Am I missing something, or do people not realize they are buying your old gear for the sole purpose of selling it?
Of course they're only going to pay a fraction of what "it's worth". They need to make a profit to cover their costs of doing business. Selling gear can be a hassle sometimes and what you're doing is basically paying them to deal with that for the convenience of an instant sale and fast cash.
The actual cost of almost any physical good sold by a company is a fraction of what they sell it for. They have fixed costs they have to cover with that margin, - facility costs, payroll, insurance, power, phones, internet, marketing, sales, etc. etc. etc.
not to mention making sure they make a small profit and stay in business.
I am the guy that started this thread. I did purchase from them and was satisfied with the transaction.
They have a 45 day return policy and pay return shipping for defective items. So something does not ring true about lowrider57’s claim. That also makes me wonder if the 3x claim isn’t a bit exaggerated.
Big_Greg's comment does ring true. One thing he does not mention is that their 45 day return policy means they assume that risk as well. TMR’s return policy (from their web site: Every purchase made at www.tmraudio.com carries a full 45 day return policy**. If you purchased your product from us elsewhere, a standard 30 day term applies. If you’re not happy with your purchase for any reason or if you’ve simply changed your mind... no problem. Simply ship it back for a full refund or exchange (minus S&H costs). If you have received an item that is defective in some way, we will make it right. Let us know - we will pay for return shipping and repair the item or refund 100% of your original purchase price. New items that have been opened will generally incur a 15% re-stocking fee. ** Items purchased on tmraudio.com using “Bread” financing are subject to a strict 30-day return window which begins from date of purchase.
Ok, so dont believe me. I’ve been on this forum a lot longer than you. If you were familiar with my threads and comments you would see that I dont troll, exaggerate, or make negative comments. This is an old thread and last year I made positive comments about TMR. Had good transactions with them.
First point; Purist makes very fine cables and at that time I had Aqueous Luminist cables. So I wanted to add another Purist and because the age of the cable and ownership was unknown, I wanted the connectors fully checked out. After only good experiences with TMR, provenance was not an issue in this case. These were possibly abused cables or the connectors were stressed by a previous owner and should have been more thoroughly inspected by the techs when traded in. What are the odds of connectors on both ICs breaking off. I only just read about the 45 day warranty, I thought it was 30 days. So, my bad for not returning them.
Next item was an Atma-sphere UV-1 preamp with phono, highly modified by Ralph. My cost new was $2700 and I owned it for 2 years, still had a warranty (which was attractive to the eventual buyer). The offer from TMR was $300. I dont want to hear that they need to recoup operating costs and make a profit in this case. Put it up for sale here and at US Audiomart, had offers and took about a month to sell. Also included lots of NOS tubes and sold the unit for $1350. So there’s my story which may sound like fantasy or BS to you.
Hi lowrider57 I hear you on the cables and thinking you missed the return deadline. It is still surprising that you did not contact them, being so close to the perceived deadline. By your own account you considered them to be a reputable firm, and so at least some accommodation might have been expected.
I have to take you at your word on the UV-1 figures, so I apologize for the negative remark. Perhaps TMR have not had good experience reselling Atma-sphere equipment. I notice that Dick Olsher panned the phono stage in both Ablosute Sound and HiFi+. Enjoy The Music had no such reservations, however.
Even given that electronics tend to be undervalued when traded in, what amounts to a better than 75% discount seems a little steep. It worked out well for someone, though: The person who scored your 2 year old UV-1 for $1350. I wonder what you replaced it with.
Mark, Yeah I should have contacted them about the cables. A piece of one connector snapped off after about 2 months and the other cable not long afterward.
I hear you regarding the Atma-sphere. Maybe TMR didn’t really want the preamp, but they should have given me a reason. They could have said it would be tough for them to sell it, or maybe there’s not much demand. I did reply to show them past online sale prices which ranged from $1200 to $1500 and the rep wouldn’t change his offer. What makes me angry at them is it seems like they will buy or take a trade on anything. It's become a buyer beware situation for me.
