I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
nayme, You raise some very good points. I can recall the ridicule and skepticism when capacitors were first said to vary in sound quality despite identical specifications. Same ridicule regarding power cords and interconnects. People aren't laughing anymore. The problem is that often people can hear sonic differences long before a reasonable scientific /technical explanation is formulated.
I accept this lag between observation and explanation but recognize that others find this difficult to do. If given the opportunity to hear an audio product I'll report what I hear ,good, bad or indifferent. If I can’t provide a technical argument to support what I've heard, that's okay with me. Eventually one will be found, in the mean while if the product sounds good I'm going to enjoy it. Charles,
On 5/20/16 slaw wrote: "Can any of you explain why an item such as a fuse has such an impact on sound?
The honest answer is that we do not have all the answers. There are probably several factor involved. We do know however that it does. And accepting this fact is the first step on the road to finding out why.
We do know that the best fuses can elevate the performance of a high definition system to startlingly higher levels of performance. The sonic benefits of the fuse are proportional to the quality of the system in which it is placed as well as the capacity of the audiophile to know what live music sounds like. A low quality system ( which in some cases includes expensive amplifiers and/or loudspeakers) may not have the resolution to reveal some of these changes. For example many systems cannot important changes to soundstage information like front to back depth and soundstage height. Also if the system lacks quietness, low level information will be lost.
It is no coincidence that the originator of his thread "Oregonpapa" has a very high performance system with reference quality products. Moreover he is a music lover with keen ears and a history of live performances. (I confess that I have never met or spoken to Oregonpapa . My description of his system and life experiences are gleaned from this thread) When confronted with the dramatic results brought about the Synergistic Research fuse he could not restrain himself. He had to tell his fellow audiophiles the good news. It is important to note that he was blown away by the incredible realism of the saxophone in one of his favorite albums. An audiophile whose system is inadequate, or who has no knowledge of the sound of acoustical instruments may not notice any significant changes when playing the same album.
When I said above that we do not know why a fuse can have a large effect on the fidelity of a system, I do not mean to imply that no has the answers. The first thing to realize is that a fuse by itself cannot improve fidelity. However when placed in an amplifier, the amplifier can produce the changes we hear. When I first heard the synergistic fuse I immediately recognized the changes as amplifier sourced. The addition of the fuse was a modification to the amplifier in the same way that Modwright or other individuals modify amplifiers. The fuse when placed in an amplifier behaves in accordance with established fundamental principles. The real challenge is find out which of these fundamental principles has the most dominant effects in this application.
I was faced with a similar quandary in 1980. I had a system close to reference quality, which I sought to improve. But how? Then I saw an article by Jung & Marsh in Audio magazine. At that time audio designers would calculate the capacitance value of a capacitor for a given amplifier circuit. However, when Jung and Marsh built these amplifiers using capacitors from various manufacturers, listening tests revealed that they all sounded differently. This was a shocking result. How can caps with the same values sound so differently? It turned out that none of the caps were behaving as a pure capacitor should. Although each had the same measured capacitor value they had significant resistance and inductive values not specified in the circuit diagrams. To complicate matters even further each cap used a different dielectric and there was a huge correlation between dielectric material and sound quality. I was able to acquire some high quality caps, built in response to the audio magazine article and as I changed each cap I heard a massive improvement in sound quality.
My guess is that vibrational energy caused by current flowing through the fuse will be identified as a major factor in fuse performance. But this is a topic for another time.
"Can you believe it, there are even people who don’t hear the effect of aftermarket fuses or directionality?"
Based on my experience with the SR Black fuses, I DO find it hard to believe. Very hard. I have to question what else is going on in their systems.
On initial installation, the Blacks have it all over the Red fuses ... and the improvements are heard right off the bat after installation. That's not to say that there aren't problems. For example, there is some grain and a hard, non-musical edge initially until the fuse breaks in. BUT, one can clearly hear the blacker background, the additional air around instrument and the improved dynamics instantly. At 70-100 hours, the fuse seems to really open up and everything comes into serious focus and then the musicality hits you right between the eyes.
