The Importance of the Digital Cable

@unsound I  was replying to the comment before yours to ghprentice. And I don't take disagreement personally. 

@yuviarora, If your responding to my last post; let me offer an apology for not being more specific. I was referring to your 9/13/21 post.
The again, you might not care. It seems as though you don’t care what others think, but you post your thoughts. Hmmm?

The science on the "screw" is very easy to explain.....The inductor generates an electric field, and the composition of the mounting screw reacts to that generated field, changing the sound. I am not speaking of anything theoretical in my case, the changes are very easy to hear. 
The Nylon screw tilts the treble of my system a bit hot, and the stainless screw gives it more body. It's not a a small change. 
And people can think  whatever they  wanna think, I have long since stopped caring about that stuff. 

Yes, everything matters.

System resolution determines the degree to which those sonic changes are noticable. Many think we are batty because the sound systems they listen to are not quite resolving enough to hear any significant changes.

@yuviarora, Actually that’s not true. Though they may issues of their own; optical transmissions don’t comply with your parameters.

And you wonder why lots of people think we are screwy.

@ghdprentice Even the screws that I use to mount my inductors on my speaker crossovers changes the sound on my system. Nylon vs stainless steel, vs inverting the stainless steel.
I have friends that confirmed this, so it is not just me experiencing a confirmation bias.
EVERYTHING MATTERS. and you are 100% right.

The old audiophile adage, “everything matters” is very true. No matter how many times I wish it didn’t, it does.

I just have to say, this evening I’ve been listening to the Black Cat SilverStar MkII drinking a few wee drams of Finlaggan single malt scotch, and, well, wow! Resolution and transparency of this Chris Sommovigo masterpiece is just off the charts! The Veloce is a fine cable indeed, but it is completely eclipsed here by its up-the-range sibling. Each type of transport I’ve tried sounds different with this cable. The whole; ‘the transport doesn’t really make a difference’ thing is simply wrong. This cable has demonstrated that to me very clearly.

Aubreybobb, that is fascinating. Could you clarify what is needed to complete the optical chain you describe from router to amplifier? A set of transceivers (one to send at one end of cable and one to receive at the other I presume?) then stp glass optical cable to carry the signal? So is the tranceiver connectable to the DAC’s ‘toslink’ port? Could you suggest a model of transceiver? How would that be accomplished? Just trying to understand more clearly how to do this.

Thanks much
AK

Jim (Tomic601), thats one heck of a system. Must sound amazing. I heard an aesthetix preamp years ago and was bowled over by how much insight it brought to the sound. Haven’t heard the Lampizator yet but by all accounts it phenomenal.

Desktopguy, thats a great example. Oyaide has a great reputation. It’s easy to discount these things, but to know, one must try it out. For my system, the Black Cat SilverStar has elevated the sound very significantly. My son has good ears and he is equally impressed.

Hi Unfairlane,

you said do an ok job. Respectfully, that is just the point. There is an ok job, and then there is an outstanding job. I understand a regular rca cable might actually work, as in generate sound. But it will sound nothing like the SilverStar. The Canare produced good results. Just not as good as the Veloce, and certainly not anything like the SilverStar

Haha MacDude, i have to say I agree with you that the Black Cat SilverStar (even the Veloce) are just one another level compared to the Canare. 

Ghdprentice, that is well stated. Thanks

OP Thanks for your report. Amazing isn’t it. You can do all the thinking about how much something shouldn’t mater, or how could things sound better… but when they do it is obvious and amazing.

Hello all,

An update and a bit of a review…

Fellow audiophile CFarrow, has very kindly sent me the Black Cat SilverStar 75 and which I received on Wednesday evening.

I couldn’t wait to try it and at my son’s behest, headed over to his house that very evening so we could both listen. To think that only 6 months or so ago i never considered that the digital cable could impact the sound to such a degree. In highly resolving systems, even small changes can have a profound impact in the sound overall.

The Veloce has proven to me how a carefully designed and engineered digital cable will bring out the music to much better effect. Better organization of the soundstage with more space between instruments (less homogenized). Clearer lines defining images. Better dynamic shading leading to improved dynamics and musical presence. Better definition throughout the frequency range.

The latest upgrade thanks to CFarrow, re-affirms to me that digital cables are not created equal and can sound different. The SilverStar sounds even better than the Veloce. How can that be? The adage goes that one can’t imagine it sounding much better until one hears it for oneself. The same kind of improvements noted above going from the Canare to the Veloce describe what I observe, only those improvements are greater; i.e greater clarity and musical energy overall.