I did hear from my buyer telling me that he was thrilled with the preamp. Since you asked, I upgraded to a used Audio Note linestage, the M2 Special which means it was a custom order with upgrades from the UK factory. I’m loving it.
Sorry for my harsh tone, but this has been a sore subject for me.
In my case it depended on what I was trying to sell them. They offered a crazy low price on a pair of speakers less than a year old, $500 for $4000 speakers, I passed on that. An amp they offered as much as I was offered here on A'gon after trying for a month to sell it, I took that offer.
TMR are making a living in the very tough used audio gear market. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Their prices are not too far above the general used marketplace and they, unlike sellers here and on USAM, offer a no questions asked return policy. I purchased a pair of very heavy and somewhat expensive mono amps from them, that I may not have purchased elsewhere without the option to return them if I didn't like them. It doesn't get much better than that in the used marketplace.
Regarding what they pay for used stuff, that is entirely their business based on their internal market research and perhaps even search requests they receive from their clients. I have traded in gear to them that I might have sold on the open market but trading it in was a good way to get the deal done.
I've never bought from them, but have seen plenty of their ads. From this thread, they seem to be trustworthy, but they currently have an ad for a B&O 8002 turntable with a clearly damaged dustcover hinge and no mention of it in the description. Plus, the TT has an 8/10 rating, even with the dustcover hinge damage and no headshell for the cartridge whose model is unverifiable. Thoughts?
I've never bought from them, but have seen plenty of their ads. From this thread, they seem to be trustworthy, but they currently have an ad for a B&O 8002 turntable with a clearly damaged dustcover hinge and no mention of it in the description. Plus, the TT has an 8/10 rating, even with the dustcover hinge damage and no headshell for the cartridge whose model is unverifiable. Thoughts?
My thoughts are that if I was interested in the item I would call them and ask about it.
I have had a negative experience with TMR.I attempted to review them on their feedback column but was blocked from doing so...no wonder they have a 100 per cent positive feedback.
The item they described as in perfect working order had issues.As we were in the middle of a cross country move I disposed of the tuner because of my frustration and hassles returing it etc.I contacted TMR.Although I realized I was ineligible for any refund I think they should have at least offered some sort of discount or minimal credit towards a future purchase.
I've bought a number of items from them with no issue. I just purchased a preamp and it arrived with one of the capacitors detached. I contacted them, sent them a photo, and they had a prepaid shipping label to me the same day, no questions asked, no hassle. It remains to be seen how long the repair and return takes, but they certainly responded quickly and appropriately to the issue.
The item they described as in perfect working order had issues.As we were in the middle of a cross country move I disposed of the tuner because of my frustration and hassles returing it etc.I contacted TMR.Although I realized I was ineligible for any refund I think they should have at least offered some sort of discount or minimal credit towards a future purchase.
I hope I remember to never sell anything to you. That problem lies with you, and you alone. Had the tuner been available, I am confident they would have made it right by you. As it was, all they had was your word, no proof of a problem. They are just supposed to assume that you are not a scammer? Electronics are not meant to withstand the abuse that can occur in shipment. I have had items I have sold leave my possession in perfect working order show up at someone else's home not working correctly. It happens. You never even provided an opportunity to make it right and then you want to hold them responsible? Sorry, but that is your fault.
I noticed their offer for your equipment is always very low and their selling price always on high side. It is a business and it's understandable. My experiences have been mostly positive other than their low balling offers.
They are honest but don't expect good deals. If you don't mind paying 10-25% more for typical used gears, they absolutely give you peace of mind --- as long as you don't need to return them.
Been a customer a few times. Stop dealing with them. Too many asterisks in their "good deals". That is ... their "good deals" tend to come with disclosed defects. Needs to compromise.
I deal with KahlAudio in New Jersey nowadays. Asking price is also higher too, but their items tend to be in way better shape --- rarely seen them with defect. Look for their auctions in eBay ... higher chance of good deals.
I am not associated with KahlAudio ... just another repeat customer.
I just bought a used ARC LS26 preamp from them. When I opened it up to put in the tubes, two of the capacitors were disconnected from shipping. I contacted them and they sent me a return authorization and shipping label right away. The return was painless and they had it fixed and back to me in a relatively short period of time. They couldn't find the exact capacitors so they put in ones that they said were better. Communication was great throughout the process and there were no questions asked, no hassle.
