I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Both the JOB and the Odysseys are solid recommendations by the members who have brought them to your attention.
Srajen Ebaen put JOB on the map early on, though his enthusiasm for them has faded a bit. You may want to look at his reviews also. He talks about them from time to time in his subsequent other product reviews, so that 'fading feeling' is difficult to get at via Google.
333jeffrey Last night I put on the Lorde release through the DIs crossed at 80hz to my DIY dual opposed 15" sealed sub. I'm pretty sure there is the 20-20K range on every one of her songs. It was amazing without even pushing those speakers. -10dB on the volume knob of my Denon 4520. If you like concert level listening, you'll likely love these. I can only imagine the Ulfs or heaven forbid the 1812s in that mode.
@333jeffrey - Thanks for the response. I'm a "HUGE" live music fan and my goal is to have that kind of reproduction in-home. Looks like I better give Eric a call and see what I can find out about this Mini-Ulf!
You are thinking it would be cleaner to input any amp RCA from the Jenson piece?
Not necessarily "any," but some and very possibly most, especially in the price range you are considering. Based, as I said, on anecdotal reports that have been provided here and elsewhere.
And are you sure the transformer won't degrade the signal?
I haven't used Jensen transformers myself, but a number of highly experienced members here who have **very** high quality systems have reported excellent results with them.
I tend to lean toward a "less is better", minimalist view of a signal path.
Likewise in my case. But there are exceptions to every rule, and I suspect this is one of them. And as you alluded to, the transformer may be simply taking the place of a low quality op amp device that is used in many designs to interface between a balanced input and an unbalanced internal signal path.
@almarg Thanks for that information. Learned something new today. I will likely invest in that no matter which way I go with the amp. You are thinking it would be cleaner to input any amp RCA from the Jenson piece? And are you sure the transformer won't degrade the signal? I tend to lean toward a "less is better", minimalist view of a signal path. Don't throw anything in that isn't really needed because it's likely to degrade the signal. But if you feel this will allow a cleaner signal to reach the amp, and it will replace lesser circuitry in the amp, then it certainly makes sense and really isn't adding anything since it eliminates a circuit within the amp itself. This then puts the JOB amp back into play for me too. I wish JOB didn't have a Soup Nazi return policy to allow an in-home trial. That may actually push me to the Odyssey offering instead.
I got the Impact Monitors in this weekend (in Farrari yellow), I'm very impressed. All the comments re: theDouble Impact apply - airy, 3-D midrange & extended, clean highs, beautiful sound-staging, very dynamic with good bass response (paired with my Emotiva DSP10 subs). I listen primarily to Classical orchestral and solo piano.The 6 tweeter array seems to unravel orchestral textures better than a traditional cone midrange driver. The drivers are different than the top half of the DI's: 2 SB Acoustics 6 1/2" mid/bass drivers and 7 Tymphany tweeters. These compare favorably with any Monitor I've heard-
Bullitt5094 6-25-2017 I don’t think a 50ft RCA cable is a good idea.
Very true. Also, even with an XLR cable it would be highly preferable to choose a cable having low capacitance per unit length (e.g., no more than around 25 or 30 pf per foot, and preferably less), and to drive the cable with a component having low output impedance (e.g., no more than two or three hundred ohms or so, and preferably less).
However, given the several fine suggestions that have been made of suitably priced amps that provide only RCA inputs, I would seriously consider using one of those amps in conjunction with a Jensen transformer that would accept an XLR input and provide an output that would be connected to the amp with a short length of RCA cable. That may very possibly even work better than an XLR to XLR connection, because there is a substantial body of anecdotal evidence indicating that the sonic quality of the XLR input circuits of many modestly priced amps is inferior to the sonic quality of their RCA inputs.
A suitable transformer would be the Jensen model PI2-XR if a stereo amp is being used, or a pair of PI-XR if monoblocks are being used. The PI2-XR is available here for $250. (That page shows a PI2-XX, having XLR connectors for both inputs and outputs, but you can specify RCA output connectors after clicking the "purchase" link). Further details can be found at the Jensen site.
