@travbrow Thanks for sharing your very interesting findings. I’ve been curious about a comparison with open baffle speakers (especially the Double Impacts).
In your specific situation, I’m wondering how well one can compare the Impact Monitors with something like the EP 4.7 since they are essentially full range vs a Monitor and the EPs have 15 inch woofers. Are you augmenting the IMs with subwoofers?
Also, what are you using to drive both the EPs and the IMs?
Thank you. |
Hey travbrow,
David Ten asked you the question I'm curious about, what amplifier(s) do you use in your system. In my reviewing process I have driven the Tektons with SS (Usher 1.5) and tubes (AricAudio SET KT-88) and found that with either amplifier the IM's never become fatiguing at high volume levels at all. You hear the differences between the two amps because the IM's are quite transparent, but never any harshness at all. I also find that they offer very good bass that is blended in with the rest of the speakers frequencies in a natural way. |
Hi guys, I only tried my Odyssey Extreme SE monoblocks. These are warm to neutral I think campared to other amps I've owned. I have an Emerald Physics EP 100.2 SE that I use for the mids and tweeter of the 4.7, those have more sparkle in the top end that works good for 4.7.
I did some quick measurements of the Tektons with REW and from close up (about 3 feet) they measure very well from 200 to 20,000hz Within 2.5db. 20 to 200hz there are s some peaks and valleys which is expected. The biggest peak is about 6db at 85hz. Measuring from listening positions things don't measure as well and small changes in mic positions change the response in the upper region quite a bit which is true for all speakers I would think. I can find a mostly flat region at the listening position. Move the mic less than a foot and the highs slop down some. Though it's not a big change in the sound quality. The 85hz peak is up to 15db out in the room so is probably the bass anomaly I hear. Rooms change bass response quite a bit.
I have a pair of DIY 15" Dayton Ultimax subs for HT and to handle the bass below 40hz. I didn't cross over the Tektons yet, just ran them full range with subs filling the bottom octave. I wanted more time on the speakers before I get too wrapped up in messing with sub settings and eq for the bass peak. Plus I would need to use a mini DSP unit, I wanted to hear the speakers first without any kind of digital crossover and correction.
Also my left ear is sensitive to certain high frequencies (slight tinnitus) so the speakers are probably not the problem and the Emerald Pysics may well be a little rolled of at the frequencies that irritate my tinnitus. |
I'll add that the Tektons have really nice smooth highs and dig out all the details of the music and I can hear the details at modest volume levels, the EP 4.7s sound best at higher volumes and have different presentation being open baffle. The musics seems to "float" around the speakers for lack of a better description. With The Tektons the music sounds more like it's coming from a source, the box enclosure.
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Teajay I have the impact monitors since Nov 2017, I used Plinius sa100 and Viva 300B And concierto art audio using 6550 genalex tubes, never experience any fatiguing at all, the impact disappears on this three amps, iam familiar with audio physics Virgo my dealer that time almost sold me one, they are very good musical speakers with huge soundstage, they are very musical.
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@travbrow Thanks for the additional detail. Gives me a better feel for your comparison. Keep us posted on your ongoing findings and what you decide on.
I found break-in to help in losing that 'boxiness' you describe. And more importantly, positioning will help eliminate it as well.
If you love what an open baffle does, they do get you out of the box, so to speak! : ) |
I did tinker with the positioning some. I have the Tektons 42" from the front wall 24" from side walls measured from the back and outside of the cabinets, and about 8 feet apart measured from the center tweeters. The center tweeter is about in line with my ears. I'll admit there's not a lot of hours on them but how much do they change? |
Also moving them a little at a time doesn't seem to change the sonic character that much to me. I have ceiling and sidewall absorption panels so I don't think reflections are causing much issues. They just sound a bit too forward for me at higher volumes and don't have the dynamic scale I'm used too.
I can see how folks like them though they have plenty of resolution and detail and maybe better suited for tube amps which I don't have. |
For me personally they needed close to 200 hours to smooth out. |
@travbrow The most important point is that you are working through various setups/pairings, etc. If you have been running them constantly, you certainly have enough time on them to give you a good feel for what they are about, given your system and room.
Sometimes a speaker doesn’t match our preferences or does not have the kind of synergy one is looking for, given one’s component set ahead of them. Just what it is. And nothing wrong about that.