In regards to their prices, you get the best prices on their web site and I've seen things drop in price after they have them on their website for a while. I don't know if they do that with everything.
It's true. IMHO another way to spin this is that, TMR charges more on eBay since it is easier to make a case to return there. It's like hotel room booking or airline tickets nowadays. The non-refundable rate isn't cheaper --- the business simply charges more for flexibility. The profit is just as fine if everything's sold at the lowest price.
Like, there are many sellers in Audiogon who also list in USAudioMart or AudioAsylum. But the asking price is typically the same across, even when Audiogon isn't free. May be TMR's listing is merely an advertisement thing ... make the prospective buyers feel they are getting a better deal if buying direct from them, while getting more visibility for their items.
Nevertheless, my reason to stop dealing with them is the same. It's not with the pricing, but the quality of their offerings. They tend to come with considerable, disclosed defects.
I have never try their consignment process. Way too much risk shipping stuff around and then your hands are forced. An analogy is Enterprise Rent a Car. Yes they'd pick you up. But I experienced multiple times that they drove me there, then told me the car I booked wasn't available. Yea they overbooked, but blame multiple customers not returning the cars or the cars need "service" --- why not tell me before picking me up? They'd force me to pay a whole lot more to upgrade --- no free upgrade since the car would be available if I keep waiting. When requested to take me back home, they'd tell me they did not have anybody to drive me home (eventually they would, after waiting an hour or two). LOL, may be it's just an local New Jersey thing.
I'd rather support local business if I ever need to sell my stuff thru consignment.
I just completed my third transaction with TMR. I had a McIntosh MC 152 amp I was going to list here for $2500.00. On a whim, I contacted TMR about trading in my amp towards a McIntosh MC 302 amp. I was offered $2500.00 for my amp towards the MC 302 amp. They paid for the shipping of my amp to them and 9 days later I received the MC 302 amp. My total cost out of pocket was $2000.00 plus 150.00 for shipping (amp weighed 150 pounds) for the new amp.
The amp arrived in all the factory packaging and looked perfect. I honestly couldn’t find fault with the looks or sound. I am one very happy camper.
I have had multiple, excellent experiences with TMR. I sold/traded some big speakers toward some other speakers they had. I also bought McIntosh from them. I technically took a hit on the speakers-- but they made my life easy and that is worth a lot to me. I am local to them so I was able to do an in person swap.
The reason I mention this is if I had tried to sell the speakers here, the time, shipping, hassle, fees would have caused me stress...
If you understand how consignment of higher end goods work (Watches, Guitars, or Audiophile gear), here is what I have come to see as "fair" and "industry norm" over the years.
Forget "List/Retail" pricing, or what you paid "New"
Find the average used sale price (eBay, Forums, etc.) [factor condition]
Now subtract 30% from that #2 [Average Used Sale Price, which could be HIGHER than what you paid in rare/collectable circumstances]
Example: If speakers cost you/listed for $5000, but they are selling for ~$3000 used, take 30% off. $3000 - $900 = $2100 would be the "fair/nominal" amount you should expect. If you can do better reselling yourself, then by all means, you should. (In my scenario, a $900 hit, was insurance against shipping/packaging issues, time spent photographing/posting, PayPal/Audiogon fees, and not having to deal with the general public). Personally, I will take 'time' over 'money'. YMMV.
I ordered a pair of speakers on Mar 1 from the Music Room and as of Mar 15, no speakers. Probably FedEx is to blame but perhaps TMR should be more careful with their choice of shipping partner.
