Suggestion on XLR Cables

In defence of the furutech's, they sound great in my other system, which is designed to be connected via single ended. Further enforcing the importance of system matching a particular piece of equipment. Great in one system, lousy in another, and vice versa. 

In my arc system, balanced xlr cables wins hands down over single-ended rca's. I'm embarrassed to say the balanced cables are my own cheap diy canare star quad vs expensive top of the line furutech rca's. As some have said before, use the connection (balanced or single ended) that your system was designed and built for. After that, experiment with different conductors, and connectors of the cables. If your system is good enough (and your ears) you should be able to hear the differences. Just my humble opinion, of course... 

Got a full set of the Gotham GAC-4 Pro as suggested by Muse, the are excellent.  Beautifully terminated and very "quiet" there must be something to that double Rousen Shielding.

Highly recommended

Good Listening

Peter 

balanced rejects certain types of noise - you definitely want balanced 

or... shoot digital over wireless to the a decoder at the amps...

Will warn this thread up again, if possible. I have a fully balanced system, up to the interconnects between the pre and amp. Use Zu Mission single ended to the amps. But it looks like I’m about to get the bug, balanced amps. Problem is the run to the amps is 25-30’. So I’m shopping XLR’s. At that length I need to get it right the first time. Also have to pull them through conduit in the wall with an elbow. Can go into the corner and dismantle the elbow rather than risk damage to the wire. 
You posters are head snd shoulders above me in knowledge about cables, Set up things balanced because a knowledgeable setup guy strongly suggested such. 

Suggest :


JPSLABS.COM

see the lending library at:    THECABLECOMPANY.COM

sometimes when you call these places they will actually guide you with good advice.

Another vote for Cerious GE.  Their XLRs edged out another brand that was priced much higher.

FWIW I started with Mogami Gold XLRs.  They are good, but I was able to do better.  Again, my system, room, & ears.

@muses
Will check them out and report back when I get them installed 

Good Listening


Peter

JPSLABS.com  their cables are excellent.

Mogami Golds gave me a richer more realistic sound.   They did make a difference.  Inexpensive upgrade. 

Also, the Gothams played slightly louder.

I figure enough "burn-in" has taken place to compare the Gotham PUR/Amphenol XLRs (I paid $35 on the Bay) to the Zu Missions (List $215 I think; but I paid $46.50).

I do believe I can tell a difference; that it's not bias or unbelievably short audio memory. The Gothams have been warmer since the beginning; but now the Zus are presenting a more profound bass and they are more dimensional and transparent. I prefer them to the Gothams, because I am a detail junkie; but I can't say they are clearly "better", or would be everyone's choice. In fact on a few tracks I (mellow acoustic guitar, Cello) I prefer them. I would have been quite happy with the Gothams on all fronts if I was faced with paying full list. Fortunately, I got a better deal.

the high end cables (RCA or XLR)  warrant such premium prices because they are made out of confirmation bias

@gdhal  and @muses,
I miswrote in my previous post. My Belden/Neutric cables are actually Gotham PUR/Amphenol. I plan on doing a closer comparison with the Zus in the near future. Zu always recommends 250 to 400 hours to burn in the dielectric on new cables. I figure I'll give them about 60 hours before the face-off.

First to start, if you dont find your higher end cables, I suggest that you dont waste money and agree with many comments here about Canare Star Quad, and Benchmark media builds them very nicely for a great price.

The all round second best cable i have tried is actually middle priced and it's the Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme XLR. It has it nearly all, resolution is just astounding, just lacks some dynamics and a little bass. You can get them new in your budget.

The best high end cable I have tried and tried and tried against dozens including cables costing HUGE amounts of money and that surpass them all and that I now use in all my systems, is to me without a doubt, the TelluriumQ Silver Diamond. I'm not sure you can find these second hand, but really worth a search. 

@bradluke0

Had a absolute top flight Ayon Preamplifier come through here a few years ago - it had balanced connectors on the back - but - a quick look inside - pin 3 had no termination :-) US standard has pin 3 as the inverted signal.

Balanced equipment either for home or professional use have several advantages and if executed properly will outperform a single ended system. Typically less noise, better transients and dynamics all things we strive for in music reproduction. If the system is balanced through out from cartridge or DAC (and here I mean the actual IC (BB1704K) or (ESS9018) for examples) to speaker the benefits of Fully Balanced design approach easily shine through.

Good Listening

Peter

There are a pair of Audioquest Diamond XLRs on auction on Ebay now. I prefer any of Synergistic Research top cables the Apex, CTS. With the time of year now is the buying and selling time. Most any of the better known cable companies that have more time in the field of cables have also spent more R&D time, and will get you the results you are looking for.

I agree with marcyun that so far I've heard very little difference in XLR Cables unlike RCA's where there are significant differences. As mentioned for little money the Canare are good. For a bit more the Solid Silver or Silver Litz XLR's from Sunny Audio Shop on E-Bay allow a bit more micro, macro dynamics through.

...What are those mid to high end cables (RCA or XLR) made out of to warrant such premium prices (few hundred dollars per cable)?...

I think snake oil is a key ingredient.