Keep us posted on how it goes and if you have specific questions, ask away. For example, you mentioned tubes perhaps being a better fit....I had the DIs in an all solid state system and truly enjoyed them as part of that system. What works for you may be quite different. |
Just got through writing the rough draft on this speaker for hometheaterreview.com and will send it to editor in the next couple of days. For those of you who already own it, congrats it's a mighty fine speaker, indeed. Nothing is perfect, however, if you set it up right and drive with excellent upstream gear I don't know if there is another stand mount monitor, regardless of price, I would want to own. It just does not sound like a small speaker, but like a floor stander regarding dynamics and overall imaging. It's a "BABY DI" for smaller acoustic spaces! One thing I noticed is that it is VERY important to use high quality speaker stands, otherwise you greatly negatively effect the IM performance. I used Sistrum speaker stands that teamed up great for ultimate performance. |
I've had the PMD Studio Monitors for a little over a month now, and they are very impressive. They produce a surprising amount of bass for a small speaker. The XA-25 pairs very nicely with them.
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I'll update my experience with the Impact Monitors. I'll start off with mentioning other speakers I've owned to give an idea of my experience with different models.
After mostly budget Speakers like Advent and Bose, I bought NHT 2.9 as my first high quality speaker set. They were good but a little forward. Moved to Odyssey Audio Lorelei, I owned those for at least 8 years. Enjoyed them very much. Owned Vapor Audio Cirrus with the RAAL tweeter for a couple years until I bought the Emerald Physics 4.7 which I still own. Those were very nice also but wanted to try open baffle and compression horn type speakers. Also I built a pair of Epique CBT24k line array which is a kit from Dayton Audio, I am using those as surrounds, didn't do much listening as mains yet.
I didn't audition the Tekton Impact monitors for very long mostly because though they are very good, not enough for me to want to retire and try to sell my Emerald Physics. I'm guessing with more time the Tektons would of grown on me more but I think I would of missed that open baffle sound I like.
I think the Tektons are a very good value and definitely worth an audition, I think they would compete with more expensive offerings. One thing that I found lacking was with some music the bass didn't sound right and wasn't on par with highs/mids which is excellent. Could of been my room or maybe the stands I used. The Tektons offer very good detail, resolution and efficiency. Imaging and soundstage good also. But couldn't compete with my EP 4.7 at higher listening levels as far as realistic dynamics and a smoother presentation.
I returned the Tektons and received my refund without any problem. Anyway, definitely worth an audition, especially if you are not very satisfied with your current speakers, these could make you very happy. |
@travbrow
Thanks for your review. I would hope a $7000 (EP 4.7) speaker with a deeper freq range would beat a $2000 stand mount in dynamics and higher levels.
Curious, how many hours did you have on the IM's? |
Maybe 75 hours, I paid $4500.00 for the EP 4.7. I was using subs for the low bass with Tekton monitors. The main reason I wanted to try the Tekton monitors was to hear the tweeter array and after reading some highly positive comments on forums, that peaked my interest. I probably would of liked the DI better, but really don't care for the looks plus less flexibility with adjusting the bass response to the room.
I don't believe speakers change that much after 50 hours or so...at least in my limited experience. |
@travbrow
I understand some believe in breakin and some don’t...thats another thread debate. However in my experience those speakers needed at least 150 hours. Your speakers list at $7000 and the IM’s list at $2000. Just sayin
I am also not saying that if you waited another 75 hours you would have kept the IM's, but I have a strong belief you would have appreciated them even more so. Anyway enjoy your system. |
I recently lined the cabinets on my IM's and that did help with the bass.The factory soundproofing is definitely lacking. Perhaps internal bracing would help also. Room tweeks will be soon, as the rebuild project is almost done. |
What did you line the cabinets with GS? |
It's about 3/4 thick foam packing material that wrapped a previous food purchase. It's made of recycled materials. I pulled it out of the box and thought of soundproofing material immediately. Not overly dense, just right. Literally 2 days later, I stumbled across GR Research who makes a product called "No Rez". I think I would put that on first, and then the padding. Maybe at a later date. (like when the crossover upgrade takes place.) : ) |
Travbrow, I do own the Tekton monitors they do improve a lot more after 150hrs, emerald physics speakers are very good speakers as well., My experience with my IM they sound amazing with my viva 300b integrated tube amp And Plinius sa 100.Enjoy your system ... |
Hello gentlemen,
Thought you might be interested that my review on the Impact Monitors just went up on hometheaterreview.com this morning. They are terrific performers and I purchased them for my smaller system. As stated in the review, I believe you have to have the right stands for these to give you all the beauty they can deliver, otherwise you lose out on their ultimate performance. |
"I recently lined the cabinets on my IM's and that did help with the bass.The factory soundproofing is definitely lacking. Perhaps internal bracing would help also. Room tweeks will be soon, as the rebuild project is almost done." I heard the Impact monitors with solid state and tube gear.in a second system .The bass was a mess IMO,no control or very little.I initially thought poor cabinet engineering ( or lack of )was the issue,Also thought possibly bad crossover deign after trying the standard things we all do in a room .This information i'm passing to the owner as he is scratching his head and has ran out of ideas,maybe with re-bracing(adding bracing as suggested) / relining the cabinets,and crossover upgrades he might get what he's seeking.Thanks for the info. |
@teajay Thanks for another great review. The following from your review speaks volumes: "You get the speed and velocity normally only found in horn speakers, which gives you the sense of "aliveness" of real music, without the colorations of those designs. And you get the micro-details, decays, and transparency normally associated with electrostatic planar designs without the etch or sharp, analytical edge. This speaker not only completely disappears like all great stand-mount speakers, but it creates life-sized three-dimensional players much more like a large floorstander. It renders beautiful, natural timbres and tonal colors with all instruments. The bottom-end extension is accurate and taut; you don't really need a subwoofer for music or everyday TV listening. Finally, these speakers have a silky-smooth, grainless signature that draws you into the music." A completely unrelated question: Is the Line Magnetic DAC, the new DAC you are evaluating and falling for? Or is that another brand/model? Thanks. |
@teajay
I echo that thought - thank you for your continued coverage of Tekton products. This was a great review and answered my key question of whether I should get the DI's or the Impact Monitor - it appears my small room (12' x 12.5') would be much better served by the Impact Monitor. Would you share the specific speaker stand setup you are using in your system? I have been on the Sistrum site but wasn't sure which product you were using. Also do you have any suggestions on a less expensive speaker stand that perhaps I should look at if I do not go with the Sistrums? I do want to maximize the sound coming out of the Impact Monitors so I believe I will just have to budget in the $ for Sistrum.
