Systems over $100k

@mahgister what did you say?

@jg2077 

How are you Jose? We spoke before. I thought you were going to sell your Solos? No I have not compared anything as of yet. I have spoken with some folks. I am in the preliminary planning part of this. I was very close in going with APEX/COMMANDER, however the part in which the Mephisto/Pandora was going to be worked into the deal fell apart. Will perhaps have to consider a private deal in the future? I am almost happy it went this way, money better spent with speaker upgrade. The Mephisto/Pandora with My EMM  LABS DV2, just work well together. The transparent nature of Gryphon and the Organic presentation of the DV2 pair well.  All though I have NO Complaints with JA 20/20's. They do everything right. Cygnus are exceptional! In terms of Preamp I like to pair preamp with the same company's amplification. The green Bias is another plus for me. Huge room, 30 X 26 X 26H, A frame Log Home. Head Room is needed! I have heard good things about Nagra HD. How would you say the Nagra HD distinguished itself from the Pandora? All the Best Jose...

John

@ghdprentice So jealous!  I used to sell their stuff and it is awesome.  I realize not EVERYTHING they made/make is SOTA, but if you (possibly) have the new big Maggies being run by all Audio Research reference gear, you truly have the most accurate system I have ever heard.

Doing your room as well, since it is, once again, THE MOST IMPORTANT element in any system, is key.

These days, my new "downsized" home will no longer permit me to have the system I would like, but then again this house is for my child to sell when I am gone, so value is key at this point.

Still jealous, however.  Wish I had purchased 3 D-150's back then...Oh, well, it makes me happy that people like yourself realized what was what and use the best gear.

Cheers!

@jakesnak.  Greetings, i hope all is well. 

I don't know what to replace the Solos with...i will compare to Apex once available.   Most of all, I'm really Intrested in the Commander.  NAGRA HD has an organic,  natural sound that paired well with Solos; hard combination to beat.  

Cheers, 

Jose 

@jg2077 

Thanks Jose, yes the Commander looks quite substantial. If I got wind of the new line, perhaps would have waited before purchasing the Pandora. Actually not perhaps! I would have waited. Pandora is only 2 months old. Your Solos with the Cygnus and Nagra HD will be hard pressed for very many others to compete with. Take good care man....

  John

Acoustic method with passive treatment and mechanical active control of the dedicated small room is more POWERFUL than almost any upgrade of any piece of gear..

Audiophile experience is linked to acoustic knowledge not to price tags..

The electronic engineering market is mature so much now that we can buy basically good piece of gear at relatively low costs...

The acoustic knowledge of small room is in his infancy because the need for a dedicated small room was not there save for few customers... Most customers put their system in a living room...

My point is the only luxury in audio is DEDICATED tunable room for the specfic speakers...

I dont give a dam about costly gear...I dont need it to fill my room with 3d musical instruments with natural timbre  and even relatively to some record sound coming from my back with this steroe basic system... it is clear?

The ratio of S.Q. of my modest system is over the roof...It is not the best system at all...But my dedicated room is at his best for this speakers which are already basic good one for sure...

i put all my 7 headphones of all types in a closet..Think about that... Electrostatcis, planar, dynamc one and hibryd one... How this is possible if the sound of my speakers room is not better than each one of them ?

It is and why?

ACOUSTIC control...

that is my point in a nutshell...

@mahgister what did you say?

OK...I can see why it was deleted.

Yes, by any metric it’s over 100.

Last several years have been a constant push & pull between "done for now", "ever evolving", and "I want to try a new toy". I can’t say that will ever change!

Every major component sounds distinctly different in this system - so I’ve ended up collecting a few different preamps, a few different amps, many cartridges and SUT, lots of tubes, etc. Some combinations are definitely better than others, so I’m focusing on optimizing around the best of those and trying to settle on a "best" combination for all music genres, hopefully for a while. Presently what's holding that up - I have one combination which is a bit lacking for harder rock & heavy metal, but sounds best on everything else 😬

I’m not interested in those that try to oversell acoustic treatments. The gear is what’s most important to me.

Your question reminds me of the 3-part one that got me banned from /r/askreddit: 

What is the most valuable thing you own,  

What's your address, and  

When are you most likely not to be home?   

People posted some great answers until a mod made it clear that doxxing is no laughing matter. Bet they're a lot of fun at parties. 

@mulveling you definitely need to make it sound great for metal! What do you need to change for that? Very nice system. I think you should try the Audio Physic Cardeas with the VAC amplification. 

System price is absolutely no indication of system performance. I do not think it is any easier to build a good system if you have a lot of money to throw at it. I would also include the room as one of the components. If you place great equipment, well set up, in a terrible room you get a terrible system. 

I will be done when I can not imagine better sound. 

@infection

@mulveling you definitely need to make it sound great for metal! What do you need to change for that? Very nice system. I think you should try the Audio Physic Cardeas with the VAC amplification.

Thanks! The VAC preamp & amp combination is what saps just a bit of the adrenaline and drive for heavy metal but wins outright on all other music. Any breakup of the 2 units can absolutely slay with metal - for example, VAC 200iQ amps paired with ARC Ref 6, or the VAC Master pre paired with either Phison A2.120SE or Rogue Apollo Dark amps. It’s just the VAC pre & amp pairing which lags specifically on stuff with a very fast, hard and driving beat. The full VAC stack is extremely smooth and beautiful sounding, but not quite as clean / punchy / driving and impactful in bass as the other 3 combos I mentioned. Well, to be fair, when a power metal song slows down a bit (Avantasia, Magnum) the VAC stack shines again! Kevin Hayes of VAC is literally a wizard of voicing components, nobody else can do what he does, but I don’t think he listens to any metal 😅

Honestly I wish I could flip a switch to one of the other combos for just metal and harder driving rock. That would be sufficient! But even if there is a truly transparent switching mechanism, I lack the floor / rack space to pull it off.