Longdrive, I have the Enzo 2.7's, the DI's and the Ulf's. The DI's and Ulf's are a large step up from the Enzos--much more "real" sounding and vastly superior bass. Live recordings in particular are a real treat on them.
As for the Mini Ulfberhts, I talked to Eric a week back, and he said it's atleast a month or more before we get any more details on them. I suspect that they would be the sweet spot for a lot of folks here.
Tekton Enzo XL owner here fascinated by all this talk of the Double Impact and Ulfbehrt.
I really thought my Enzo XL's would be the end of a very long audio line for me owning everything from Gallo Acoustic Nucleus Reference to Dunlavy SC-IVa to Altec/JBL based horn systems, Altec and other coaxial boxed and open baffle speakers and open baffle/horn hybrids etc. searching for a system that sounds like "real, live music". While the Enzo's are not my be all, end all speaker they did enough right to live with and really enjoy them, but they just don't afford that last bit of transparency and realism of live music and it sounds like the DI and Ulf have those qualities in spades along with even better soundstage and imaging.
A couple of questions: 1) Are there any former Enzo XL owners on the thread that have converted and could share their thoughts? 2) Does anyone have any specs or webpage that shows the "Mini Ulfbehrt"? (Might be just the ticket for me
Thanks for sharing all! Look forward to hearing more, especially Terry's upcoming Ulfbehrt review!
I did not know xlr was a must. The Belles is rca with xlr only when used as a mono amp. Need to find another matching Belles amp for use in balanced mode. I did see this Pass Labs amp......It is some 12 years old but a great amp and balanced inputs also...... http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649340044-pass-labs-x3-150w-x3/
Also, these amps were already mentioned and very good.
Hello Bullitt, There’s a used First Watt F3 for sale on this site. However it’s a very simple single ended design(RCA) rather than the balanced you desire.
@grannyring that deal definitely has my attention. It's within driving distance too. @charles1dad where the heck can I find find pricing on First Watt without having to stagger into a brick and mortar and arm wrestle sales people? @teajay I wish that list was in my price range! I just can't justify that investment. @corelli Marantz separates are still on the list as far as I'm concerned. Especially the pre/pro. I put Emotiva and Outlaw in the same general bracket and all seem like they have good reputations with Emotiva having some product offering hick-ups that seemed to last a bit long. @lancelock I was almost ready to order the JOB but it only doesn't have balanced inputs. I don't think a 50ft RCA cable is a good idea. That does sound like an excellent piece though reading the reviews. @mac48025 the 3-Channel Odyssey Stratos HT-3
Would allow me to power the center channel up-front too. Can you tell me more of your Odyssey experience? Never heard of them. @stfoth, I hear ya man. At this point it isn't in the cards or budget. I'm going to do the best I can with an HT system that does stereo well.
Well, hell.... that tears that idea. That was the best Idea I had so far today too.
Wait... I just had another.... I'm going to need a toothbrush, some bailing wire, duct tape, some toothpicks and a turkey baster. I'll be right back.....
Vitop, absolutely do not connect the outputs of two power amps together, or to multiple binding posts on speakers that would in turn connect them together, even if both amps are never on at the same time.
See the following threads, and the other threads and links provided therein. As you’ll see, possible approaches include speaker-level switching devices, and use of a single amp for the front left and right speakers in conjunction with the "home theatre bypass" function that is provided in many preamps and integrated amps.
@kdude66 Kenny, I was interested in the reworking of your DI's. In particular how you changed your woofers from the alphas to the betas. On paper these are two different drivers. I could see how the betas with their larger magnets might offer slightly more efficiency and tighter bass, but at the expense of low end extension. The betas do have a slightly higher Fs as expected. On a somewhat related note, how do these drivers achieve such low end extension when their resonant frequencies are in the low 50's?? They obviously extend well beyond that but I always read that Fs defines the low end extension and even in a reflex enclosure this seems way deeper than I would expect. Any thoughts?
You bring up some valid questions but for the most part they are none issues.Remember the 6 outer tweeters play down to their resonate freq. and isn't a problem,that's part of the magic of this speaker.
I wanted the black instead of blue cones and got lucky That I only changed the resistor value in the woofers crossover to deal with the slightly higher efficiency of the beta woofers and I ended up with in room measurements of bass measuring flat to 20hz and obviously tighter and better defined bass by listening that blends very well and is'nt overpowering to my ears.