Ah I see you already have Dueland XLRs. Anything in particular you’re looking for that they’re not giving you? On the higher end side, Audience Au24 SX is fantastic and could be a great match for your system, but likely out of your price range even used.

In my very limited experience with short runs and fully balanced gear (Ayre), I have found balanced ICs to be less variable in sound quality than single ended, which intuitively and technically makes sense. Eg many people report Mogami Gold to get them most of what they need sound wise. I would start there before spending a ton of money, then audition a few things to see if it's worthwhile.

My personal go-to for both RCA and XLR is DH Labs Air Matrix, which runs in the $300-400 price range brand new. It's quite neutral and detailed and won't add a ton of its own color. In XLR I have found it to be very close to ICs costing 5x as much.

If you need something on the slightly sweeter side of neutral, Audience also makes very nice stuff. And of course there is Cardas but I have found their stuff to be very system dependent.

Curious,
I am a long time reader, first time poster.  What are those mid to high end cables (RCA or XLR) made out of to warrant such premium prices (few hundred dollars per cable)?
I make my own cables using Mogami pure copper bulk cables and Neutrix gold connectors.  They, in my opinion, sound great and cost around about $20 per cable.

...I will say that I was not blown away when I made the switch.

@2channel8

I would say that is normal and should be expected. However, were you able to detect *any* difference at all?

I thought that XLR cables, since they were originally designed for runs much, much longer than usually found in home stereo systems, were the least quality dependent of all the ICs.

That being said, I recently upgraded from Belden/Neutric generics to Zu Missions because I could get them for a fraction of the original list. I haven't done a side-by-side yet. The Zu's take 400 hrs to break in. ;^)
I will say that I was not blown away when I made the switch.

The High Fidelity Cables Reveal XLR is worth a trial! It worked so well that it eliminated my Absolute Sound class A rated preamp. The Reveal XLR cable goes from my DS DAC to PS Audio M700 mono blocks. 

Shadorne & pbnaudio +1 on Canare Star Quad L-4E6S,  unbeatable for the $

As you pointed out Blue Jeans is one source, also Cable Solutions

https://cs1.net/products/canare/L-4E6S_balanced_audio.htm

My recommendation in your budget would be HiDiamond 2 XLR’s. Very open and musical sounding, very good bass. Punches well above it’s weight, besting some cables at twice the price. Well constructed and reliable.

High Fidelity Reveal XLR
magnetic have beat out all I have tried. They are $1k. Their RCA IC’s for $700 are just as good. 

So I bought a pair of KLEE Acoustics TruBalance Interconnect XLRs that arrived today to use with my NAT Audio Magnetic Preamp. I got that preamp about a month ago to replace a PS Audio BHK. I like the NAT better but thought I could use a cable upgrade. I’m running Duelund wire XLRs from my PS Audio DSD to the NAT and Audioquest Columbia XLRs from the NAT to my PS Audio BHK amp. Not that it matters for my question but my speakers are Wilson Duettes.

Anyway, I swapped the Duelunds for the KLEE cables and switched on my system. Hmmm. More like hummmmm and volume ~6db lower than with the Duelunds. Put the Duelunds back in, everything’s back to normal. I called the dealer who was really cool about it. Suggested I put the Duelunds back and swap the Klee for the Audioquest(running NAT to Amp). I was feeling lazy but plugged the Klees into OUT2 of the NAT, disconnected the Audioquest from the amp and plugged in the Klee there. Still low volume issue and hum. Put back the Audioquest (NAT to amp). Low volume still exists, same for hum. Weird I think. Until I remember Klee cables are still plugged into OUT2 of the NAT (though not plugged into anything on other end). Unplug the Klees from OUT2 of the NAT. Volume back to normal, hum gone. Plug the Klees back into OUT2 (unconnected at amp end). Hum and lower volume issue return.

Either a) something is seriously wrong with the KLEE cables (left & right) which I doubt (as does dealer) or something about the KLEE really upsets the NAT. Almost like the NAT is shorting out though obviously not fully. Dealer has been a prince and offered to take the KLEES back but I’m curious if anyone that has a lot more knowledge in this area than I do has any idea what’s going on.

Thanks in advance.

I don't know what they did . Its like a $7 or $8k preamp so there shouldn't be anything cheap in there . Its a good thing my F6 amp only has single ended inputs otherwise I probably would have used balanced there also , it would have sounded doubly wrong . The only reason I removed the balanced cables and tried single ended as it had a ton of gain and I could only use about 1/4 of the volume knob , now I can use over half . Glad I tried them as it sounds mo better .  

Yup - that can happen 

I wonder if Cary used some cheap op-amps that caused that?

Just to follow up ....I spoke with Ayon  as I wanted to know about the "amp" switch on the back of my CD player . I mentioned my experience switching between balanced and single ended between my Cary and the Ayon player . He said " balanced wont sound as good , that Cary has  crappy balanced circuitry ". So I looked up the Stereophile review ....sure enough , the balanced tests were bad but great in single ended . You never know , lol .

