Gentlemen,
I'm amending my conclusion regrading that the SET 2A3 was some what lacking in over Db levels/dynamics/transparency compared to the Micro-ZOTL used as an amplifier.
I discovered after I posted that I had not total disengaged a volume control on the SET amplifier that was leading to the prior shortcomings that I had talked about. Now, the Micro-ZOTL as a line-stage with the SET 2A3 is a magical combo on all types of music and will play at higher volume levels, with great bottom end control, then the Micro-ZOTL by itself through the DI's. |
Pretty amazing teajay. Really appreciate your posts on these different amplifier options. Must be some nice synergy between the 4 ohm DI's and the Micro-ZOTL.
A bit ago you gave a nice review to the Melody 300b, an interesting design that used two 300b's in push pull. Do you still have that amp?
Please keep the posts coming on your impression of different amp/DI combinations you try. Thanks
mac, when do you anticipate delivery of your Micro-ZOTL?
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Just got through, about five hours, of listening to a SET 2A3 (3.5 watts into 4 ohms) being driven buy the Micro-ZOTL as a preamp into the DI's.
This combo was very sweet, colorful, rich with lots of "meat on the bone" imaging. However, it did not have the overall dynamic drive/pop, bass control, transparency, and ultimate volume levels of the Micro-ZOTL used as an amplifier. Remember the Micro-ZOTL is 1 watt into 4 ohms, yet it's control of the DI's bottom end and its usable Db levels were better then the 3.5 watts of the SET amplifier.
Yet, on the right musical selections, (vocals, small group jazz) the SET 2A3 amp sounded beautiful with the DI's.
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@waltersalas "Audiophile Nervosa being what it is, I didn't want to get, like, and keep the speakers, only to experience that niggling feeling six or eight months from now that I might be missing that extra few degrees of refinement or impact--if I had only gotten the upgrade" Well said. I eagerly await the DI duel with the Daedalus. |
Thanks again, guys. I am looking forward to the comparison. Though I understand from many of you that the Tektons sound good right out of the box, my experience with new speakers is that they take anywhere from 50-100 hours--or even more--to fully open up and sound their best. Therefore, I am expecting this to be a process, rather than an "event," which is fine by me.
@david_ten I would say the Daedalus are the favorites by a field goal, but the Tektons are young, up and coming, and have big play potential, so an upset is certainly a possibility.
@mac48025 I have never heard those Legacy speakers, but I know they are highly regarded, as are some of other speakers the DI have replaced in other systems. That gives me hope that they will hold their own with the Daedalus.
@lancelock With the upgrade package, a new pair of Double Impacts is $3375 delivered. So the difference is $375, which is not necessarily insignificant, but is reasonable enough that I thought it was worth it. Audiophile Nervosa being what it is, I didn't want to get, like, and keep the speakers, only to experience that niggling feeling six or eight months from now that I might be missing that extra few degrees of refinement or impact--if I had only gotten the upgrade. Also, I want to hear the DI at their absolute best against my Daedalus.
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Have the Spread Spectrum Technologies Son of Ampzilla 2 Wyred 4 Sound version amp back in rotation for a couple of days. This is a Class A/B amp with the first 10 in A. Also added Triode Wire Labs PCs into the system a few days ago.
The Tektons, along with what's ahead of them just keep delivering!
Listening to Eric Bibb's 'Migration Blues' album. Amazing! And the silly part is that the Tekton's still have 'scale' left in the game. : )
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Thanks @david_ten for the info.
@waltersalas , I plan on getting the upgrade package and a different color. What was the additional cost? |
Looking forward to your impressions Walter. Daedalus has been a speaker I've always admired and if they sound half as good as they look they must be special indeed. I thought I had my "forever" speakers with the Legacy Audio Focus SE's but after comparing them with the DI's for three weeks I sold them. They were exceptionally nice speakers but my preference was with the DI's. Seeing how they stack up to the Daedalus will be very interesting indeed.
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:@waltersalas I sense a betting opportunity coming on. What's the spread?
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you're a good man, cant wait for the comparison! |
Thanks, guys. I think it will be an interesting contrast. I certainly agree that the Daedalus are special, and I could (and may) certainly live with them the rest of my days.
On the other hand, I am intrigued by the Double Impacts and feel that it is worth the gamble to give them a shot. Speaker preference, like most things in audio, is enormously subjective, so who knows how this might come out? One thing for sure, if the DI speakers are not as musical and enjoyable as the Ulysses, I will not be keeping them. But I am willing to take the gamble and find out.
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Hi Walter, I'm happy for you! The Ulysses is indeed formidable, yes you're in store for much fun. Charles |
@waltersalas : Wonderful! Looking forward to your impressions. Hold on to the Daedalus...they are special.
