate, anything but mystical.

Obviously you’ve never listened to recording artists Gábor Szabó, Lonnie Liston Smith, Sun Ra, Earth Wind and Fire and so many others from the ’Age of Aquarius’. Heck even George Clinton had a Mothership!

@mijostyn 

Obviously, my point that music, as a thing in human experience, is only partially explained when it is jotted down on a staff, still stands.  
Just because we can read The Brothers Karamazov doesn’t mean we can scientifically explain the breadth and power of that work.  
Just because we can look at Head IV by Francis Bacon doesn’t mean we can scientifically explain why it is such a powerful work.  
Music can indeed be transcribed.  
So what?  
The little figures on a page don’t come close to really describing the human experience of listening to music. 

Music is not a science.  
It is an art.

@mahgister Happy Holidays to you!

Happy Holidays to all!!

"The Mystery Of Sound Is Mysticism"

The mystery of sound has been around since well, the big bang. It was only recently in the scheme of time that man took sound and made sonic drills. There’s no way that there are no more mysteries of sound to be found. That is pure absolutist thinking.

When I was 35, many years ago I volunteered for a blood pressure study at Morehouse College in Atlanta, GA. They wanted to scientifically measure the effects of ’Transcendental Meditation’ on blood pressure. We had a doctor of medicine who had studied under Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who brought ’Transcendental Meditation’ to the western world.

We practiced focus, breathing, stretching and other relaxation techniques to learn how to settle the mind/thoughts. After about 1 week we all got our ’Mantra’, which is a sound that was given to us in audible form. We were then told to repeat our mantra’s to ourselves in thought only - while employing the relaxation techniques.

These techniques were/are apart of the Indian culture for thousands of years and yet it took thousands of years to apply it scientifically to the western world. Oh boy did it lower our blood pressure and more importantly without any meds! I still use this un-audible form of meditation to this day.

If there are no Mysteries Of Sound (in Mysticism) would someone please explain to me how an UN-AUDIBLE SOUND can have such a dramatic and profound affect on our entire human physiology and psychology?

@mahgister, the world would so boring if we only had elitist scientist as a knowledge base. Thank GOD we have the Magi to give ancient writings of life’s wonders and gives us older folks the bright light of wonderment that we had when we were just a child!

There is a solid basis for love in nature and we are not the only animals that love.

But here you are right ...😊

Love and cooperation are the basis of society and even of nature...

Darwin has not see all there is to see ...

Pitirim Sorokin book is now forgotten but it was the greatest sociologist of his time and wrote about cooperation all along history and about the 5 dimensions of love in his mammoth book "Social and cultural dynamics" ... ..

Sorry mijostyn but you are often in reverse from reality... Even in audio ... 😁

IMHO we face mysteries when we do not know the answers

You confuse mystery with enigmas or riddles...Mystery are sacred meanings of what appear which wait for us and can transform ourself and not games to be win over and used and sold (technology) ...

Wisdom is not mere knowledge, knowledge is not mere science, science is not mere technology ...

We faced mysteries when we dont bother with limited ready made answers because we become children again or keep our childhood in us as a treasure and as the highest geniuses did  we then are able to see things always for the first time and without the veil of conditioning ...

We faced mysteries which are only evidence of deeper layers manifested in plain sight but unobserved because most adults are no more children nor geniuses ...

Read the physicist Bortoft analysis of Goethe method to understand ...

And remember Alexander Grothendieck one of the greatest mathematician since Riemann Gauss and Ramanujan who described part of his geometric algebraic intuition "children drawings" because in his word "what is really important never can be proven " but can be guessed and used by intuition and work through an illuminated by the creative imagination metamorphosed reason ...

Now try to relate Goethe method in morphology in plant and mammals and Grothendieck "dessins d’enfants" and you will catch what is a mystery, an infinite given in plain sight ...

https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/child%27s+drawing

because he was a mystic as was Cantor and spiritual as was Goethe he draw his christmas tree of knowledge ...

Grothendieck created Modern algebraic geometry singlehandly ...he is the master of Shinichi Mochizuki probably the greatest continuation of his work but in a com-plete new direction ...

From here :

http://www.neverendingbooks.org/category/imath/page/2