I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
The Johnny Mann singers what the world needs now is love sweet love on readers digest melodies and memories collection. You've never heard how good Muzak can sound off your daddy's radio. Artificial stereo mixing in the recording but fools me who cares.
Belshazzars feast on Rca red seal again. Orchestra and choral work and very good recording. A nice challenge. Again very ethereal. Lots to hear in this one.
As a person who has been immersed in commissioned sales most of his life, I never rely on logic. Its all seat of the pants for me. With that said, its amazing how one can acquire a sixth sense for reading people.
Mapman ...
If you decide to keep the fuse, you don't owe me anything. I intended it to be a gift ... and that's what I want it to be. If, on the other hand, you don't decide to keep it, just return it and I'll gift it to another friend. BUT ... please, stop moving it in and out of your system. Just keep in in there for at least 50 to 100 hours to re-break it in. I suspect that it laid dormant too long to sound correct right out of the box.
By the way, the Black fuses and the level three SR Atmosphere power cords have finally reached the point of break-in where the tonal balance and organic sense of instruments are really sounding correct now. My friend Robert came over for dinner and a listening session last night and he raved about both the food and the music. The food? My home made Mexican
albondigas soup. Yum. Keep in mind that Robert is a real cynic and will tell you in a heartbeat if something doesn't sound right in your system.
Astro lounge by smashmouth. Sounds very good. Visi d'art from Tosca. check. Jet by PM and Wings. A track I know well. Not hearing anything radically different but sounds great as usual.
Rhapsody on a theme by Paganini from Somewhere in Time soundtrack. Very average recording but did not seem to matter.
Temptations cant get next to you. A little closed in but convincing nonetheless.
Soundstage is wall to wall about 22 feet or so and totally detached from speakers. But that's par for the course for the Ohm F5s in my largest listening room which also happens to be L shaped.
Im just listening and not mucking with changing fuses. The red guy is in there sans quantum sticker thingy.
Santa Clog. Klezmer anyone? Rough Guide series seldom disappoints. Very nice. Trench town rock by bob Marley. Wailers on harmony vocals I think coming through nicely. Bass line holding together nicely. Fuses seem up to the task along with all the rest.
Things are sounding really good. Some Neil Young Harvest Moon, Hair original Broadway soundtrack (one of my favorite bass guitar rock performances). Now some opera on RCA Red Seal. Awesome. Squeezebox touch on random play so getting a nice random sample of my music library to listen to.
I am of two minds on such topics, and wouldn't have it any other way. My education is in math/statistics and I have loved the career it gave me in logic. So I can wear that hat, and that mind can remain cautious of magic, yet respecful of the sensitivities of my other mind as it stands at the amp, swaps directions of a SR Black, and immediately senses that something is off as I turn up the volume.
I have so enjoyed logic, but equally enjoy the endless mystery and beauty of perception, artistic expression, and emotions. To require one to be right seems to limit the human experience.
As for the sub-thread on albums, I'm no jazz expert, but I find my new Hugh Masekela album "Hope" to be extraordinary, both sonically and musically.
from long time Synergistic Research dealer’s website,
"Synergistic Research has a new, ’top of the line’ addition to their highly regarded fuse lineup: the BLACK Fuse.
For best performance, fuses should be installed one way, listened to, and then reversed the other way to determine best sonic orientation."
to recap, the RED fuse is supposedly non-directional (according to SR?) by virtue of the special RED fuse only treatment that realigns the crystal structure or some such thing. We can come back to that claim later. The BLACK fuse on the other hand IS directional, but not marked for direction, apparently not even using the S and R approach, so the user must try it BOTH WAYS to see which way sounds best. Make sense?
Exhibit B - the same dealer states for the RED fuse:
"For best performance, fuses should be installed one way, listened to, and then reversed the other way to determine best sonic orientation."
So, is that the dealer’s suggestion or SR? You be the judge.
Mapman, thanks so much for the exceedingly nice words!
I’ll add that I always enjoy, and not infrequently learn from, your invariably balanced, knowledgeable, and level-headed posts.
Also, I don’t disagree with George’s characterization of me as a fence-sitter when it comes to some controversial tweaks. Especially in cases such as this one where the seemingly implausible magnitude of the claimed benefit is supported by testimony from several members I consider to be particularly credible.
That said, my bias, to the extent that I have one, always tends to be in the direction of focusing my investments of time and money where I believe those investments are likeliest to be most beneficial. With that judgment being made based on both my own knowledge and experiences that are reported by others, which I try to calibrate based on who is doing the reporting, and on the apparent thoroughness of their experimental methodology. My perception is that you have a similar outlook.
"By the way, Geoffkait--in looking at your MD site, I presume your intent is to amuse and educate audiophiles. I appreciate your inventiveness and humor. Just wondering though--if I were to add your teleportation tweak or the intelligent chips to my shopping cart, do you then say, "Stop--enough--I don't actually take your money or send you anything. It's all a hoax, meant to educate the naive." Or, do you really take my money to commit the ultimate scam? You may want to start a new thread on this, or you may choose silence, but please--let's get to the bottom of MD and your real mission."