For those who cannot hear the difference, or for those who are so convinced that these fuse upgrades cannot work and won't even try them ... Well ... I'm really happy that I am not you. Why? Because the SR Black fuses have completely transformed my system into something unbelievable. My audiophile friends say the same thing every time they come over for a listening session. And I can assure everyone reading this that the system was no slouch prior to my first experiment with the fuses that started this entire thread.
slaw 1,137 posts 05-22-2016 4:18pm "The OP wrote:..."there was an immediate improvement upon installation".
This statement alone was a verification of an immediate sonic improvement, without the benefit of further listening. However, the OP did go on to say that subtle improvements followed."
This is just (one) example of the "instant" effect, I base my posts on regarding this tweak.Similar comments can be made for any wire, cable, power cord, speaker cables. That’s not inconsistent with the concept of break in. There is no reason why a fuse that is not broken in, brand new, cannot sound better than whatever fuse it replaced. Especially if the previous fuse was installed backwards. Ditto interconnects, which are also directional. I also believe you'll find comments vary considerably, so one person might call results AFTER fuse break in subtle whereas another might use the word, spectacular. Can you believe it, there are even people who don’t hear the effect of aftermarket fuses or directionality?
The OP wrote:..."there was an immediate improvement upon installation".
This statement alone was a verification of an immediate sonic improvement, without the benefit of further listening. However, the OP did go on to say that subtle improvements followed.
This is just (one) example of the "instant" effect, I base my posts on regarding this tweak.
"I trust you are not suggesting fuses DON’T experience break in"
I did not say that. It’s an issue that I just don’t recall reading about.
What I read the most, regarding the "instant" effect fuses have in one’s system, is just that, it somehow (instantly) transforms the sonic signature of a given component. I NEVER read that, say, upon, hours of listening, this fuse has gradually made my component better in upon hours of listening/break-in.
This may be the difference in our opinion."
That’s a little bit of an irony since I just made the comment the other day that when someone says he could find no mention of this or that it actually means he didn’t look or didn’t look in the right places. Let me give you a for instance. If you search this forum for the term "fuse break in" you will find 417 instances. I hate to judge before all the facts are in but I strongly suspect you will find what a you’re looking for among those 417 posts. I also have a feeling that many of those posts on the subject of fuse break in can be found on this very thread.
"I trust you are not suggesting fuses DON'T experience break in"
I did not say that. It's an issue that I just don't recall reading about.
What I read the most, regarding the "instant" effect fuses have in one's system, is just that, it somehow (instantly) transforms the sonic signature of a given component. I NEVER read that, say, upon, hours of listening, this fuse has gradually made my component better in upon hours of listening/break-in.
"the fuse doesn't break the signal path, it is part of the signal path".
Can one assume this statement transfers to say, a tonearm wire (from cart to preamp?
In my system, the less "breaks"/additional connections, one has in the signal (regarding the path from a cart to a preamp), the better the sound.
Example: I fashioned a tonearm wireloom for my ET arm that took out two connections that I originally had. The sound quality improved by a wide margin.
Can this same/similar instance, correlate to the role a fuse has in the signal path?
Having said that, why don’t interconnects have a similar, instant, correlation? With interconnects, there is the obvious issues of break-in, the affect of insulation/dielectric, ... and so on.?"
Who says interconnects DON’T have a similar, instant correlation? That’s actually why we are seeing Graphene interconnects pop up, I.e., interconnects are sensitive to degree of conductivity, purity of conductor as well as RFI/EMI, magnetic fields and vibration. That's why we see such things as high purity silver conductors and seven nines purity copper. Just like fuses. That’s why some fuses use very high purity silver conductors and high purity silver end caps. Interconnects also DON’T necessarily have shielding or in some cases, not much of a dielectric/insulation, as per Anti Cables. Furthermore, I trust you are not suggesting fuses DON’T experience break in.