It is thrilling to see all of the discussion taking place here. I don't usually jump into these conversations, but I just can't help myself in this case. Any business that sells over 6000 pieces of USED consumer electronics every year will undoubtedly have some significant issues along the way. I like to think that it's how we deal with these issues that counts. Our 100% feedback ratings here and on eBay should surely speak volumes about our commitment to doing the right thing by our customers 100% of the time. As far as the notion of "low-ball" offers, we don't make ANY money if someone refuses our offers. So obviously, low-balling people is no way to build a business. The fact is that our buyers appraise over 20,000 pieces of used gear every year representing over 600 unique brands and 5+ decades. Your local car dealer only has to know how to navigate an annually published NADA bluebook covering a handful of brands to give you a fair trade offer. There's simply no comparison, and like it or not, we're just going to be wrong sometimes. When that happens, we're just like anyone else - we want to hear back from you and have a conversation to learn where we might have gone wrong. And if we don't see things, the same way? Well, there's no hard feelings. We're just a bunch of music-loving, audio-geeks trying to have fun while making a living in our little warehouse just outside of Boulder, Colorado. Drop me a line sometime at feedback@tmraudio.com with any comments or questions- good or bad. I'll be happy to listen and learn how we can keep improving our service here. Thanks again to all of our loyal customers!
These people are fantastic. Great communication, lots of assistance, excellent packaging, lightning delivery. Have never experienced anyone better on Audiogon. They are the best!
I purchased a CJ S/S amp from them, it turned out that it wasn't a good fit for my system at that time. I inquired about trade in value, they emailed back, "why would we buy it back? If you don't like it, and aren't going to use it, send it back and we'll refund your money". 30 days after purchase. Their return policy is good as gold. You might pay a little more, but pretty much, satisfaction guaranteed. Have made several purchases from them, haven't had a single issue.
I wish I had known that. I also bought a CJ solid state amp, the MF2550 and within the first 2 days decided it wasn't a good fit. I just assumed that you buy it you own it. I sold mine here at a 500.00 loss. Live and learn. My most recent purchase at the beginning of this year was a Mac MC302 amp which I got a fantastic deal on after trading a smaller Mac amp to them It looked brand new and sounds like it!
My recent dealing with TMR was not so favorable, especially after reading all the positive reviews.
Before I decided to keep my amp, I had thought about selling it to TMR. The amp is the latest recently released model, A stock, pristine and 9 months old. The offer they gave me for the amp was way too low. The worst part is that the individual I was dealing with justified the price he would pay me by saying TMR would then turn around and resell the amp for less than the years old previous, outdated models were going for on the used market.
I do get the feeling that I was dealing with a newly hired individual who was trying to impress his employer and noted another poster here had a not so good experience with him also.
If you want to get the most from your used gear, sell it yourself. If you sell it to a dealer, they need to make a profit on it and are going to pay you a lot less. How hard is that to understand? It sounds like they were pretty transparent with you. What is "less than favorable" about that experience?
Thanks for saying the obvious big_greg, how hard is that to understand? I'm a certified public accountant, somewhere along the line after many years of experience I have finally learned the very hard to understand fact that the a dealer needs to make a profit.
At the price I wanted to get for it, they would have made a quick $500-$600 if they sold it for what the previous discontinued used models were going for, but likely more because it is the recently released more expensive updated model. We are only talking about an amp which when new sells for $3,150 and is a no brainer to sell. The only reason I thought about selling it to TMR is to not deal with hassle of dealing with buyers if selling it myself. If you look at the posts above by sellers you will see others have the same thoughts as I do.
I'm a certified public accountant, somewhere along the line after many years of experience I have finally learned the very hard to understand fact that the a dealer needs to make a profit.
The only reason I thought about selling it to TMR is to not deal with hassle of dealing with buyers if selling it myself.
So you admittedly understand better than most people the costs of doing business and you wanted them to perform the service of selling the item for you, but somehow you're unhappy with your experience in spite of their complete transparency about how they do business? OK
I get what you are saying. If in your viewpint life someone is transparent and tells you that they are going to pay you a ridiculously low price for something, and then tells you they will sell it for much less than you know they will, that it is ok. So be it. No so in my experience.
They have a business to run, they arent trying to collect audio gear and if someone doesnt like the price they offer, dont sell it. They must buy at a price where they can make a fair return along with the risk that not everyone fully and accurately discloses condition. I think its silly that people complain that they dont get offered full retail for their preowned gear. Jeez.
This is ridiculous.