I played several CDs that evening, all demonstrating to my son and I how great the Black Cat SilverStar is.
The Corrs, an excellent album by the Irish family band honouring their mother by playing a collection of the Irish music she best loved.  Not an audiophile grade album of highest quality in terms of sonic quality but superb nonetheless. Andrea Corr’s voice was dominant. It was palpable and human, even moreso than the Veloce. The energy of the band was fully realized. Drums had real force and energy. Cymbals vibrated and sizzled. The soundstage widened and deepened even more. Instrument tones and textures were rich.
But when i put on The Fixx, an album I have had since the early 90’s, I approached that audio nirvana. I know this album well and have listened many times over the decades. It is well recorded. In fact now i know it is very well recorded. The energy and clarity was breathtaking. Sounds were jumping way outside from the speakers I hadn’t ever experienced in listening to this album. Perhaps it was a culmination of the system as a whole. This is the first time playing this album on my son’s system; a Devialet Expert Pro 220 connected using the Black Cat Silverstar and fed by a Parasound Halo D3 as transport driving Magico S3s, so it was likely a combination of everything together that contributed to such a stellar result.

We ended the session listening to the inimitable Jagjit Singh, and Mehdi Hassan. The SilverStar conveyed all the nuances even more effectively than the Veloce. At that point we wound up the session as we both had to turn in and get up for work early in the morning.

in concluding I will say that the SilverStar may not be for every system. It is an amazing cable that delivers so much detail and information. If a system is inherently bright, this might be a bit too much of a good thing. Such systems require tuning down upper frequency detail a wee bit. For me though, the SilverStar is superb. It works perfectly with neutral sounding systems and adds much. My audio journey continues.

Thanks so much CFarrow.

I think that it's worth doing to the conversation that DACs are effected differently by jitter. My old school Monarchy DAC handles it poorly, to the point that I got a jitter box (that's old guy speak for a component that just reclocks the data stream). My Benchmark, on the other hand, doesn't care about what source I use, or what cable.

This is not true. As mentioned by several here; the "digital" signal is actually electric and any ic might do a ok job, just try. Don`t let the salesman fool you

This is not true.  As mentioned many times here digital signal is affected by time jitter (doesn't come in even intervals) producing added noise after D/A conversion.  One of the causes of the jitter are reflections of the signal inside of the cable on characteristic impedance boundaries.   Expensive digital cable might be (other than better shielding) not better than the cheap one.  It is all system dependent and better cable will be the one that has characteristic impedance matching better (especially to DACs input impedance).  Analog cables are likely to cause jitter since they are not designed for any specific characteristic impedance (not important for analog signals in audio band).  Some DACs might have strong jitter suppression but other DACs will be affected.  Jitter is the main cause why digital often sounds bright and harsh in comparison to analog.

Black Cat makes a hell of a digital cable…

Yes, that Black Cat digital cable is out of this world. 

Made my previous one sound broken.

redwoodaudio:

"  Make sure that you’re not using “analog” xlr cables for a “digital” signal. They look the same and have same XLR type connectors (although digital cable usually called AES) but different design internally.

same goes for unbalanced… spdif and analog interconnects both have RCA connectors but very different design internally."

This is not true. As mentioned by several here; the "digital" signal is actually electric and any ic might do a ok job, just try. Don`t let the salesman fool you

When I first picked up a SPDIF converter (Musical Fidelity V-Link 96), I suddenly had the option of running either optical or coax cable from it to the DAC. I started with a glass optical cable and thought it sounded better than USB straight into the DAC (that's why years later, I'm still using SPDIF converters).

Then I read that digital coaxial cables might sound better than optical. So I picked up a 1.5M inexpensive Billy Jeans coax cable. And damned if they weren't right--it did sound better. So it was coax from then on.

Then I read that coax cables have a "sound" just like any other component. Easy to believe this--everything seems to have a sound. Read a few rave comments & reviews about Oyaide coax cables, particularly the silver DR-510 (1.3M). It's not cheap, but I figured what the hell, and bought one direct from Oyaide (many cables marked as Oyaide on eBay are copies). 

The DR-510 immediately sounded significantly better than anything I'd heard before. Here it is ~6 years later and that cable has never left my system. I'm about to install a DDC (Matrix X SPDIF 2) and that Oyaide cable is staying right where it is...

Cannot offer any explanation as to why but this has been the cable in my system that blew me away.  I have tried expensive speaker and interconnects over the years and have not been able to appreciate much, if anything.

I had a 30yo Audioquest CinemaQuest cable that I used when I got my Bluesound Node 2i and Schiit Gungnir Multibit.  I called Audioquest and asked what they suggested.  

They said their current entry models would be a lateral move to at least jump to the Carbon.  I found one on Amazon half price and was so shocked.  It was an immediate improvement in every aspect of the sound.  It has made me want to try yet another jump in level or brand but I have no idea where to go next so just enjoying it for now.