Your post makes more sense (to me), rather than trying to explain, in some fashion, things that cannot be explained or measured, but can be heard by listening.
Can any of you explain why an item such as a fuse, which breaks the signal path, has such an impact on sound?
As far as I am aware no such explanations have ever been provided that would stand up when analyzed or considered quantitatively. That includes the extensive set of measurements of numerous fuses that have been provided in the past by HiFi Tuning, which I commented on earlier in this and other fuse-related threads.
Although of course all kinds of "explanations" can be, and have been, conjured up that by their nature cannot be analyzed quantitatively.
Also, even if differences in any measured parameters were in fact great enough in degree to have a reasonable likelihood of accounting for sonic differences in some applications, it would STILL not be explainable how they might consistently work in the direction of making a positive difference (rather than a negative difference or no difference), among components that are very different in design and perform very different functions and are presumably powered by AC having very different voltages and noise characteristics (those voltages in various cases most likely being both higher and lower than the voltages the components were presumably designed to sound best at).
And even if all of the above were in fact explainable, it would STILL not account for the sonically significant directional effects of fuses that have been reported.
On the other hand, though, the lack of a good explanation does not **necessarily** mean that the consistently positive results that have been reported for fuse upgrades are attributable to misperception, expectation bias, unrecognized extraneous variables, or more cynical factors. My guess, FWIW, is that in some cases the reported results are accurate, and in other cases are attributable to some combination of those other factors.
IMO.
BTW, my thanks to Wolfie and OP for the nice words in some of their recent posts.
Having said that, why don't interconnects have a similar, instant, correlation? With interconnects, there is the obvious issues of break-in, the affect of insulation/dielectric, ... and so on.?
slaw 1,130 posts 05-22-2016 2:11pm "Can any of you explain why an item such as a fuse, which breaks the signal path, has such an impact on sound?"
For AC circuits the fuse is exposed to magnetic fields, RFI/EMI and vibration without benefit of shielding. The fuse doesn't break the signal path, it's part of the signal path.
Imagine there were no fuse and the signal path was pure and consistent throughout. Now insert an inferior metal conductor into said path. It’s the ’weakest link in the chain’ argument on a smaller scale. That’s how I see it.
"None of this will matter under normal operating conditions, btw. The only time the fuse will "see" the line voltage, and hence the only time the voltage rating will matter, is when a fault in the unit necessitates that the fuse blows. If the voltage rating is inadequate, relative to the line voltage, the fuse may not "open" properly, and may continue to conduct current. Or, conceivably, it may explode."
If a fuse were to explode, if in fact that’s possible, who knows? Maybe you’re right, let’s hope to heck it’s not one of those Audio Magic beeswax fuses as it would be very messy and hard to clean up all the beeswax. But seriously you'd think that with all the companies selling aftermarket fuses to a large number of audiophiles, one assumes, that somewhere along the line houses would be burning down or amplifiers exploding due to uninformed impulse buying.
The ARC REF-6 pre amp is on the bucket list ... as is the new ARC phono stage. The REF-3 and the PH-8 that's in the system now are great performers ... so good that I haven't felt the need to upgrade even to the REF-5-se. But with the few reports I've seen on the REF-6 and the new phono amp, the upgrade bug is starting to circulate around the old brain again. I'm sure we'll see some demos of both pieces at the Newport Show.
Speaking of Newport ... is anyone posting here besides Bob and David going? Robert and I will be there Saturday and Sunday ... arriving Saturday, late morning.
Almarg ...
Your posts are always very informative. You're a real asset to the site. Thank you for posting here in this thread. :-)
@charles1dad Thanks for the very warm welcome. I will make sure to post impressions WHEN i get the fuses :)
I will be installing the fuses in the IEC Inlets of both my DAC and Amp. From my amp's manual, i've managed to find out that I require a 4A Slow Blow fuse. Haven't been able to find out what fuse rating I require for my DAC though. Was hoping someone here had experience with the EE Dac and fuse rolling.
