Oh yes, they have wonderful mid-range sound so long as there is adequate damping material behind the mid-range drivers; otherwise, they can sound bright. Signature IIIs can be run on 16 watt Sherwood 7100 receivers and have bass slam. Amazing speakers for the price.
Suggestions for Full Range Speakers up to 10K
Hi Everyone,
I am new here and I am working on a home theater/2 channel combined living room setup. My room is shared with a kitchen (island counter separates kitchen from living room). My original plan was to convert my 2 car garage into a home theater as I have a walk in cooler there with 5 beer taps through the wall. My wife is not fond of the garage idea, but I think I could convince her to do a full 2 channel setup out there and leave the HT setup in the living room where it is now. But in the meantime, I'll continue getting the living room dialed in.
My setup is as follows:
Marantz AV7704 pre
Marantz MM8807 amp - currently pushing my center channel, sides and rears. No height speakers at this time.
Peachtree Nova300 - currently doing double duty pushing floor standing fronts using HTB for the HT usage. I understand this is not the highest end, but you have to start somewhere, and it actually sounds pretty nice, even if the buttons are flimsy-ish.
Fronts are ML Motion 40's, center is ML Motion 30, sides and rears are older Aperion bookshelves that I plan to upgrade down the road, but they are sounding ok for these duties for the time being. I like the combination of the 40's with the Nova300, as I run though the DAC into this amp via USB-B in from a Mac with all my FLAC files on it. Sounds decent to my ears and is more than loud enough but I think the mid and low end needs a bit more presence though.
Room is 16' x 24' but opens into a kitchen and has a hallway leading to the back part of the house where bedrooms are. My main wall with my projector screen on it and all my components is about 12 feet wide as I have a desk in the corner and a kitchen counter on the opposite side. Ceilings are beamed, and I have multiple bay windows that are covered with shades. I would say the room is harder than softer with respect to sound reflection versus absorption.
My thinking is to add a full range speaker in the spaces between the center channel and Motion 40's, which is about 22" of space to work with, up to 46" tall (bottom of my screen) and 30" deep. I was originally considering a pair of subs in this space, but having them able to do double duty for music and HT seems more difficult to deal with as most subs have the controls on the back and I don't feel like reaching back there every time I want to go between HT and 2 channel work. And frankly a good set of full range speakers shouldn't need a sub for 2 channel work. I think I will do one big sub later for HT use only, but I'd rather focus on the 2 channel part first. Another option is to replace the Motion 40's with a fuller sounding speaker altogether, but I figured since I have the extra room from the MM8077, I can push the Motion 40's from that amp and move over to a fuller sounding full range for my 2 channel application.
I'd love to hear some expert opinions on what speakers would make sense for my application.
Thanks in advance.
I am new here and I am working on a home theater/2 channel combined living room setup. My room is shared with a kitchen (island counter separates kitchen from living room). My original plan was to convert my 2 car garage into a home theater as I have a walk in cooler there with 5 beer taps through the wall. My wife is not fond of the garage idea, but I think I could convince her to do a full 2 channel setup out there and leave the HT setup in the living room where it is now. But in the meantime, I'll continue getting the living room dialed in.
My setup is as follows:
Marantz AV7704 pre
Marantz MM8807 amp - currently pushing my center channel, sides and rears. No height speakers at this time.
Peachtree Nova300 - currently doing double duty pushing floor standing fronts using HTB for the HT usage. I understand this is not the highest end, but you have to start somewhere, and it actually sounds pretty nice, even if the buttons are flimsy-ish.
Fronts are ML Motion 40's, center is ML Motion 30, sides and rears are older Aperion bookshelves that I plan to upgrade down the road, but they are sounding ok for these duties for the time being. I like the combination of the 40's with the Nova300, as I run though the DAC into this amp via USB-B in from a Mac with all my FLAC files on it. Sounds decent to my ears and is more than loud enough but I think the mid and low end needs a bit more presence though.