I would have changed the cap and sand cast resistor in the crossovers to better parts anyway.
Remember those Thiele-Small Parameters specs are generally in the free air and once in a box everything changes in specs for the most part.
I've been modifying speakers and or electronics for a long time and I just didn't Willy nilly make these changes.I have been a Avionics Tech at a major Airline for 30 yrs.
I have accomplished other measurements as well and all I can say is the DI's have The flattest frequency response of any speaker that I have ever measured and the Impedance curve is truly remarkable as most of us owners are finding out in the respect of how easy a load for any amplifier that we might want to use.
As Tejay has stated several times the DI's are true conduits and will most definitely show any shortcomings in our systems but on the other hand they will give us also the true character of our gear also.
bullitt, I must apologize. Did not read your post carefully enough. You clearly are looking for an amp, not an integrated. I must agree in your case grannyring makes a nice suggestion.
So I have a stupid question. I am getting rid of my stereo setup to consolidate. I am not going to have room for two setups. I am still not convinced of the need for both a stereo and HT setup.
However, just for arguments sake, lets say that you would want different equipment for 2 channel. I know I am not going to have room for two setups any more.
Is there a way to keep the Tekton HT speaker setup but have two setups for equipment driving the front L & R speakers? You turn on the 2 channel amp for music and turn on the multichannel amp for HT?
Also seems like there is a margin for error in case both amps are left on. I guess the first step would be to get the front speakers with 2 sets of binding posts?
BTW, I have not done any real tube amp critical listening. The only ones I heard were from Raven Audio -- I have not heard them mentioned here. They sounded very good to me, but not really sure how they would sound against good SS or other tube amps.
Belles makes great sounding amps and this amp below (link) is a fine deal. I owned it and the more powerful 350 ref. Having owned many nice SS amps from the likes of TRL, Electrocompaniet, Aesthetix, CJ, Blue Circle, Monarchy Audio, Levinson, McIntosh, and others I can tell you Belles amps are worthy. For $1000 it is worthy! https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-belles-ref150a-v2-2017-06-14-amplifiers-70764-plaquemi...
bullitt, With your given budget I would highly suggest you consider a marantz integrated which is what I have been using to drive my DI's. I do not find this integrated to be cold or clinical in the least. Coupled with one of their SACD players it's a sound I can listen to for many hours. I keep toying with the idea of tubes but I really feel this gear does far more right than wrong. I listen to a wide variety of music--and when it comes to large scale works the Marantz Reference gear has been so composed and satisfying I'm quite happy. There are some very knowledgeable friends on this thread and I would never argue the satisfaction they have with their gear nor do I doubt them. But for me, right now, this is an easy recommendation on your budget.
Teajay, Your suggested SS amplifiers are good recommendations but keep in mind the stated budget. He’ll never find those caliber of amplifiers used anywhere near 1500.00 dollars, thus my suggestions above. First Watt will get him serious quality 2 channel music reproduction if he can find a used one. The First Watt S.I.T.won't be found in this price range either used. Charles
The best SS amps I have heard on the DI's have been Pass Labs XA-60.8 mono-blocks, Accuphase P-450 (this was my favorite driven by the Micro-ZOTL), First Watt SIT-2, and Perla Audio's Sig-50. All of these are wonderful SS amps which present somewhat tube like in their color/tone and are slightly warm with great liquidity. If still say I would not like to hear the DI's with less worthy SS gear because you would hear the "rough edges" very easily through these speakers.