Regarding the fuse upgrades Zacho is considering, if the fuses involved are AC mains fuses, and if they are the smaller of the two sizes SR provides (5 x 20 mm), I'm not sure I would feel comfortable using one of those fuses in a 240 volt application. The SR 5 x 20 mm fuses are rated at 250 volts, which doesn't seem like a lot of margin relative to his line voltage, considering also that I wouldn't assume such specs to necessarily be precisely accurate.
The larger 6.3 x 32 mm fuses are rated at 500 volts, which would be fine.
None of this will matter under normal operating conditions, btw. The only time the fuse will "see" the line voltage, and hence the only time the voltage rating will matter, is when a fault in the unit necessitates that the fuse blows. If the voltage rating is inadequate, relative to the line voltage, the fuse may not "open" properly, and may continue to conduct current. Or, conceivably, it may explode.
That was a wonderful five sentence description of the effect the Black fuse has on a system's sound. " The room is filled with sound" - like oregon papa, my system now has this quality with the Black fuses in place.
It really makes the music and the artist's performance take on a very emotional experience. No longer is the music just " over there ". Now I am surrounded and immersed in the sound.
Zacho - The Singapore voltage will not be a problem with the fuses. I do think you will hear a wonderful improvement with the Black fuses in both your amp and DAC. I hope you will try the fuses. I certainly am glad that I did.
OP, have you considered bringing home a Ref 6 to try? You appreciated the upgrade from the Ref 75 to the 75se. It is a much larger upgrade than that. Simply a stunning upgrade.
Good grief ... the fuse change in the amp has brought the system to another new level. The Black fuses are so far superior to the Red fuses in my system that for the small amount of extra money in cost, there is no reason not to buy the Black fuses.
Tonight was a Harmonia Mundi night. We know how great these recordings are ... but the instruments are so clear and three dimensional now .... like never before.
With the new fuse change, its reach out and touch the performers time. So much more air around instruments. The system plays much larger now too. The room is filled with sound. There's wall to wall imaging and more front to back depth.
I have no way to scientifically test these results, nor do I care. I let my ears do the testing for me. Speaking for my system only ... any owner of ARC gear who hasn't converted over to the SR Black fuses, hasn't experienced what ARC gear is capable of. Simply amazing.
Zacho, Hello and welcome to this very fun and friendly thread. I’m not familiar with your components but can’t imagine why you wouldn’t derive noticeable sonic improvement. Here are a few examples.
My system, Coincident electronics(Line Stage and 8 watt SET amplifier ) and speakers. Friend #1,Absolare Passion preamp, Krell mono blocks and Rockport Altair speakers. Friend #2, ARC Preamp and amplifiers with Martin Logan speakers.
Three very different audio systems (and rooms) yet we achieved the same level of improvement using the SR Black fuses. If you have read much of this thread you know that the response of users has been exceptionally positive for many of them.
If you do try them let us know your listening impressions. Charles,
Hi Frank, Oh boy, Hawes with the esteemed Barney Kessel (one of my favorite jazz guitarist ) I'll definitely get that one. I can just hear all the beautiful chords accompanying between those two stellar players. By the way I'd buy it for the album cover alone ☺ Frank you were privileged to have the many live jazz listening experiences during the prime period of West Coast jazz. Charles,
New here and also a virgin to aftermarket fuses. Has anyone here had experience with an Eastern Electric Minimax Plus DAC? Would love to put in a SR Black Fuse in that but I can't seem to find the required rating. (I'm from Singapore and we use 240V if that matters). Would also probably get a SR Black Fuse for my Densen DM10 MkII amp. Really can't wait to start fuse rolling. Feedback here has really made me wanna reach for my wallet...