Room is 16' x 24' but opens into a kitchen and has a hallway leading to the back part of the house where bedrooms are. My main wall with my projector screen on it and all my components is about 12 feet wide as I have a desk in the corner and a kitchen counter on the opposite side. Ceilings are beamed, and I have multiple bay windows that are covered with shades. I would say the room is harder than softer with respect to sound reflection versus absorption.
My thinking is to add a full range speaker in the spaces between the center channel and Motion 40's, which is about 22" of space to work with, up to 46" tall (bottom of my screen) and 30" deep. I was originally considering a pair of subs in this space, but having them able to do double duty for music and HT seems more difficult to deal with as most subs have the controls on the back and I don't feel like reaching back there every time I want to go between HT and 2 channel work. And frankly a good set of full range speakers shouldn't need a sub for 2 channel work. I think I will do one big sub later for HT use only, but I'd rather focus on the 2 channel part first. Another option is to replace the Motion 40's with a fuller sounding speaker altogether, but I figured since I have the extra room from the MM8077, I can push the Motion 40's from that amp and move over to a fuller sounding full range for my 2 channel application.
I'd love to hear some expert opinions on what speakers would make sense for my application.
Thanks in advance.
74 responses Add your response
How about buying a used pair of speakers? Legacy Focus or Signature IIIs are dirt cheap compared to new speakers. $2500 / $1800 pair usually used in good condition. Very efficient (except the Focus needs current-low impedance), tremendous bass, wide soundstage and needs to be at least 3' from walls. |
Yes I would agree with Dave and Troy of Audio Doctor NJ ”Our advice is for people is to actually go out and listen to these products for themselves” I would add that listening to as many products at different places or trials would really help. Some people will let one listen to their systems im their homes. Some audiophiles have clubs which encourage these “get togethers”. Audio shows are another place too. I tend to be put off by dealers and audio forum members who make blanket statements about a speaker brand. Brand ABC sounds better than Brand XYZ. Hogwash! Only you can decide what sounds good to you! After all, the $10,000 speaker will sit in your house for your enjoyment, not someone else. One must question the motivations by anyone who would be taking your $10,000. |
Thank you Ricred1, I think you are a very good guy and have also good intentions. One of the main reasons both I and Troy post is the dearth of just bad advice that is given on this site. From people endorsing out of business speaker companies, or impossible to demo products to products that just won't accomplish the OP stated goals. Or in the case of some people always recommending their speakers no matter if they would be something that the OP would like. We endorse many different products and tailor our response to products that the OP may like that would fit into their application which is why we sell so many different brands of speakers and we like them all for different reasons, and for different listeners. We sell the Paradigm Personas, the Legacy Focus and Aeris, the entire KEF line, ATC, Quad, Rethem, Cabasse, Elac, Dali, we are playing with the Bache speakers as well. Which is the "best" don't have one nor do we feel that the Persona is better than the Blade or the Aeris, they are three terrific loudspeakers that do thing differently,. Their are too many dealers and or listeners that expect everone to subscribe to their choices, such as the Magie guy always recommending Maggies etc. Our advice is for people to actually go and try to listen to these products for themselves. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I just talked to Audiotroy yesterday. I’ve actually talked to him several times. He’s very knowledgeable and a very good person to talk to. He has never suggested that I sell my speakers, but instead has suggested several very affordable small tweaks. I don’t agree with everything he posts, but I respect him for his willingness to provide advice. There are a lot of dealers that won’t talk to "potential customers" over the phone. The high-end is full of very arrogant dealers. Despite how he comes across, I think he is very down to earth and has good intentions. |