Yes, just buy them and try if interested. Return within 30 days if not floating your boat.
Is that the end of the thread maybe? What else really matters that has not been covered?
I guess we’ll find out. :^)
Maybe once we solve this problem we can all then move on to world peace.
Wolf, 8000000 volt burn in of a 500V rated fuse doesn’t come cheap. Imagine the electricity bill alone. Not to mention hazard insurance for the folks actually in charge. Do they have that in China?
"I have seven SR reds in my system that were placed in three phases, each of which sounded so right, I have not felt a need to flip them. I would discount directionality on the reds in favor of a long break in period."
That's nice. I actually don't blame you for ignoring the directionality issue. Sounding right is relative. Most audiophiles probably think their systems just sound right. You don't actually see too many audiophiles saying, gosh, my system really sucks.
To sum up: I estimate the manufacturing cost of the fuses to be about 2 to 5 bucks, they're sold for $99 or so, and for my entire system (really the only way to realize your full enjoyment potential) is into $700 to $1000 territory. So much for "cheap" tweaks. If they don't break in by keeping them passing electrons for 170 hours (about a month of lots of hifi), you likely have them in backwards or they're not for you. The fuses work their mojo regardless of the standard fuse holders made from arguably less "special" and likely "non directional" metal…the description of why these do their job so well are obtuse and don't truly make much sense to "thee of lessor faith," and most of the faithful don't care since their systems were booted into the higher level "free flowing water" these fuses allow…notwithstanding the power supply, less precious metals and wires, and other gizmo designs causing some rapids downstream, and the ridiculous profit margins realized by a company that actually sells expensive painted aluminum bits for tonearms is the American Way. You go SR…please.
" "Al’s a bit of a fence sitter with things like this. "
My guess is, as an obviously very accomplished, seemingly altruistic, unbiased and knowledgeable EE who loves music and audio, (not to mention a very precise thinker and communicator), Al would rather make decisions that are consistent with the technical facts. So the more facts to base things on the better to help jump off the fence.
Just my gut assessment....
By the way that combination of things is very hard to find. Congrats to Al’s parents!
By the way, Geoffkait--in looking at your MD site, I presume your intent is to amuse and educate audiophiles. I appreciate your inventiveness and humor. Just wondering though--if I were to add your teleportation tweak or the intelligent chips to my shopping cart, do you then say, "Stop--enough--I don't actually take your money or send you anything. It's all a hoax, meant to educate the naive." Or, do you really take my money to commit the ultimate scam? You may want to start a new thread on this, or you may choose silence, but please--let's get to the bottom of MD and your real mission.
If the fuses are directional and it matters, it should not be a mystery.
Do what OP suggested early on. If you have a question or issue go to the source (Synergistic Research) ask your question and let the experts resolve it.
If you find out anything new of interest, please share with others here.
I have seven SR reds in my system that were placed in three phases, each of which sounded so right, I have not felt a need to flip them. I would discount directionality on the reds in favor of a long break in period.
Question, there is a review in Positive Feedback of the SR Red Fuse, a very positive one I might add. Here's the relevant paragraph for my question.
"The Synergistic Research Reference RED fuse is a horse of a different color. The basic design features proprietary alloy wire and end caps utilizing anti-resonant ceramic bodies. They are treated with 2,000,000 volts of electricity that Synergistic Research calls Quantum Tunneling. In addition, Synergistic Research claims that "a new treatment process applied exclusively to RED fuses realigns the crystal structure of both the burn wire and the end caps for a refinement in high frequency characteristics and improved timbre linearity"."
So, this begs the question, does Synergistic Research claim the Red Fuse is non-directional? It seems to me that their "new treatment process applied exclusively to RED fuses (that) realigns the crystal structure" would make the RED fuse non directional. If that's true what all this about the letters S and R? Or does that S and R business apply only to the BLACK fuse? Furthermore, and this is really my question, regardless of what SR claims, is the RED fuse really non-directional, or is it directional? Has anyone actually gotten to the bottom of this?
""But to me these fuses are up there with Shaun Mook Mpingo pucks, very unexplainable things going on, can really **** with your head."
This is where I find being generally disinterested in how this sort of thing works a true bonus. I already have enough stuff ****ing with my head both professionally and as an unpaid volunteer elected official!"
More sympathetic I could not be. Have you tried Dr. Phil?
"I’m trying to think but nothing happens." - Curly
"But to me these fuses are up there with Shaun Mook Mpingo pucks, very unexplainable things going on, can really **** with your head."
This is where I find being generally disinterested in how this sort of thing works a true bonus. I already have enough stuff ****ing with my head both professionally and as an unpaid volunteer elected official!
"Al’s a bit of a fence sitter with things like this.
But to me these fuses are up there with Shaun Mook Mpingo pucks, very unexplainable things going on, can really **** with your head."
