I have had great success with Auralex Acoustics isolation pads & they are cheap compared to what you've already tried..Good luck.
Terrible Booms
Hi everyone, I'm sad because I really tried everything (marble base, Gaia isoacoustic, anti-seismic bases, etc.)) but my speakers (ProAc D40R) in my environment (suspended parquet - with voids below) creates terrible booms . I managed to get a good compromise (tube traps and panels) but it's not as I would like. Maybe I should take small speakers, or in a closed box. The fact is that I like my speakers and I don't feel like changing them.
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I agree with the speakers being too much for the room size but you may want to consider trying these Svelte shelves for speakers by Symposium if you want to tame the boominess through dampening and isolation. https://www.thecableco.com/svelte-plus-speaker-set.html |
Why are you looking at another ported speaker? Like I said before, in that size room you should get a nice LS3/5A type speaker. I use the Harbeth P3ESR in the same size room. I have no doubt that they will sound fine in your room! ttps://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=harbeth+p3esr+review&view=detail&mid=3F266B02DF70B252F64F3F266B... ttps://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=harbeth+p3esr+review&view=detail&mid=3F266B02DF70B252F64F3F266B... |
The bass is fine . If you like the Proac sound I think the small Harbeths will give you many years of pleasure. IN BOCCA AL LUPO! https://www.hifizine.com/2011/12/harbeth-p3esr/ |
Doesn't matter what speakers you use,or what footers or platforms.The bass waves are going to continue to cause the boom as they slam back and forth and up and down.To tame those waves you'll need to treat the front wall behind the speakers,especially the corners aggressively.8-10 inches of rockwool straddling the corners.Check GIK Acoustics site for more information and a free consultation.Here is a good site that explains room modes.http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-roommodes.htm Also adding two -four subwoofers will smooth those standing waves and room modes right out.Really!It's called "the swarm". I have a less than optimal room myself and understanding and treating treating the room properly was a huge step forward.Adding two subs was another huge improvement,two more even better.If you really like your speakers do a little research first about acoustics and how to improve your space. |
If your room acoustics cannot be improved, you need to use room correction. Either use a preamp with this built in like Antimode or Anthem, or insert it between your pre and amp. I use miniDSP myself, but on the subwoofer, and because I already have all the room measurement gear I would need. Looking at measurements, this is a low volume listening speaker, with a built in U/V shaped curve. It accentuates the treble and bass. A room correction program may try to change both, so you'll want to get something you can control so you keep the original character of the speaker. |
Your room is kind of squarish which makes for a challenging acoustic treatment that may require tuning to a specific frequency (i.e., Helmoltz resonators) as opposed to off-the-shelf broadband products. If it were me, I would contact a commercial acoustic treatment firm (GIK, Acoustic Fields, etc.) and work with them. |
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stani, I think the recommendation for a high quality small monitors on stands is perfect for you just add two 10" sub woofers. The Rogers LS/35A is perfect. Cross to the subs at 125 Hz and put the subs right in the corners with the monitors 3 feet from the rear and side walls. Put absorption panels on the side walls at the primary reflection point. Personally, I have never liked bass reflex speakers. |
jtfc writes: Doesn't matter what speakers you use,or what footers or platforms.The bass waves are going to continue to cause the boom as they slam back and forth and up and down.To tame those waves you'll need to treat the front wall behind the speakers,especially the corners aggressively.8-10 inches of rockwool straddling the corners.Check GIK Acoustics site for more information and a free consultation.Here is a good site that explains room modes.http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-roommodes.htm Thus saving me a lot of time since everything he says is true. All I need to do now is reiterate the point that things like parquet, suspended whatever, is irrelevant because the bass waves causing the problem are too long wavelength to notice or care about such details. So what you do, you keep the speakers which you love. You can if possible move them to where they create the least amount of midbass boom. Then realize the boom is equal parts speaker location and listening location. So maybe tweak that if possible. Do these first. If you can't no big deal its just that every little bit helps and this is ideally where to start. Then you get yourself enough more subs to have at least 4 altogether. Distribute them around the room. Forget all the BS you've heard about timing. 99% of the advice you will get on that is based on a faulty understanding of both how low frequencies behave and how we hear them. Read as much as you can about the Swarm, distributed bass array, etc. Then when you have four spread around the room, tweaked for crossover and phase and level, here's what you can expect: the boom will still be there but at a lot lower magnitude and way, way, WAY less bothersome because now instead of BOOM then nothing you have a tiny little boom with beautifully balanced bass extending down so low you can hardly believe. Bass you simply cannot get with only one sub. The only difference between me and jtfc is I would do all the above first and only then try and tame whatever is left with absorption. Because as others have noted bass traps can be troublesome and not always work as intended. Leaving it for last the problem you are left with will be much smaller, and it will be more likely to work, if indeed at that point you even still feel the need for it at all. |