Mtrot bingo. The Se are just outstanding, we have yet to find any speaker for the money that offers all of its attributes Roberjermin, i sold Snell A3 at SBS in NY they are not competitive to todays better loudspeakers which are much more transparent, and image much more precisely your speakers have a natural midrange and are quite musical. Your arguement about how little you paid is immaterial when your old speaker breaks and you cant get replacement parts. Mr Shutts agreed an excellent post. We sell the entire Kef Ref line and they are superb you demonstrated that you have to work to accheive the sound you are after and too many people here are too quick to jump on change the new component bandwagon vs ameleorate what is not working. Audio is a journey sometimes when you upgrade you have to change a bit more then you originally had thought. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I am adding my recent speaker experience to this thread in the hope that it will be useful for other loudspeaker buyers. My wife and I started listening to loudspeakers at local hi-fi shops last January, just to see if we could hear any significant improvement over the KEF 104.2 speakers I have had since 1992. There were indeed some real improvements, although that may in part have been due to the 104.2 price having been $2200, and my new speaker budget being $10,000. After hearing a bunch of speakers in that price range, our strong preference was for the Paradigm Persona 3F. They sound great! I had not considered KEF, because I had been living with KEF for so long. After finding the KEF Reference 3 in a shop where we had gone to hear other speakers, we both fell in love with their sound. It was akin to the KEF 104.2 sound, but quite a LOT better! I am not writing to suggest the KEF Reference 3 for the starter of this thread. I realize that they are an inch too tall, and $4,000 over his $10,000 price range. Besides, speaker preferences are highly subjective. I am writing to warn others about what I learned after I set up the new Reference 3 in my listening room. On their own, the Reference 3 speakers have too much bass output for my room. The room is 16'x16' with an 8 foot ceiling. The speakers are 17 inches from the front wall, and 17 inches from the side wall, just as KEF recommends. Still, the bass output was too much by a lot! The happy part of my story is that I use an Anthem processor, which has ARC room correction. ARC set the subwoofer crossover to 160hz. Although the sound was good, this seems incredibly high for such large full range speakers. I sent my ARC curves to a technician at Anthem, and he told me that the high crossover frequency was due to the bass output from the front speakers being much too high for ARC to flatten. the ARC algorithm got better results by using the subwoofer up to 160hz. The next chapter of the story is that yesterday, a set of Tri-Traps arrived from GIK Acoustics. They are standing from floor to ceiling in the front corners of the listening room. I have listened to the new sound, and it is improved by a lot. The sound from the speakers, with no ARC and no subwoofer, is great. The bass is a little exaggerated on some of my bass heavy test tracks, but most music is great. Like the 104.2 speakers, the deepest bass (probably under 35 Hz) from the Reference 3 speakers is not as clean as from my 12-inch subwoofer. Very little of my music collections have bass energy this low. Nevertheless, I knew which tracks to test with. Soon I will recalibrate with ARC. I wrote this to give others a heads up about matching loudspeakers to rooms. I realize that many in this group know even more about such things than me, but heads up to any who do not think about it. I am sure that aggravating the loud bass is the fact that my 104.2 speakers had a port in the front, while the Reference 3 speakers have 2 ports on the back. Some on this thread already warned about port locations. When I bought smaller and less expensive loudspeakers, I was usually given the opportunity to borrow speakers to hear them in my room. Others (like the 104.2) came with a 30-day return policy. I do not know if any large high-end speakers are sold this way. I asked, and the KEF speakers definitely did not have any "try before you buy" option. These speakers are built to order in England. Delivery took almost a month. All-in-all I am really excited and happy with the terrific sound from this system! My wife likes it too. She is an angel for letting me put this big 2.1 channel system with room treatments in HER bedroom! I am a lucky guy. :) Sorry if this post is a bit too long, but if I were not me, I would enjoy reading it. Regards, |
Snell has been out of business for years. As per audio jewlery if you are not happy with a products looks find something that looks and sounds good, to the two Vandy fanboys, your worldview is awefully narrow there are quite a number of great speakers that sound as good or perhaps better. I would be more than happy to compare a set of legacy Focus Se at $7k to any $10k and above speakers. The new Quad Z4 at $5k are amazing sounding with a purity and musicallity that is out of this world for the price. The Legacys havc fantastic bass no sub required and they are 91db effcient. The Quads go somewhat low but are not super low speakers so u might need a sub. We sold Usher for years the Legacys and Quads are better. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