Thanks! |
Hi dbass,
Thanks for the thumbs up on my review. The Sistrum stand that I'm using is a three pillar design with a top and bottom plate plus spikes. If it's not on their website, call Robert to inquire about this stand or if could offer you an alternative model. I wish I could offer another brand/stand, but nothing came close to the Sistrum on the Impact Monitor. |
Has anyone compared the Impact Monitors with the $2500. Tekton PMD Monitors?
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hi
ky1mag (and everyone else), this post is mostly directed to ky1mag, based on your comments regarding your returning the speakers. (but i suspect it could be useful for other, since i have a suggestion that's not typically tried by most folks.) because ky1mag thought they did one thing nice - full sound - when toed out a bit, at the expense of soundstaging - hole-in-the-middle effect; and when toed in, the soundstaging improved, but at the expense of being too bright, w/the tweets pointed at the listening position. now, i realize you returned the im's months ago, but for future reference, and for everyone else, something worth trying regarding speaker toe-in, is to toe the speakers so they actually cross *in front of* the listening position a foot or three. this typically does a few things - it will keep the soundstaging cues w/o a "hole-in-the-middle" effect, while also ameliorating a hot treble w/the tweeter firing directly at you. and, it will also tend to widen the sweet spot, as those not directly centered will have the speaker furthest from them pointing more directly at them than the speaker closest to them. i have my present system set up this way, and it's sounding great, even in a big (26x38x8.5) room; the speakers are on the shorter wall; they're ~6' from the wall behind them, ~9.5' apart, and the listening area is ~12' from the plane of the speakers. in smaller rooms, the benefits can be even greater. in any event, it's certainly worth trying. brian cheney (rip) actually recommended this for set-up of his will regarded vmps ribbon speakers... ymmv, doug s. |
Hi All. I have been following along with this sometimes colorful discussion. I can say, sedond (Doug) that I did not try toeing in so that the direct path of the tweeters crossed in front of the listening position. With time to think about all this, and taking into account the experiences by other IM owners I think the issue in my case was the listening room with the speakers on the long wall. No sidewalls to provide reflections and thus the treble coming from the tweeter array was too forward for my taste. I've been enjoying my Emerald Physics KC II Pros very much, but even then I use the "tilt" function on my much loved (and much maligned by some) Quad 34 pre-amp to tame the treble especially with some CDs and if I'm listening at relatively high volumes (which is rare for me). I suspect that if I had a differently shaped listening room I would still be a happy owner of Tekton IMs. |
hi ky1mag,
in the overwhelming majority of cases, having no sidewalls is a major advantage, not a disadvantage. looking at your room dimensions, tho, in your case, you have only 13' to squeeze you and the speakers between the front and back wall. this is nightmarish, to be honest. you said you're about 8-9' from the speakers, which means barely 2' behind you, and the speakers are barely 2' from the wall behind them. that's an especially difficult task for your present open-baffle speakers, even more so than the tektons. while i'm glad you're enjoying them, there's no doubt in my mind that they (or any speaker) would sound better if you re-oriented your room 90 degrees so the speakers fired down the length of the room. even if your living area is in the middle of the room, and you have +/-10' in front of you and behind you, it will sound so much better. if you can do it; i know how logistics are, sometimes - ha!