Robert came over last night for a listening session. I had put the new SR Black fuse in the amp, replacing the SR Red fuse that was in there before. Again, the fuse change brought the system to new heights. Robert's comment after hearing a couple of cuts on vinyl was ... "stunning!"
Once again, its only available in mono, but who cares? :-) The best cut is Hawes playing "The Champ." Really good West Coast Jazz.
I think I mentioned before that I spent many nights in my youth in the middle 1950's haunting the "Lighthouse" jazz club in Hermosa Beach. Man, talk about some great west coast musicians. That place jumped. My friend and I would drink coffee in the back booth until the 2 o'clock closing time ... and then try to make a decent appearance at school the next day. Ah ya, those were the daze.
Charles Thanks for reminding me. Its a long time since I last played Sarah & Clifford. I'll remedy this tonight.
OP "The purity of Ella's voice countered by Armstrong's rasp is extra special" You nailed it OP. I rarely see so much content in such few words. Well said.
Hi Frank, Given your appreciation for Buddy Collette I'm certain you'd enjoy "Flute Fraternity ". Frank, I have a sneaking suspicion you really like Hampton Hawes 😊😊 Charles,
Nice to know that I'm rubbing elbow with classic jazz lovers. :-)
David ...
Tony Mottola was a wonderful guitarist. Robert and I listened to an album tonight that features Mottola on guitar. Its on the Command label titled Bongos, Bongos, Bongos. The instruments are in the room, especially the percussion. Really dynamic stuff.
Buddy Colette is one of my favorite musicians. What he did with the early Chico Hamilton quintet was amazing. I had the honor to hear him live in a small venue with his small group. It was in a small auditorium in one of our local churches. I got his autograph on one of his CD's too. That was a memorable night of great live music.
nyame ...
I've had that Ella/Armstrong album in my collection for over 30 years. Its one of the great classics. The purity of Ella's voice countered by Armstrong's rasp is extra special.
Hello nyame, Yes that is a fine example and I've had that one for years. Here's one for you, "Sarah Vaughan With Clifford Brown ". This is an all time classic. Charles,
On 5/20/16 Charles 1 dad wrote "Well recorded mono is just fine with me" Its also just fine with me too Charles1. A good example is this 1956 Verve recording "Ella and Louis" with the following personnel: Ella Fitzgerald - vocal Louis Armstrong - Trumpet & vocal Oscar Peterson -Piano Herb Ellis - guitar Buddy Rich - drums
I have not tried the Wattgate. The Synergistic Research Black has the sound of a Teslaplex combined with a Furutech GTX-R. I think you would find giving the Black outlet an audition most worthwhile.
I have just gotten home from a wonderfuly rewarding road trip. Yes it is worth driving 100 miles to hear Zuill Bailey play Bach cello sonatas when you are sitting in an acoustically fabulous room six feet from this gifted muscian.
I hope all readers of this thread who enjoy cello music will take the time to explore his website and his music.
I returned to Las Cruces and visited my Mother who was listening to jazz guitar player Tony Mottola " The music has never sounded better. Thank you for putting in the Black fuses and the Black outlet". She is not burdened with having to have a technical explanation of how a component works or how it looks. She is legally blind due to macular degeneration. She only wants to know if the music sounds better to her.
Hi Frank, Thanks for the Howard Rumsey recommendation, here's one for you. "FluteFraternity " features Herbie Mann and Buddy Collett. They play flute, alto and tenor saxophones as well as clarinet. They lead a fine west coast quintet. This is a 1957 stereo recording. It's very good. Charles,
+1 Wolf, and "passively elegantly written" Al, sure your not getting splinters there buddy?
Sending back?? That was part of the marketing strategy!!!
Even if half send them back, they still made a fortune, about 99% profit on each fuse. Then the half that got returned get sold again as new, as they don't advertise "B" stock for sale cheaper do they????
David Pritchard, do you have any experience with the old school watt gate 381 silver cryo? If so, how would you compare it to the new UEF black Receptacle?