If as you say your amp was a "no brainer to sell," then sell it yourself. If you don't like their prices or conditions, then don't deal with them....simple.
TMR runs a well-managed business, they stay true to their business model, and the results of that model have allowed them to stay in business longer than most who play in the same arena. TMR has cultivated a client base by;
Careful buying of gear/speakers that are in relatively good operational and cosmetic condition
Internal inspection of the gear/speakers before putting items up for sale
Relatively competitive prices for the age and condition of the gear/speakers they sell - not the lowest price you will find but in most cases well within the range
Excellent packaging and shipping practices
Stand behind the operational and cosmetic condition of sold items
Offer a 30-day money back return policy (virtually unheard of in the used market!)
As stated previously by @rikkitik
If you don't like it, and aren't going to use it, send it back and we'll refund your money". 30 days after purchase. Their return policy is good as gold. You might pay a little more, but pretty much, satisfaction guaranteed.
I confirmed that return policy with them before purchasing a pair of $7K amplifiers, which I ultimately decided to keep.
Hi gents, just circling around to this thread, I have no money issues that a buck or two or hundred or thousand would matter to, so just stick by your posts and the best to you.
This vendor has a lot of favorable comments - but I have had a very unfavorable experience with them this Dec 2019. I have sent all my trade items & $400 via PayPal to them (per our email agreement) - all of which The Music Room has been confirmed to have rec'd. Despite my many emails they do not get back to me on the status of my trade shipment of a Rega turntable. I have called them multiple times - no help nor affirmative assistance - on the two phone calls they state that I have to deal with their employee (Mike Dean) by email - and only him, though Mike does not respond - its been a week now, and I have rec'd nothing back on my many email inquires. I cannot recommend that you deal with The Music Room, and currently I do not believe that they are legit. If they don't make right in the next day or so I will have to file a complaint with the BBB.
I traded in a McIntosh MC152 amp for a McIntosh MC302 amp and within 4 days of TMR receiving my amp, they shipped out the new one to me. When they receive trade in items, they thoroughly check them first. Perhaps at this time of year, they are a little overwhelmed with many trades coming in and it takes a bit longer. You sound like a VERY impatient individual. Threatening to complain to the BBB solves nothing and will not make your new toy arrive any faster. If I was Josh at TMR, I would ship your used equipment back to you and not do business with you. I have had 4 transactions with TMR and I am 1000000%satisfied. They are great to deal with and I put them in the same class as Audio Classics.
Nobody and no company is perfect. However, there are many here who have had very positive experiences with them. The person who needs to look at your equipment could be out sick like many other people with all the viruses going around now. I do agree that somebody should be able to tell you something, like your place in the queue or an estimated date when you should expect to hear something. Maybe be a little patient and call back in a couple of days. We have a saying at work, “don’t assume bad intent.” Good luck.
When PS Audio offered the P15 power regenerator, I dealt with TMR to trade in my P10 and the transaction could not have been better. I was able to give my details (including credit card number) over the phone, they sent me a Fedex or UPS label via email, and in a very reasonable amount of time the P15 arrived.
The Music Room address is published on their web site. It is: 410 Jones Court, Erie, CO 80516.
I just sold my Interconnect cables using The Music Room and the transaction was excellent. TMR suggested a consignment sale, a suggested selling price (I agreed) and sent me a FedEx mailing label so I could mail them the cables at their expense. They took excellent pictures, completed an excellent product description and listed the cables for sale on their web site, Audiogon and eBay. They answered product questions, handled offers for the cable and it was finally sold. My payment was mailed to me today via check with the USPS.
If a product does not sell, The Music Room reduces its price by 1% approximately every 2 weeks until it is sold. Buyers can either buy it now or make an offer to purchase the product.
Depending on the equipment, sometimes, they will make a cash offer. I recommend The Music Room for buying audio equipment and also for consignment sales.
Recently purchased a Sugden LA-4 Masterclass preamp which turned out to have a defective IR receiver, so no remote volume.
They sent a RA which paid for shipping, reported the found defect, informed me Sugden would need to supply from England. Repaired and returned. Clockwork response, repair and return.
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