The Shun Mook Mpingo discs work by sympathetic resonance. So, it’s actually explainable. It’s not voodoo. It’s not pseudo science. No reason for all the angst and wringing of hands.
From the Shun Mook website:
"There is no real magic about our products. They are all based on simple high school physics - "Sympathetic Resonance". As all elements in this universe will resonate when like pattern energy is generated from another material. Just as in a physics experiment when you excite a metal tuning fork of say the "A" frequency and hold it close to another static "A" tuning fork. The result is that the second tuning fork will also get excited because same frequency energy is transferred through the air to cause the vibration."
Note to Davidpritchard. Re fuses, I thought we already went over this. I have no fuses or straight wires (fuse bypass) in my system. I.e., there is no fuse protection and no fuse protection necessary, and no provision for fuses or fuse holders. Thus the question I had put to you earlier in the thread: "Wouldn’t no fuse be better than any fuse, even a Black fuse?" Does that jog your memory? ;-)
geoff kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right
Dave it would take me a long time to put 75 to a hundred hours of burn in time on the fuse. I typically get in a few hours a week of listening. I do not leave the arc tube preamp on when not listening to save life of tubes. I'll do the best I can though. We will see. The book is still open for me.
Yes thanks to op for lending me the fuse. It'll go back to him or I will pay him for it if I decide to keep it. I should get some more listening time in this weekend.
I appreciate that you have tried the RED fuse and hopefully have given it 75 to 100 hrs. to settle in. After this time has passed and if you do not think the sonic improvement is worth a $100.00 please send it back to Oregonpappa.
This is the beauty of the Synergistic Research Black and RED fuses. You get a long evaluation period and if you do not find the change worth the money send them back. Returning a non satisfying purchase is liberating.
I do think Geoff should order some Synergistic Black fuses and compare this latest technology to the older generation audio fuses and the use of no fuse at all. He is missing out on some new exciting technology.
nyame:
Thank you for the kind words. I have invested a lot of time evaluating the stock, SR-20, RED and now Black fuses in multiple components and systems. The Black fuses certainly have new technology in place that causes a greater positive change than the previous generations of fuses. Having all the fuses replaced with Black fuses gives an improvement that is greater than a linear improvement.
To me the real important lesions of this thread are: 1. Try a device in your system that allows you to evaluate it for a significant amount of time and allows you to send it back with no "justification" necessary. 2. Become comfortable with critical listening. 3. Become comfortable sending demo's back that do not meet expectations. 4. Evaluate possible system improvements in some sort of systemic approach. 5. Have fun. 6. Allow others to have different opinions. 7. Be respectful of other posters.
I hope all will take time to enjoy some music this week that not just makes the foot tap but also enriches the soul.
A few words on evaluating the Synergistic research fuses. Think of fuses as being part of a system. Changing one fuse in a system is not going to result in the mind blowing results that some have experienced. Let us say you are a farmer downstream a river with 8 dams. Removing the first dam will result in a a small increase in water flow at your downstream location, but the water will flow freely only when all 8 dams have been cleared. About a year ago I installed red fuses in my system. 2 in my SACD player, one in my preamp and 4 in my power amp. The benefits were immediate and awesome. After a few weeks it improved even more. It is not surprising that the most assured voice in this forum is David Pritchard who installed 13 fuses in his system. It is only when the last fuse is upgraded that the full benefits of the upgrade will be fully release. Take my word for this.
Look, bottom line is you get a 30 day return period, right, so you can return it if not worth it by then. So there you go. No risk really to try. Please just be honest and report your results here either way. Don't let anyone intimidate you.
Based on The results and responses on this thread the positive to negative ratio of success is about 10 or 12 to 1. That represents overwhelming success, The neutral or negative results are quite rare. charles,
"The difference between these tweaks and the fuses though is the fuses are essentially a black box with little info to work with regarding how they work or when they are most effective or not. So its a potshot/hit or miss. Almost every tweak enhancement has known dependencies that determine effectiveness. You are shooting totally blind until you try with fuses. That’s really the only objection I have and why I would not recommend them to others. There is nothing to base saying they will work or not on other than what I hear. Each case could be quite different and results vary as we are seeing here."
So you keep saying. Actually in case you weren’t paying attention and as I just commented to Al, we have already listed many reasons why fuses should work. In addition, I just listed four reasons why audiophiles sometimes don’t get good results from tweaks. I suspect what we actually have here is a full blown case of the Backfire Effect and no, I’m not referring to eating too many Boston baked beans. Besides we are actually NOT seeing what you say, "results vary as we are seeing here." What we ARE seeing is everyone else getting good results and you, who didn't get good results. So as we say in the biz, your statement is pretty much of a, you guessed it, Strawman argument.
From Rational Wiki
The backfire effect occurs when, in the face of contradictory evidence, established beliefs do not change but actually get stronger. The effect has been demonstrated experimentally in psychological tests, where subjects are given data that either reinforces or goes against their existing biases - and in most cases people can be shown to increase their confidence in their prior position regardless of the evidence they were faced with.
As they say in France, the more things change the more they stay the same.
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