@lancelock : Eric says that they work fine close to the front wall. Since you have absorptive room treatments, you should be set with what mofojo, mac, and kdude recommend. In my case, I found them to perform better further out...they are 43 inches off the wall, without treatment. If I could, I'd bring them out to 4 feet. At some point I will add bass traps behind the speakers, though they are working great as is, without them.
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Walter,
Congrats on your purchase,that should be a interesting comparison with 2 speakers that are more similar than what I've got and have recently owned in the past 5 yrs.
The Di's only need 30 to 50 hrs on them to loosen up those fabric surrounds,and form the caps on the crossovers and they should be singing nicely.
I hope you like them and all the best too you,
Kenny.
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Just a quick update for anyone who may be interested. I ordered the Double Impacts exactly two weeks ago today in charcoal gray with the upgrade package, and they shipped yesterday and will arrive on Monday. Needless to say, I am delighted with the turnaround time.
In the next few weeks--once I get 50-100 hours or so on the DI speakers--I will be comparing them with my reference speakers, the justly celebrated Daedalus Ulysses speakers. Should be lots of fun, and I will report back with some impressions when I am able to form some.
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Hello all,
I think Mac made a very valid statement about the DI's placement.
I think distance apart and toe in probably affect their sound more so than distance from back wall.
Kenny.
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Having a dedicated listening room I'm not limited with placement and found 6' out from wall the best for me. Obviously every room/system/personal preference will vary. What I've found with the DI's and my previous Enzo's is that they aren't all that fussy about placement but I do much prefer how they sound in a well sound treated room with my listening chair being the only furniture in the room. The soundstage is huge in every direction. They sounded great in my family room two feet from back wall but now they sound even better. I think distance apart and toe in probably affect their sound more so than distance from back wall. |
I like mine best about 2ft from rear wall. Others say more but I have tried it all and this works best for me. |
I have a 16'x 17' room with an 8' ceiling. How far off the wall do these speakers need to be for best result? I also have plenty of room treatments, mostly absorption. |
Buds,
Congrats on your upgrade to Di's.I've had mine for a week,truly digging there Sound.
I have mine 1ft from the back wall,with great results and I have tried them at 5 inch like yours with no problems as well but did notice the stage not as deep.
Our room is 20x25x9 that opens to the kitchen and the walkway to the kitchen is close too the left speaker so I really can't have them pulled out any farther.This wouldn't be a good room for panels or ob's but I knew that when we bought the house.
I'm wandering where other Di owners ended up positioning there speakers.
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@buds: Great that the upgrade to the DIs is working so well for you! Congratulations.
@charles1dad : I’ve been thinking about this, but I’m not sure how to verbalize it, yet... This is a basic attempt at doing so (I’m sure someone else can do much better with the words): we talk of, and focus on the Double Impacts, but I believe much has to do with the learning, experience and wisdom of the owners, the interplay between those individuals, and the application of all of this in bringing the best out of the Tektons. It is, using your words, about "well conceived design and implementation" of all the products and so much more ahead of the Double Impacts.
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I agree Corelli - with every thing you said. |
corelli, Give Mark a call at LTA, my lips are sealed. LOL |
Corelli,
You make an important observation, this speaker seems very compatible with a wide array of amplifiers. This suggests a very well conceived design and implementation.
Charles |
Any details on the integrated amp that's in the works?
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David Berning told me the maximum power from the MZ 2 S comes at 3 ohms, and drops as the impedance rises. There are more products coming from LTA, Mark, and David, keep your ears open. At AXPONA I heard the MZ2S/ZOTL40 combo leave a SS pre/amp of similar cost in the dust, the speaker manufacturer loved the LTA gear and ended up visiting David in Potomac to hear more Berning kit. |
buds,
glad you are enjoying your new DI's. I'm impressed, in spite of different equipment, rooms, and hearing we all seem to assign similar descriptions as to what we hear with the DI's. A helpful thing for those who are at the place we all were not too long ago.
It would also seem that the DI's are very versatile and compatible with a wide range of associated amps/equipment. On this thread we have class AB amps, class D, SET's, and even preamps--all with happy owners. Pretty amazing.