All of the cartridges and SUTs I like can also do heavy metal well - no issues there.

Several years ago I heard an Audio Physic with VAC in the chain (Renaissance III preamp, though I forget what amp). I forget which model, it looked similar to the one you mentioned but slightly smaller. It had the cone tweeter, a couple of front facing midrange drivers, and side firing woofers. Yeah, it was a gorgeous sound - absolutely amazing soundstage and imaging. I was kinda smitten. Unfortunately my dealer stopped carrying them.

Some years back I wandered into a watch shop in Germany that looked interesting. Owning an Omega Seamaster Professional I considered myself a watch aficionado. I got schooled that day. Every watch in that store was hand made. The prices were breathtaking as much as the beauty of some of those pieces. The proprietor looked at my Omega with disdain and mentioned it being simply a mass produced watch. That store was way out of my league and I never had the need for such a watch. I realized then that at some point it is not about how much money or even performance. Even those expensive handmade watches cannot outperform a $20 quartz timepiece. It becomes about having something no one else has as well as something to simply admire like a fine crystal vase. Look and feel in a watch is everything.

If you are looking for performance per dollar in a stereo then the best path is used vintage gear with internal component updates and tweaks. I went that path for many years starting in the late 80’s. Ugly looks was a thing of pride like a rusty 63 Chevy that can beat any Corvette. It is a fun path to discovery of what works and what is not so great that can be very rewarding. By the late 90s I was wading into the expensive gear but with an eye for manufacturers using components and designs that made good sense. I have to admit that the expensive stuff can sound really, really good. Of course at some point spending more money does not gain much sonic benefit. Then it becomes about look and feel.

I have appreciation for some of my buddies’ systems in the past that looked kluged together- the industrial look, I called it but sounded amazing and for the highly finished and polished systems that could be in a museum. But when the lights are out looks mean nothing and it is all about the sound.

I will be done when I can not imagine better sound. 

?? It can always improve...

Tonywinga, every thing in Germany is interesting !

Yes it is!  I got to live and work there for a few years back at the end of the 20th Century.  It was still a DM economy back then.  My family and I loved the experience.  I cherish those memories.

Is that defined by retail pricing or what we actually spent ? 

@aj523  construe as you wish

100K+  Plan to add more Rel subs and a new DAC at some point.  

If I hit a giant lottery, yes I will buy at least 100k system for my man room....and a better one for the living room.Oh and another one for the library, wait and one for Cinema Room....probably 500k 

So you bought a system worth over $100,000 and now you’re going to Disneyland?

It’s all about the journey and the destination sometimes not as much fun unless it’s Disneyland. Is it possible to ever be satisfied?

It’s incredibly difficult to learn about all there is to learn about and then to make decisions and then to find something Nice to look at and then if you’re married you have to satisfy your wife which is the toughest challenge. Of course if you’re single it makes it all a whole lot easier.

Of course rationalizing justification for spending in excess of $100,000 to improve how something sounds is something that many of us don’t really think about unless of course you’re married.

Add then there is the local dealer you’ve worked with in the past who doesn’t sell the stuff you really want to buy which makes it more frustrating since you can’t really see and hearsomething before you buy it. Taking delivery via UPS of a box costing a lot can be risky. I would prefer giving money to someone who I know and have worked with in the past. I think this industry will migrate to more direct sales from manufacturers as dealers unfortunately don’t offer much value as manufacturers tend to talk to you in more detail vs a dealer.

And then the choice of selling off equipment that has been upgraded is a pain in the ass so i have a dedicated place to store all the stuff as I hate selling stuff at such a huge discount.

Then my greatest fear if something should happen to me is that all the expensive cables I have bought Will be sold off for pennies on the dollar since no one will know what they are.  In this case I am labeling all my expensive cables with a $ amount.  No doubt this will be shocking.

I know it can be daunting to think about, especially for a young person starting out in audio to see the high cost of hifi gear.  Most of us did not walk into a store and buy a complete system at one time.  I couldn't even imagine trying to build a system and know it is optimized in a single purchase event.  Most like me, I'm sure have built up their systems over decades through a slow methodical process with many twists and turns and even backtracks.  We all have our stories that go with the evolution of our hifi's.

The best path for a young person getting into audio is to first and always stay within your means.  Patience and learning payoff over time.  Key is to buy well known trusted brands- used or new.  These brands over the years hold their value.  Many new names and what appear as terrific design ideas pop up but these purchases can be risky and may be worth very little in the future.  Perhaps the best thing about the hifi hobby is that you can essentially make payments on your system as you go so to speak.  As you save up for an amp or speaker upgrade you can still enjoy the amp and speakers that you have.

I started in this hobby in 1977 with a used Kenwood receiver and a couple of beat up old speakers.  I spent many hours looking longingly at the hifi gear in stores over the years imagining what joy it all could have brought me in my home.  Learning about gear and synergy of the various hifi components through a network of friends or clubs is priceless.  Tweaks and upgrades from as simple as bass traps to new capacitors in crossovers can provide a lot of satisfaction and learning in this hobby. And the gear is just the half of it.  Then there is the whole world of music to discover.  Many musicians and bands are just as amazing as a half million dollar mega system.

@tonywinga 

+1