@stani19, I don't think that your room is an issue. But your speaker placement might be. I have a pair is D48R in similarly sized room and don't have any boom. How close are your speakers to the walls on the side and behind? I have them on granite base. My speakers are 70" from back wall and 40" from the side walls. All distances are from wall to face of tweeter. Now that you have got accustomed to the "scale of music" that these speakers produce, you will be super disappointed by going to a smaller speaker. Experiment with loudspeaker placement and you should find a spot that will take away the boom. Good luck. |
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The floor won't resonate problematicaly if the bass waves are controlled.I have a "live" room myself.If the subwoofers(that fire towards the wall) are pulled away from the wall farther than 2 inches the floor and everything else resonates.You can always buy new speakers that don't go low enough to excite the room if that's what you prefer.Personally,I would never be happy only hearing just the upper bass notes. |
Another thing to consider is that the Proac woofers are relatively high off the floor and if that distance from the floor to the woofer isn't smaller than the sidewalls to the woofer you may have stronger base nodes/nulls at the listening position. Try listening along the long wall and set your speakers from the side walls at least twice the top woofer height. |
I agree with freediver: Try Auralex SubDudes underneath your Proacs. They will eliminate mechanical transmission of vibrations from speaker to floor. You may still have acoustic (air-borne) vibration issues, which would have to be addressed separately, but eliminating the direct mechanical transmission of vibrations may well be all the improvement you need. The SubDudes are based on the Gramma pad, which many of my prosound (bass guitarist) customers use whenever they are on a hollow stage, and it works great. The Gramma was invented by award-winning acoustician Jeff Hedback, back when he worked for Auralex. You might also try stuffing open-cell foam into the ports. It should be a foam that you can breathe through. You can play around with different stuffing densities. This will reduce the bass output, which might be too much for your room, but try the SubDudes first. (I happen to also be the guy who manufactures a four-sub system called The Swarm, mentioned above, but my suggestion is to try the SubDudes and foam-in-the-ports first.) Duke |
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Your ProAc's show a bass down to 20hz....that is a big claim for 6.5" drivers that look like they cover the midrange and bass....I would try disconnecting the lower 6.5 and just listen to that for a while and see if the two of them were moving too much air for that kind of flooring....if that doesn't sound better you might want to invest in some thick throw rugs. I have mounted throw rugs to a side wall and rear wall using carpet tack strip nailed into the studs and then just hang the rug on them.. |
@soundsrealaudio,I own the newer D48R and while 20Hz is too ambitious a claim, these speakers go down easily to close to 25Hz. Example is "Fading Sun" from Tejre Isungset's album "Winter Songs". I would suggest OP to rather scale down to the ProAc D30, if everything that was suggested above does not work. By disconnecting the lower 6.5, he would be killing the scale and hence the performance of this amazing loudspeaker. |
Thank You all ... Your interventions have been fantastic. I wanted to tell You that I have solved everything: I'm happy and I'm enjoying. I would never have changed the speakers, I love them. I don't know how to insert photos of the system to show it ... if this is possible tell me how to do! Thanks again to everyone |
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@stani19,Good to know that your problems are resolved. And it is a WIN that you can keep your D40R. I don't know how to insert photos of the system to show it ... if this is possible tell me how to do! The best way to do this is to create a "system" on audiogon. When we click on your name we will be able to see your system. You can post the exact pic and let me know how your problem was resolved. But I am glad that it is resolved. |
Stani19, Describe the construction of your floor for me. You mentioned Parquet with voids below? Is it Parquet on a wooden joist floor? What is the width of the joists 10"? What are the dimensions of the room. Is there a basement under the floor and is it finished or unfinished? It sounds to me you were on top of the problem to begin with. I was involved in two situations were the floor was the problem. In both cases the joists were too small for the span they covered and the floors bounced. We fixed it by putting beams across supported by lolly columns below. One floor was actually sagging over an inch in the middle. |
Now all is well. I live in an old building (from the 17th century) and is entirely built in wood (it is a wooden floor but you can call it wooden floor). The parquet (strips of 10 cm) rests on a screed made on a wooden slab which in turn rests on huge wooden beams (30x40 cm). Above and below are other apartments. My solution was the one you see below the speakers (double aluminum plate isolated from each other) |