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I wanted to add my thoughts on the double impacts; These were an upgradeitus purchase from my previous Lore-S speakers, which I loved! After listening for about 30 minutes, I was asking myself, “so where is this great bass?” I have since learned that most pop, rock, and country recordings are lacking in sound quality. I put some jazz on and it immediately made me feel better about my purchase. Then, when Marcus Miller’s “M2” came up, I thought OH MY! Now, I was ecstatic about my purchase. I second ALL of the positive attributes that have been given to the double impacts (“aliveness,”tight bass, micro dynamics, clarity, large sound stage…on and on). The double impacts sound great from transistor radio levels to full-on ear bleeding. My normal listening range is between 65dBs to 80-85dBs I would say these speakers have a definite break in period of at least 20 hours. They are sounding better and better every time I ask them to sing for me. Do not let the seven tweeters scare you. (I think they actually look cool.) These speakers are not bright, at all. The highs are perfect for me…as well as the rest of the spectrum. Some have said that the double impacts sound best when they’re well into the room. Let me reassure you, mine are 5 INCHES from the front wall and they sound glorious. You can see them on the Tekton site under “Customer Gallery.” (My pic has an orange desert scene on the TV.) Funny, when I was unboxing them I was thinking to myself, “Lisa is going to kill me.” While she was a little startled at their size, she thought they sounded great! She is NOT an audiophile, but she has been very impressed with what a good system can do for musical enjoyment. I’m one of those lucky guys who married right. Now, this might be heresy but I’ll tell you what is upstream; I am listening from my iPod Classic, through an iStreamer outboard DAC. Power source is an older Denon flagship receiver. (AVR5700) Go ahead and poo poo it, but I am extremely happy. Finally, the Tekton Double Impacts are the finest piece of “high end furniture” I’ve ever owned! (Inside owners’ joke.) |
I will look forward to your impressions mac! I'm sure you will be happy with it. Please let us know how it compares to your current tube gear. For that matter, your SS gear as well.
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Thanks teajay, your experiment will be of great interest to me. One of the advantages of the LTA amps is that the DI's 4 ohm impedence doesn't bother them at all. The MZ2-S might drive the DI's easier than a larger SET amp but it sounds like a very worthwhile experiment. I look forward to your results.
Thats exactly what I'm going to do corelli. I'm ordering the MZ2-S next week and I expect that like teajay it will suffice for over 95% of my listening needs. I'll get another pair of Tektons for my SS system for rocking out to and movie watching. I'm still keeping my options open regarding adding a ZOTL 40 later if I feel I need it.
Thanks for thinking outside the box and sharing your results with us teajay. |
Teajay,
That's a very interesting comparison and I look forward to reading your listening impressions of DHT SET amps vs the known high bar performance of the LTA ZOTL amps. What a wonderfully versatile speaker to allow this type of scrutiny of fine low power amplifiers. This will be fun and informative to follow.
Charles |
mac,
You can always start with the Micro-ZOTL and add the 40 if need be. I have to say I am so pleased with my current system I don't feel the need to push the ZOTL button.......yet. I have no doubt the equipment is special as teajay has posted.
I must say, I am partial to integrated amps. Maybe part of me is waiting for what LTA has in the works with their integrated.
The Line Magnetic 518ia still captures my attention. One was just listed on the gon. Not taken with the cosmetics, but my gut tells me it would probably be smokin' with the DI's (maybe literally if not given enough ventilation).
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Hey mac48025,
For my personal taste both in music, mainly acoustic jazz, and volume levels, mainly based on the size of the instruments/singer, along with dynamics about 95% of the time I'm fine without the ZOTL-40 amp. For a matter of fact I'm going to start experimenting with the Micro-ZOTL driving SET 2A3 or 300B based amps in the next couple of weeks. This should be very interesting, can I get the overall power/pop of the Micro-ZOTL and all the meat on the bones and color of either of these tubes? Going from the 1 watt of the Micro-ZOTL as an amp to either 4 or 8 watts for the SET amps could be a match made in heaven! The combo of LTA is still world class, these other combinations will give different tastes and this experimenting is possible because the DI's are such an easy load to drive. |
Teajay,
Thanks for the invite and sent you a email
Cheers... |
Teajay,
do you find that the MZ2-S has enough headroom for dynamic transients when driving the DI's without the ZOTL 40? I imagine that if you can obtain 100 db sound levels with the MZ alone that the ZOTL 40 could rupture more than eardrums! Having gone back and forth between the two, what's your preference?
Thanks for your input. |
Hey sproket75,
You are more the welcome to come hear the DI's at my home. Just send me an Email at terryjaylondon@gmail.com
Just put back the ZOTL-40 amplifier back in the system for some listeners who wanted some Jimi Hendrix and James Brown at "party" level DB levels. Well, the DI's with forty watts stayed absolutely clean with no distortion/strain at all and shook the room. This was at levels that you don't want to listen to for very long time periods, unless you don't care about going deaf! |
Hi corelli You are welcome any time my system is the home theater system aolprodj
Tee Jays,Friend.Drop me a e-mail Prodjsound@aol.com
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Anyone in the Chicagoland that has a standard pair and would kindly offer a audition. always like to hear speakers in person, regardless of price or specs.