@saleh84
Best "simple" answer ever.  I would just add that sometimes noise and such could make the arriving "bit" look like it's somewhere halfway between the "on" level and the "off" level.  Trigger the DAC "interpolation
algorithm".
Andrew

I am a multiple disciplinary engineer, I manufacture and I make my own cables.  All my personal speaker, interconnects and digital cables are silver. The value of my cable loom exceeds the value of the components in my system.

My USB cable has no solder joints in it at all. Solder joints increase the possibility of signal degradation.  Speaking of signal degradation, just transmitting a signal through a conductor changes the signal. The question is, how much, can you hear the difference, and what can you do to change it. Then there is the question of the environment and how much it is influencing the conduction of the signal through the conductor. Shielding can be a good thing or a bad thing and it all depends on how it is implemented.

The concepts of what is "better" and "quality" when making a choice, which starts with the senses and the brain ending up including psychoacoustics and just how good is your hearing, in this case, drives purchase decisions and appreciation of a product in a system.

I chose a custom made biaxial cable with premium connectors for the connection between CD transport and DAC using SPDIF ports. I chose a custom USB between my custom built computer and my DAC. I made these choices because they are what works best IMO in my system based on testing.

Those of you who use fibre for digital should be aware that older transducers use LED's which are slow and not very accurate - the electronics are pretty poor too.  I guess most toslink falls into this category. Unfortunately, this pretty much negates the advantage one would expect from the abscence of rfi/emi interference that fibre promises.

Newer ones use lasers and high quality electronics and combine this with good glass (instead of plastic) cable.  The improvement, in my opinion, is about like going from the lower models in a copper range to very near the top.    Doesn't break the bank.  Top quality for a set of transceivers and glass cable is around USD 200- 300/- not thousands!

Of course you have to have sfp ports in your equipment for best results. 

If no sfp ports, there is a workaround - one can use video converters also (v cheap) at either end of the path.  This helps, but it is more complex in terms of cabling and components, and the result is not quite as spectacular. 

Hope this is useful
Best wishes 

USB if done right, is a great  way to connect your PC to your DAC. 
However, outside of a quality USB cable, another thing to look at is a dedicated USB Card  with a linear of battery power supply. You do not  want to use system power, it causes all sorts of issues. 
I have a Matrix USB 3.0 card, connected to a deep cycle 12V battery, using Neotech Legenburg 20 gauge OCC Copper cables. Even the quality of the metal of the DC plug used changes the sound coming out of your speakers, use pure copper ones if you can. 

Everything in the Audio Chain affects sound, every connecter, piece of  wire, capacitors, inductors, Fuses, cables, shielding.... you name it :)
It's pretty fascinating really :)

I use a variety of AQ, Nordost, Cardas and Kimber cables across 3 systems and a mobile recording rack. All manner of cables; Ethernet, SP/DIF, Optical, etc….to exotic 128v dbs speaker wire.

My journey is my own. i make no assertion i am Einstein.

For brevity  on just Sp/dif. I agree BNC both ends IF your gear supports it, learn to solder if it does not. I don’t care for bnc to rca adapters, others may disagree. My DAC is very intolerant of them.

In a nutshell AQ Eagle Eye vs Nordost Silver Shadow has AQ being much more neutral but ultimately a touch less resolving. The Shadow is punchy and more “ Hi-Fi “. Bit of etched treble as might be characterized as the Nordost house sound. Ultimately i have both w different DACs for system synergy ; AQ w Aesthetix and Nordost w Lampizator.

Enjoy the music.

Jim

Will get it sent out by the end of the week, the SilverStar is a nice upgrade over the Veloce and BlackCat cables are a lot of bang for the buck!  I have a Esoteric N-05 all in one Streamer Dac but like my system better with my Ypsilon Dac in the chain via a Shunyata Sigma digital cable.  

@cfarrow 
You're a class act.
Good on you.

Tomic601,

Thanks for that great comment;

‘what a nice thing to upgrade that cable for you - class act ! ‘

Yes CFarrow is exceptionally generous and I am very grateful. I will report on my findings when I get it installed. 
You are right, it is a wonderful voyage and I am getting ever closer to the objective of ‘high-end’ sound. 

Hi Bigkidz. I understand why you might not see such a major impact from cables, because you build your components tailored to your overall system requirements and probably taking into account measures around noise elimination. That’s so cool that you build your own components. I’m guessing you are a manufacturer, but won’t put you on the spot and ask ; )
The dedicated all-in-one streamer is definitely the future in my modest opinion . A top notch streamer with everything integrated also includes cabling throughout the signal path, so such a solution is beneficial. But its nice to have the flexibility of changing the DAC as we know that DACs sound so very different in the way they present music and i feel are such a key component with audio. I can usually tell the difference between a ladder DAC and Sigma Delta type DAC. The R2R DAC has a certain ease to the sound - very un-forced. Its a big open soundstage and the sound extends and is focused a bit farther back, so perhaps a bit more laidback sound. However the detail is still all there, just a little less thrust forward.
Thanks Classdstreamer, I will review that video. 

