The Growing Challenge of Buying NOS/NIB Tubes
An old forum post recommended The Tube Museum to source NOS/NIB tubes. I noted it has Siemens Halske and Telefunken ECC802S tubes for sale on The Tube Museum website. I asked Mark for a matched pair of Telefunken ECC802S or Siemens Halske ECC802 tubes. He said he had a pair but the link he provided were for Siemens E82CC and when I questioned whether they were true equivalents, this was his response:
You are incorrect.
These are TRUE AUTHENTIC TELEFUNKEN < > DIAMOND ECC802S.
Makes me think you are seeing the wrong pictures. Or, are ignorant about Telefunkn ECC802S tubes and their inner architecture.
E82CC Siemens are TOTALLY different - se he 2 meal tabs? See the < > between the glass.
You don’t know what you are talking about. Please, don’t insult my intelligence.
Mark
Needless to say, I was taken back by the tone and content of his response and the barrage of equally insulting emails that followed from Mark even though I told him I didn't want to hear from him anymore. SH ECC 802 tubes have a triple Mica and are not the same as standard E82CC Siemens or, in terms of quality, an Ulm Tele ECC802S. It gets weirder. The Tube Museum continues to show and offer for sale true SH and Tele ECC802, but when you try to order them, Mark tries to sell you something different and claims equivalency. When you question Mark, this is the response you get.
It's a further example of how hard it is to find reliable sources for genuine NOS/NIB tubes that are accurately described. I've had better results buying from European sources lately.
If a vendor said that to me I would tell him to take his tubes and shove them far up his ass and put all his emails in my SPAM folder. There are other tube vendors out there, such as Brent Jesse ( have bought many tubes from him and he was great to deal with), RAM Tubes, TC Tubes, Upscale Audio, etc. Good luck. |
The person who tests my Tubes is a owner of a two generation Valve collection and knows so much about tubes and how they can influence a device. Occasionally a selection of Late 50's to early 60's era matched tubes are put in a line up for demonstration purposes on devices that are brought along and used in the resident system. It is not exactly tube rolling, but more of a unobtanium experience to be encountered by those invited. Some Pairs of Tubes are hardly seen as pairs for sale and to buy them as singles would be quite a expensive purchase when they do appear in the market place. What usually happens a stock tube is swapped out for a Tube that has a reputation and the lesson of why the reputation is in place, is soon learnt. The usual thoughts are that not much more is to be achieved, but then it happens, a Tube is put into service that has a rarity, and all heads start looking around to see if the reaction is reciprocated, the inquiry is usually made as to how difficult to source these types, and this is from a Cold Tube. Then it happens, without anybody knowing, the Hens Teeth of Tubes is put into service, and the absolute magic happens, it is something like the system has been exchanged for a whole new set up, costing much more. As the Tube owner usually states, all that being achievable from a simple swap of a Tube, not much need to be Hi Tech and very achievable for a novice as well. I agree with this, Tubes are able to make substantial changes to a systems SQ. To achieve the exchange there is not a high level of knowledge required. There is a knowledge that comes through experiencing Valves from many era's and having the best samples of these Valves in ones possession is not a common happening. Finding owners of such collections is not easy and finding an owner who is willing to share in their experiences through demonstrating the Valves is even rarer. As the owner has unusual devices made available to have their Valves used on, it broadens their own experiences of where the Valve can offer the best interface. I have been extremely grateful for my invites and the learning that has been achieved.
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The best tubes that I ever bought were from a guy that if i met him in person, we would be in a fist fight, and I would be winning. Don't need the long pauses and sighs during a phone conversation. Thing is, this guy knows his stuff better than anyone that I have met in the past. The tubes are freakin great. So maybe it's like back in the old days when a drug deal was made in the alley and not in a commercial shop. |
don‘t think so @dekay their modus operandi are quite different |
"Old Guy Radiola" and "bangybangtubes" are one and the same - the owner has traded under other names as well. Track record for shonky trade practices including gold plating pins to pass off regular tubes as specials (check out Audio Asylum before you let go of your cash). The prices charged are generally 3-4 x retail value. Swamps ebay with ads.