Great info group. Thanks! I have much research to do. It will be 50/50 Audio/HT. I am considering the new Outlaw Atmos preamp that is suppose to be available this year. I also looked at the Emotiva XMC-1 but have heard they've had troubles with some of their offerings. Marantz 7703 or maybe a used/refurbed 8802 are under consideration too but the Outlaw seems to have a good reputation and they are stating a target of $1200 for their Atmos pre/pro so that seems attractive. Sources are an Oppo 103 for BR, (will go with a 203 in the future) An HTPC FLAC lossless through an IFI Micro DSD DAC for digital music and a Thorens TD-165 with an AT-440. for analog. And here is the TMI paragraph if you would like to know more about my situation. My HT rack is in the rear of the room My speaker cables to the DIs presently are over 60ft! I want to put the amp for the DIs in the front with them and feed it with balanced cables from the Pre/Pro to shorten the speaker cables to only 6ft. So I want a 2 (or 3 for center) channel amp in the front and the remainder in the back with the pre-pro. So I can't just have a single 7 or 11 (atmos) channel amp in the rear. That complicates things for me. I need to sort through some of these suggestions. The answer may be there. With Emotiva's XPA G3 amp, I feel like I'm wasting a lot only putting two power cards in that chassis designed for 7. Maybe that's just a quirk for me though. Are Marantz amps or pre/pros worth a darn? Or are they just in the same class as my current Denon sonically? Thanks again for suggestions.
Stfoth, I didn’t bother with any tube power amplifier suggestions as it seems clear that there’s only an interest in transistors. The "cold and clinical " character you mentioned (Emotiva) is why I recommended the First Watt amplifiers. Probably as natural and lively as you’ll find for solid state, particularly for the stated price range. Howeve It’s hard to know what another person may like. Charles
@kdude66 Kenny, I was interested in the reworking of your DI's. In particular how you changed your woofers from the alphas to the betas. On paper these are two different drivers. I could see how the betas with their larger magnets might offer slightly more efficiency and tighter bass, but at the expense of low end extension. The betas do have a slightly higher Fs as expected. On a somewhat related note, how do these drivers achieve such low end extension when their resonant frequencies are in the low 50's?? They obviously extend well beyond that but I always read that Fs defines the low end extension and even in a reflex enclosure this seems way deeper than I would expect. Any thoughts?
I would 2nd the first watt as a very good choice,I have owned and or heard everyone of the except the sit 1 mono blocks.You might look for the J2,F3 and the F7 I think these would be outstanding driving the DI's.
I presently own a diy push pull sit that uses nos Sony Vfet's and I have a F7,but I haven't used it with the DI's yet.Maybe this week I will try it with my LTA MZ2 preamp.
One thing to consider is the first watt amps will hold their value better than most others.
I’d seriously consider a used First Watt amplifier as a viable alternative if you’re adamant about only seeking a transistor amplifier. Nelson Pass design pure class A and ultra simple circuit. It has enough power for the Double Impacts.
I think that in terms of musicality and natural high quality sound presentation it may be superior to the other candidates mentioned, just my humble opinion. Good luck ,, Charles
Bullitt, I agree with Craigl59, the Emotiva amps sound pretty good for the cost. I would also recommend a Job225 as a very good SS amp. My DI's will be here on Wednesday and I will start out using a Benchmark AHB2 direct from Modwright UDP205. I'm hoping the smooth tube stage of the Modwright will mean I won't need a preamp. I will also try my Micro ZOTL in the chain as well.
Bullitt: Check out Emotiva amps -- they are SS but considered pro quality. Am using three of them in various home and studio setups and they are very solid and accurate. Like Tekton, they are known for their cost value relationship. It's Emotiva.com.
have you checked out Odyssey Audio? Great sounding SS gear, well made in the US at very reasonable pricing. You won't be able to get their top of the line Kismets but you should be able to get their Khartago stereo amp. Klaus is a great guy to work with also.
I would like to upgrade several pieces in front of my DIs. I'd like advice on a SS 2-Ch power amp. I don't want to invest in the level described in the amps discussed here. I have a Denon 4520 Receiver now and will be investing in an Atmos Pre-Pro in the future, but would like to buy a good power amp strictly for the DIs first. My research brought me to the PS Audio Stellar S300 http://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-s300-power-amplifier/ Comments on that choice? Any other recommendations for a SS unit for around $1500? If there is a tube or Hybrid that would work for similar price that would keep-up in a HT application, I'd consider that too, but I doubt there is anything that cheap. If this price bracket is so low on the group's radar as to not be a good question, just ignore it. But any advice would be appreciated.
Just finished putting around 220hours of play time on my DIs. They sounded fantastic right out of the box but are AMAZING after the break in. Very very happy!!