Cheers |
Finally, finally have the USB feed more optimized. Running Roon via a Small Green Computer sonicTransporter AP as core/server. Feeds a Sonore microRendu with upgraded cabling, and powered by an UltraCap LPS-1. The LPS-1 and sT are powered by an HD-Plex.
Have the Schiit Yggdrasil - HeadAmp - Moon 330A combo back in rotation. I prefer this chain's slight edge in delicacy, ease, and insight into the music over the other systems. This system gives-up a bit in the lower frequencies and in weight/fullness vs the SST amp. I will cycle back to DAC/amp comparisons once I get the system dialed in more with the power side of the chain and with room treatment.
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All quiet on the Double Impact front?
Listening, not Forum-ing....?
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@kdude66 : Kenny, That's terrific! Happy that you are happy.
It's great that your wife is supportive and engaged with your audio passion.
I used to own the Soul Superflys with the upgrades...miss them at times.
Read your post from the Electron thread also. Looks like you are already quite happy with the DIs. Have fun tomorrow!
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They look really good,top quality paint job.I bought black metallic gloss, probably a Ferrari color.
They have very good quality woodwork with solid construction and looks like the 6inch mids and tweeter array are in there own chamber and the 2 woofers have the volume of the majority of the cabinet.
I just now got them hooked up in my main system moving my Zu Defs too my 2nd system.Pretty late,wife went to bed so I will play with them tomorrow.
I'm lucky I have a really good wife that supports my passions,and she really likes the looks of them and they go well with the other decor of the room,can't beat that.She said if they sound as good as they look we will have a winner.
I'm going too move my pair of subs back in,didn't need them with the defs.I'm not working tomorrow can't hardly wait,51 yr old kid with a new toy.
Kenny.
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@kdude66
Kenny, looking forward to reading about your impressions!
How do they look out of the box?
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I use Herbies sliders and love them! Sound great and so easy to move the speakersas needed. Great! |
Hello all,
I received my Di's today,packed well and no damage.
I will set them up tomorrow and give them music too break them in.
Kenny. |
I got a chance to hear the DI and LTA combo at Mike's place. His main room is absolutely cavernous, yet the speakers were able to play cleanly with either the ten or one watt setup.
After hearing over a hundred rooms at AXPONA last weekend, I was totally impressed with the DI as driven in his system. Dynamic, holographic imaging and depth and a fast but non fatiguing sound.
My tastes run toward speakers such as electrostats, Maggies, Raidhos and Harbeths. The DI's compared extremely well with all of them.
Impressed! Very impressed. |
The Herbies Giant threaded gliders are perfect for the DI's. Like David said its not a huge sonic improvement but one nonetheless. What I like best is the ease of moving the speakers. Never thought of doubling up with the Fat gliders, but since mine are on carpet I can't imagine them helping......but who knows? |
All this talk about Herbie's Sliders I had to try a pair! Heck, even if they don't sound better, being able to slide speakers around is a huge plus!
Anyway, will post our findings once received.
Thanks!
Mike
Audio Archon - dealer |
I have Herbie gliders under 3 prs of speakers and my Target stands ,
My # 1 tweak in 45 years as an Audiofool . |
Herbie's Audio speaker isolation Gliders are in-system now. I went with 8 Giant Threaded Stud Gliders, 1 inch length, screwed in flush with the Double Impact's base. I did not use the nuts since they left a gap between the base and the isolation device.
Manh, do they make the speakers easy to move on our hardwood flooring!
I did notice a sonic difference, though I would label it as "one of more," a bit more in this case... rather than one of' an order of magnitude' difference.
I wanted to utilize the isolation platforms I've been using for years now. In addition to sonic improvements, they just happen to look really good with the Double Impacts, at least to my eyes, and provide an 'early warning' to my son : )
So, I also ordered 8 Giant Fat Gliders. Robert Herbelin didn't feel strongly about doubling up, but advised me to experiment. I used Blu-Tack between the Gliders and the isolation platform.
@klh007 had recommended I try three configurations. I skipped one : )
It's amazing what our senses are capable of....I had one speaker with the Threaded Gliders screwed in (on the floor) and the other with the Glider - Iso Platform - Threaded Gliders. My ears just wanted to listen to one speaker. It was so very clear and easy to pick up.
Again, not an order of magnitude difference. Just more. And a lot more with the doubled up solution. And more rightness / righteousness musically.
Everything has tightened up. Taut is the word I would use, along with greater fullness (body) which seem oppositional as elements. Better separation and depth into the music, more detail and clarity. More fun, more enjoyment.
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