and, even if you're enjoying your present sound (and i certainly hope you are) i still strongly suggest trying to toe in your new speakers as i previously suggested. it besides the treble issues, it very well may alleviate some of the sound dispersion issues presented by your head being so close to the wall behind you, if you don't have massive sound absorption panels behind you; or even if you do, for that matter. and if you don't have absorption panels behind you, you should consider it, if it's logistically possible; it would be a good idea, with your room's set-up. ;~)
doug s. |
From John Atkinson --- "JA’s Saturday at AXPONA" at Stereophile:
"But the surprise for me in the Parasound room was how well the tiny Parasound Zonemaster 250 amplifier (50Wpc into 8 ohms, $475), which uses a ETAL class-D module, drove the Tekton Impact Monitor speakers ($2000/pair). (The Zonemaster 250, with its matching $449 preamp, can be seen sitting on top of one the speakers.) Herb Reichert is working on a review of this intriguing Tekton speaker, with its circular array of seven tweeters, for our August issue."
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Should be an interesting read especially with Atkinson's measurements and quick to the point commentary he usually throws in. |
Herb "the herb" will be transplanted to the top of a Himalayan mountain listening to the sound of a Tibetan monk chanting. |
From Jerry Del Colliano / Hometheaterreview.com 'Random Thoughts and Observations from Axpona 2018' "I got to hear the Texton Impact Monitors that Terry just reviewed here on HomeTheaterReview.com, powered by Parasound electronics (shown below). I understand that some people are wary of the over-the-top praise that Eric Alexander's speakers get, specifically that patented tweeter array, but MAN did those speakers sound good. So open. So dynamic." |
Lurker here, appreciating all of this discussion. I want to be very careful and just stick to the facts here. Unless I'm missing something, this comparison of Impact monitor vs. Emerald Physics is pitting:
a 24" tall, 10" wide monitor speaker with 2 six-inch woofers
against
a 39" tall, **22" wide** speaker with a 12-inch mid and a 15-inch woofer
?
These differences are .... significant. The result that the far larger speaker has better bass and dynamic scale is pretty much "to be expected", no? |
I’ll be interested in what Herb Reichert has to say about the Tekton monitors. There was a very recent video on the Stereophile site with Herb "demoing" the Joseph Audio Pulsar monitors that he’s currently reviewing, about which Herb wrote: "I personally thought it this was the most transparent, detailed, and effectively neutral system I have assembled since starting as Stereophile."
Hopefuly Herb will talk about how the Tekton’s stand against something like the Pulsars. But then, Herb apparently said he "hates writing about comparisons" which isn’t a terribly helpful attitude for a reviewer. I’d sure love to hear the Tekton speakers, but no way to do so in Canuck-land. (I’d never buy them on looks/aesthetics so it’s mostly curiosity about their sound). |
Hukkfinn, I have daul 15 in subs that I used with the monitors. Should of helped level the comparison. I mainly wanted to hear the new hyped tweeter array to get an idea of the Tekton sound. I liked the sound, but not enough to want to try the DI or other bigger Tekton models, for various reasons. |
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anybody have a pair of Impact Monitors for sale? |
The Stereophile review of the Impact Monitors is out. It confirms what owners of these speakers already know. The measurements validate Eric's design. Its a must read if you are contemplating buying these speakers. |
Travbrow I used to own those monoblock Extreme Odyssey SE amp, I suspect they do match your EP well, I do own the Tekton IM my guest the Oddyssey are not good match for the IM, anyway thank you for being honest with your experience with IM..... |
sbayne,
Thanks for posting about the Stereophile review. Validation for sure.
In the Stereophile Stand/Bookshelf category the Impact Monitor looks to possess the best 'averaged horizontal polar frequency response' Stereophile has ever measured. The 'cumulative spectral-decay plot at the tweeter axis is also exceptional.
Herb reviewed the Impact Monitors in a NY apartment size room so he was quite literally getting too much bass performance as he expressed in his review. Under normal room conditions
(larger more open spaces)
the bass and overall performance is exceptional.
Eric Alexander - audio designer |
Eric - I've had a number of audiophiles and musicians hear your Impact Monitors in my listening room. They all have been thoroughly impressed. Your goal of "literally aligning the moving mass of speaker cones to the harmonic spectra of the musical instruments being played" has worked. The fact a third-party (Atkinson) confirmed they measure so well is not a a surprise! Congrats! Scott |
Can someone point me to the elusive (at least to me) Stereophile review? Thanx in advance! |
@harv1021 - I got my copy of Stereophile in the mail yesterday. I just checked and I don't see it online yet. |
@sbayne - That’s why I couldn’t find it. Thank you very much! I’ll have to wait til they post it or possibly get a subscription. |
You can get a year digital subscription for 10 bucks in iTunes. |
@mofojo
Well, that ain’t bad. I'm in. Appreciate the tip! |
@david_ten thanks for the alert on these tekton speakers!! |
@canibefrank You are welcome!
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