The BHK 300 is a hybrid amplifier made by PS Audio. It uses a tube input stage of two 6922 tubes, and a solid-state output stage. This gives it some "tubey" sound qualities with the power and control of a solid-state amp. You can even roll tubes in it to tune the sound somewhat. I like it very much, but it is a different beast than an SET amp. I have no idea how the Ulf's would sound on a small tube amp, but some of my recordings definitely benefit from the extra power that the BHK's provide.
Thanks Jeffery for the very thorough response. A 7 isn't as bad as I was assuming. I needed that translation into a number scale to take my own bias out of the equation. I can't fault your chosen positioning of them as a contributing factor either. You're not crunched for space at all in that space, that's for sure.
I'm not familiar with your amplifier, I researched, but found very little. What's the story on your amp? I wish I could send you my set amp to audition just to have your assessment on the sonic presentation and overall experience, and I could, but flying pigs would need to roast in hell so we could all enjoy some BBQ prior to it freezing over before I would even go 12 hours separated by my "precious". Seriously, I need help.
Jcarcopo, I would rate the Ulf's at a 7 on your scale. I think folks have misinterpreted my comments about how forward these speakers are. The sound quality of the Ulf's is superb, no question about it. It's the soundstage that I am commenting on. By "forward", I mean that the soundstage projects farther into the room than the DI's do. I mentioned this because in a smaller listening room, this may be too much. My listening room is 17 feet by 29 feet, with 10 foot ceilings. There is 11 feet between my speakers, and no toe-in. My listening chair is about 10 feet from the speakers. About 14 feet from the grills to my rear walls. The Ulf's are not overly bright, they don't have a "hot" treble, which is surprising when you see all those tweeters. If you enjoy vocals, the Ulfberhts will please you greatly. I hope this clears up any confusion. I would hate for folks to get the impression that the Ulf's have some sort of flaw, which they do not.
I have to comment again on the bass that the Ulf's produce, it ranges from the merely sublime on some recordings to astounding on others. If you are a fan of the low notes, these speakers will thrill you.
So I take it that you had to drill out the bottoms of your speakers an used some brass threaded inserts? Did you elect to drill all the way through the wood? It seems with the 1" stud, you would have had to do that.
@mac48025: The DIs are elevated by 2.75 inches to their base in my application (probably only marginally higher than spikes, unless they spikes are on carpeting).
I recently came across some comments on one of the general Tekton threads/forums about the need to elevate the speakers in question since the woofer was so close to the floor. I wonder if this is also something that is coming into play?
@craigl59: There are comments from various members on this thread around 4/15 4/16 as well as on 4/25 regarding their results with Herbie's sliders and other isolation products they have used with the Double Impacts as well as other components/speakers. There was also some discussion regarding the same, prior to the question I asked, a few pages back from the 4/15 date posts.
Here is my post (lightly edited) from 4/25 with some quick impressions.
------------------------ Herbie's Audio speaker isolation Gliders are in-system now. I went with 8 Giant Threaded Stud Gliders, 1 inch length, screwed in flush with the Double Impact's base. I did not use the nuts since they left a gap between the base and the isolation device.
Man, do they make the speakers easy to move on our hardwood flooring!
I did notice a sonic difference, though I would label it as "one of more," a bit more in this case... rather than one of' an order of magnitude' difference.
I wanted to utilize the isolation platforms I've been using for years now. In addition to sonic improvements, they just happen to look really good with the Double Impacts, at least to my eyes, and provide an 'early warning' to my son : )
I also ordered 8 Giant Fat Gliders. Robert Herbelin didn't feel strongly about doubling up, but advised me to experiment. I used Blu-Tack between the Gliders and the isolation platform.
I had one speaker with the Threaded Gliders screwed in (on the floor) and the other with the Glider - Iso Platform - Threaded Gliders. My ears just wanted to listen to one speaker. It was so very clear and easy to pick up.
Again, not an order of magnitude difference. Just more. And a lot more with the doubled up solution. And more rightness / righteousness musically.
Everything has tightened up. Taut is the word I would use, along with greater fullness (body) which seem oppositional as elements. Better separation and depth into the music, more detail and clarity. More fun, more enjoyment. --------------------
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