Yeah…since I question this nonsense and the motivation behind the "over the top" promotion of SR’s technically unexplainable and likely useless products in a room full of believers, I do row against the tide. If some of the uber sensitive among us can’t simply answer technical queries with anything other than a "try it and send it back" reflexive dismissal or fanboy obfuscation, I don’t mind, and frankly expect nothing less. I only assume there’s a commercial connection to the promotors of this stuff because that’s the only thing that makes sense…and the defensive stance feigning insult is exactly what makes that seem more likely. If you read Almarg’s extremely well informed, elegantly written, and technically accurate posts you could learn something about fuse directionality or audio mythology, but these fall into the category of "pearls before swine" when laid at the feet of the oddly motivated faithful.
Hi Frank, Thank you for the recording recommendation, well recorded mono is just fine with me. Honestly when you hear live unamplified music as I did that night it sounds like hugh,warm and beautiful mono. There's very little sense of musician placement precision it is rather vague. The overwhelming effect (at least for me ) is the gorgeous blending of the instruments with resulting richness and harmonics. Dynamic energy and the musical pace and flow just grab you. My foot just spontaneously taps and my head nods in time with the music, its as though you can't control this reaction 😊
This type of listening experience always reminds me that the High End audio direction towards ultra detail just misses the boat IMO. My recent visit to Axpona in Chicago confirmed that in a number of rooms. To be fair there were rooms that got it right. Frank, I hope you , Robert and David have a wonderful time at the Newport show. I look forward to show impressions from you all. Charles,
Thanks for sharing your experience from the live concert with Roy Hargrove. Nothing like live, that's for sure. Especially sitting near the front where you can actually hear the instruments in their natural state. The flugal horn is such an amazing instrument ... great for jazz. So is the oboe, by the way. Check this album out:
It only comes in mono, but not to worry, its great mono and the sound is right there too. Its available on CD to if interested.
I think I mentioned before that my friend Robert and I attend concerts at a local church that consists of our city's professional symphony orchestra with solos played by very talented high school students. We sit in the front row right between the piano and the string section. Wow! If only massed strings could sound like that on my stereo system. Just beautiful.
In my opinion, and as a die hard chile lover, nothing ... nothing, can top the chiles from Hatch and Dixon.
I used to visit a friend in Sante Fe, and while there, I would eat myself through every chile place I could find. There used to be a place in downtown Sante Fe that was like an old Newberry's five and dime. They served a medium sized bag of Frito's cut length-wise and added a liberal portion of red chile gravy that they poured over the Frito's. My god ... what a taste experience. So very hot ... but so good you just can't stop eating it.
Then there was another place that had the best huevos rancheros in the world ... made with the green Hatch chiles. Zowie ... another hot one that had you sweating even on a snowy day. So good!
Now that I no longer travel to Sante Fe, I just order the ground chile from the link I left in my last post. I use it for a lot of cooking that calls for chile powder. With its unique taste, its one of my better "secret" ingredients.
I was wondering David ... have you ever attended a concert at the outdoor venue in Sante Fe? Chesky did a number of recordings from there that reside in my collection.
On tonight's listening session with the new SR Black fuse in the amp: While more transparent and showing all the promise of the other Black fuses in the system, there is that slight over brightness and hardness typical of an unbroken in SR fuse. What I heard tonight tells me that once its broken in ... new levels of musicality will be achieved ... and a lot more there, will be there. :-).
Been a while since I've checked in on this thread. I'm very curious about the black outlet. Davidpritchard has me very intrigued. Right now, I have the gtxD r feeding my power conditioner and subwoofer. The teslaplex se are retrofitted into my conditioner. My power amp and my CD player are connected directly to the wall, into a wattgate 381 Ag Cryo. I'd imagine the wattgate would get spanked by the new black outlet. I'm just so lazy to get back there. I wonder if it would be worth it though. Lol.
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