In my experience - Ariel sounds very close to Totem acoustics. Both great speakers. I have the Forest and a bookshelf speaker and never complained. As you mention rocking out I would go the Revel route as I have those also. The F208 is incredibly balanced, articulate and powerful. The bass can vibrate my couch seats. Other speakers I tried in Home: Ariel, Golden Ear and PSB (also very good). There are many fine choices but making the cost and long term investment it really pays to listen for your personal preference. I’m sure Paradigm would work nicely as well. Always wanted to demo Kef but haven’t had the chance yet. Love the blades look. |
While I can't help you on you're impression of this speaker being "mildly ugly," I think the Vandersteen Quattro Wood Ct would be the "near perfect" choice so long as it meets most of your requirements. The speakers neutral character along with all the controls of dialing in the bass for your room makes them a good choice for your application. IMO. Cheers, Tim |
The Usher Mini Dancer Two DMD speakers are quite good at $5,000 a pair! http://prairieaudiomancave.com/blog/the-man-cave-and-perhaps-the-site-is-getting-a-makeover |
That’s a 54" tall speaker, which won’t work in my setup. I am very curious about the Magico A3. That speaker would fit well in my current alignment. Numbers look great on it, other than the cost (top of my budget, and since it is new, I will not find any for sale used any time soon). I plan on setting up an audition for that in the near future. I have some travel coming up as well, so I’m planning on hitting up some dealers while I’m away to do some listening. I’m surprised the Salk Soundscapes do not get mentioned at all. Looks like a solid lineup. There's a nice looking pair on here for 6K in Dallas, which means I could theoretically go pick them up. |
I agree with the Magico A3 as something you definitely want to listen too. I’m going back in a couple weeks to listen again. Also I know height is an issue but the Legacy Signature is a great sounding speaker but at 47” tall. It’s also not rear ported so much easier to place as well. Great speaker for 7K |
Wow guys, I’m surprised you are skipping over one of the most important posts on this thread! "Whatever speaker you ultimately decide, make sure you consider the (port) design especially if you can’t push them far into the room. Almost all the speakers mentioned so far need a lot of space both behind and around them to sound good." kalali and +1 don’t join the dark side. So many speakers today are little more than eye candy and only able to play well with a limited number of setups and conditions. |
There's a nice pair of Joseph Audio RM33LEs for sale on eBay for $5500 that meet your size requirements and go down to 28Hz. This model uses the same tweeter from their flagship Pearl speakers. There's also a pair of Silverline Bolero Supremes for sale here at $7500. Either of these speakers would give you superb sound. Best of luck. |
irrenarzt, I was the one who suggested you give Revel a listen. I have Performa 208 (non-upgraded) because upgraded ones (228) came out just as I acquired mine. Well, to tell you the truth, it saved me $5000 that I would have spent on something just because it came in different colors and would match the piano. Sound would be better, too, but it would be the color that I would have bought it for. I just wanted to say that you are not alone in giving looks a thought. Happy hunting for your speakers. Let us know what you decide and, hmmmm, why on Earth would you try to judge $10000 speakers based on youtube video? |
I agree. I’m not in this for the fashion side, but it is playing a secondary role in terms of considerations. It certainly helps to have something you can live with in terms of looks. I'm pretty sure my wife will not allow me to bring home a set of something really ugly, even if they sounded just exactly perfect. Those Snells sound tight for a shitty youtube video. I’ll check those out. |
https://youtu.be/TXFXBCHnUbg this is a phone recording only, but def dont rule out snell xa90ps or the xa reference, this was recorded with a galaxy s8 |
Each one of us is unique in what we want in sound. When it comes to speakers, you really have to listen to hear what you like. The “look” or aesthetics is your choice.....What we believe a high fidelity system is, whether it is part of an audio/video home theatre experience or so involved as built up from a well designed sound room and with an unlimited budget (think MBL) is really whatever we want it to be. |