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What you described sounds like hypersensitivity. I think i had something of a similar experience except when i called he said he didn't have any tubes to sell. If it is the same person he is going thru something very personal although this does not excuse his attitude. It is also possible he has fallen into the bottle and is on a downward spiral. Aside from that, these tubes guys are grossly overpricing their tubes(.) |
It seems that some of you know or know about Mark at TTM. Has anybody here made a satisfactory purchase? I wasn't aware of this dealer but he has a good website, good info, and lists some stellar tubes. The holy grail tubes are indeed very expensive, but when I searched for more common tubes the prices seemed fine. |
I suspect that TTM had a very good supply at one time, but as its inventory of good NOS/NIB tubes has been depleted over the years all it can do is draw the prospective customer in with images of past stock and then pivot a potential sale to a different tube by pitching equivalency. The bigger concern is, as pindac pointed out: The Tube Museum trying to bully through the sale. So much of the fun of this hobby is building relationship with others who have the passion and have a wealth of knowledge that they are willing to share. If the is no evidence of that from the outset, then I simply walk away, which I did in this case. I agree that new tubes from the big producers are good. I'm going to try the new 12AU7 Telefunkens and compare them to my NOS Tele ECC802Ss. I recently compared the Psvane ACME 274b to the Richard Kron 5U4G. Both were excellent, though I preferred the KR 5U4G. Better holographics and overall frequency control. I have the Psvane 12AU7s and they are very good. Cheers,
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I have bought tubes from The Tube Museum in the past. The guy who operates as The Tube Museum has advertised many very nice tubes and the ones I bought were as advertised. I was happy with my purchase. However, if there is any doubt in your mind about the tubes you are buying from TTM, pass and find them elsewhere. The guy seems to want to drive customers away. As you learned, if you have any problems with the tubes or ask the wrong question, he becomes very defensive and starts insulting you and questioning your integrity. I guess he must have good tubes because it's not his personality keeping him in business. |
I have met this type of response before from a a few Valve Sellers. Some individuals try to bully the sale through, and resent a reasonable inquiry being made. My own line of inquiry can really inflame these types of individuals unsavoury side. Buying Valves is a Caveat Emptor undertaking and the devil is in the details. I Buy Matched Pairs usually, but don't buy Valves now, unless the Vendor agrees to the request being made by myself to have the Valves measured on a Third Parties Test Equipment. If the measurements are a close match to the advertised ones, the sale is completed as the Valves will be retained by myself. If the measurements are quite different, then the Valves are returned and a refund is to be given. As said I have encountered varying types of personalities, most importantly, I have had great success from very helpful vendors. The less helpful and those that are quite Obnoxious can retain their Wares in thier keep. |
@pesky_wabbit The JJ 12AT7 can be quite nice. But like any production tube, they aren't all the same. Some are noisy, microphonic and those have to be returned. Put another way, if you want some nice JJ 12AT7s you'll have to buy more than you need and hand pick the ones that are quiet and low microphonics. With any high performance tube equipment, that's what you do! |
Have you tried new production such as JJ and if so what has been your experience? They are available - this link. {edited link from incorrect one} My own experience with new production has been invariably positive (mainly Tung-Sol available types, being made in Russia - hmmm...JJ are Czech?), but perhaps I am alone in having that luck. Yeah, I now get that it may have meant metal tabs, which is obviously some very technical.aspect of these tubes. Anyway. Best to not query his spelling prowess or he may be insulted - oh, wait... |
Shocking behavior!! Maybe it's called the The Tube Museum because he doesn't want to sell his tubes, only wants to collect and admire them. Not all his tubes are NOS, but measurements are posted and he says they don't come with boxes. That's fair, better than many other dealers. Still, his behavior is unacceptable.
Maybe "meal" tabs is a typo for metal tabs.
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had a look at the site, and a lot of the the stock is unpriced, which is quite bizarre. I guess you put it in your basket, and once you‘re hooked he throws you a price, because nothing shows up at checkout. Or perhaps the tubes never existed and you get offered something else. The stuff that is priced is way over market and hyped to the max. Personally, I would steer well clear - this site has got honeypot written all over it. |
Been around tubes for a while and have not heard of meal tabs, although I am not acquainted with the types you refer to. I’d just walk away, should your assessment be correct. As you say, you have Euro suppliers and they probably speak English quite well and not speak in < and > words or shout at you in capitals letters. |