I find it so surprising that these digital cables can have such a major impact on the sound. It goes to show that some of these frontiers we are bridging here as audiophiles can not be easily explained, although the noise factor, cable refections, and metallurgy / topology are key. Audio is a complex pursuit, but I guess that is part of the joy. I am now understanding that, as you note above,  components interact in different ways with seemingly inconsequential changes to configuration, especially with cables. Makes one ponder on some of the other future-think ‘tweeks’ pursued by folks such as Miller Carbon. So easy to guffaw at these ‘out there’ quantum physics type of things because we don’t understand it. But the changes can be profound when we get everything in synergy. My guess is Miller Carbon’s system sounds pretty incredible.

Hey OP,

A British Audiophile recently published a video related to your topic--on the space between the streamer and DAC--and he also runs a Pontius. So you may want to check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tKWWs-OMxw

I'm in the process of upgrading my streamer. My new streamer has USB and coax out, while my old streamer has only optical out. My DAC accepts all three connections. One interesting takeaway for me from the video above was to make sure to audition the USB connection. Although most audiophiles here seem to prefer a coax connection over USB, it's possible that my combination of streamer and DAC may be best over USB. We'll see. I'm still in the process of listening critically. 

A digital coaxial cable's signal runs in one direction but a digital optical cable has no arrows on it?

the wire and construction make a difference no doubt.  I have tried too many cables to even mention.  One may sound good in your system but not in another system.  Depends on what you are looking for.  I have not found a cable to transform my system as I build my own components.

Funny thing is a few years back we won best of show with an Adcom interconnect that we ripped in two - all copper - as the digital cable.  Go figure.

Happy Listening.

@tomic601  

I am considering audioquest and nordost for a 2 channel setup I’m looking into. Are you talking about just digital cables of the two or do you have them as speaker and power cords as well? Could you tell me the differences between them you have found? 

I'm no expert myself but as a simplification, yes )
Digital cables do have an great impact. Even ethernet if you were streaming, which is even more strange and I can't explain it to myself yet. Those network data packets are supposed to check for errors. But with a revealing system, you could clearly do what a proper ethernet cable like AQ diamond does. Even if upgrading from another lower level AQ ethernet cable. I was a skeptic till i heard myself!

5 volts

what a nice thing to upgrade that cable for you - class act ! 

I think the bnc connection should be the standard for SP-DIF….

I use both Audioquest and Nordost - they are night and day different, both w strengths. Tastes vary, thank God not everybody likes Talisker

Reflected trash is very real. Dealing with it is one reason why your gps satellite…works..

Sounds like the OP is on a wonderful voyage..

Thanks for clarifying Saleh. Yes, I believe I get it -  that the zero / one is an expression of on off for electrical signal, where certain amplitude is represented as a binary, which is in actuality an electrical signal. So, say ten zeros and five ones in a specific on/off configuration represents a certain analogue signal. Thats a gross simplification but is that what is correct?

Digital is not really Digital. The cable does not carry zero and ones. They are a concept!
The cable does carry a faint electrical signal that represents zeros and ones.
If the cable is not optimal, errors can happen. Out of a crazy amount of zeros and ones that passes, some can flip status. This can be heard.
its different from using a cable to copy files from one hard desk to another where there is a protocol to measure error and request the wrong data again. In audio, as far as i know, its a one way flow.

Thanks for the heads up Redwoodaudio! LoL you must have read my mind as i was thinking to try an regular IC XLR cable as AES/EBU digital which I most certainly won’t now.

Hi Andrew,

the Veloce surprised me, its sound was so much better than the Canare. So much better. Yes I would agree on Black Cat’s cable. I would love to get into the Coppertone ICs and SCs. By all account they are marvellous performers. The construction is slightly outside the norm, and they are beautifully made. I would say the Black Cat is slightly more delicate than some cables so has to be treated with at least moderate respect and care. 

GHD LoL! You are not alone on the memory front. I do like the ‘Transparent’ sound. Having heard the newer range I can say with certainty that the newer version of Ultra is much more capable that the old pair I have. I do have a pair of Audioquest Type 4 speaker cables and they sound quite good especially considering the price. I took home on trial from Bestbuy a pair of ‘Oak’ I believe it was, and was not impressed. Thought the soundstage was strangely forced and un-natural.

A major recognition of CFarrow. Thank you kindly sir.

Black Cat makes a hell of a digital cable… 

Make sure that you’re not using “analog” xlr cables for a “digital” signal. They look the same and have same XLR type connectors (although digital cable usually called AES) but different design internally.

same goes for unbalanced… spdif and analog interconnects both have RCA connectors but very different design internally.

PM and I will send you the next model up in the black cat line up the Silverstar 75 Mkii model and it’s quite a bit better than the model you have…it’s on the house.