Goertz Sapphire Silver is the best (Silver conductor)
Even new is way below 1k
You can buy new here:
https://www.thecableco.com/sapphire-silver-xlr.html

Some electronics made for home/audiophile use are recommended by their designer/manufacture to be used in balanced mode. There are other reasons for balanced operation than merely to drive long runs of interconnects. Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere is quite adamant on the subject. 

It depends on the equipment and length, and you always should compare if you can.

Just to be clear.... Home systems with normal runs don't need balanced. Jeesh...lol

Home users don't need balanced. Didn't know I was on a pro site.

"nobody "needs balanced" connections" which is why they are NEVER used by professionals!

Cables do have their own sound and can be used to fine tune systems. I was floored when I replaced the balanced Tara for a single ended Tara ...night and day . This is between an ayon 2s player and a Carry slp-05 preamp , so you are talking excellent pieces here . BTW.... nobody "needs balanced" connections . It was my buddy that told me to go back to single ended , he was right.

ghosthouse, I generally categorize audiophiles as belonging to two schools of thought - school of realists and school of dreamers or romantics. I mostly belong to the former with elements of the latter.
Also, I view speakers as both devices and even more as instruments.
Two equally good guitars may sound very different. When choosing speakers I choose the instrument first, device second, but both are important. The question of turntable and cartridge is a complicated one, but I would say that I choose more a device than instrument here.

"I treat cables as components...."

@inna - Agree 100% with that part of your statement; however, I see each link in the chain as an opportunity for "sound manipulation" with the ultimate goal being, as you say, "more of it", i.e., more music!

ghosthouse, I treat cables as components, no less no more, and I have found that the higher you go the more performance you extract from the same set-up without changing anything else. But I do not try to adjust the sound, only bring out more of it. I believe, that sound manipulation should be done at the level of speakers and maybe cartridge and table. The rest is 'wire with gain'. Our active components are really often better than they seem. No, my Redgum integrated will not sound as good as Gryphon with any cabling, there is always a limit, of course, but signal transmission importance is obvious to me.

@bradluke0

Just yesterday I had a very similar experience. Won’t bore anyone with the reason for doing it but changed out AQ Columbia XLRs between DAC and Preamp for Cardas Parsec SE. Was very surprised by the improvement heard. Both pieces are fully balanced and from the same mftr. Does the improvement reflect a difference in wire quality or (in this instance) an advantage of single ended vs balanced? I’ll have to try a Parsec XLR IC to decide.

@inna
I pretty much agree with bradluke though differences in wire are more complex than "more highs" vs "more warm". As system performance has improved judged by the intelligibility of vocals, separation of multi-tracked voices and instruments, increased stage depth and clarity of micro details (a partial list), I’ve found the effect of wire choices on the overall sound of the system to be more evident. Just like equipment components can be unhappily or happily combined resulting in that magical "synergy" from the most fortuitous combinations, it makes sense to choose wire that enhances the sound however you describe the sonic attribute it brings.

By the way, Mogami Gold cables are terminated with Neutrik XLR's.

I've seen some Synergistic CTS (used) at about $1000.  Cable's got great reviews and I like their power conditioner.  I'm not high on another AC connection (for the active piece of the cable).  Audience SE (1m) available around $1000, SX about $1250.

I've heard some of these "giant killer" cables.  I'm not saying they don't punch above their weight because a # of them do but they are bettered by some others I mentioned.  Now are those worth the price differential, that's up to each person to decide.  BTW, I've got Duelund's in the system now. Don't know what the fuss is all about. None of their wire (made into cables) sounded good in my system. Not as XLRs, not for speaker cable. Maybe it's a synergy thing.  Always too bright for my ears.

The Canare I recommended above is a very high quality cable and if bought from BlueJeans Cable comes expectedly terminated. A balanced system is not nearly as finicky with cable choices as a non balanced one. IMO the Canare has no "tonal" trait, its neutral.

I do not buy into the "Cable Craze", I however believe in solidly engineered and manufactured cables and probably much more important connectors and terminations.

For a economy RCA cable I recommend and use, albeit I do not have much unbalanced equipment, the BlueJeans LC1

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

For an example I have a client in Los Angeles area with a very nice high end system whom had terrible a hum situation, he used high $ cables from a well known manufacture. Installation of the LC1 through out in his system completely cured this with much improved sound as a result.

Good Listening

Peter

You need balanced cables, not tone controls. So no "more highs or mids or lows". If you think that you need this, your equipment or component synergy is not good.

I recently changed my CD player / preamp cables from balanced to single ended and the improvement was stunning . That said , I would contact The Cable Company and try different ones to see what you like . You can buy them at a discount as they are used . If you need more highs , Nordost or Tara . More warm , Cardas or Gabriel Gold . Good luck .

ghosthouse, no, they can ship to the US from Berlin. I talked to them a few times. But this is not the best option, I guess. The best option is to deal with the Canadian distributor. He doesn't have everything in stock but he would order what he doesn't have from them quickly enough. I first got Tchernov Classic MK II RCAs a few weeks ago and liked it so much that I just ordered the Reference MK II. Both Tchernov people and Jim from Canada assured me that the Reference MK II would be on a totally different level. We'll see. If it is not I can return it, no problem.